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#1 Posted by redbull (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

Fight to all out death. Takes place in Cyttorak's Realm. Fight can also take place in 616 if you'd like, but speculate on both.

#2 Posted by Hyperlight (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

as in the dreaming celestial? tiamut wins pretty easily

#3 Posted by Achilles. (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

tiamut

#4 Posted by fallenangel5991 (652 posts) - - Show Bio

Tiamut the Dreaming Celestial? This is curbstomp in Tiamut's favour.

#5 Posted by Lance Bastro (5168 posts) - - Show Bio

in cyttoirak's realm? i don't think so, cyttorak solos

#6 Posted by fallenangel5991 (652 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah...Cyttorak could possibly take out a normal Celestial, but there is no way he is taking out the strongest Celestial of them all.

#7 Posted by GamorasBigDaddy (2962 posts) - - Show Bio

current Tiamut owns EASILY!!!  
 
Hell even before his Ascension by Fulcrum(TOAA) he probable still takes it..
#8 Posted by Lance Bastro (5168 posts) - - Show Bio
@GamorasBigDaddy said:

" current Tiamut owns EASILY!!!   Hell even before his Ascension by Fulcrum(TOAA) he probable still takes it.. "

fulcrum is the "one above all" of celestials, but not by means TOAA, which ONLY dr. doom was able to summon and... own. 
 
  
    
 
  
  
 
  

  
#9 Posted by fallenangel5991 (652 posts) - - Show Bio

where are those scans from?

#10 Posted by GamorasBigDaddy (2962 posts) - - Show Bio

No, The Fulcrum is'nt the TOAA-Celestial!  that's totally wrong... 
 
Fulcrum was shown as the TRUE TOAA (God)! 
#11 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6145 posts) - - Show Bio
@GamorasBigDaddy said:
" No, The Fulcrum is'nt the TOAA-Celestial!  that's totally wrong...  Fulcrum was shown as the TRUE TOAA (God)!  "
Would be nice to see the proof of your statement. With pictures. With a narration.
#12 Posted by GamorasBigDaddy (2962 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @GamorasBigDaddy said:
" No, The Fulcrum is'nt the TOAA-Celestial!  that's totally wrong...  Fulcrum was shown as the TRUE TOAA (God)!  "
Would be nice to see the proof of your statement. With pictures. With a narration. "

If you've read the book you would know,but it talks about the Fulrum being the creator of life & the Ultimate appealing force the watcher could ammend to. The watcher & Celestial both consider him the Creator & obey his word... 
 
anyway who read book should be able to back this up... 
maybe someone will have scans...
#13 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6145 posts) - - Show Bio
@GamorasBigDaddy: And until I see a scan with a confirmation of Fulcrum being TOAA, this is just your assumption and I don't buy it.
#14 Posted by Cypher's Gambit (2314 posts) - - Show Bio
@GamorasBigDaddy said:
" @TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @GamorasBigDaddy said:
" No, The Fulcrum is'nt the TOAA-Celestial!  that's totally wrong...  Fulcrum was shown as the TRUE TOAA (God)!  "
Would be nice to see the proof of your statement. With pictures. With a narration. "
If you've read the book you would know,but it talks about the Fulrum being the creator of life & the Ultimate appealing force the watcher could ammend to. The watcher & Celestial both consider him the Creator & obey his word...  anyway who read book should be able to back this up... maybe someone will have scans... "
That can't be totally true. How can there be more than one creator of the universe? The Watchers shouldn't even know who TOAA is anyway. It's speculation on their part.
#15 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos.

#16 Posted by Lance Bastro (5168 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jedisupermaster said:
" Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos. "
pretty much.
#17 Posted by Lance Bastro (5168 posts) - - Show Bio

tiamut will need all the help he can from the rest of the celestiels to push back cyttorak. but cyttorak can always pull them with him so that they will have pretty much 0 chance inside the crimson universe.

