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#1 Edited by jashro44 (23840 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops

VS

Hawkeye (ultimate version)

Rules

  • Morals on
  • Pre AVX cyclops
  • Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation
  • Standard gear
  • Random encounter

Location

  • Begin visible
  • Begin on opposite ends
  • Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

Online
#2 Posted by The_PAIN (720 posts) - - Show Bio

One "One Get OFF MY LAWN" Optic Blast would do the trick.

#3 Edited by Kario1 (56 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops would win, he has enough training to just blast the arrows. Also when he could just use full power on Hawkeye and obliterate him. Hawkeye just has nothing that could really affect Cyclops.

#4 Posted by MisterWhisper (2126 posts) - - Show Bio

While I think that Cyclops would win, it would be closer than people think.

Scott wins 7/10.

#5 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye with the pym arrows that do ridiculous things.

#6 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium: That is 616 Hawkeye. Ultimate Hawkeye has the Nuke Arrow.

@kario1: Bullets to Scotts head would affect him. Also Hawkeye is faster than Peak Human in reaction. He has a super human Twitch Factor and enhance eyes.

Which is why he can gun down 5 guards with guns to his head in a split second.

Hawkeye Super Human Twitch and Enhance Eyes allows him to beat Spider Man and shoot out his webs.

@the_pain: When does Cyke nuke people with Morals on?

I know for a fact Ultimate Hawkeye has no morals.

Guy is Ultimate Marvel version of Bullseye. Train Killer.

#7 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

I still think cyclops has got this for being accurate with his beams which should take down hawkeye

#8 Edited by k4tzm4n (51201 posts) - - Show Bio

They're in character. This means Cyclops won't fully unleash and Clint won't use that mini-nuke arrow. The situation doesn't call for it.

Staff
#9 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

Uses nuke arrow once against someone with Colossus' durability = USES NUKE ARROW IN EVERY SITUATION

#10 Posted by dondave (38819 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Hawkeye ftw

#11 Posted by nick_hero22 (7090 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Hawkeye because is he much more accurate and has a quicker reaction time, which would allow him to tag Cyclops before he is able to get an accurate hit.

#12 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch said:

Uses nuke arrow once against someone with Colossus' durability = USES NUKE ARROW IN EVERY SITUATION

Yet every Cyke fan points out "Cykes Nuke Beam FTW" and it is all okay. Sounds bias to me.

@k4tzm4n said:

They're in character. This means Cyclops won't fully unleash and Clint won't use that mini-nuke arrow. The situation doesn't call for it.

True, Hawkeye will not hesitate putting bullets in Cykes head. Cykes can dodge, however HE has kept up with Spider Man speed and Spider Sense with his skills and bullets.

Or the fact he can Machine Gun Fire Cyke with Bullseye Accuracy.

Also on a side note....

HE already killed a Cyclopes being who had no morals, as well his 2 super powered friends.

HE has this with near ease.

#13 Edited by k4tzm4n (51201 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: That entire post is in response to me saying Clint won't use a nuke arrow? May I ask why?

Staff
#14 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Just the top part about the bullets. The rest a more ramble.....

#15 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I just realize you made this thread... for shame.

#16 Edited by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:Yes, I am totally biased since I wrote that. Oh wait, I didn't, and no one else has yet in this thread.

#17 Posted by JediXMan (31253 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye is great. But honestly, Cyclops has better range and overall spread, should he choose to utilize it. His accuracy is probably at least able to keep up with Clint; not exceed it, but it's good enough to counter his attacks. Also, the location involves a lot of cover. Cyclops can clear the cover in order to reach Clint (no, I'm not talking about him taking off the visor; just a good straight shot), whereas Clint will probably need a clear shot.

I favor Cyclops. 6/10.

Moderator
#18 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

Hawkeye is great. But honestly, Cyclops has better range and overall spread, should he choose to utilize it. His accuracy is probably at least able to keep up with Clint; not exceed it, but it's good enough to counter his attacks. Also, the location involves a lot of cover. Cyclops can clear the cover in order to reach Clint (no, I'm not talking about him taking off the visor; just a good straight shot), whereas Clint will probably need a clear shot.

I favor Cyclops. 6/10.

