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#1 Posted by Crimson_Chin_of_Cyttorak (30 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim Jaspers teleports into the Crimson Cosmos after detecting a powerful energy. Cyttorak recognizes that Jaspers is a crazy lunatic and wants to destroy him and rid the omniverse of his presence forever. Jaspers does not take Cyttorak's meanness toward him kindly. Does Jaspers warp Cyttorak and his cosmos or does he die?   

 
#2 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio

Last time I checked Jaspers died twice and Cyttorak remains eternal.

#3 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:
Last time I checked Jaspers died twice and Cyttorak remains eternal.
Last time I checked MJJ was an omniversal powerhouse whereas Cyttorak is too worthless for anyone to give a darn about, which is why nobody cares to see him in cosmic events. 
#4 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16944 posts) - - Show Bio

Hard battle, but only because of battlefield. I am rather going with MJJ

#5 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
#6 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
#7 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
#8 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
No, it's a pocket realm. 
#9 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio

I think MJJ might actually lose if facing Cy within his realm. 
 
& MJJ was'nt a OmniversalPower, he had potential to become that but at starting levels is just Universal. If at his Top Levels, like if completed JaspersWarp he then would of become one w/the Omniverse & would stomp Cy with utter ease
 
#10 Posted by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio
Jimmy's going to be thinking with his dip stick and pulls it out. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.
#11 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@recordkeeper said:
I think MJJ might actually lose if facing Cy within his realm.  & MJJ was'nt a OmniversalPower, he had potential to become that but at starting levels is just Universal. If at his Top Levels, like if completed JaspersWarp he then would of become one w/the Omniverse & would stomp Cy with utter ease 
616 MJJ was absolutely an omniversal power based on the fact Matrix-Merlyn, an omniversal power, was unable to stop 616 Jaspers. Matrix-Merlyn was a clear omniversal power, shown by creating the Starlight Citadel, an omniversal nexus, as well as creating Otherworld. Yet Matrix-Merlyn was still weaker than 238 Mad Jim Jaspers who's much weaker than 616 Mad Jim Jaspers. It makes 616 MJJ an omniversal power by default simply by being superior to a previously established omniversal power. 
#12 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
I think MJJ might actually lose if facing Cy within his realm.  & MJJ was'nt a OmniversalPower, he had potential to become that but at starting levels is just Universal. If at his Top Levels, like if completed JaspersWarp he then would of become one w/the Omniverse & would stomp Cy with utter ease 
616 MJJ was absolutely an omniversal power based on the fact Matrix-Merlyn, an omniversal power, was unable to stop 616 Jaspers. Matrix-Merlyn was a clear omniversal power, shown by creating the Starlight Citadel, an omniversal nexus, as well as creating Otherworld. Yet Matrix-Merlyn was still weaker than 238 Mad Jim Jaspers who's much weaker than 616 Mad Jim Jaspers. It makes 616 MJJ an omniversal power by default simply by being superior to a previously established omniversal power. 

no, MJJ never actually reached his Omniversal levels. & merlyn never tried confronting MJJ directly & not because of he did'nt have power to either, MJJ was simple a pawn to him he used for training Roma basically & other reasons that where his own... 
 
Fact remains no MJJ EVER reached his Omniversal levels.& at his starting levels is Indeed just a Universal power...
#13 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@recordkeeper said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
no, MJJ never actually reached his Omniversal levels. & merlyn never tried confronting MJJ directly & not because of he did'nt have power to either, MJJ was simple a pawn to him he used for training Roma basically & other reasons that where his own...  Fact remains no MJJ EVER reached his Omniversal levels.& at his starting levels is Indeed just a Universal power...

Fact remains that you're wrong. Merlyn was unable to do anything to a far weaker 238 reality MJJ.  Merlyn, an omniversal power, even admits that his own abilities were thwarted by reality 238 Jaspers. 
 

 
 

 
616 MJJ was much more powerful than 238 MJJ and yet 238 MJJ was still more powerful than an omniversal power, Merlyn. Your records are faulty Mr. Keeper.
#14 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio

ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry... 
 
MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
#15 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...

Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
#16 Posted by higher_evolutionary (2015 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
noooooooooooooooooooo 
it took the destruction of the 238 reality to beat mjj right
meryln >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>universe buster
it was just a plot device and back then writer didnt understand what an omniverse means or proper scaling
matrix merlyn should blink 238 mjj
and beat 616 mjj without too much trouble but he was a plot device to pump up the threat of MJJ
#17 Posted by Boobster (1608 posts) - - Show Bio

MJJ wins.

#18 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn).


your scan does'nt prove that at all, sorry you don' understand that..
#19 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim Jaspers.

#20 Edited by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:

@Prince CortSether said:

@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
it's unparalleled. a parallel universe means "stringed" together by the probability of time so there are similarities but things differ by cause and effect. cyttorak's universe is unlike that. it's a whole different reality that is not paralleled or string through the other realities of marvel. that said, crimson cosmos is not by any regards related or build upon by the structure of string theory or quantum realities under the essence of multi-eternity. this is the grey area where kenshiroo  and i have our differences. he calls it a pocketed reality, i call it an unparalleled reality because if it were truly a pocketed reality like lets say, mephisto's realm or asgard, he wouldn't have the power to effect other unparalleled realities like the malibu universe and the rest of the ultraverse. and if the crimson cosmos where truly pocketed, it would have a permanent spot within the multiverse, but it does not. it is outside of the multiverse, not within it. anyhow, cyttorak would defeat any version of the mortal mad jim jasper regardless of jaspers' potential. mad jim jaspers is just a high class reality warper. he needs a reality equal to his level of perception in order to warp reality and he does not have the perception to warp the crimson cosmos. he doesn't even know how to use magic. he is far weaker and sustainable to vulnrability than molecule man or beyonder and cyttorak has no vulnerability whatsoever. 
 
