Daken vs Grendel

Hunter knows everything about Daken
While Daken has no idea who he is
Random encounter

I think Huter takes it but need your opinion
P.S. I can post some scans if you guys want to.

Hmmm... not that impressed. I think he got over hyped for me. 

Daken kills him.

He has full knowledge but no prep, in that case he has to get beyond Daken's pheromones and his burst ability, not to mention the electric gauntlet gauntlet. I'm not saying Daken wins, I'm just saying Grendel has to get beyond those to make a solid victory.

This might be my generally dislike of Daken talking, but I really think Grendel can take this.

"

Daken kills him.

 

 

"

" @Ramtha07: How he is smarter stronger and not to menton that he was able to beat Argent to the point where he couldn't even move and i should mark that Argent is Shaman possessed by spirit of death wich made him immortal "

Mind you, I must admit I really don't like Daken all that much meself ... I much prefer the original. However, god_spawn hit the nail on the head.

No prep. Doesn't matter how much smarter Grendel is. His brains ain't going to serve him nearly as much as skill when trading mitts with Daken.

Killer instinct = Daken;

Martial skill = debatable, but I'd lean toward Daken;

Durability = Daken;

Speed = Daken (before objecting, note that he has feats showing he can move faster than the eye can follow - accredited more so to his exceptional training more than anything else) 

Just think Daken along with his pheremones is too much for Grendel...

" @BattleHeiz said:

" @Ramtha07: How he is smarter stronger and not to menton that he was able to beat Argent to the point where he couldn't even move and i should mark that Argent is Shaman possessed by spirit of death wich made him immortal "

Mind you, I must admit I really don't like Daken all that much meself ... I much prefer the original. However, god_spawn hit the nail on the head.

No prep. Doesn't matter how much smarter Grendel is. His brains ain't going to serve him nearly as much as skill when trading mitts with Daken.

Killer instinct = Daken;

Martial skill = debatable, but I'd lean toward Daken;

Durability = Daken;

Speed = Daken (before objecting, note that he has feats showing he can move faster than the eye can follow - accredited more so to his exceptional training more than anything else) 

Just think Daken along with his pheremones is too much for Grendel...

"

Killer instinct = Grendel not to mention his keen senses that allowed him to sense presence of devil;

Martial skill = Hunter excelled at everything he ever tried so it's not really debateble;

Durability = Daken;

Speed = Grendel tagged  werewolf and beated him on ocassions not to mention that he could kill his victims without them even noticing

Nice scans @BattleHeiz Did a Grendel match up bout a wk ago only got one reply Lol :-) May have to give it a bump..
Going back to this encounter i do believe Daken has the edge due to his alround mutant powers.But it would be one hell a fight imo..

@BattleHeiz:
Fighting skills are very debatable. Daken is a level 7. Here is how Marvel's grid rankings work when rating fighting abilities;

FIGHTING ABILITY

Proficiency (skill) in combat
1 = Poor
2 = Normal
3 = Some training
4 = Experienced fighter
5 = Master of a single form of combat
6 = Master of several forms of combat
7 = Master of virtually all conventional forms of combat

Master of virtually all conventional forms of combat. So we all had better pray Grendel does indeed excel. Because he's going up against a killing machine with Master in virtually all forms. Like I said, debatable (and that's being generous).

Daken is considered an enhanced human strength wise as well. How strong is Grendel? Who cares if he was able to fight Batman without prep. Many have and many have won. Did Batman have prep against Grendel in that match-up? Daken's beaten his pappy Wolverine too... I put that feat above defeating Batman anyday. Especially considering most on the Vine agree Wolverine would destroy Batman in a straight up fight.

We haven't even gotten to the pheremone portion of his powerset yet either...

Daken has a solid majority here.

"

@BattleHeiz:
Fighting skills are very debatable. Daken is a level 7. Here is how Marvel's grid rankings work when rating fighting abilities;

 

FIGHTING ABILITY

Proficiency (skill) in combat
1 = Poor
2 = Normal
3 = Some training
4 = Experienced fighter
5 = Master of a single form of combat
6 = Master of several forms of combat
7 = Master of virtually all conventional forms of combat

Master of virtually all conventional forms of combat. So we all had better pray Grendel does indeed excel. Because he's going up against a killing machine with Master in virtually all forms. Like I said, debatable (and that's being generous).

