" I'm aware of this, however it doesn't change the fact that he has frequently. And if a writer wanted Wolverine to tag him, he could do so without the claws. Heck, in the Ultimate Universe Wolverine beat him to a pulp. "
I don't recall this. Cyclops insulted Wolverine, Cyke heard a "snikt" in the dark, but before Wolverine could strike him, Jean (I think it was Jean; or maybe Prof X) stopped him in mid air. The other time I remember them coming close to a fight, Cyclops one shot Logan. But Logan wanted to be blasted down, because he has previously left Cyclops to die in the Savage land. Can't remember U Wolverine beating the hell out of U Cyclops though. Even if it did happen, the Ultimate Universe gives possibilities to do things that in 616 continuity would be considered unacceptable (see Ultimatum). But I do not argue that Cyclops has proven his ability to hit Logan. In fact, I acknowledge it. I simply pointed out a small fact - that Wolverine is frequently used as a punching bag, because of the great pain resistance he has, and of course his healing factor. "
Ultimate X-Men #22: Cyclops gives Wolverine a hook. Wolverine then hits him in the genitals, kicks him in the face, punches him the the face and then the gut. Cyclops falls to the ground, his face swollen and optic blasts Wolverine. Wolverine then leaps with his claws, but Cyclops is merely looking scared and not like he's going to fire an optic blast. That's when Jean freezes Wolverine. "
If that's true, Wolverine is a P*ssy. Cheap shot in the balls, c'mon. Also cyke was never scared of logan, and it would be stupid for that to happen. Let alone happening in Ultimate Universe Wolverine makes it pointless in the first place since it basically gives him PIS over anybody."
That's not PIS. Because it actually serves nothing to the plot. That's simply Wolverine beating the hell out of Cyclops.
It has no relevance to this fight, but so did many of the above posted scans & videos. "
That would be from the ultimate universe, which has no pull here.
@mira said:
" @k4tzm4n said:
" @mira said:
Check this:
You see? Wolverine can withstand it.Wolverine will win."
That isn't a concussive blast from Cyclops....We've already seen Cyc KO Wolverine with a well placed optic blast to the back of the head. "
But it's similar and maybe even worse than from Cyclops. "
Based on what? Wolverine walked through Bastion's beam but gets tossed around by Cyclops's. How is Bastion's worse, or similar at all?
" In all seriousness, the environment makes this fight a little lopsided in Logan's favor. "
Yes that is correct, Logan would dominate in a fight against Cyclops in this terrain, providing that Cyclops cannot get a shot off, but Cyclops is a strategist and once adapted to the environment which I believe he has 5 hours of prep time, which means he will most likely adapt dont you think that would even up the score a bit? I mean I agree entirely with you about the environment been a factor that is to Logan's favor, but just wanted your opinion if I put that factor in. :)
" I know it's not from Cyclops. But it's similar and maybe even worse than from Cyclops.. "
It's not similar to what Cyclops does. That is the point and you have no evidence to back that is even comes close to what Cyclops has been shown to do over the years.
"It has no relevance to this fight, but so did many of the above posted scans & videos."
Didn't you get the memo? "
I was agreeing with you. You know, a second opinion to support yours. "
You quoted after my post stating:
"That would be from the ultimate universe, which has no pull here."
I could not know whether you had seen all the above mentioned posts, and included them as well in your phrase. I understand what you meant, but the way you did it, seemed like you disapproved only of my post. All in all, it's nothing important really.
"It has no relevance to this fight, but so did many of the above posted scans & videos."
Didn't you get the memo? "
I was agreeing with you. You know, a second opinion to support yours. "
You quoted after my post stating:
"That would be from the ultimate universe, which has no pull here."
I could not know whether you had seen all the above mentioned posts, and included them as well in your phrase. I understand what you meant, but the way you did it, seemed like you disapproved only of my post. All in all, it's nothing important really. "
I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I did not mean to display any disapproval of your post and I will try to be more clear in the future.
"It has no relevance to this fight, but so did many of the above posted scans & videos."
Didn't you get the memo? "
I was agreeing with you. You know, a second opinion to support yours. "
You quoted after my post stating:
"That would be from the ultimate universe, which has no pull here."
I could not know whether you had seen all the above mentioned posts, and included them as well in your phrase. I understand what you meant, but the way you did it, seemed like you disapproved only of my post. All in all, it's nothing important really. "
I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I did not mean to display any disapproval of your post and I will try to be more clear in the future. "
As I said, it is really nothing important. Even if you did disapprove of my post because you had not seen the others before it on the same subject, not anyone has to read every preceding post before actually posting. Since you say you had, again, there is absolutely no misunderstanding.The "Didn't you get the memo?" line, was a Batman Begins reference to begin with. No disrespect from by behalf, as well.