 
  @Prince CortSether said:

@recordkeeper said:

ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.

merlyn the "omniversal guardian" is nothing compared to the ancient one. you of all people should know that. here, let me help you refresh your memory and ask you; can matrix-merlyn defeat shuma gorath? i believe your answer would be no. ancient one would stand a far greater chance against shuma than merlyn and mad jim jaspers combined. 
#21 Posted by Boobster (1608 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
it's unparalleled. a parallel universe means "stringed" together by the probability of time so there are similarities, but things differ by cause and effect. cyttorak's universe is unlike that. it's a whole different reality that is not paralleled or string through the other realities of marvel. that said that crimson cosmos is not by any regards related or build upon by the structure of string theory or quantum realities under the essence of multi-eternity. this is the grey area where me and kenshiroo have our differences. he calls it a pocketed reality, i call it an unparalleled reality because if it were truly a pocketed reality like lets say, mephisto's realm or asgard, he wouldn't have the power to effect other unparalleled realities like the malibu universe and the rest of the ultraverse. and if the crimson cosmos where truly pocketed, it would have a permanent spot within the multiverse, but it does not. it is outside of the multiverse, not within it. anyhow, cyttorak would defeat any version of the mortal mad jim jasper regardless jaspers' potential. mad jim jaspers is just a high class reality warper. he need a reality equal to his level of perception in order to warp reality and he does not have the perception to warp the crimson cosmos. he doesn't even know how to use magic. he is far weaker and sustainable to vulnrability than molecule man or beyonder and cyttorak has no vulnerability whatsoever. 
 
 
 @Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
merlyn the "omniversal guardian" is nothing compared to the ancient one. you of all people should know that. here, let me help you refresh your memory and ask you; can matrix-merlyn defeat shuma gorath? i believe your answer would be no. ancient one would stand a far greater chance against shuma than merlyn and mad jim jaspers combined. 
Cyttorak has never affected Malibu universe.
And MJJ would kill Shuma with a snap of his fingers.
#22 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@tron_bonne said:

@Prince CortSether said:

@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
it's unparalleled. a parallel universe means "stringed" together by the probability of time so there are similarities but things differ by cause and effect. cyttorak's universe is unlike that. it's a whole different reality that is not paralleled or string through the other realities of marvel. that said, crimson cosmos is not by any regards related or build upon by the structure of string theory or quantum realities under the essence of multi-eternity. this is the grey area where kenshiroo  and i have our differences. he calls it a pocketed reality, i call it an unparalleled reality because if it were truly a pocketed reality like lets say, mephisto's realm or asgard, he wouldn't have the power to effect other unparalleled realities like the malibu universe and the rest of the ultraverse. and if the crimson cosmos where truly pocketed, it would have a permanent spot within the multiverse, but it does not. it is outside of the multiverse, not within it. anyhow, cyttorak would defeat any version of the mortal mad jim jasper regardless of jaspers' potential. mad jim jaspers is just a high class reality warper. he needs a reality equal to his level of perception in order to warp reality and he does not have the perception to warp the crimson cosmos. he doesn't even know how to use magic. he is far weaker and sustainable to vulnrability than molecule man or beyonder and cyttorak has no vulnerability whatsoever. 
 
 
  @Prince CortSether said:

@recordkeeper said:

merlyn the "omniversal guardian" is nothing compared to the ancient one. you of all people should know that. here, let me help you refresh your memory and ask you; can matrix-merlyn defeat shuma gorath? i believe your answer would be no. ancient one would stand a far greater chance against shuma than merlyn and mad jim jaspers combined. 


lol, got that backwards, Cy or Shuma, hell even together are nothing to matrix merged Merlyn...MJJ at his full potential would also EASILY own both together...

 
CC is also part of Marvel Multiverse/Ominverse, not some other reality that's not connected to them at all.  seems like your makeing things up to fit how YOU view Cy, which is'nt the reality of the character...

#23 Edited by JediXMan (29514 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm backing MJJ.

#24 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@recordkeeper said:

lol, got that backwards, Cy or Shuma, hell even together are nothing to matrix merged Merlyn...MJJ at his full potential would also EASILY own both together...

 
CC is also part of Marvel Multiverse/Ominverse, not some other reality that's not connected to them at all.  seems like your makeing things up to fit how YOU view Cy, which is'nt the reality of the character...

have you forgotten how mad jim jasper was destroyed? also, how can the fundamentals of reality "warp" magic? how does a reality warper warp a concept? answer that. and by the way, my view..... stan's view.... is the reality of what i'm saying, because let me now ask this? how is the crimson cosmos an unlimited powered reality while the multiverse itself isn't truly infinite, yet you say an endless reality connected to one that is finite? why does one cyttorak out of all the omniverse have the same avatar in all multiple realities and him not being infinite? you claim that merlyn can defeat shuma and cyttorak, well... were was he when shuma pretty much devoured most of all quantum realities? were was he when nightmare kidnapped multieternity and destroyed all earth in all timelines and reality? so much for being a omniversal guardian. self proclaimed omniversal guardian if i might add. neither of the two can defeat cyttorak. they have not the comprehension to do so. not the power nor the means.
#25 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@recordkeeper said:

lol, got that backwards, Cy or Shuma, hell even together are nothing to matrix merged Merlyn...MJJ at his full potential would also EASILY own both together...

 
CC is also part of Marvel Multiverse/Ominverse, not some other reality that's not connected to them at all.  seems like your makeing things up to fit how YOU view Cy, which is'nt the reality of the character...

have you forgotten how mad jim jasper was destroyed? also, how can the fundamentals of reality "warp" magic? how does a reality warper warp a concept? answer that. and by the way, my view..... stan's view.... is the reality of what i'm saying, because let me now ask this? how is the crimson cosmos an unlimited powered reality while the multiverse itself isn't truly infinite, yet you say an endless reality connected to one that is finite? why does one cyttorak out of all the omniverse have the same avatar in all multiple realities and him not being infinite? you claim that merlyn can defeat shuma and cyttorak, well... were was he when shuma pretty much devoured most of all quantum realities? were was he when nightmare kidnapped multieternity and destroyed all earth in all timelines and reality? so much for being a omniversal guardian. self proclaimed omniversal guardian if i might add. neither of the two can defeat cyttorak. they have not the comprehension to do so. not the power nor the means.

No I have'nt & that was'nt a Jaspers at his full potential which I was talking about.  
It's comics,he can warp whatever he wants, does'nt matter if it's magic. Show a reality warper that has had problems warping magic & then talk.
there's alot of unlimted powered realities & there still all part of the Multiverse. In fact most all Universes ar described that way. 
Ok PLEASE prove that cy powers a avatar in EVERY reality within Multiverse...or for that matter that  cy himself is unique in the Multiverse... 
Obviously merlyn does'nt show up for everything, just like all cosmic beings pertty much, hell only other Omniversal gaurdian is LT, does he show up for everything? no, very vey rearly...probable know them losers where doomed so did'nt even bother most likely... 
#26 Edited by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@recordkeeper said:

@Lance Bastro said:

@recordkeeper said:

lol, got that backwards, Cy or Shuma, hell even together are nothing to matrix merged Merlyn...MJJ at his full potential would also EASILY own both together...