#18 Posted by DrTyrannical (1299 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
" @Jedisupermaster said:
" Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos. "
pretty much. "
This is completely wrong. What feats does he have inside the CC?
#19 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1756 posts) - - Show Bio
@DrTyrannical said:
" @Lance Bastro said:
" @Jedisupermaster said:
" Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos. "
pretty much. "
This is completely wrong. What feats does he have inside the CC? "
He is the ruler of Crimson Cosmos. Also The Juggernaut who have only very little part of Cyttoraks powers was so durable that even Oblivion wasnt be able to hurt him. So Cyttorak even within his realm is a very powerfull being. I think Cyttorak can beat Tiamut in any place!
#20 Posted by DrTyrannical (1299 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jedisupermaster said:
" @DrTyrannical said:
" @Lance Bastro said:
" @Jedisupermaster said:
" Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos. "
pretty much. "
This is completely wrong. What feats does he have inside the CC? "
He is the ruler of Crimson Cosmos. Also The Juggernaut who have only very little part of Cyttoraks powers was so durable that even Oblivion wasnt be able to hurt him. So Cyttorak even within his realm is a very powerfull being. I think Cyttorak can beat Tiamut in any place! "
That does not answer my question.
#21 Posted by Lance Bastro (5168 posts) - - Show Bio
@DrTyrannical said:
" @Lance Bastro said:
" @Jedisupermaster said:
" Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos. "
pretty much. "
This is completely wrong. What feats does he have inside the CC? "
belittled the sorcerer supreme which stalemated the living tribunal and negated the infinity gauntlet twice.
#22 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

Actuely, celestials are not very powerfull cosmic entities. And Cyttorak is above all celestials.

#23 Posted by DrTyrannical (1299 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jedisupermaster said:
" Actuely, celestials are not very powerfull cosmic entities. And Cyttorak is above all celestials. "
lol. I disagree completely. 
 
@Lance Bastro said:
" @DrTyrannical said:
" @Lance Bastro said:
" @Jedisupermaster said:
" Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos. "
pretty much. "
This is completely wrong. What feats does he have inside the CC? "
belittled the sorcerer supreme which stalemated the living tribunal and negated the infinity gauntlet twice. "
Cyttorak negated the IG or Strange did?
#24 Posted by TheFallenOne (1122 posts) - - Show Bio
@DrTyrannical:
Revisit the thread Pick 3 to defeat Cyttorak and look at the scans of Cyttorak fighting Watoom, Ikon, Seraphim and Vishanti for the claim od Strange,  that Lance Bastro and Kenshiroo posted. That was out of Crimson Cosmos. You are confusing the 2 aspects of Cyttorak. The Violent - alien looking one that empowers the Juggernaut was trapped in Ruby(he was freed from his magical prison in Cap Britain and MI13). The one that imprisoned Nova and others resist in CC (the only place he takes care of). The fact is that Handbook has officially stated that there are 2 aspects of him (the one that I mentioned), but in the issue in which he traps Nova and others he states that he takes the look of a man so it's a might-be indication that the man-lookig form isn't his true form, but simply a form he takes for mortal to remain sane (like Vishanti do).  
Also there is one interesting fact also. When the origin of the Temple of Cyttorak has been told it was stated that the Violent Aspect is actually his most destructive aspect (so this is basicly indication that he has at least 3 aspects). Anyway it stays on Marvel to tell the origin of Cyttorak. 
 
But one thing is evident CC for sure isn't part of 616. Since in Infinity War when Strange and Nova stated that they are on the mission to stop the Magus (616 threat) Cyttorak stated that he is not interested, so Magus with IG was not threat to him. There is also another posibility (in this one CC is part of 616) and that is that it might be indication that Cyttorak is more powerfull than IG user :-)  
#25 Posted by Perfect Cell (3719 posts) - - Show Bio
@DrTyrannical said:

" @Jedisupermaster said:

" Actuely, celestials are not very powerfull cosmic entities. And Cyttorak is above all celestials. "
lol. I disagree completely. 
 