Daken is considered an enhanced human strength wise as well. How strong is Grendel? Who cares if he was able to fight Batman without prep. Many have and many have won. Did Batman have prep against Grendel in that match-up? Daken's beaten his pappy Wolverine too... I put that feat above defeating Batman anyday. Especially considering most on the Vine agree Wolverine would destroy Batman in a straight up fight.

We haven't even gotten to the pheremone portion of his powerset yet either...

Daken has a solid majority here.

"

"

                    @Ramtha07 said:

"

                   

@BattleHeiz:
Fighting skills are very debatable. Daken is a level 7. Here is how Marvel's grid rankings work when rating fighting abilities;

 

FIGHTING ABILITY

Proficiency (skill) in combat
1 = Poor
2 = Normal
3 = Some  training
4 = Experienced fighter
5 = Master of a single form of combat
6 = Master of several forms of combat
7 = Master of virtually all  conventional forms of combat

Master of virtually all conventional forms of combat. So we all had better pray Grendel does indeed excel. Because he's going up against a killing machine with Master in virtually all forms. Like I said, debatable (and that's being generous).

Daken is considered an enhanced human strength wise as well. How strong is Grendel? Who cares if he was able to fight Batman without prep. Many have and many have won. Did Batman have prep against Grendel in that match-up? Daken's beaten his pappy Wolverine too... I put that feat above defeating Batman anyday. Especially considering most on the Vine agree Wolverine would destroy Batman in a straight up fight.

We haven't even gotten to the pheremone portion of his powerset yet either...

Daken has a solid majority here.

                   

                "

Batman beats crap out wolvie the only problem is HFAnd no daken is only 6Also Grendel exceed human limits and has marksmanship of BullseyeI can show you scans if you want toAlso knowing about his pheromones Grendel will strike him hard and fastGrendel zaps him and then cuts his head off"The End".

                   

                "

First and foremost, here's the link to Marvel's official stat page on Daken;

http://marvel.com/characters/bio/1011001/daken

Go there, check it out, know what you're talking about, then come back....

M'kay? Level 7, Still want to argue against that one?

And Batman 'beating the crap' out of Wolverine is strictly your biased opinion. Wolverine has had over 100 years fighting experience and training in all martial disciplines (and is subsequently also rated a healthy 7 by Marvel). People do better to compare Batman more to, say, Captain America. And Captain America is rated a 6 by Marvel. Oh and, so is Bullseye. There are pages and pages one could post here highlighting Wolverine's fighting ability (as there is for Batman). So the topic is, like I said, very debatable. If Batman is better at hand to hand than Wolverine, it would only be marginally so. Very marginally. I say Wolverine is far more likely the better fighter (Batman's major power is being superhumanly 'clever', and not necessarily his fighting ability or stats or gadgets or whatnot anyway...)

Here, let me try a scenario your way, using your logic; Daken's pheremones 'zap' him and then he cuts Grendel's head off. The end.

Wow, somehow I feel I'm oversimplifying. But if it works for you...

Worthy of note. Daken is enhanced human in every way. And despite Asgardians being able to lift from 25-30 tons each, and despite their superhuman durability, Daken treated them like canon fodder in Seige;

If he can run into  a score of Asgardian warriors, each with the ability to toss cars around and crumple concrete,  and each with extensive hand to hand trianing, then I really don't think Grendel will come out of this one intact... really don't.

" @BattleHeiz said:

"

                    @Ramtha07 said:

"

                   

@BattleHeiz:
Fighting skills are very debatable. Daken is a level 7. Here is how Marvel's grid rankings work when rating fighting abilities;

 

FIGHTING ABILITY

Proficiency (skill) in combat
1 = Poor
2 = Normal
3 = Some  training
4 = Experienced fighter
5 = Master of a single form of combat
6 = Master of several forms of combat
7 = Master of virtually all  conventional forms of combat

Master of virtually all conventional forms of combat. So we all had better pray Grendel does indeed excel. Because he's going up against a killing machine with Master in virtually all forms. Like I said, debatable (and that's being generous).

Daken is considered an enhanced human strength wise as well. How strong is Grendel? Who cares if he was able to fight Batman without prep. Many have and many have won. Did Batman have prep against Grendel in that match-up? Daken's beaten his pappy Wolverine too... I put that feat above defeating Batman anyday. Especially considering most on the Vine agree Wolverine would destroy Batman in a straight up fight.