 
CC is also part of Marvel Multiverse/Ominverse, not some other reality that's not connected to them at all.  seems like your makeing things up to fit how YOU view Cy, which is'nt the reality of the character...

have you forgotten how mad jim jasper was destroyed? also, how can the fundamentals of reality "warp" magic? how does a reality warper warp a concept? answer that. and by the way, my view..... stan's view.... is the reality of what i'm saying, because let me now ask this? how is the crimson cosmos an unlimited powered reality while the multiverse itself isn't truly infinite, yet you say an endless reality connected to one that is finite? why does one cyttorak out of all the omniverse have the same avatar in all multiple realities and him not being infinite? you claim that merlyn can defeat shuma and cyttorak, well... were was he when shuma pretty much devoured most of all quantum realities? were was he when nightmare kidnapped multieternity and destroyed all earth in all timelines and reality? so much for being a omniversal guardian. self proclaimed omniversal guardian if i might add. neither of the two can defeat cyttorak. they have not the comprehension to do so. not the power nor the means.
No I have'nt & that was'nt a Jaspers at his full potential which I was talking about.  It's comics,he can warp whatever he wants, does'nt matter if it's magic. Show a reality warper that has had problems warping magic & then talk.there's alot of unlimted powered realities & there still all part of the Multiverse. In fact most all Universes ar described that way. Ok PLEASE prove that cy powers a avatar in EVERY reality within Multiverse...or for that matter that  cy himself is unique in the Multiverse... Obviously merlyn does'nt show up for everything, just like all cosmic beings pertty much, hell only other Omniversal gaurdian is LT, does he show up for everything? no, very vey rearly...probable know them losers where doomed so did'nt even bother most likely... 
 
it doesn't matter what potential he is because if there is no reality to warp, he can not warp reality. that is the reality HE CAN COMPREHEND AS A REALITY. keep in mind that mad jim jaspers is a human man. he has the same comprehensional level as you and i. that means he can warp a truck into 2 motorcyles and turn a cat into a small dog by using the resources of that reality. he can not turn a dog into magic or anything else into magic because 1) magic is overall extradimensional and 2) he does not have the comprehension nor perception of magic. even the living tribunal can not create his own magic out of nothing. he has to invoke it just like any other being because magic is extradimensional.  
 
the way you are wording the term "omniversal" is a misinterpretation. if let's say, mmj wanted to create a lamborghini for every nation in the earth in all realities, he can. by the resources that reality (that he can understand) provides him, he can turn every car in every reality thoughout the omniverse into lamborghinis.  but he can not turn all the cars into real agamottos, chthons, living tribunals or anything else that is beyond his comprehension or level of thinking. he does not have the consciousnesses to do that. yes comics are comics, but this is marvel and they do apply some logic behind their stories and characters. comics for all intended purposes is sci-fi, but the "magic" is the part where science can not explain due to our level of comprehension.
#27 Posted by Final Arrow (24359 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lance Bastro: Acutally you need to keep in mind that MJJ is not a normal man, he is an insane man, his reality is something far from a normal mans as you put it. Just throwing that in there.

#28 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@Final Arrow said:

@Lance Bastro: Acutally you need to keep in mind that MJJ is not a normal man, he is an insane man, his reality is something far from a normal mans as you put it. Just throwing that in there.

oh yes, i haven't forgotten that. but there is a reason of his insanity, but i am waiting for my friend to reply back. i will also be awaiting his defense of the creation of the fury which will pop up sooner or later. lol
#29 Posted by Boobster (1608 posts) - - Show Bio

Bastro, you don't know what you're talking about. Also waiting for you to reply to my post.

#30 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@recordkeeper said:

@Lance Bastro said:

@recordkeeper said:

lol, got that backwards, Cy or Shuma, hell even together are nothing to matrix merged Merlyn...MJJ at his full potential would also EASILY own both together...

 
CC is also part of Marvel Multiverse/Ominverse, not some other reality that's not connected to them at all.  seems like your makeing things up to fit how YOU view Cy, which is'nt the reality of the character...

have you forgotten how mad jim jasper was destroyed? also, how can the fundamentals of reality "warp" magic? how does a reality warper warp a concept? answer that. and by the way, my view..... stan's view.... is the reality of what i'm saying, because let me now ask this? how is the crimson cosmos an unlimited powered reality while the multiverse itself isn't truly infinite, yet you say an endless reality connected to one that is finite? why does one cyttorak out of all the omniverse have the same avatar in all multiple realities and him not being infinite? you claim that merlyn can defeat shuma and cyttorak, well... were was he when shuma pretty much devoured most of all quantum realities? were was he when nightmare kidnapped multieternity and destroyed all earth in all timelines and reality? so much for being a omniversal guardian. self proclaimed omniversal guardian if i might add. neither of the two can defeat cyttorak. they have not the comprehension to do so. not the power nor the means.
No I have'nt & that was'nt a Jaspers at his full potential which I was talking about.  It's comics,he can warp whatever he wants, does'nt matter if it's magic. Show a reality warper that has had problems warping magic & then talk.there's alot of unlimted powered realities & there still all part of the Multiverse. In fact most all Universes ar described that way. Ok PLEASE prove that cy powers a avatar in EVERY reality within Multiverse...or for that matter that  cy himself is unique in the Multiverse... Obviously merlyn does'nt show up for everything, just like all cosmic beings pertty much, hell only other Omniversal gaurdian is LT, does he show up for everything? no, very vey rearly...probable know them losers where doomed so did'nt even bother most likely... 
 it doesn't matter what potential he is because if there is no reality to warp, he can not warp reality. that is the reality HE CAN COMPREHEND AS A REALITY. keep in mind that mad jim jaspers is a human man. he has the same comprehensional level as you and i. that means he can warp a truck into 2 motorcyles and turn a cat into a small dog by using the resources of that reality. he can not turn a dog into magic or anything else into magic because 1) magic is overall extradimensional and 2) he does not have the comprehension nor perception of magic. even the living tribunal can not create his own magic out of nothing. he has to invoke it just like any other being because magic is extradimensional.   the way you are wording the term "omniversal" is a misinterpretation. if let's say, mmj wanted to create a lamborghini for every nation in the earth in all realities, he can. by the resources that reality (that he can understand) provides him, he can turn every car in every reality thoughout the omniverse into lamborghinis.  but he can not turn all the cars into real agamottos, chthons, living tribunals or anything else that is beyond his comprehension or level of thinking. he does not have the consciousnesses to do that. yes comics are comics, but this is marvel and they do apply some logic behind their stories and characters. comics for all intended purposes is sci-fi, but the "magic" is the part where science can not explain due to our level of comprehension.

