#1 Edited by CortSether (1821 posts) - - Show Bio

Some weird goings on in the universe has made the entire universe warped, merging dimensions and causing chaos. The crimson cosmos finds itself merged with the chaos dimension that Shuma-Gorath resides in. Cyttorak doesn't like this presence in his cosmos, and Shuma-Gorath views Cyttorak as yet another entity to feed off of. A battle for supremacy ensues between the two.  Because of the merging of home dimensions, both have their full power at their disposal. It's all out, full-power, no holds barred.
 
Who wins?
 
Let's use as much comic book "logic" as possible.
 

 

 

 


 


#2 Posted by CortSether (1821 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#3 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

In Cyttorak's realm - Cyttorak
In SG's realm - SG
In other realm/Earth -hard battle, but I can give SG 51% for the win.

#4 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
hmmm... this is a good one
#5 Posted by SamanyatheThirdWorldSomali (39 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a completely one-sided matchup. Cyttorak takes this. Heck, even his avatar Juggernaut defeats Gorath. The vishanti would not even touch Cyttorak that's how powerful he is. Plus, Cyttorak has an avatar of destruction, Juggernaut. What avatar has Gorath produced? Nothing at all!
 
Cyttorak 10/10
 
Juggernaut would go 10/10 with Gorath also.
 
Stop your spite threads Cort.

#6 Posted by CortSether (1821 posts) - - Show Bio
@SamanyatheThirdWorldSomali: Shuma-Gorath has a number of gods that serve him. Including the god Arioch who can make himself as powerful as he wishes to be. Other servants of Shuma-Gorath include The Living Buddha,  the demon Sligguth and his priestess Ebora, N'gabthoth (a powerful demon), Dagoth (a sea demon), and Kathulos (a living planet). If anything, those subservient to Shuma-Gorath are greater than Juggernaut. By the way, the Vishanti would not help Dr. Strange against Shuma-Gorath as well, because they feared him. Sise-Neg could not even destroy Shuma-Gorath, only put him in a deep slumber and Sise-Neg is above Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, and Death in terms of total power.  
 
After Dr. Strange had merged with Shuma-Gorath and had Shuma's power, Kaluu told him that his mere presence would be enough to destroy galaxies. Therefore, Strange had to release this power. Classic Dr. Strange didn't even have  a chance against Shuma-Gorath until he absorbed the powers of Arioch, an extremely powerful god.
 
 
 
You make Shuma-Gorath out to be so much less than it is.
#7 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@CortSether: Why try?
#8 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio

so what happens when 2 omnipotent beings fight?

#9 Posted by bumnut (1789 posts) - - Show Bio

Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who!
#10 Posted by CortSether (1821 posts) - - Show Bio

 @bumnut:  I know Shuma-Gorath is his realm, so since he is his dimension he would be omnipotent there, same goes for Cyttorak within his Crimson Cosmos.
 
Outside of it, more likely neigh-omnipotent as far as Shuma goes. Can't say the same for Cyttorak since he cannot leave his cosmos.
 
Though, I am surprised there aren't anymore takers.

#11 Posted by Razorback (628 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a good battle...
 
I'm not quite sure who wins though.

#12 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful
#13 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@CortSether said:
"  @bumnut:  I know Shuma-Gorath is his realm, so since he is his dimension he would be omnipotent there, same goes for Cyttorak within his Crimson Cosmos.  Outside of it, more likely neigh-omnipotent as far as Shuma goes. Can't say the same for Cyttorak since he cannot leave his cosmos.  Though, I am surprised there aren't anymore takers. "
yes he can.
#14 Posted by CortSether (1821 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut: Really? I could have sworn that Cyttorak himself was confined within the Crimson Cosmos.
 
Has he demonstrated the ability to leave it? If he has, then my bad on the previous post.
#15 Posted by Akwa (4821 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
" @bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful "

Thats true. And neither of the beings are omnipotent.
#16 Posted by Akwa (4821 posts) - - Show Bio
@SamanyatheThirdWorldSomali said:
"This is a completely one-sided matchup. Cyttorak takes this. Heck, even his avatar Juggernaut defeats Gorath. The vishanti would not even touch Cyttorak that's how powerful he is. Plus, Cyttorak has an avatar of destruction, Juggernaut. What avatar has Gorath produced? Nothing at all!  Cyttorak 10/10  Juggernaut would go 10/10 with Gorath also.  Stop your spite threads Cort. "

Your stupidity makes baby Jesus cry.
#17 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful "
Thats true. And neither of the beings are omnipotent. "
in their realms they are
#18 Posted by Akwa (4821 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful "
Thats true. And neither of the beings are omnipotent. "
in their realms they are "

Then they are not. The definition of omnipotent is basically, 'limitless power'. Limitless in every way. Like for instance, the TOAA is omnipotent. If your omnipotence only extends to what realm you are in, it is by definition, not omnipotence as it is very much limited. 
 