We haven't even gotten to the pheremone portion of his powerset yet either...

Daken has a solid majority here.

                   

                "

Batman beats crap out wolvie the only problem is HFAnd no daken is only 6Also Grendel exceed human limits and has marksmanship of BullseyeI can show you scans if you want toAlso knowing about his pheromones Grendel will strike him hard and fastGrendel zaps him and then cuts his head off"The End".

                   

                "

First and foremost, here's the link to Marvel's official stat page on Daken;

http://marvel.com/characters/bio/1011001/daken

Go there, check it out, know what you're talking about, then come back....

M'kay? Level 7, Still want to argue against that one?

And Batman 'beating the crap' out of Wolverine is strictly your biased opinion. Wolverine has had over 100 years fighting experience and training in all martial disciplines (and is subsequently also rated a healthy 7 by Marvel). People do better to compare Batman more to, say, Captain America. And Captain America is rated a 6 by Marvel. Oh and, so is Bullseye. There are pages and pages one could post here highlighting Wolverine's fighting ability (as there is for Batman). So the topic is, like I said, very debatable. If Batman is better at hand to hand than Wolverine, it would only be marginally so. Very marginally. I say Wolverine is far more likely the better fighter (Batman's major power is being superhumanly 'clever', and not necessarily his fighting ability or stats or gadgets or whatnot anyway...)

Here, let me try a scenario your way, using your logic; Daken's pheremones 'zap' him and then he cuts Grendel's head off. The end.

Wow, somehow I feel I'm oversimplifying. But if it works for you...

"

@BattleHeiz:

There are a few ways to validate whether or not character A can/should/would beat character B. Let me enumerate some;

1) Powersets: The grid system is Marvel's fast and easy way of displaying powersets and their extents. These, coupled with the explanations proferred in the bios, outline what the character can and cannot do in Marvel canon. While you may say that this 'system' sucks, it doesn't change the fact that Marvel has both Daken and Wolverine as Masters of all conventional forms of combat. This is a significant 'superpower'. And this goes a long way in saying just how good both of them really are.

2) Feats: feats are used to back the credibility of Marvel's suppositions in their bios. So what if Sentry has the power of a thousand suns. We've never seen him portray said power, there are no clear feats, and therefore most look at that with a grain of salt and say 'meh'. No proof. However, we can post feats of Wolverine (and to a growing extent Daken as well - he's still relatively new and we need to see more showings) destroying opponents with pressure points. Dodging bullets point blank. Dodging automatic gun fire (not taking one single bullet). Slicing faster than the eye can see, tagging speedsters, dismantling multiple (skilled) opponents, displaying a perfect combination of the ultimate athlete entwined with the mental patterns of a master strategist (according to Prof. X's readings), out skilling folks like Shang Chi in pure hand to hand ... the list goes on really. His martial skill is substantial, and this alone would make him a match for Batman. However this, coupled with his enhanced mutant physiology (can lift upward to 2 tons and has fought 17 hours against a superior opponent without stopping), unbreakable skeleton (Batman would probably break his hand on his jaw) and yes, a healing factor that sees him tanking blows from the likes of WWHulk, Thing, Wonderman, Namor (and many more) make Wolverine far out of Batman's league when looked at rationally ... problem is, Wolverine jobs a lot so people tend to downplay him based on these lower showings - based on his powerset and higher end feats, he's a machine;

3) Need to differentiate the PIS, CIS and jobber auras and look for consistent showings.

These three together have me feeling Daken outclasses Grendel. And Wolverine certainly proves far too much for Bruce (without prep). Though I agree, take away the healing factor and the fight looks more interesting.

And I must admit, the Seige story line with Daken, for me, borders on PIS all round. I feel the Asgardian army would have realistically destroyed the Dark Avengers. Each simple soldier has the durability and strength (just about) of a Luke Cage and the fighting ability of a high end street leveller. Daken should have been overwhelmed in my opinion.

Hunter Rose with Prep, like you said...without, I think Draken may surprise him by taking what would seem to be a deadly blow to give one of his own...

I see Daken winning Every time.... BTW, can someone explain to me why Daken is such a HATED character?

daken