I disagree cause he would of become w/Omniverse, he would be more & part of everything them (magic included)... 
 
rest you kind of went off on stuff we where'nt even talking about & avoided a few things i said...oh well...
#31 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
it's unparalleled. a parallel universe means "stringed" together by the probability of time so there are similarities, but things differ by cause and effect. cyttorak's universe is unlike that. it's a whole different reality that is not paralleled or string through the other realities of marvel. that said that crimson cosmos is not by any regards related or build upon by the structure of string theory or quantum realities under the essence of multi-eternity. this is the grey area where me and kenshiroo have our differences. he calls it a pocketed reality, i call it an unparalleled reality because if it were truly a pocketed reality like lets say, mephisto's realm or asgard, he wouldn't have the power to effect other unparalleled realities like the malibu universe and the rest of the ultraverse. and if the crimson cosmos where truly pocketed, it would have a permanent spot within the multiverse, but it does not. it is outside of the multiverse, not within it. anyhow, cyttorak would defeat any version of the mortal mad jim jasper regardless jaspers' potential. mad jim jaspers is just a high class reality warper. he need a reality equal to his level of perception in order to warp reality and he does not have the perception to warp the crimson cosmos. he doesn't even know how to use magic. he is far weaker and sustainable to vulnrability than molecule man or beyonder and cyttorak has no vulnerability whatsoever. 
 
 
 @Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
merlyn the "omniversal guardian" is nothing compared to the ancient one. you of all people should know that. here, let me help you refresh your memory and ask you; can matrix-merlyn defeat shuma gorath? i believe your answer would be no. ancient one would stand a far greater chance against shuma than merlyn and mad jim jaspers combined. 
Cyttorak has never affected Malibu universe. And MJJ would kill Shuma with a snap of his fingers.
he has. if he didn't juggernaut would be plain o' cain marko with no power of any kind. shuma would eat mmj powers 1st before swatting him like a fly.
#32 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@recordkeeper said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@recordkeeper said:

@Lance Bastro said:

@recordkeeper said:

lol, got that backwards, Cy or Shuma, hell even together are nothing to matrix merged Merlyn...MJJ at his full potential would also EASILY own both together...

 
CC is also part of Marvel Multiverse/Ominverse, not some other reality that's not connected to them at all.  seems like your makeing things up to fit how YOU view Cy, which is'nt the reality of the character...

have you forgotten how mad jim jasper was destroyed? also, how can the fundamentals of reality "warp" magic? how does a reality warper warp a concept? answer that. and by the way, my view..... stan's view.... is the reality of what i'm saying, because let me now ask this? how is the crimson cosmos an unlimited powered reality while the multiverse itself isn't truly infinite, yet you say an endless reality connected to one that is finite? why does one cyttorak out of all the omniverse have the same avatar in all multiple realities and him not being infinite? you claim that merlyn can defeat shuma and cyttorak, well... were was he when shuma pretty much devoured most of all quantum realities? were was he when nightmare kidnapped multieternity and destroyed all earth in all timelines and reality? so much for being a omniversal guardian. self proclaimed omniversal guardian if i might add. neither of the two can defeat cyttorak. they have not the comprehension to do so. not the power nor the means.
No I have'nt & that was'nt a Jaspers at his full potential which I was talking about.  It's comics,he can warp whatever he wants, does'nt matter if it's magic. Show a reality warper that has had problems warping magic & then talk.there's alot of unlimted powered realities & there still all part of the Multiverse. In fact most all Universes ar described that way. Ok PLEASE prove that cy powers a avatar in EVERY reality within Multiverse...or for that matter that  cy himself is unique in the Multiverse... Obviously merlyn does'nt show up for everything, just like all cosmic beings pertty much, hell only other Omniversal gaurdian is LT, does he show up for everything? no, very vey rearly...probable know them losers where doomed so did'nt even bother most likely... 
 it doesn't matter what potential he is because if there is no reality to warp, he can not warp reality. that is the reality HE CAN COMPREHEND AS A REALITY. keep in mind that mad jim jaspers is a human man. he has the same comprehensional level as you and i. that means he can warp a truck into 2 motorcyles and turn a cat into a small dog by using the resources of that reality. he can not turn a dog into magic or anything else into magic because 1) magic is overall extradimensional and 2) he does not have the comprehension nor perception of magic. even the living tribunal can not create his own magic out of nothing. he has to invoke it just like any other being because magic is extradimensional.   the way you are wording the term "omniversal" is a misinterpretation. if let's say, mmj wanted to create a lamborghini for every nation in the earth in all realities, he can. by the resources that reality (that he can understand) provides him, he can turn every car in every reality thoughout the omniverse into lamborghinis.  but he can not turn all the cars into real agamottos, chthons, living tribunals or anything else that is beyond his comprehension or level of thinking. he does not have the consciousnesses to do that. yes comics are comics, but this is marvel and they do apply some logic behind their stories and characters. comics for all intended purposes is sci-fi, but the "magic" is the part where science can not explain due to our level of comprehension.
I disagree cause he would of become w/Omniverse, he would be more & part of everything them (magic included)...  rest you kind of went off on stuff we where'nt even talking about & avoided a few things i said...oh well...
well mmj couldn't effect any of the extradimensional beings of the omniverse, and magic can effect him but not the other way around. was it not power of chthon and probability that effected mjj? there should be a thread of mjj vs chthon to clarify the power of the two, yet chthon is inferior to cyttorak. there is only one cyttorak in the omniverse, but many mad jim jaspers in multiple realities. 
#33 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@recordkeeper said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@recordkeeper said:

@Lance Bastro said:

@recordkeeper said:

lol, got that backwards, Cy or Shuma, hell even together are nothing to matrix merged Merlyn...MJJ at his full potential would also EASILY own both together...