@Lance Bastro said:
" @DrTyrannical said:
" @Lance Bastro said:
" @Jedisupermaster said:
" Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos. "
pretty much. "
This is completely wrong. What feats does he have inside the CC? "
belittled the sorcerer supreme which stalemated the living tribunal and negated the infinity gauntlet twice. "
Cyttorak negated the IG or Strange did? "
If I remember correctly, Strange did not negate the Gauntlet a whole. He negated each of the Infinite Gems separately. 
 
 
  
@Jedisupermaster said:

" Actuely, celestials are not very powerfull cosmic entities. And Cyttorak is above all celestials. "


I have to agree, because it took the ENTIRE RACE of Celestiels to defeat Super Ego. Technically, they didn't even defeat Ego. They annoyed him to the point where he just left. 
 
    
 
In my opinion, the most powerful Celestial or I should say; the Celestial with the highest priority is Scathan.  Cyttorak has a good chance facing Taimut alone.
#26 Posted by giantarms (259 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#27 Posted by TheGodKiller (302 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheJuggernautpunch:

The blue guy is Fulcrum aka Jack the Bartender aka Jack Kirby aka TOAA.

#28 Posted by cosmic_reign (377 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jedisupermaster said:

@DrTyrannical said:
" @Lance Bastro said:
" @Jedisupermaster said:
" Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos. "
pretty much. "
This is completely wrong. What feats does he have inside the CC? "
He is the ruler of Crimson Cosmos. Also The Juggernaut who have only very little part of Cyttoraks powers was so durable that even Oblivion wasnt be able to hurt him. So Cyttorak even within his realm is a very powerfull being. I think Cyttorak can beat Tiamut in any place!

the Crimson Cosmos gets consumed with Cyttorak and anything else within it.

#29 Posted by Tiamut (121 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGodKillersaid:

@TheJuggernautpunch:

The blue guy is Fulcrum aka Jack the Bartender aka Jack Kirby aka TOAA.

#30 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio

He isn't TOAA, it is only a speculation. And this speculation is against logic.
 
What we do know about The Fulcrum? We do know that he is more powerfull than Watchers, Celestials and The Horde combined (from whole Multiverse). Which puts him above Universal level easily, possibly close to Multiversal one. Tiamut, or rather Tiamut from timeline they've created (since Tiamut is also present in current Earth-616) is equal in power to him, so he also is multiversal level threat. Ergo, he wins this and Odin is non factor.

#31 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_reign said:

@Jedisupermaster said:

@DrTyrannical said:
" @Lance Bastro said:
" @Jedisupermaster said:
" Cyttorak solos because this battle can be in Crimson Cosmos. "
pretty much. "
This is completely wrong. What feats does he have inside the CC? "
He is the ruler of Crimson Cosmos. Also The Juggernaut who have only very little part of Cyttoraks powers was so durable that even Oblivion wasnt be able to hurt him. So Cyttorak even within his realm is a very powerfull being. I think Cyttorak can beat Tiamut in any place!

the Crimson Cosmos gets consumed with Cyttorak and anything else within it.

Jedi is right, Taimut can't win.

#32 Posted by henryarguelles5 (375 posts) - - Show Bio

In 616, The tag team wins, with Odin not even being needed. In Cyttorak's realm, he wins. The Principalities have been shown to be omnipotent in their own realms - no reason why Cyttorak shouldn't win in his own.

#33 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

The proof is that no Celestial has ever affected or has ever entered the extradimensional planes. Cyttorak has. He tried to take over the entire omniverse, where the Celestials only like to play around inside a small universe.

#34 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

The proof is that no Celestial has ever affected or has ever entered the extradimensional planes. Cyttorak has. He tried to take over the entire omniverse, where the Celestials only like to play around inside a small universe.

Tiamut is more than universal level being, possibly multiversal. What feats proves that Cyttorak is on this level? Just living outside of multiverse (where was it stated BTW?) doesn't mean that You're that powerfull.
#35 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

The proof is that no Celestial has ever affected or has ever entered the extradimensional planes. Cyttorak has. He tried to take over the entire omniverse, where the Celestials only like to play around inside a small universe.

