@laryking:
First of all,it was due to the writter intention,if he wanted to make cyke look like a formidable opponet,he would.Anyway,i know cap has tanked some blasts,(he was crouched on the floor while fighting thor, though)but i honestly see cyke blasting him.His firepower is too much for cap to handle;.I know cap is resistant to fatigue,but cyke is fatigued only after 15 minutes continius usage of his power,and i don't see cap blocking cyke for that much.Cap couldn't take a lot whom he has taken down through the years,without his shield,it's just the same thing as cyke with his optic blasts.
The whole writer intention goes vise versa with Cyke. We have two instances where Cap was thrown back, and two instances where he either plowed through or was stationary and didn't move. Given the properties of the shield and the other feats Steve has, he could sit there and brace himself enough to deal with the blasts. And Cyke has tired himself quicker than 15 minutes in the past when he goes all out. His stamina against Steve's is not comparable, but it shouldn't be brought up as in character, it's highly unlikely Scott is going to stand there and just blast Steve for 15 minutes.
Cyke's also better at utilizing his environment.
No he isn't. Cyke and Cap are relatively equal when it comes to their tactical abilities. Cyke has used the environment on multiple occasions, but so has Cap.
Next h2h:If you are so expert ,solve me this:When did cyke learn his h2h skills;He was supposed to have taken the super soldier serum and the next day got into combat,so when did he learned them;
Steve learned his skills through training with masters in the military. Steve's brain processes knowledge and information at a much faster rate. He's been confirmed to be able to master virtually any weapon within minutes due to the serum. And that knowledge doesn't leave him when the serum goes away either. He has been stated to know virtually all styles of fighting, or relatively close, and in h2h combat, his feats are far better than Scott's. That isn't really arguable. Until Scott goes consistent h2h with people like Iron Fist, Daredevil, Black Panther, Shang-Chi, Deadpool, or half of Steve's rogue gallery like Crossbones, Batroc, Zemo, Red Skull and so on, Scott does not have the combat feats Steve has. I took Wolverine out for a reason as Scott has shown he knows Wolverine's style of fighting as well as the other X-Men. That goes back to my point of having studied his team inside and out to know their patterns and attack styles to deal with them effectively if necessary.
Judo and Aikido ain't the only martial arts cyke knows,it's just the ones he uses the most.You say that knowledge over the x-men granted cyke victory then,but,he has been shown to analyze his opponets during the fight or just by watching them.When did cap learned them?He could understand cap's style.
Judo and Aikido are the only confirmed martial arts Scott knows to be a master at. Everything else is speculation on what he knows. This has been stated in the handbooks and other bios. This is why Scott is rated as a 4 in terms of fighting skills. Steve is rated as a 6 and has been confirmed to know a vastly higher number of confirmed fighting styles, including the ones Scott knows.
You say that knowledge over the x-men granted cyke victory then,but,he has been shown to analyze his opponets during the fight or just by watching them.When did cap learned them?He could understand cap's style
Because this has been supported by textual evidence from the comics that Scott has shown he can deal with his team. But the Avengers are a different animal than the X-Men in terms of power and variety. Scott's only knowledge of the Avengers as far as consistent training would be a Danger Room sessions. There is no confirmed evidence that he has all of their programs or has studied them inside and out as he has his own team.Only enough knowledge that he is capable of fighting them with what he has, but considering his diversity, his team is more than capable of doing so. However, characters can go through training sessions against teams all of the time, that doesn't mean it is treated as the same deal when single members on said team can beat said character in 1 on 1 combat. Steve and Scott have faced each other and in their only real one on one fight, neither looked better than the other. Scott had his power, and Steve was able to react and defend. It is a good one on one fight. And Cap's also been stated to change and adapt instantly to combat situations himself. He used the environment against the Apocalypse Twins not too long ago. And since he has knowledge of fighting Cyke, the same can be said for him. Unlike Scott, his fighting style is more diverse. Scott doesn't need a more diverse style, but it is a factor if it comes up close, which it can. So no advantage towards Cyclops in this regard.
Cap has insane ricochet skills;What about scott;He was ricocheting before he could walk. :) .He beats cap at ricocheting.