 
CC is also part of Marvel Multiverse/Ominverse, not some other reality that's not connected to them at all.  seems like your makeing things up to fit how YOU view Cy, which is'nt the reality of the character...

have you forgotten how mad jim jasper was destroyed? also, how can the fundamentals of reality "warp" magic? how does a reality warper warp a concept? answer that. and by the way, my view..... stan's view.... is the reality of what i'm saying, because let me now ask this? how is the crimson cosmos an unlimited powered reality while the multiverse itself isn't truly infinite, yet you say an endless reality connected to one that is finite? why does one cyttorak out of all the omniverse have the same avatar in all multiple realities and him not being infinite? you claim that merlyn can defeat shuma and cyttorak, well... were was he when shuma pretty much devoured most of all quantum realities? were was he when nightmare kidnapped multieternity and destroyed all earth in all timelines and reality? so much for being a omniversal guardian. self proclaimed omniversal guardian if i might add. neither of the two can defeat cyttorak. they have not the comprehension to do so. not the power nor the means.
No I have'nt & that was'nt a Jaspers at his full potential which I was talking about.  It's comics,he can warp whatever he wants, does'nt matter if it's magic. Show a reality warper that has had problems warping magic & then talk.there's alot of unlimted powered realities & there still all part of the Multiverse. In fact most all Universes ar described that way. Ok PLEASE prove that cy powers a avatar in EVERY reality within Multiverse...or for that matter that  cy himself is unique in the Multiverse... Obviously merlyn does'nt show up for everything, just like all cosmic beings pertty much, hell only other Omniversal gaurdian is LT, does he show up for everything? no, very vey rearly...probable know them losers where doomed so did'nt even bother most likely... 
 it doesn't matter what potential he is because if there is no reality to warp, he can not warp reality. that is the reality HE CAN COMPREHEND AS A REALITY. keep in mind that mad jim jaspers is a human man. he has the same comprehensional level as you and i. that means he can warp a truck into 2 motorcyles and turn a cat into a small dog by using the resources of that reality. he can not turn a dog into magic or anything else into magic because 1) magic is overall extradimensional and 2) he does not have the comprehension nor perception of magic. even the living tribunal can not create his own magic out of nothing. he has to invoke it just like any other being because magic is extradimensional.   the way you are wording the term "omniversal" is a misinterpretation. if let's say, mmj wanted to create a lamborghini for every nation in the earth in all realities, he can. by the resources that reality (that he can understand) provides him, he can turn every car in every reality thoughout the omniverse into lamborghinis.  but he can not turn all the cars into real agamottos, chthons, living tribunals or anything else that is beyond his comprehension or level of thinking. he does not have the consciousnesses to do that. yes comics are comics, but this is marvel and they do apply some logic behind their stories and characters. comics for all intended purposes is sci-fi, but the "magic" is the part where science can not explain due to our level of comprehension.
I disagree cause he would of become w/Omniverse, he would be more & part of everything them (magic included)...  rest you kind of went off on stuff we where'nt even talking about & avoided a few things i said...oh well...
well mmj couldn't effect any of the extradimensional beings of the omniverse, and magic can effect him but not the other way around. was it not power of chthon and probability that effected mjj? there should be a thread of mjj vs chthon to clarify the power of the two, yet chthon is inferior to cyttorak. there is only one cyttorak in the omniverse, but many mad jim jaspers in multiple realities. 

he never tried & you don't know that. 
no not really w/chthon... 
now prove there's ONLY one cy in entire Omniverse! can you or not? & that does'nt always indicate power just because there's only 1 of them... 
you keep on going over points & are start going on with stuff that does'nt even matter about the actual Vs..  s 
seems like you actual can't provewhat you say at all & are trying to toy around it with fancy language & other bull that should'nt even be brought up
#34 Posted by Boobster (1608 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
it's unparalleled. a parallel universe means "stringed" together by the probability of time so there are similarities, but things differ by cause and effect. cyttorak's universe is unlike that. it's a whole different reality that is not paralleled or string through the other realities of marvel. that said that crimson cosmos is not by any regards related or build upon by the structure of string theory or quantum realities under the essence of multi-eternity. this is the grey area where me and kenshiroo have our differences. he calls it a pocketed reality, i call it an unparalleled reality because if it were truly a pocketed reality like lets say, mephisto's realm or asgard, he wouldn't have the power to effect other unparalleled realities like the malibu universe and the rest of the ultraverse. and if the crimson cosmos where truly pocketed, it would have a permanent spot within the multiverse, but it does not. it is outside of the multiverse, not within it. anyhow, cyttorak would defeat any version of the mortal mad jim jasper regardless jaspers' potential. mad jim jaspers is just a high class reality warper. he need a reality equal to his level of perception in order to warp reality and he does not have the perception to warp the crimson cosmos. he doesn't even know how to use magic. he is far weaker and sustainable to vulnrability than molecule man or beyonder and cyttorak has no vulnerability whatsoever. 
 
 
 @Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
merlyn the "omniversal guardian" is nothing compared to the ancient one. you of all people should know that. here, let me help you refresh your memory and ask you; can matrix-merlyn defeat shuma gorath? i believe your answer would be no. ancient one would stand a far greater chance against shuma than merlyn and mad jim jaspers combined. 
Cyttorak has never affected Malibu universe. And MJJ would kill Shuma with a snap of his fingers.
he has. if he didn't juggernaut would be plain o' cain marko with no power of any kind. shuma would eat mmj powers 1st before swatting him like a fly.
He hasn't affected the Ultraverse. Juggernaut got depowered when he entered Ultraverse, and Qune made him bleed. 
Jaspers turns Shuma into poo.
#35 Edited by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@recordkeeper said:

@Lance Bastro said:

@recordkeeper said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@recordkeeper said:

@Lance Bastro said:

@recordkeeper said:

lol, got that backwards, Cy or Shuma, hell even together are nothing to matrix merged Merlyn...MJJ at his full potential would also EASILY own both together...