Tiamut is more than universal level being, possibly multiversal. What feats proves that Cyttorak is on this level? Just living outside of multiverse (where was it stated BTW?) doesn't mean that You're that powerfull.

It doesn't matter if Taimut is multiversal, he can only affect physical space and the objects in it. The biggest and most vital war in Marvel History was the War of the Seven Spheres (an omniversal war). Cyttorak was in that war and the Celestials were not. The Celestials were getting beat down by Thanos during Infinity Gauntlet saga which was a tiny war Cyttorak could care less of because the Seven Sphere War was bigger.

#36 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

The proof is that no Celestial has ever affected or has ever entered the extradimensional planes. Cyttorak has. He tried to take over the entire omniverse, where the Celestials only like to play around inside a small universe.

Tiamut is more than universal level being, possibly multiversal. What feats proves that Cyttorak is on this level? Just living outside of multiverse (where was it stated BTW?) doesn't mean that You're that powerfull.

It doesn't matter if Taimut is multiversal, he can only affect physical space and the objects in it. The biggest and most vital war in Marvel History was the War of the Seven Spheres (an omniversal war). Cyttorak was in that war and the Celestials were not. The Celestials were getting beat down by Thanos during Infinity Gauntlet saga which was a tiny war Cyttorak could care less of because the Seven Sphere War was bigger.

... and off panel one. We can't use it for anything since we know close to nothing about it. 
Cyttorak doesn't have even one feat IIRC, in real universe. Currently he is even portrayted as a Hell Lord acctually. 
 
And where it was even stated that it was even a multiversal level war?
#37 Edited by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

The proof is that no Celestial has ever affected or has ever entered the extradimensional planes. Cyttorak has. He tried to take over the entire omniverse, where the Celestials only like to play around inside a small universe.

Tiamut is more than universal level being, possibly multiversal. What feats proves that Cyttorak is on this level? Just living outside of multiverse (where was it stated BTW?) doesn't mean that You're that powerfull.

It doesn't matter if Taimut is multiversal, he can only affect physical space and the objects in it. The biggest and most vital war in Marvel History was the War of the Seven Spheres (an omniversal war). Cyttorak was in that war and the Celestials were not. The Celestials were getting beat down by Thanos during Infinity Gauntlet saga which was a tiny war Cyttorak could care less of because the Seven Sphere War was bigger.

... and off panel one. We can't use it for anything since we know close to nothing about it. Cyttorak doesn't have even one feat IIRC, in real universe. Currently he is even portrayted as a Hell Lord acctually. And where it was even stated that it was even a multiversal level war?

Try to find Seven Sphere War. It was a war beyond the realm of Eternity (aka the multiverse). So the war was so big, it was like World War II in comparison to ants having a war with termites in the island of Guam during the same time frame. Cyttorak does have feats inside of the multiverse/universe.

  1. Steve used the Gem to warp reality
  2. D'Spayre used the gem to warp reality (the universe)
  3. Juggernaut punched holes and shattered some realities

And all were only using FRACTIONS of 12% of Cyttorak's destructive aspect.

Cyttorak is both God and Demon, he uses different aspects of himself in reflection of the person who perceives him. Let's say if a girl who is in-love enters the Crimson Cosmos, Cyttorak would look like a Fairy God Mother..... Or if a Priest enters the Crimson Cosmos, Cyttorak would take the form of light.... For people who enters with hate, Cyttorak appears like a demon....

#38 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

The proof is that no Celestial has ever affected or has ever entered the extradimensional planes. Cyttorak has. He tried to take over the entire omniverse, where the Celestials only like to play around inside a small universe.

Tiamut is more than universal level being, possibly multiversal. What feats proves that Cyttorak is on this level? Just living outside of multiverse (where was it stated BTW?) doesn't mean that You're that powerfull.