As I said, it is really nothing important. Even if you did disapprove of my post because you had not seen the others before it on the same subject, not anyone has to read every preceding post before actually posting. Since you say you had, again, there is absolutely no misunderstanding.The "Didn't you get the memo?" line, was a Batman Begins reference to begin with. No disrespect from by behalf, as well. "
How about we just forget this whole thing and wipe the slate clean to save a lot of time and apologies?
As I said, it is really nothing important. Even if you did disapprove of my post because you had not seen the others before it on the same subject, not anyone has to read every preceding post before actually posting. Since you say you had, again, there is absolutely no misunderstanding.The "Didn't you get the memo?" line, was a Batman Begins reference to begin with. No disrespect from by behalf, as well. "
How about we just forget this whole thing and wipe the slate clean to save a lot of time and apologies? "
As I said, it is really nothing important. Even if you did disapprove of my post because you had not seen the others before it on the same subject, not anyone has to read every preceding post before actually posting. Since you say you had, again, there is absolutely no misunderstanding.The "Didn't you get the memo?" line, was a Batman Begins reference to begin with. No disrespect from by behalf, as well. "
How about we just forget this whole thing and wipe the slate clean to save a lot of time and apologies? "
Seconded. "
Excellent.
Back to the debate: I believe that Cyclops will beat Wolverine, and anyone who would care to look back in this thread will find my arguements why. I have made every point I can think of at the moment.
Because of prep time I'll have to go with Cyclops. I think some people don't realize just how important a thing like prep time is. It allows for so many thing to happen. Cyclops could technically plan out and set up the whole fight with prep time.
environmental conditions favor wolverine since even thou cyclops would know the area better he wouldnt be able to see wolverine in a white out, where as wolverine could track him easy. I Would like to say cylops wins but i feel in these conditions logan has all the advantages no matter how much prep time scott has
"Because of prep time I'll have to go with Cyclops. I think some people don't realize just how important a thing like prep time is. It allows for so many thing to happen. Cyclops could technically plan out and set up the whole fight with prep time."
There is a flaw with planning, nothing ever goes according to plan, and if they do, it is only by a large amount of luck
"Because of prep time I'll have to go with Cyclops. I think some people don't realize just how important a thing like prep time is. It allows for so many thing to happen. Cyclops could technically plan out and set up the whole fight with prep time."
There is a flaw with planning, nothing ever goes according to plan, and if they do, it is only by a large amount of luck "
"Because of prep time I'll have to go with Cyclops. I think some people don't realize just how important a thing like prep time is. It allows for so many thing to happen. Cyclops could technically plan out and set up the whole fight with prep time."
There is a flaw with planning, nothing ever goes according to plan, and if they do, it is only by a large amount of luck "
Nothing..? Ever..? A bit absolute, aren't you? "
Although I cant find a scan to support it, everytime someone in the comic world makes a plan, something ends up going wrong and they have to modify their gameplan to help steer the plan back on course before its too late. Cyclops can make a plan, best tactics ever to take down Wolverine, but I bet my bottom dollar, that something goes wrong, and the odds turn in favour for Wolverine.
"Because of prep time I'll have to go with Cyclops. I think some people don't realize just how important a thing like prep time is. It allows for so many thing to happen. Cyclops could technically plan out and set up the whole fight with prep time."
There is a flaw with planning, nothing ever goes according to plan, and if they do, it is only by a large amount of luck "
Nothing..? Ever..? A bit absolute, aren't you? "
Although I cant find a scan to support it, everytime someone in the comic world makes a plan, something ends up going wrong and they have to modify their gameplan to help steer the plan back on course before its too late. Cyclops can make a plan, best tactics ever to take down Wolverine, but I bet my bottom dollar, that something goes wrong, and the odds turn in favour for Wolverine. "
You haven't read F4, or Batman then. Or even Spider-man.
"Because of prep time I'll have to go with Cyclops. I think some people don't realize just how important a thing like prep time is. It allows for so many thing to happen. Cyclops could technically plan out and set up the whole fight with prep time."
There is a flaw with planning, nothing ever goes according to plan, and if they do, it is only by a large amount of luck "
Nothing..? Ever..? A bit absolute, aren't you? "
Although I cant find a scan to support it, everytime someone in the comic world makes a plan, something ends up going wrong and they have to modify their gameplan to help steer the plan back on course before its too late. Cyclops can make a plan, best tactics ever to take down Wolverine, but I bet my bottom dollar, that something goes wrong, and the odds turn in favour for Wolverine. "
You haven't read F4, or Batman then. Or even Spider-man."
Some of each, mainly in the Batman category haha, but ive seen plans go horribly wrong in those series as well. Can't rememeber any moments specifically but I remember there been SOME. Point is not all plans and strategies go the way the person wants them to.
3 hours of prep in a forest isn't a lot by any means. Forests are huge.