 
CC is also part of Marvel Multiverse/Ominverse, not some other reality that's not connected to them at all.  seems like your makeing things up to fit how YOU view Cy, which is'nt the reality of the character...

have you forgotten how mad jim jasper was destroyed? also, how can the fundamentals of reality "warp" magic? how does a reality warper warp a concept? answer that. and by the way, my view..... stan's view.... is the reality of what i'm saying, because let me now ask this? how is the crimson cosmos an unlimited powered reality while the multiverse itself isn't truly infinite, yet you say an endless reality connected to one that is finite? why does one cyttorak out of all the omniverse have the same avatar in all multiple realities and him not being infinite? you claim that merlyn can defeat shuma and cyttorak, well... were was he when shuma pretty much devoured most of all quantum realities? were was he when nightmare kidnapped multieternity and destroyed all earth in all timelines and reality? so much for being a omniversal guardian. self proclaimed omniversal guardian if i might add. neither of the two can defeat cyttorak. they have not the comprehension to do so. not the power nor the means.
No I have'nt & that was'nt a Jaspers at his full potential which I was talking about.  It's comics,he can warp whatever he wants, does'nt matter if it's magic. Show a reality warper that has had problems warping magic & then talk.there's alot of unlimted powered realities & there still all part of the Multiverse. In fact most all Universes ar described that way. Ok PLEASE prove that cy powers a avatar in EVERY reality within Multiverse...or for that matter that  cy himself is unique in the Multiverse... Obviously merlyn does'nt show up for everything, just like all cosmic beings pertty much, hell only other Omniversal gaurdian is LT, does he show up for everything? no, very vey rearly...probable know them losers where doomed so did'nt even bother most likely... 
 it doesn't matter what potential he is because if there is no reality to warp, he can not warp reality. that is the reality HE CAN COMPREHEND AS A REALITY. keep in mind that mad jim jaspers is a human man. he has the same comprehensional level as you and i. that means he can warp a truck into 2 motorcyles and turn a cat into a small dog by using the resources of that reality. he can not turn a dog into magic or anything else into magic because 1) magic is overall extradimensional and 2) he does not have the comprehension nor perception of magic. even the living tribunal can not create his own magic out of nothing. he has to invoke it just like any other being because magic is extradimensional.   the way you are wording the term "omniversal" is a misinterpretation. if let's say, mmj wanted to create a lamborghini for every nation in the earth in all realities, he can. by the resources that reality (that he can understand) provides him, he can turn every car in every reality thoughout the omniverse into lamborghinis.  but he can not turn all the cars into real agamottos, chthons, living tribunals or anything else that is beyond his comprehension or level of thinking. he does not have the consciousnesses to do that. yes comics are comics, but this is marvel and they do apply some logic behind their stories and characters. comics for all intended purposes is sci-fi, but the "magic" is the part where science can not explain due to our level of comprehension.
I disagree cause he would of become w/Omniverse, he would be more & part of everything them (magic included)...  rest you kind of went off on stuff we where'nt even talking about & avoided a few things i said...oh well...
well mmj couldn't effect any of the extradimensional beings of the omniverse, and magic can effect him but not the other way around. was it not power of chthon and probability that effected mjj? there should be a thread of mjj vs chthon to clarify the power of the two, yet chthon is inferior to cyttorak. there is only one cyttorak in the omniverse, but many mad jim jaspers in multiple realities. 
he never tried & you don't know that. no not really w/chthon... now prove there's ONLY one cy in entire Omniverse! can you or not? & that does'nt always indicate power just because there's only 1 of them... you keep on going over points & are start going on with stuff that does'nt even matter about the actual Vs..  s seems like you actual can't provewhat you say at all & are trying to toy around it with fancy language & other bull that should'nt even be brought up
he can't try because he can not comprehend them. he can't learn them period so therefore he can't defeat them. i don't want to throw religion into this thread, but if you believe in a creator, do you think you can comprehend it or defeat it even if you did have vast reality warping powers? i wish i could explain it as simple as reality warping = 2+2=4 and magic is like 2+2 is 3 and it still being right but it is much more complicated. if cyttorak and mjj ever fought, it would not be through power alone, it would be a battle of perception and cyttorak would win 10/10. because there is only ONE crimson cosmos. that's proof enough that there is only one cyttorak. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/chthon-vs-cyttorak/401069/?page=8 
 
 
 

explaining the fraction of limitless....






#36 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
it's unparalleled. a parallel universe means "stringed" together by the probability of time so there are similarities, but things differ by cause and effect. cyttorak's universe is unlike that. it's a whole different reality that is not paralleled or string through the other realities of marvel. that said that crimson cosmos is not by any regards related or build upon by the structure of string theory or quantum realities under the essence of multi-eternity. this is the grey area where me and kenshiroo have our differences. he calls it a pocketed reality, i call it an unparalleled reality because if it were truly a pocketed reality like lets say, mephisto's realm or asgard, he wouldn't have the power to effect other unparalleled realities like the malibu universe and the rest of the ultraverse. and if the crimson cosmos where truly pocketed, it would have a permanent spot within the multiverse, but it does not. it is outside of the multiverse, not within it. anyhow, cyttorak would defeat any version of the mortal mad jim jasper regardless jaspers' potential. mad jim jaspers is just a high class reality warper. he need a reality equal to his level of perception in order to warp reality and he does not have the perception to warp the crimson cosmos. he doesn't even know how to use magic. he is far weaker and sustainable to vulnrability than molecule man or beyonder and cyttorak has no vulnerability whatsoever. 
 