It doesn't matter if Taimut is multiversal, he can only affect physical space and the objects in it. The biggest and most vital war in Marvel History was the War of the Seven Spheres (an omniversal war). Cyttorak was in that war and the Celestials were not. The Celestials were getting beat down by Thanos during Infinity Gauntlet saga which was a tiny war Cyttorak could care less of because the Seven Sphere War was bigger.

... and off panel one. We can't use it for anything since we know close to nothing about it. Cyttorak doesn't have even one feat IIRC, in real universe. Currently he is even portrayted as a Hell Lord acctually. And where it was even stated that it was even a multiversal level war?

Try to find Seven Sphere War. It was a war beyond the realm of Eternity (aka the multiverse). So the war was so big, it was like World War II in comparison to ants having a war with termites in the island of Guam during the same time frame. Cyttorak does have feats inside of the multiverse/universe.

  1. Steve used the Gem to warp reality
  2. D'Spayre used the gem to warp reality (the universe)
  3. Juggernaut punched holes and shattered some realities

And all were only using FRACTIONS of 12% of Cyttorak's destructive aspect.

Cyttorak is both God and Demon, he uses different aspects of himself in reflection of the person who perceives him. Let's say if a girl who is in-love enters the Crimson Cosmos, Cyttorak would look like a Fairy God Mother..... Or if a Priest enters the Crimson Cosmos, Cyttorak would take the form of light.... For people who enters with hate, Cyttorak appears like a demon....

So where was it actually shown? If it wasn't, how do You want to use it as a prove of anything? A specially that we're talking about magic (in which anything is possible)... 
1.On which scale? Where has it happened?
2.He by himself is a powerfull being, so I would be carefull with this.
3.As did Black Bolt. IMO it is just another way of creating portal. 
 
I still don't see why he should be considered as a universal level threat outside of his realm, let alone multiversal one.
#39 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

The proof is that no Celestial has ever affected or has ever entered the extradimensional planes. Cyttorak has. He tried to take over the entire omniverse, where the Celestials only like to play around inside a small universe.

Tiamut is more than universal level being, possibly multiversal. What feats proves that Cyttorak is on this level? Just living outside of multiverse (where was it stated BTW?) doesn't mean that You're that powerfull.

It doesn't matter if Taimut is multiversal, he can only affect physical space and the objects in it. The biggest and most vital war in Marvel History was the War of the Seven Spheres (an omniversal war). Cyttorak was in that war and the Celestials were not. The Celestials were getting beat down by Thanos during Infinity Gauntlet saga which was a tiny war Cyttorak could care less of because the Seven Sphere War was bigger.

... and off panel one. We can't use it for anything since we know close to nothing about it. Cyttorak doesn't have even one feat IIRC, in real universe. Currently he is even portrayted as a Hell Lord acctually. And where it was even stated that it was even a multiversal level war?

Try to find Seven Sphere War. It was a war beyond the realm of Eternity (aka the multiverse). So the war was so big, it was like World War II in comparison to ants having a war with termites in the island of Guam during the same time frame. Cyttorak does have feats inside of the multiverse/universe.

  1. Steve used the Gem to warp reality
  2. D'Spayre used the gem to warp reality (the universe)
  3. Juggernaut punched holes and shattered some realities

And all were only using FRACTIONS of 12% of Cyttorak's destructive aspect.

Cyttorak is both God and Demon, he uses different aspects of himself in reflection of the person who perceives him. Let's say if a girl who is in-love enters the Crimson Cosmos, Cyttorak would look like a Fairy God Mother..... Or if a Priest enters the Crimson Cosmos, Cyttorak would take the form of light.... For people who enters with hate, Cyttorak appears like a demon....

So where was it actually shown? If it wasn't, how do You want to use it as a prove of anything? A specially that we're talking about magic (in which anything is possible)... 1.On which scale? Where has it happened? 2.He by himself is a powerfull being, so I would be carefull with this. 3.As did Black Bolt. IMO it is just another way of creating portal. I still don't see why he should be considered as a universal level threat outside of his realm, let alone multiversal one.