Neither Logan nor Scott are idiots. Both will realize that the longer the battle goes on, the worse the situation gets for Scott. Merely delaying battle will give Logan the win. So Scott has to go on the offensive. Both opponents know that. Scott simply cannot wait until he gets struck by hypothermia or freezes to death. He has a time limit for this battle and he's already been outside for 3 hours.
So the situation is vastly simplified. Scott has to go on the offensive against Logan in a setting that favors Logan. Logan should win this.
" 3 hours of prep in a forest isn't a lot by any means. Forests are huge. Neither Logan nor Scott are idiots. Both will realize that the longer the battle goes on, the worse the situation gets for Scott. Merely delaying battle will give Logan the win. So Scott has to go on the offensive. Both opponents know that. Scott simply cannot wait until he gets struck by hypothermia or freezes to death. He has a time limit for this battle and he's already been outside for 3 hours. So the situation is vastly simplified. Scott has to go on the offensive against Logan in a setting that favors Logan. Logan should win this. "
Assume that Scott, in the time frame of three hours, is not tired at all by his walk through the forest. And that he saw the entire forest, as well. No matter how big it is, and if he could logically go from one side to the other in that time frame. Otherwise, it would be unjust for him. And he also has another five hours to prepare after walking the forest. So going to the offensive, will not do. Hunting Wolverine in a forest, even one that Scott already knows, is not Scott's style. Why? Because that course of action leaves him completely exposed. And Cyke is no fool.
....So, you're saying Wolverine would do exactly what Cyclops would expect him to do...Thus, look like he's wandering around, when he's really paying attention to his flank...
his flank is his right or left side sooo.... that would be a big negative their homeboy, he wouldnt be expecting the attack coming from below his feet or whats left of them as logan claws him as he reaches for him. logan would more then like come at the right angle from below and slightly behind him keeping his head from aiming an attack as logan reahes out and stabs him through his back while pulling his hair and maintaining control of his head.
cyke can expect as much as he wants doesnt mean he has the luxury or skills to do anything about or to know when it will happen aside from that cyke isnt fast enough to even see logan when logan is in full stealth mode.
" Assume that Scott, in the time frame of three hours, is not tired at all by his walk through the forest. And that he saw the entire forest, as well. No matter how big it is, and if he could logically go from one side to the other in that time frame. Otherwise, it would be unjust for him. And he also has another five hours to prepare after walking the forest. So going to the offensive, will not do. Hunting Wolverine in a forest, even one that Scott already knows, is not Scott's style. Why? Because that course of action leaves him completely exposed. And Cyke is no fool. "
Let's assume then that Scott is fully rested for whatever reason at the beginning of this fight. That's fine. After a few hours Cyclops will suffer from hypothermia. This is full blown Canadian winter in falling snow. Temperature averages can reach 70 degrees below 0.
Just finding each other in a Forest will take a while. It could take hours. I often play airsoft and in large games you can go an hour without finding people. That's when multiple groups are in a field with other enemy groups. This is a scenario with just one person trying to find another single person. Also there are clear boundaries in airsoft fields.
Scott simply cannot stand a prolonged battle. The longer the battle goes the worse off his fighting capabilities become. He'll need to find Logan or he'll just freeze to death. He may not want to go on the offensive but he'll have to.
I know you want a really interesting battle but I don't think you're giving Mother Nature enough credit. She's easily a third combatant.
" Assume that Scott, in the time frame of three hours, is not tired at all by his walk through the forest. And that he saw the entire forest, as well. No matter how big it is, and if he could logically go from one side to the other in that time frame. Otherwise, it would be unjust for him. And he also has another five hours to prepare after walking the forest. So going to the offensive, will not do. Hunting Wolverine in a forest, even one that Scott already knows, is not Scott's style. Why? Because that course of action leaves him completely exposed. And Cyke is no fool. "
Let's assume then that Scott is fully rested for whatever reason at the beginning of this fight. That's fine. After a few hours Cyclops will suffer from hypothermia. This is full blown Canadian winter in falling snow. Temperature averages can reach 70 degrees below 0. Just finding each other in a Forest will take a while. It could take hours. I often play airsoft and in large games you can go an hour without finding people. That's when multiple groups are in a field with other enemy groups. This is a scenario with just one person trying to find another single person. Also there are clear boundaries in airsoft fields. Scott simply cannot stand a prolonged battle. The longer the battle goes the worse off his fighting capabilities become. He'll need to find Logan or he'll just freeze to death. He may not want to go on the offensive but he'll have to.I know you want a really interesting battle but I don't think you're giving Mother Nature enough credit. She's easily a third combatant. "
I am. But I like that you pointed this out, as well. You see, I am mostly, a keeper of balance here (sinceI'm the creator of this thread). So, I don't want to give my full opinion. Just hear what others have to say. As for this, I prefer to hear many opinions, but also suspendf my disbelief for the sake of (an argument), and a good fight. But since you pointed this out, I can't help, but agree.