#19 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch: No, just sounds bias that you would say something on HE Nuke arrow but not Cyke Nuke Beam. So yeah....

@jedixman said:

Hawkeye is great. But honestly, Cyclops has better range and overall spread, should he choose to utilize it. His accuracy is probably at least able to keep up with Clint; not exceed it, but it's good enough to counter his attacks. Also, the location involves a lot of cover. Cyclops can clear the cover in order to reach Clint (no, I'm not talking about him taking off the visor; just a good straight shot), whereas Clint will probably need a clear shot.

I favor Cyclops. 6/10.

I have to ask how Cyclopes is faster?

HE dodges a Bomb blast while saving one SHIELD guy.

HE Doeges a City of Train Military while SHIELD follows behind.

HE dodges 3 super people, one with Cyke Beams, another with Magneto Powers, and a third with Energy Armor.

HE takes down Toad and then Rogue Dodging with Toads Superhuman Agility / and Jump speed.

HE kills a room full of military with guns to his head.

HE has the Speed to shoot out Spider Man Webs, keep Spider Man of balance, and then Dodge Spider Man's own Web attacks.

Ultimate Spider Man Speed and Dodging >>>> 616 Cyclopes.

HE has superhuman reaction that exceeds Cyclopes since he has Superhuman Twitch Factor.

To say Cyke is faster is false imo.

Also you seem to ignore Hawkeye's Trick arrows.

Like the Flash Bang Arrow. That will throw Scotts game off making the advantage to Hawkeye that much more.

HE should win 7/10 matches.

#20 Edited by jashro44 (23840 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I just realize you made this thread... for shame.

I think it could be a good fight. I wont really explain though since I created this thread.

Online
#21 Edited by Strider92 (16771 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem is with Morals On I wouldn't put it past Clint to simply put an arrow or bullet through Cyke's head (he has the reaction speed and accuracy to do it) but with Morals Off Cyke would simply take of his visor and boom. Given how his Morals are Cyke seems far more handicapped than Clint who won't think twice about starting off with a kill-shot.

#22 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch: No, just sounds bias that you would say something on HE Nuke arrow but not Cyke Nuke Beam. So yeah....

@thundergodswrath said:

@jedixman said:

Hawkeye is great. But honestly, Cyclops has better range and overall spread, should he choose to utilize it. His accuracy is probably at least able to keep up with Clint; not exceed it, but it's good enough to counter his attacks. Also, the location involves a lot of cover. Cyclops can clear the cover in order to reach Clint (no, I'm not talking about him taking off the visor; just a good straight shot), whereas Clint will probably need a clear shot.

I favor Cyclops. 6/10.

I have to ask how Cyclopes is faster?

HE dodges a Bomb blast while saving one SHIELD guy.

HE Doeges a City of Train Military while SHIELD follows behind.

HE dodges 3 super people, one with Cyke Beams, another with Magneto Powers, and a third with Energy Armor.

HE takes down Toad and then Rogue Dodging with Toads Superhuman Agility / and Jump speed.

HE kills a room full of military with guns to his head.

HE has the Speed to shoot out Spider Man Webs, keep Spider Man of balance, and then Dodge Spider Man's own Web attacks.

Ultimate Spider Man Speed and Dodging >>>> 616 Cyclopes.

HE has superhuman reaction that exceeds Cyclopes since he has Superhuman Twitch Factor.

To say Cyke is faster is false imo.

Also you seem to ignore Hawkeye's Trick arrows.

Like the Flash Bang Arrow. That will throw Scotts game off making the advantage to Hawkeye that much more.

HE should win 7/10 matches.

Would a flash bang arrow take Scott off his game? Seems to me like light attacks like that shouldn't have any effect on Scott for two reaons. One he always sees the world in red because his powers create red light, so technically there is always light in his eyes. Two, he knows how to fight blind as he has been without his ruby quartz before and can still hit targets going from having his eyes closed to opening them, he even tagged Quicksilver with a blind shot IIRC.

#23 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Ever been hit with a Flash Bang? It sucks. No way around it.

Flashbangs work in 3 ways.

1) Light temporary Blinds. Scott is unaffected.

2) Sound deafens your ears, hear a ringing for minuets. Scott is Affected.