I never said Steve's skills were better, but his ricochet feats are incredible. That is all I said and it is a factor. That doesn't necessarily give Cyke a huge advantage in that regard either.
Cyke is smarter,more accurate and has been show to be the hell of an combat analyzer.Cap can't one shot cyke
Cyke isn't smarter by any means. His accuracy feats aren't better. Why would you think so? Because he looks and shoots? People around Steve's level have dodged Cyke's blasts before. Daredevil, Wolverine, Cap, Bullseye, Storm, Mr. Sinister, and even Black Tom Cassidy have all dodged or blocked blasts from Cyclops at some point. He isn't infallible with his shots. And while Cyke can tag him, he isn't a better shot. I will say he is quicker on the draw, but Steve has been able to block him enough times as is. It also doesn't help Scott when Steve has faced Taskmaster and was getting the upperhand against Princess Zola, someone who is capable of predicting moves. Scott's analyzing against an opponent that can go tit for tat with him as far as strategizing goes gives him no clear advantage. And Steve can't one shot Cyclops? Cyclops has no enhanced durability whatsoever. Steve has thrown his shield through tank barrels, armored trucks, fast enough to catch up to freshly launched missiles. I know full well what Cyke can do as far as his blast strength goes, but he is perfectly susceptible to being taken out in one hit if necessary. Both can take each other in a single hit.
Cyke can.During schism cyke has taken a lot of claw slashes from logan,and was still fighting,while in AvX where logan was fighting cap,cap took 1,i repeat ,1 slash and was ready to go down.Don't underestimate cyke's endurance man.
Being slashed multiple times and getting a nearly unbreakable shield to face are two completely different types of attacks. Steve may have been against the wall holding his gut, but he effectively dodged a straight lunge from Logan and then put his plan into action. Scott has been taken out by a single punch from Daredevil IIRC, a single attack from Black Panther, and Cap had him on the ground with a single shield bash to the face. If you want to play the endurance card, Namor has smashed Cap through boulders, he's fought through a HYDRA base while bleeding out, Iron Man was treating him like a child until the Vision interfered, Aleph was bashing his face in, and Cap's whole stint in Dimension Z was absolutely ridiculous where he carved Zola's consciousness out of his chest and had a giant gaping hole and still went on to fight. I'm not underestimating Cyke's tolerance, but Steve has him beat in endurance and pain tolerance.
If cap threw his shield,cyke would neutralize it,leaving cap totally undefended.
If Cap threw his shield that also leaves an opening for Cap to come in between the blasts and one shot him. Again, it goes both ways.
What "cap's level hero "means;He's just peak human and his enduranceain't that much.Scott is an olympic level athlete,spending years in the danger room.
Cap is an enhanced human. His stamina is higher than Scott's. It is not human level.
Again ,if the writter wanted to make cyke look great,he would.It is moralls off,which means he can visor off..If it was life and death matter,he would cripple cap,not kill him or remove his visor in any way though
A writer can do anything he wants. A writer has made Hulk struggle with gorillas that a low super-human level Shanna the She-Devil one shotted. A writer has made Hulk lose to a python. A writer made Deadpool dodge Cyclops, Surge, and Domino all at the same time. A writer has made Wolverine going into a convulsive mess via throat chop. The thing is, we aren't debating what a writer can make them do. We debate by using actual and consistent evidence supported by the comics. Those instances I just mentioned are not consistent with a character's abilities. Hulk shot not have trouble with a gorilla or python. Deadpool should be able to dodge Cyclops, Surge, and Domino from 10 feet away with such easy. Logan getting hit in the throat is not going to send him into a seizure. What is supported by the comics is Cyclops has never lawn blasted or max blasted another hero, save for the Hulk. Him crippling Cap would be out of character. It would be just as out of character for Steve to just lop Cyke's head off with a shield toss. It isn't happening in character. Why? Because on panel evidence. What is also supported is the fact that Steve and Scott have never gotten a decisive advantage over each other. Outside of their fights, evidence suggest that both can beat one another.
Dude,i thought yopu were a cyclops fan,man.I see scott winning this ,not easy though
I don't let Cyclops being my favorite character cloud my judgement. And you said Cyke beats him easily 3x in this thread. Deleting your posts that say that aren't hiding it from me. What happened to that?
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