The word 'omnipotence' is thrown around a lot in comics. Ever since Beyonder got retconned, there is only one truly omnipotent being in Marvel.
#19 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful "
Thats true. And neither of the beings are omnipotent. "
in their realms they are "
Then they are not. The definition of omnipotent is basically, 'limitless power'. Limitless in every way. Like for instance, the TOAA is omnipotent. If your omnipotence only extends to what realm you are in, it is by definition, not omnipotence as it is very much limited.  The word 'omnipotence' is thrown around a lot in comics. Ever since Beyonder got retconned, there is only one truly omnipotent being in Marvel. "
yes, in their realms, they can do whatever they want.  By the definition given (in their realm), it is limited.  If you can do anything in a certain area, then you are omnipotent in that area.
#20 Posted by Akwa (4821 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful "
Thats true. And neither of the beings are omnipotent. "
in their realms they are "
Then they are not. The definition of omnipotent is basically, 'limitless power'. Limitless in every way. Like for instance, the TOAA is omnipotent. If your omnipotence only extends to what realm you are in, it is by definition, not omnipotence as it is very much limited.  The word 'omnipotence' is thrown around a lot in comics. Ever since Beyonder got retconned, there is only one truly omnipotent being in Marvel. "
yes, in their realms, they can do whatever they want.  By the definition given (in their realm), it is limited.  If you can do anything in a certain area, then you are omnipotent in that area. "

Are you suggesting that Cytorrak could beat the One Above All (Non-celestial) if he was in his own realm?
#21 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful "
Thats true. And neither of the beings are omnipotent. "
in their realms they are "
Then they are not. The definition of omnipotent is basically, 'limitless power'. Limitless in every way. Like for instance, the TOAA is omnipotent. If your omnipotence only extends to what realm you are in, it is by definition, not omnipotence as it is very much limited.  The word 'omnipotence' is thrown around a lot in comics. Ever since Beyonder got retconned, there is only one truly omnipotent being in Marvel. "
yes, in their realms, they can do whatever they want.  By the definition given (in their realm), it is limited.  If you can do anything in a certain area, then you are omnipotent in that area. "
Are you suggesting that Cytorrak could beat the One Above All (Non-celestial) if he was in his own realm? "
no, since the one above all can simply destroy his realm. 
#22 Posted by capall (8278 posts) - - Show Bio

shuma should take this in his realm
#23 Posted by Akwa (4821 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful "
Thats true. And neither of the beings are omnipotent. "
in their realms they are "
Then they are not. The definition of omnipotent is basically, 'limitless power'. Limitless in every way. Like for instance, the TOAA is omnipotent. If your omnipotence only extends to what realm you are in, it is by definition, not omnipotence as it is very much limited.  The word 'omnipotence' is thrown around a lot in comics. Ever since Beyonder got retconned, there is only one truly omnipotent being in Marvel. "
yes, in their realms, they can do whatever they want.  By the definition given (in their realm), it is limited.  If you can do anything in a certain area, then you are omnipotent in that area. "
Are you suggesting that Cytorrak could beat the One Above All (Non-celestial) if he was in his own realm? "
no, since the one above all can simply destroy his realm.  "

Then he is not omnipotent in his own realm. If he truly was the most powerful being in his own realm, nothing should be able to take it away from him. Therefore, while he is incredibly powerful in his realm, he is not truly omnipotent.
#24 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful "
Thats true. And neither of the beings are omnipotent. "
in their realms they are "
Then they are not. The definition of omnipotent is basically, 'limitless power'. Limitless in every way. Like for instance, the TOAA is omnipotent. If your omnipotence only extends to what realm you are in, it is by definition, not omnipotence as it is very much limited.  The word 'omnipotence' is thrown around a lot in comics. Ever since Beyonder got retconned, there is only one truly omnipotent being in Marvel. "
yes, in their realms, they can do whatever they want.  By the definition given (in their realm), it is limited.  If you can do anything in a certain area, then you are omnipotent in that area. "
Are you suggesting that Cytorrak could beat the One Above All (Non-celestial) if he was in his own realm? "
no, since the one above all can simply destroy his realm.  "
Then he is not omnipotent in his own realm. If he truly was the most powerful being in his own realm, nothing should be able to take it away from him. Therefore, while he is incredibly powerful in his realm, he is not truly omnipotent. "
if the one he was fighting was the most powerful being in existence, then he should be able to take it away from him. 
#25 Posted by TheGuy (595 posts) - - Show Bio
@Akwa: The unstoppable force Vs. the Immovable Object?
 