 
 @Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
merlyn the "omniversal guardian" is nothing compared to the ancient one. you of all people should know that. here, let me help you refresh your memory and ask you; can matrix-merlyn defeat shuma gorath? i believe your answer would be no. ancient one would stand a far greater chance against shuma than merlyn and mad jim jaspers combined. 
Cyttorak has never affected Malibu universe. And MJJ would kill Shuma with a snap of his fingers.
he has. if he didn't juggernaut would be plain o' cain marko with no power of any kind. shuma would eat mmj powers 1st before swatting him like a fly.
He hasn't affected the Ultraverse. Juggernaut got depowered when he entered Ultraverse, and Qune made him bleed.  Jaspers turns Shuma into poo.
he would have been plain old cain marko.
#37 Posted by Boobster (1608 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
it's unparalleled. a parallel universe means "stringed" together by the probability of time so there are similarities, but things differ by cause and effect. cyttorak's universe is unlike that. it's a whole different reality that is not paralleled or string through the other realities of marvel. that said that crimson cosmos is not by any regards related or build upon by the structure of string theory or quantum realities under the essence of multi-eternity. this is the grey area where me and kenshiroo have our differences. he calls it a pocketed reality, i call it an unparalleled reality because if it were truly a pocketed reality like lets say, mephisto's realm or asgard, he wouldn't have the power to effect other unparalleled realities like the malibu universe and the rest of the ultraverse. and if the crimson cosmos where truly pocketed, it would have a permanent spot within the multiverse, but it does not. it is outside of the multiverse, not within it. anyhow, cyttorak would defeat any version of the mortal mad jim jasper regardless jaspers' potential. mad jim jaspers is just a high class reality warper. he need a reality equal to his level of perception in order to warp reality and he does not have the perception to warp the crimson cosmos. he doesn't even know how to use magic. he is far weaker and sustainable to vulnrability than molecule man or beyonder and cyttorak has no vulnerability whatsoever. 
 
 
 @Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
merlyn the "omniversal guardian" is nothing compared to the ancient one. you of all people should know that. here, let me help you refresh your memory and ask you; can matrix-merlyn defeat shuma gorath? i believe your answer would be no. ancient one would stand a far greater chance against shuma than merlyn and mad jim jaspers combined. 
Cyttorak has never affected Malibu universe. And MJJ would kill Shuma with a snap of his fingers.
he has. if he didn't juggernaut would be plain o' cain marko with no power of any kind. shuma would eat mmj powers 1st before swatting him like a fly.
He hasn't affected the Ultraverse. Juggernaut got depowered when he entered Ultraverse, and Qune made him bleed.  Jaspers turns Shuma into poo.
he would have been plain old cain marko.
Cyttorak hasn't affected anything in Ultraverse and Juggernaut got hurt by Qune.
#38 Posted by Thepowercosmic (940 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim O mniversal tread 

#39 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
it's unparalleled. a parallel universe means "stringed" together by the probability of time so there are similarities, but things differ by cause and effect. cyttorak's universe is unlike that. it's a whole different reality that is not paralleled or string through the other realities of marvel. that said that crimson cosmos is not by any regards related or build upon by the structure of string theory or quantum realities under the essence of multi-eternity. this is the grey area where me and kenshiroo have our differences. he calls it a pocketed reality, i call it an unparalleled reality because if it were truly a pocketed reality like lets say, mephisto's realm or asgard, he wouldn't have the power to effect other unparalleled realities like the malibu universe and the rest of the ultraverse. and if the crimson cosmos where truly pocketed, it would have a permanent spot within the multiverse, but it does not. it is outside of the multiverse, not within it. anyhow, cyttorak would defeat any version of the mortal mad jim jasper regardless jaspers' potential. mad jim jaspers is just a high class reality warper. he need a reality equal to his level of perception in order to warp reality and he does not have the perception to warp the crimson cosmos. he doesn't even know how to use magic. he is far weaker and sustainable to vulnrability than molecule man or beyonder and cyttorak has no vulnerability whatsoever. 
 
 
 @Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
merlyn the "omniversal guardian" is nothing compared to the ancient one. you of all people should know that. here, let me help you refresh your memory and ask you; can matrix-merlyn defeat shuma gorath? i believe your answer would be no. ancient one would stand a far greater chance against shuma than merlyn and mad jim jaspers combined. 
Cyttorak has never affected Malibu universe. And MJJ would kill Shuma with a snap of his fingers.
he has. if he didn't juggernaut would be plain o' cain marko with no power of any kind. shuma would eat mmj powers 1st before swatting him like a fly.
He hasn't affected the Ultraverse. Juggernaut got depowered when he entered Ultraverse, and Qune made him bleed.  Jaspers turns Shuma into poo.
he would have been plain old cain marko.
Cyttorak hasn't affected anything in Ultraverse and Juggernaut got hurt by Qune.
  
if he didn't effect the ultraverse then juggernaut would be cain marko. period. that how the contract works. juggernaut was still pretty much the power house as he was in marvel. you know this, and you also know the qune who at full power and raged only slashed off the abdominal part of the armor. yes, juggernaut felt it, but he also felt the pain when d'spayre turned him into bone, but did it stop him the answer is no. qune's magic was still no match for even a fractioned powered juggernaut. 
#40 Posted by Boobster (1608 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
@Lance Bastro said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Prince CortSether: Last time I checked Cyttorak doesn't care about the Omniverse because it is just a marble under his bed.
Cyttorak's cosmos is a mere pocket dimension within Marvel. It's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 
It's a parallel universe.
it's unparalleled. a parallel universe means "stringed" together by the probability of time so there are similarities, but things differ by cause and effect. cyttorak's universe is unlike that. it's a whole different reality that is not paralleled or string through the other realities of marvel. that said that crimson cosmos is not by any regards related or build upon by the structure of string theory or quantum realities under the essence of multi-eternity. this is the grey area where me and kenshiroo have our differences. he calls it a pocketed reality, i call it an unparalleled reality because if it were truly a pocketed reality like lets say, mephisto's realm or asgard, he wouldn't have the power to effect other unparalleled realities like the malibu universe and the rest of the ultraverse. and if the crimson cosmos where truly pocketed, it would have a permanent spot within the multiverse, but it does not. it is outside of the multiverse, not within it. anyhow, cyttorak would defeat any version of the mortal mad jim jasper regardless jaspers' potential. mad jim jaspers is just a high class reality warper. he need a reality equal to his level of perception in order to warp reality and he does not have the perception to warp the crimson cosmos. he doesn't even know how to use magic. he is far weaker and sustainable to vulnrability than molecule man or beyonder and cyttorak has no vulnerability whatsoever. 
 