3) The Shock and Vibration of it stuns you, you are unsure if you been hit with a Bomb or a Flash Bang. It will cause a distraction to Cyke who might mentally check for injuries, debris, ect. Its a shock to the Psyche and system.

So 2 out of 3 ways to throw Cyclopes Game off.

#24 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Ever been hit with a Flash Bang? It sucks. No way around it.

Flashbangs work in 3 ways.

1) Light temporary Blinds. Scott is unaffected.

2) Sound deafens your ears, hear a ringing for minuets. Scott is Affected.

3) The Shock and Vibration of it stuns you, you are unsure if you been hit with a Bomb or a Flash Bang. It will cause a distraction to Cyke who might mentally check for injuries, debris, ect. Its a shock to the Psyche and system.

So 2 out of 3 ways to throw Cyclopes Game off.

That's if he doesn't neutralize it from afar like he does a lot of projectiles. The above scan has the arrow being caught. I don't see Scott letting it get that close, and he certainly isn't gonna try to catch it.

Even if the sound does get him, we have no evidence that it will blind him, so he can still use his powers effectively with that sense not being messed with. Not to mention he has been around some pretty big explosions without becoming disoriented.

When he tagged Quicksilver, he was blitzed and close to blacking out and he still was able to use his power to fight back, so the third scenario doesn't seem like it would do much either.

#25 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

That's if he doesn't neutralize it from afar like he does a lot of projectiles. The above scan has the arrow being caught. I don't see Scott letting it get that close, and he certainly isn't gonna try to catch it.

Even if the sound does get him, we have no evidence that it will blind him, so he can still use his powers effectively with that sense not being messed with. Not to mention he has been around some pretty big explosions without becoming disoriented.

When he tagged Quicksilver, he was blitzed and close to blacking out and he still was able to use his power to fight back, so the third scenario doesn't seem like it would do much either.

The arrow was caught because Ultimate Thor has Lightning Speed Reflexes in feats. Also why would Cyke blast it? That takes time. He will probably just dodge it as it sticks the area next to him.

Well that is your sense on it then so be it. I still see no way Cyke beating HE when HE can rain Arrows in the thousands on Scott's head.

Here he shows he has Coordinates in his head at all times.

He Lobs RPGs overhead with ease at targets moving over 100 MPH and a mile away.

His Bow Speed is inhuman due to twitch factor.

All this equal....

Good Game.

#26 Edited by k4tzm4n (51201 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops clearly has the edge when it comes to raw power. His blasts can smack around the cover, and, in due time, he could use more powerful attacks or even ricochet shots, too. There's no denying that's a huge factor. However, this is a large environment laced with a lot of cover, and while Scott has a powerful offensive measure, it also gives away where he is every single time. If Clint's using regular arrows, the same does not apply to him and that could be valuable in combat.

Clint's accuracy is just as good, more consistent (the only poor feat I can recall is vs. Tigra) and additionally, the guy will have no hesitation going for kill shots to make sure they count. In a more open environment, he wouldn't be able to dodge more than a few blasts at most. This, however, isn't an open environment and it greatly increases his chances of avoiding getting tagged. And that's great news for him because getting hit once has the potential to end this. Scott, on the other hand, can keep trucking if the arrow is nonlethal. On top of his accuracy and lack of morals, he has more variety thanks to trick arrows. It's unclear if that flash arrow only produced light or sound as well, but it's still a potential factor nonetheless.

Of course, Scott's tactical mind isn't to be underestimated as well. As we saw in the Savage Land, he's always generating battle plans and thanks to this, he could outsmart Clint if the fight prolongs. So Scott's smarter and more powerful, but Clint's accuracy and mindset can end this right when he has an opening. It's possible for either character to take it, but if I absolutely had to pick, I'd slightly favor Clint.

Staff
#27 Edited by Illuminatus (9510 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops. I've debated on the side of Ultimate Clint enough times in my life to come to the realization that he is, quite simply, not as skilled as Scott.