" like i said earlier ninja magic vanish for logan and burial trick technique to attack cyke from below the snow as cyke walks over him. "
I don't see Cyke going around and looking for Wolverine. More so since he is the one with prep time and the ability to set up the field of battle. You act as if Cyke is stupid. "
no, i do not think scott is stupid he is just way to hampered in this type of battle and the terrain is more of a plus for logan then it would be for scott along with the weather.
no he wouldnt want to but, he would have no choice to the extreme cold weather he would have to keep moving and even then it would hamper him and kill him if exposed long enough in this weather non of that would hamper logan in the least cyke here is seriously screwed.
sigh....... even if cyke had winter gear it is very unlikely even with the weather not being their that cyke could or would see logan in his stealth mode ninja magic trick until he was decapitated and could register what had just happen.
they were dismissed because none of that would be remotely effective against wolverine and his sense of surrounding is no where near logans and other being he has hunted and killed. that is why they were dismissed.
my point is he can move and disappear in ideal conditions against cyke and here in this weatrher would not be ideal at all.. giving logan even better cover for his ninja tricks.
Hypothermia can kill in only 30 minutes. Cold temperature, but also strong wind causes the body to rapidly lose heat. You start to shiver in order to maintain body heat from the rapid muscular shaking. http://www.mounteverest.net/expguide/frostbite.htm
I possibly understated the case. Also remember that Scott has to move stealthily. This will slow him down.
I was actually thinking about this before...And given what is on the line, i'm surpirsed no one has given this scenario before:
Both characters are extremely passionate about Jean, we all know this far too well...However she always stuck with Scott, and this clearly hurts Logan. Cyclops' best bet is here is a mind game. He could destroy the tree's in a 50 foot radius around him, and then announce how Jean would never forgive him if she actually killed him, how she always chose him over Logan, and that he's not good enough for Jean. Natrually, I'd imagine this would hit Logan pretty hard, perhaps to the point where he would rush out in pure rage. This unfortunately for him, leaves him out in the open. I kept on thinking how this would be 50/50, but given the situation/rules, I see no reason why Cyc wouldn't do such a thing. He has after all, talked down to Wolverine many times in the past.
" I was actually thinking about this before...And given what is on the line, i'm surpirsed no one has given this scenario before:
Both characters are extremely passionate about Jean, we all know this far too well...However she always stuck with Scott, and this clearly hurts Logan. Cyclops' best bet is here is a mind game. He could destroy the tree's in a 50 foot radius around him, and then announce how Jean would never forgive him if she actually killed him, how she always chose him over Logan, and that he's not good enough for Jean. Natrually, I'd imagine this would hit Logan pretty hard, perhaps to the point where he would rush out in pure rage. This unfortunately for him, leaves him out in the open. I kept on thinking how this would be 50/50, but given the situation/rules, I see no reason why Cyc wouldn't do such a thing. He has after all, talked down to Wolverine many times in the past. "
He wouldn't take the bate. Too obvious. I can see that happening if they're at close range but unable for some reason to take shots at each other - casual trash talking between the two.
Of course it's obvious. But the point is Scott has gotten to his emotions before...And if it's Jean he's talking about, I don't see why he wouldn't . Especially if Wolverine realizes how much killing Cyclops would hurt Jean.
Long as Scott is shouting it out then I think Wolverine would hear it. Though it might be an obvious thing, that does not mean it won't sound true and get under his skin. They both felt very passionately for Jean, so reminding him of all those times she chose him and the things they shared would pain him. Wolverine has not been shown to be the most level headed fighter (even before his recent tank mode now a days) when it comes to things like this.
^Exactly my point, but better put. I just returned from the gym and am quite sweaty....however I chose to post that rather quickly before showering...Which I'll do now, brb
But I don't believe Logan would want Jean to be hurt; also, Logan has successfully provoked Cyclops as well...Especially considering the Emma Frost affair.
I laugh at the whole Emma mind affair incident. The big deal that was made with it, when Jean has gone off on make out sessions with Wolverine before. Yet Cyclops was the one frowned upon for the entire ordeal? But that's another rant so I'll leave it alone to not derail this thread.
If Logan wouldn't want to hurt Jean, he would allow Summers to win ;)
"
It wouldn't be that much out of character...
@Andferne said:
" I laugh at the whole Emma mind affair incident. The big deal that was made with it, when Jean has gone off on make out sessions with Wolverine before. Yet Cyclops was the one frowned upon for the entire ordeal? But that's another rant so I'll leave it alone to not derail this thread. "
Didn't Cyclops begin to have an affair regularly with Emma, after that? I believe Logan didn't like it very much.
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