Go to the Vishanti vs Celestial thread where Fondofpacman replied to you and I replied with the answer:

Compare the Vishanti's power to that of Slorioth and then compare that to Cyttorak with both the Vishanti & Slorioth were below in status of. The Vishanti didn't dare to fight Cyttorak and turned around to pick on Slorioth who both Vishanti and Slorioth were powerful enough to destroy the multiverse. Cyttorak was left battling everyone else inside the Omniverse.

This Bio right here states Cyttorak as "Would be Conquer"

He was "Would Be Conquer" because he almost won the Seven Sphere War of the entire Omniverse. Everyone had to fight against him until there was a mutual stalemate. Everything that was happening in this war was just too big for the multiverse to comprehend. Eternity is considered to be one of the smaller spheres and the tiny Infinity War was nothing but speck of dust compared to the entities that participated in the Seven Sphere War.

To reply to your 1,2,3:

  1. Steve was just a boy who happened to come across the Gem of Cyttorak. He was warping reality in a planetary level, but he was just a kid with little understanding. His wishes were only planetary. Like toys, hearing peoples thoughts etc...
  2. Despayre is powerful, but not as powerful to achieve his long time goal. His father (Dweller of Darkness) tried to attempt sending the entire universe into oblivion and failed because of the Phoenix Force. However, D'spayre tried to duplicate that attempted using the Juggernaut as a channeling device, and used the power of the 12% Gem to again, send the entire universe into oblivion. Therefore, D'Spayre was amped using Cyttorak's powers.
  3. Not like Blackbolt... Black Bolt was opening portals.... Trion Juggernaut was punching holes that were actually critically wreaking multiple universes. He was destroying space, time and reality. Trion Juggernaut was litterally walking around the multiverse looking for the Trion.
#40 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@czarny_samael666 said:


Go to the Vishanti vs Celestial thread where Fondofpacman replied to you and I replied with the answer:

Compare the Vishanti's power to that of Slorioth and then compare that to Cyttorak with both the Vishanti & Slorioth were below in status of. The Vishanti didn't dare to fight Cyttorak and turned around to pick on Slorioth who both Vishanti and Slorioth were powerful enough to destroy the multiverse. Cyttorak was left battling everyone else inside the Omniverse.

This Bio right here states Cyttorak as "Would be Conquer"


He was "Would Be Conquer" because he almost won the Seven Sphere War of the entire Omniverse. Everyone had to fight against him until there was a mutual stalemate. Everything that was happening in this war was just too big for the multiverse to comprehend. Eternity is considered to be one of the smaller spheres and the tiny Infinity War was nothing but speck of dust compared to the entities that participated in the Seven Sphere War.

To reply to your 1,2,3:

  1. Steve was just a boy who happened to come across the Gem of Cyttorak. He was warping reality in a planetary level, but he was just a kid with little understanding. His wishes were only planetary. Like toys, hearing peoples thoughts etc...
  2. Despayre is powerful, but not as powerful to achieve his long time goal. His father (Dweller of Darkness) tried to attempt sending the entire universe into oblivion and failed because of the Phoenix Force. However, D'spayre tried to duplicate that attempted using the Juggernaut as a channeling device, and used the power of the 12% Gem to again, send the entire universe into oblivion. Therefore, D'Spayre was amped using Cyttorak's powers.
  3. Not like Blackbolt... Black Bolt was opening portals.... Trion Juggernaut was punching holes that were actually critically wreaking multiple universes. He was destroying space, time and reality. Trion Juggernaut was litterally walking around the multiverse looking for the Trion.
0.Point is: Bioses, wiki, hanbooks aren't evidence. And titles? Seriosuly? And again - we know nothing about this war. Besides, You don't know in which circumstances he was able to hold Vishanti. 
1.You're talking about this kid who has CG for some time? Ok, I will try to find it on my own.
2.Point was that combining two powerfull objects Your power raises drastiacally. Blood Axe by it self is just good. Thunderstrike - similar. Together their power were at least on Mjolnir's level. Similar when Maelstrom tried to destroy Universe.
3.Black Bolt screamed and he made a hole in reality. And this is not a measurable feat at all.
#41 Posted by AKA_TERMINATOR (335 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Over Kill