#28 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: the real question is why would he dodge it. If you could blast projectiles out of the air, would you chance dodging it instead? It doesn't take him much time to blast anything, it's a matter of just looking in the direction he wants to fire in and it's certainly quicker than loading an arrow, and since they are both visible to each other I don't see him getting his bow ready before Scott lets off his first shot. If I'm not mistaken Scott also has an uncanny knack for trajectory, what keeps him from predicting the course of the projectiles, and taking them out? He has used single shots to take out multiple targets by using his skill in trajectory.

#29 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: You say faster than notching a arrow, Yet Clint is past Mach Speeds with his Twitch Factor. So no, Clint could launch 3-4 arrows in the span of a Fraction of a second.

#30 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

Clint wins

#31 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: You say faster than notching a arrow, Yet Clint is past Mach Speeds with his Twitch Factor. So no, Clint could launch 3-4 arrows in the span of a Fraction of a second.

Except the battle has them seeing each other with no prep, which means he doesn't come to the battle with bow and arrow at the ready. He will not be taking out his weapons, loading them and firing before Scott can just look at him, which by the way he starts off the battle already doing.

#32 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Actually that is what I am saying. Clint will notch and fly 3-4 Arrows Faster that Cyke who in character will do a minor blast that Clint will easy dodge.

#33 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Actually that is what I am saying. Clint will notch and fly 3-4 Arrows Faster that Cyke who in character will do a minor blast that Clint will easy dodge.

No you are saying that 3-4 arrows will be flying before or during Scotts attack. That doesn't make sense,unless he comes prepped. He has to get out his bow and load those 3-4 arrows, Scott will have already fired a shot while this is happening. Scott can also see while blasting and has an uncanny ability to predict trajectory, it will take him seconds to readjust his blast to take out the arrows that I assume will all be coming straight at him, as it would make no sense for a guy "that doesn't miss" to fire 2-3 duds, with only one being the actually one he wants to hit the mark. He can even use a single shot to bounce off each arrow and still target Clint. Those arrows will be taken out and the blast can still be traveling as it does this.

In character Scott may not use lethal force, that in no way translates to him coming into a battle with kiddie gloves on firing minor blasts (whatever that's suppose to mean). With his new outlook on life it's actually more likely that he will use excessive force anyway and still be in character.

#34 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Get out his bow?! He always has his bow at the ready. Even when he is not fighting.

Also many low tier guys have dodge Optic Blast. MANY. HE has great Dodge Feats as well and can let fly 3-4 arrows in Midair!

This battle is against a Optic blasting Mutate. HE did not even have his Bow here. He had it thrown to him in Mid Air. He then (while still in Mid Air) pops 3 arrows in the Mutates head.

Check Mate.

#35 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Get out his bow?! He always has his bow at the ready. Even when he is not fighting.

Also many low tier guys have dodge Optic Blast. MANY. HE has great Dodge Feats as well and can let fly 3-4 arrows in Midair!

This battle is against a Optic blasting Mutate. HE did not even have his Bow here. He had it thrown to him in Mid Air. He then (while still in Mid Air) pops 3 arrows in the Mutates head.

Check Mate.

Some random mutate that has none of Scotts skill firing wildly is now the deciding factor? Whether he is ready to fight or not, without prep, this is with standard equipment which means he is fighting with a bow as it is standard. Scott has great feats of hitting multiple targets with one shot and can tag a speedster that is several times faster than Spider Man (Quicksliver) with a blind shot on the verge of blacking out from being speed blitzed, he can tag an agile human.

#36 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

Except he did this while being bowless and killed 3 other Super Beings targetting him.

So yeah it is comparable easy.

You still showed me nothing of Cyke putting HE down in character.

HE on the other hand kills SHIELD when they ambush him and shot him.

With Forks and Spoon!!

Also to keep harping on HE using a Bow and arrow is old as well. HE also uses a Pair of Custom Guns for the longest time before Ultimatum, During Ultimantum, and After Ultimantum.

GUNS!

GUNS!

GUNS!

GUNS!

GUNS!

SO MANY GUUUUNS!

I think it is very freaking clear Hawkeye Standard Gear is Guns as well!

This is Ultimate Hawk Eye with dual Guns!

Dodge that Cyke!

#37 Edited by jashro44 (23840 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#38 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Posted by robertloucksjr (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: You say faster than notching a arrow, Yet Clint is past Mach Speeds with his Twitch Factor. So no, Clint could launch 3-4 arrows in the span of a Fraction of a second.