He is Functionally omnipotent in the Comics sense. Not the literal or even philosophical manner.
#26 Posted by Akwa (4821 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @Akwa said:
" @the human Juggernaut said:
" @bumnut said:
" Omnipotent? Wouldn't go that far.  Maybe allpowerfull, but not quite omnipotent.  What happens? Well, one wins, and one loses :-) Guess that's what we need to decide, is the who! "
omnipotent means all powerful "
Thats true. And neither of the beings are omnipotent. "
in their realms they are "
Then they are not. The definition of omnipotent is basically, 'limitless power'. Limitless in every way. Like for instance, the TOAA is omnipotent. If your omnipotence only extends to what realm you are in, it is by definition, not omnipotence as it is very much limited.  The word 'omnipotence' is thrown around a lot in comics. Ever since Beyonder got retconned, there is only one truly omnipotent being in Marvel. "
yes, in their realms, they can do whatever they want.  By the definition given (in their realm), it is limited.  If you can do anything in a certain area, then you are omnipotent in that area. "
Are you suggesting that Cytorrak could beat the One Above All (Non-celestial) if he was in his own realm? "
no, since the one above all can simply destroy his realm.  "
Then he is not omnipotent in his own realm. If he truly was the most powerful being in his own realm, nothing should be able to take it away from him. Therefore, while he is incredibly powerful in his realm, he is not truly omnipotent. "
if the one he was fighting was the most powerful being in existence, then he should be able to take it away from him.  "

So you acknowledge that TOAA is more powerful than him. Therefore he cannot be omnipotent since to be TRULY omnipotent, there would be nobody more powerful than yourself.
#27 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
"  In other realm/Earth -hard battle, but I can give SG 51% for the win. "
I have changed my opinion - Shuma will win it even in Earth (99%)
#28 Posted by *Void* (874 posts) - - Show Bio

shuma wins 7/11
#29 Posted by BillyBonzo (418 posts) - - Show Bio

Shuma-Gorath would take this, I his believe his power is greater than Cyttorak 

#30 Posted by Aeschma Deava (301 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyttorak. Shuma has no feats.

#31 Posted by Princess Noa (124 posts) - - Show Bio

I know I'm late to this but I reeaaally want to answer. 
 
Shuma-Gorath ftw every single time ^_^

#32 Posted by Prudence the Wooden Pickle (208 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is gay.

#33 Posted by Grand Ninja (2330 posts) - - Show Bio

it'll take two of them to beat shuma... in shuma's realm.

#34 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prudence the Wooden Pickle said:
" This thread is gay. "
Strange comment coming for you, with some of the threads you've created.
#35 Posted by Son_of_Magnus (15258 posts) - - Show Bio

I am going with Shuma 8/10

#36 Edited by Danilo018 (849 posts) - - Show Bio
@Baldy said:
" @Aeschma Deava said:
" Cyttorak. Shuma has no feats. "
Hahahahahaha! 
 
Oh wow yeah, he totally has no feats and the Octessence totally do right? xD
 
Go read a comic with him in it.
 
@Grand Ninja said:
" it'll take two of them to beat shuma... in shuma's realm. "

Hahahahahahahaha!
 
Whew, you guys are cracking me up.
 
@Danilo018 said:
" Well Shuma-Gorath is an arch enemy of The Vishanti, and Vishanti don't want to mess with Cyttorak. Yet they faught Shuma, anyway they couldn't defeat him. But they weren't afraid of him since they faught him to  banish him from Earth,  so logicly Cytorak>Shuma. "
This is some of the most failed logic in the entire thread. "

That's your opinion. And can you explain to me why you think so ?
Well Shuma-Gorath is an arch enemy of The Vishanti, and Vishanti don't want to mess with Cyttorak. Yet they faught Shuma, anyway they couldn't defeat him. 
But they weren't afraid of him since they faught him to  banish him from Earth,  so logicly Cyttorak>Shuma.
#37 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio
@Aeschma Deava said:
" Cyttorak. Shuma has no feats. "
Hahahahahaha! 
 
Oh wow yeah, he totally has no feats and the Octessence totally do right? xD
 
Go read a comic with him in it.
 
@Grand Ninja said:
" it'll take two of them to beat shuma... in shuma's realm. "

Hahahahahahahaha!
 
Whew, you guys are cracking me up.
 
@Danilo018 said:
" Well Shuma-Gorath is an arch enemy of The Vishanti, and Vishanti don't want to mess with Cyttorak. Yet they faught Shuma, anyway they couldn't defeat him. But they weren't afraid of him since they faught him to  banish him from Earth,  so logicly Cytorak>Shuma. "

This is some of the most failed logic in the entire thread.
#38 Posted by Goenitz (2064 posts) - - Show Bio

Good batlle, difficulty to say exactly 

#39 Posted by Norbit (72 posts) - - Show Bio

cyttorak. He is the unstopable of the unstopable.
#40 Posted by Montaq (935 posts) - - Show Bio

Shuma. I think he is more powerful overall, but if not he could just leech his powers away from him and add to his own.