#42 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Go to the Vishanti vs Celestial thread where Fondofpacman replied to you and I replied with the answer:

Compare the Vishanti's power to that of Slorioth and then compare that to Cyttorak with both the Vishanti & Slorioth were below in status of. The Vishanti didn't dare to fight Cyttorak and turned around to pick on Slorioth who both Vishanti and Slorioth were powerful enough to destroy the multiverse. Cyttorak was left battling everyone else inside the Omniverse.

This Bio right here states Cyttorak as "Would be Conquer"


He was "Would Be Conquer" because he almost won the Seven Sphere War of the entire Omniverse. Everyone had to fight against him until there was a mutual stalemate. Everything that was happening in this war was just too big for the multiverse to comprehend. Eternity is considered to be one of the smaller spheres and the tiny Infinity War was nothing but speck of dust compared to the entities that participated in the Seven Sphere War.

To reply to your 1,2,3:

  1. Steve was just a boy who happened to come across the Gem of Cyttorak. He was warping reality in a planetary level, but he was just a kid with little understanding. His wishes were only planetary. Like toys, hearing peoples thoughts etc...
  2. Despayre is powerful, but not as powerful to achieve his long time goal. His father (Dweller of Darkness) tried to attempt sending the entire universe into oblivion and failed because of the Phoenix Force. However, D'spayre tried to duplicate that attempted using the Juggernaut as a channeling device, and used the power of the 12% Gem to again, send the entire universe into oblivion. Therefore, D'Spayre was amped using Cyttorak's powers.
  3. Not like Blackbolt... Black Bolt was opening portals.... Trion Juggernaut was punching holes that were actually critically wreaking multiple universes. He was destroying space, time and reality. Trion Juggernaut was litterally walking around the multiverse looking for the Trion.
0.Point is: Bioses, wiki, hanbooks aren't evidence. And titles? Seriosuly? And again - we know nothing about this war. Besides, You don't know in which circumstances he was able to hold Vishanti. 1.You're talking about this kid who has CG for some time? Ok, I will try to find it on my own.2.Point was that combining two powerfull objects Your power raises drastiacally. Blood Axe by it self is just good. Thunderstrike - similar. Together their power were at least on Mjolnir's level. Similar when Maelstrom tried to destroy Universe. 3.Black Bolt screamed and he made a hole in reality. And this is not a measurable feat at all.

0: I didn't get that off wiki, They are stated by: "The Vishanti", "The Ancient One", and "Dr. Strange.... I read the War of the Seven Sphere Arc. The Vishanti did not and could not fight against Cyttorak. They left Cyttorak to fight the other guys and chased Slorioth instead.

Proof 1:

After this scan, the Vishanti left. They didn't want to deal with Cyttorak because he can not be defeated by them:

Proof 2:

"May Oshtur aid me in this hour --- May Hoggoth's hoary and now scatter -- Eternal Vishanti, grant me power. These death-Full Crimson Spears to shatter!" - Dr. Strange summon

"No response! Not even a whisper from any cosmos. It's because these crystals partake of the ESSENCE OF CYTTORAK, no incantation of any powerful entity can save me." -Dr. Strange

1: Yes go look for Stevie:

2: No, the point is that D'Spayre was ampped using the power of the Juggernaut, and Juggernaut was still more powerful than D'Spayre. Even when both of them split the power of the Gem.

3: Read the Trion Arc: Juggernaut did alot more damage than Black Bolt could ever dream of.