How fast does a bow string move once released? That alone would take up more that a fraction of a second and then you have the arrow travel time. Fact is Cyclops would probably have a whole second before the first Arrow can reach him. That is enough time to tag Hawkeye with a relatively wide angle beam.

From some archery site - "Recurve bow arrows can travel up to 225 feet per second (fps) or 150mph while compound bow arrows can travel up to 300fps (200mph). Longbow arrows travel slower due to the weight of the arrows. Even at 300fps, it takes around a second to reach a 90 meter target."

Online
#40 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@robertloucksjr said:

@cadencev2 said:

@lordofallhumans: You say faster than notching a arrow, Yet Clint is past Mach Speeds with his Twitch Factor. So no, Clint could launch 3-4 arrows in the span of a Fraction of a second.

How fast does a bow string move once released? That alone would take up more that a fraction of a second and then you have the arrow travel time. Fact is Cyclops would probably have a whole second before the first Arrow can reach him. That is enough time to tag Hawkeye with a relatively wide angle beam.

From some archery site - "Recurve bow arrows can travel up to 225 feet per second (fps) or 150mph while compound bow arrows can travel up to 300fps (200mph). Longbow arrows travel slower due to the weight of the arrows. Even at 300fps, it takes around a second to reach a 90 meter target."

I have no clue what purpose you think Real World Facts apply to a character with Super Speed.

Hawkeye as I proven through MANY scans can fire 3-4 arrows in a fraction of a second. This is a fact regardless of real world stats.

Hawkeye is a COMIC BOOK character who has launched 3-4 arrows in succession. Each one moving at roughly 420 FPS and right behind the other.

This is undeniable as per scans.

Each Arrow is traveling near 420 FPS. Each Arrow is fired one after the other in what can only be Fraction of a second. This is not open to debate.

Second Shield uses the best bow in world if not better.

The Fastest Bow in the world is 454 FPS!

So I doubt HE is NOT using a State of the Art Compact Bow design to fire special tip Arrows.

#41 Edited by xso111 (31 posts) - - Show Bio

clint wins i remember clint effortlessly killed a mutant with the same power as scotts and he can fire arrows faster and plentier than scott using his optic blast.and i think its easier to anticipate where the optic blast will hit when you just look at his head while clint's arrows are stealthier and harder to predict but if they go all out, scott taking his ruby-quartz shades off and clint using a nuke arrow it would be a tie(both dead)?

#42 Edited by r2datu (715 posts) - - Show Bio

It honestly depends on who can get a shot off first. One shot with their accuracy and striking power is all it takes.

#43 Posted by copete (1094 posts) - - Show Bio

@xso111 said:

clint wins i remember clint effortlessly killed a mutant with the same power as scotts and he can fire arrows faster and plentier than scott using his optic blast.and i think its easier to anticipate where the optic blast will hit when you just look at his head while clint's arrows are stealthier and harder to predict but if they go all out, scott taking his ruby-quartz shades off and clint using a nuke arrow it would be a tie(both dead)?

Don't compare that chump to Cyclops.

Cyclops got this. He has tagged more agile and quicker guys, such as Spider-Man and Wolverine, so there is no chance Hawkeye can evade Cyclops for long. One shot and it's effectively over.

#44 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

With morals-on, I don't see Cyclops pulling the lawnblast. He only does that against high-end threats, and would he risk causing possible death if his morals were on? Similarly, Ultimate Hawkeye won't use the nuke arrow. Not because he has any morals because we know he doesn't...but because it's entirely impractical. Hawkeye has only used it once and it was only against Ultimate Colossus - a 1000 tonner who was kicking the crap out of Thor at the time. He's not gonna use it against someone like Cyclops. To suggest that he would is entirely out-of-character.

#45 Edited by Wolverine08 (45178 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye should take a slim majority morals on, Scott obliterates morals off.

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#46 Posted by dondave (38819 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott

#47 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

I remember this thread. HE still wins.

#48 Posted by OreoAssassin (5905 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Didnt you say Hawkeye would win before?

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#49 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by Stompa (1312 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals on i say HE wins this simply because he has a lot less morals and wouldn´t hesitate very long before killing Cyce.