 
 @Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
merlyn the "omniversal guardian" is nothing compared to the ancient one. you of all people should know that. here, let me help you refresh your memory and ask you; can matrix-merlyn defeat shuma gorath? i believe your answer would be no. ancient one would stand a far greater chance against shuma than merlyn and mad jim jaspers combined. 
Cyttorak has never affected Malibu universe. And MJJ would kill Shuma with a snap of his fingers.
he has. if he didn't juggernaut would be plain o' cain marko with no power of any kind. shuma would eat mmj powers 1st before swatting him like a fly.
He hasn't affected the Ultraverse. Juggernaut got depowered when he entered Ultraverse, and Qune made him bleed.  Jaspers turns Shuma into poo.
he would have been plain old cain marko.
Cyttorak hasn't affected anything in Ultraverse and Juggernaut got hurt by Qune.
  if he didn't effect the ultraverse then juggernaut would be cain marko. period. that how the contract works. juggernaut was still pretty much the power house as he was in marvel. you know this, and you also know the qune who at full power and raged only slashed off the abdominal part of the armor. yes, juggernaut felt it, but he also felt the pain when d'spayre turned him into bone, but did it stop him the answer is no. qune's magic was still no match for even a fractioned powered juggernaut. 
He didn't affect the Ultraverse. Period. In fact his power was diminishing from Juggernaut, so everything you said about Cyttorak's unparelled reality is nothing more than a bunch of lie.
Jerald Dragoon was not magic, stop making things up.
#41 Edited by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio

geez, I don't need you to explain anything! I need you to answer the points that I brought up! you obviously can't so instead starts with your ramblings... 
so pertty much proves you can'nt prove must of what you say about cy AT ALL
#42 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@recordkeeper said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn).
your scan does'nt prove that at all, sorry you don' understand that..

Hey, you can't be right all the time. Learn to live with a little disappointment. Or better yet, learn from your mistakes so you don't make any more in the future ;P 
 
@higher_evolutionary said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn). It makes MJJ an omniversal power by default.
noooooooooooooooooooo  it took the destruction of the 238 reality to beat mjj right meryln >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>universe buster it was just a plot device and back then writer didnt understand what an omniverse means or proper scaling matrix merlyn should blink 238 mjj and beat 616 mjj without too much trouble but he was a plot device to pump up the threat of MJJ
The Fury was a plot device, Matrix-Merlyn was shown to be significantly weaker than either version of Jaspers on panel. Matrix-Merlyn was an omniversal power yet MJJ was more powerful than him, makes him omniversal by default. If MJJ was a mere universal/multiversal power then an omniversal power should have gotten rid of him, but it didn't. 
#43 Posted by Thepowercosmic (940 posts) - - Show Bio
and i think this was he weak one not MJJ from 616 
#44 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@Boobster said:
He didn't affect the Ultraverse. Period. In fact his power was diminishing from Juggernaut, so everything you said about Cyttorak's unparelled reality is nothing more than a bunch of lie.
Jerald Dragoon was not magic, stop making things up. 
 
 lol, have you even read the comic. jerald was a master martial artist who was corrupted by evil magically and transformed into qune. he's as magical as liu kang transforming into a dragon. your wikipeadia-ing has less credibility than my "lies". if cyttorak power couldn't reach the ultraverse there would be no such thing as the juggernaut. cain would have no powers, no strength, no durability what so ever. he would just be a human with all human vulnerabilities. and you are forgetting the real fact about his power drop. it's the same reason when he joined excalibur 
#45 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@recordkeeper said:
geez, I don't need you to explain anything! I need you to answer the points that I brought up! you obviously can't so instead starts with your ramblings... so pertty much proves you can'nt prove must of what you say about cy AT ALL
i did answer your points, but you've ignored it. so much for your open mind.
#46 Posted by Boobster (1608 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@Boobster said:
He didn't affect the Ultraverse. Period. In fact his power was diminishing from Juggernaut, so everything you said about Cyttorak's unparelled reality is nothing more than a bunch of lie.
Jerald Dragoon was not magic, stop making things up. 
  lol, have you even read the comic. jerald was a master martial artist who was corrupted by evil magically and transformed into qune. he's as magical as liu kang transforming into a dragon. your wikipeadia-ing has less credibility than my "lies". if cyttorak power couldn't reach the ultraverse there would be no such thing as the juggernaut. cain would have no powers, no strength, no durability what so ever. he would just be a human with all human vulnerabilities. and you are forgetting the real fact about his power drop. it's the same reason when he joined excalibur 
I just posted you a scan of Juggernaut being cut and bleed by Qune, it's from All New Exiles #1, and Jerald Dragoon has nothing to do with magic, unless you can prove he has a magical origin.  Talk about Wikipedia as much as you want, I'm not using it anyway.
I didn't say his power couldn't reach the Ultraverse, learn how to read, his power was diminishing as long as Juggernaut was in the Ultraverse. You said Cyttorak affected the Ultraverse, he never did, so stop making things up.
#47 Posted by alexandrinus (428 posts) - - Show Bio

MJJ has incredible power. But in Cyttorak own realm I don't think he would be able to win. Cyttorak is said to be omnipotent in his own realm (of course, in Marvel comics saying someone or something is omnipotent, or even a character claiming to be such is just to state that they are very powerfull in a scale that the human mind cannot comprehend, not that they are truly omnipotent). It's like claiming that the crimson Cosmos is Infinite whereas infine is actually a measurable number in Marvel.  
 
So even though Cyttorak is powefull (to me enough to defeat MJJ in his own realm) he is not the "power" Lance Bastro is claiming. And his dimension/universe is just a parallel dimension linked to all others (if not he wouldn't be able to affect the other dimensions/universes) even though a unique one. 
#48 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thepowercosmic said:
and i think this was he weak one not MJJ from 616

no he's talking about 616 MJJ, & the Omiverse was in peril with Jaspers but he still was'nt a Omniversal Power& would of only become such AFTER Jaspers warp
#49 Posted by recordkeeper (374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@recordkeeper said:
ah, you still have'nt proven anything, sorry...  MJJ would of only become Omniversal AFTER his Jaspers wap was completed, this is complete Fact. & MJJ showed NOTHING contridicting that...
Yeah, I haven't proven anything, other than the fact that a weaker version of MJJ was more powerful than a proven omniversal power (Matrix-Merlyn).
your scan does'nt prove that at all, sorry you don' understand that..

Hey, you can't be right all the time. Learn to live with a little disappointment. Or better yet, learn from your mistakes so you don't make any more in the future ;P 
 


I'm right most of the time here INCLUDED! Sorry you can't understand your own pic you posted! ALL that is happening there is the Reality storm is playing such havok w.Time & Space that porting someoneout was impossible!  How you come to your conclusion from THAT is beyond me... & take yourown advice on this one...
#50 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio

The mortal Jaspers dies with relative ease. He is not above PR Molecule Man and Beyonder.