#43 Posted by niBBit (736 posts) - - Show Bio

Did the Fullscrum say that Tiamut is his equal in term of POWER? I remember reading the the Fullscrum only said that Tiamut has evolved from an Celestial who blindly obeys to having his own mind but that doesn't make him TOAA in terms of power. If i'm wrong i like to know.

#44 Posted by Metalslash (182 posts) - - Show Bio

@GamorasBigDaddy said:

current Tiamut owns EASILY!!! Hell even before his Ascension by Fulcrum(TOAA) he probable still takes it..

this

Tiamut Stomps

#45 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

Tiamut Stomps... On his own foot.

#46 Posted by Floopay (9061 posts) - - Show Bio

@niBBit said:

Did the Fullscrum say that Tiamut is his equal in term of POWER? I remember reading the the Fullscrum only said that Tiamut has evolved from an Celestial who blindly obeys to having his own mind but that doesn't make him TOAA in terms of power. If i'm wrong i like to know.

This is 100% correct actually. Fulcrum stated that Tiamut is beyond his control, not that Tiamut is his equal.

Additionally, the Fulcrum is only speculated as TOAA's equal, or possibly the same being.

Realistically I've always agreed with the idea that TOAA is Stan Lee, and the Fulcrum (aka Jack the Bartender) is Jack Kirby.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#47 Posted by ToO_RaW (1140 posts) - - Show Bio

Just read the entire thread. So who is TOAA? Jack Kirby or Stan Lee?

#48 Posted by mk111 (3148 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Tiamut has any actual feats?

#49 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

@ToO_RaW said:

Just read the entire thread. So who is TOAA? Jack Kirby or Stan Lee?

TOAA is the Creator. Therefore Stan Lee.

Kirby is more so to DC when it comes to the new Gods, but in Marvel; he was just one of Stan's collaborating concept artist. Stan would suggest what to draw, Kirby would draw it; Stan accepts or doesn't accept.

Galactus.

Stan lee created this character through his mind. That goes with the power and the character's history. Jack Kirby was the guy who drew Galactus from what Stan was telling him to draw him as. (1966)

10 Years later:

Kirby had to get approval from Stan to create his own list of Marvel characters. The Celestials. Jack Kirby is both the original writer and artist for these characters, but he had to follow the guidline hiearchy consistant background. Stan allowed the Celestials to be near that the power of Galactus or more depending on the heiarchy of the Celestials. The high tier Celestials are below Eternity but higher in rank than Galactus, but the low tier Celestials are par or below Galactus.

The Falcrum is just "The Collaborator". Jack Kirby is the Collaborator.

Stan is TOAA.

Stan also created the extradimension and all the characters he created in this concept are deemed through his mind as the most mysterious and most powerful of forces through the entire Marvel continuity. Cyttorak is one of those character.

#50 Posted by ToO_RaW (1140 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@ToO_RaW said:

Just read the entire thread. So who is TOAA? Jack Kirby or Stan Lee?

TOAA is the Creator. Therefore Stan Lee.

Kirby is more so to DC when it comes to the new Gods, but in Marvel; he was just one of Stan's collaborating concept artist. Stan would suggest what to draw, Kirby would draw it; Stan accepts or doesn't accept.

Galactus.

Stan lee created this character through his mind. That goes with the power and the character's history. Jack Kirby was the guy who drew Galactus from what Stan was telling him to draw him as. (1966)

10 Years later:

Kirby had to get approval from Stan to create his own list of Marvel characters. The Celestials. Jack Kirby is both the original writer and artist for these characters, but he had to follow the guidline hiearchy consistant background. Stan allowed the Celestials to be near that the power of Galactus or more depending on the heiarchy of the Celestials. The high tier Celestials are below Eternity but higher in rank than Galactus, but the low tier Celestials are par or below Galactus.

The Falcrum is just "The Collaborator". Jack Kirby is the Collaborator.

Stan is TOAA.

Stan also created the extradimension and all the characters he created in this concept are deemed through his mind as the most mysterious and most powerful of forces through the entire Marvel continuity. Cyttorak is one of those character.

Very cool.