#41 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@Norbit said:
" cyttorak. He is the unstopable of the unstopable. "
you got that right. check this out.
#42 Posted by Goenitz (2064 posts) - - Show Bio

Hard to say here, but I think Shuma takes this

#43 Posted by MichaeltheFly (6555 posts) - - Show Bio

In my opinion Shuma-Gorath takes this one.

#44 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio

i'll take shuma for this one as well.

#45 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6133 posts) - - Show Bio

And I'm with Cyttorak .

#46 Edited by chewbaccazm (180 posts) - - Show Bio

SG wins in his and the other dem. but loses in cyttorak

#47 Posted by Danilo018 (849 posts) - - Show Bio

The Vishanti don't dare to fight Cyttorak, but on the other hand they are arch-nemesis with Shuma Gorath and dare to fight him. So wouldn't by that logic than be Cyttorak > Shuma Gorath. Also Dr. Strange on one occassion defeated Shuma Gorath by invoking power of Cyttorak and some other deity(which name I don't remember). It was just a portion of Cyttorak's power, but it was enough to secure the banishment of Shuma Gorath from our dimension. So I go with Cyttorak here.    
#48 Edited by Goenitz (2064 posts) - - Show Bio
@Danilo018 said:

" The Vishanti don't dare to fight Cyttorak, but on the other hand they are arch-nemesis with Shuma Gorath and dare to fight him. So wouldn't by that logic than be Cyttorak > Shuma Gorath. Also Dr. Strange on one occassion defeated Shuma Gorath by invoking power of Cyttorak and some other deity(which name I don't remember). It was just a portion of Cyttorak's power, but it was enough to secure the banishment of Shuma Gorath from our dimension. So I go with Cyttorak here.     "

The Vishanti couldn´t stop Shuma Gorath, Also Dr. Strange banned Shuma with the powers of Arioch and Cyttorak combinated and it´s not clear if was a small portion of Cyttorak´s power, Shuma Gorath shows more feats and powers than Cyttorak being
#49 Posted by Danilo018 (849 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goenitz said:
"@Danilo018 said:

" The Vishanti don't dare to fight Cyttorak, but on the other hand they are arch-nemesis with Shuma Gorath and dare to fight him. So wouldn't by that logic than be Cyttorak > Shuma Gorath. Also Dr. Strange on one occassion defeated Shuma Gorath by invoking power of Cyttorak and some other deity(which name I don't remember). It was just a portion of Cyttorak's power, but it was enough to secure the banishment of Shuma Gorath from our dimension. So I go with Cyttorak here.     "

The Vishanti couldn´t stop Shuma Gorath, Also Dr. Strange banned Shuma with the powers of Arioch and Cyttorak combinated and it´s not clear if was a small portion of Cyttorak´s power, Shuma Gorath shows more feats and powers than Cyttorak being "

Well he surely isn't going to power the Strange with all of his power. He gives the portion to his avatar, and why would he give more to Strange. Also think if you're the some powerfull entity would you give all of your power.  
Yep the Vishanti couldn't stop the Shuma Gorath, but they dared to fight him. On the other hand it was stated that they don't want to fight anything that has any connection with Cyttorak.
#50 Edited by Goenitz (2064 posts) - - Show Bio
@Danilo018 said:

" @Goenitz said:

"@Danilo018 said:

" The Vishanti don't dare to fight Cyttorak, but on the other hand they are arch-nemesis with Shuma Gorath and dare to fight him. So wouldn't by that logic than be Cyttorak > Shuma Gorath. Also Dr. Strange on one occassion defeated Shuma Gorath by invoking power of Cyttorak and some other deity(which name I don't remember). It was just a portion of Cyttorak's power, but it was enough to secure the banishment of Shuma Gorath from our dimension. So I go with Cyttorak here.     "

The Vishanti couldn´t stop Shuma Gorath, Also Dr. Strange banned Shuma with the powers of Arioch and Cyttorak combinated and it´s not clear if was a small portion of Cyttorak´s power, Shuma Gorath shows more feats and powers than Cyttorak being "
Well he surely isn't going to power the Strange with all of his power. He gives the portion to his avatar, and why would he give more to Strange. Also think if you're the some powerfull entity would you give all of your power.  Yep the Vishanti couldn't stop the Shuma Gorath, but they dared to fight him. On the other hand it was stated that they don't want to fight anything that has any connection with Cyttorak. "
I respect your point my friend, I agree he won´t give Strange all of his power for sure, but it's not said a small portion and we have to consider Arioch's power too , Arioch definitly is powerfull too, The Vishanti don´t dare with Cyttorak but we don´t know what will happen with they dare...
But I believe it will be a tough match