#1 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

who would have it? there very skilled one has an indestructible defence, and the other has a strong raged attack.

um setting middle of an abandoned city.

#2 Posted by The Hellfire Club (94 posts) - - Show Bio

Isnt Cap already dead? So I guess Cyclops wins by default. Seriously though I think Cap would win.

#3 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

The Hellfire Club says:

"Isnt Cap already dead? So I guess Cyclops wins by default. Seriously though I think Cap would win."

lol yeah aside from the fact that he's dead

#4 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

The Hellfire Club says:

"Isnt Cap already dead? So I guess Cyclops wins by default. Seriously though I think Cap would win."

Why not Cyclops? Those blasts of his should be moving at light speed and they should be more than powerful enough to send Cap flying, even with his shield robbing them of most of their force.

#5 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

I've never heard of Cyclops eye blasts being faster then the speed of light. Say he did blast Cap and send him flying, then what, Cap would employ some military tactics and gain position on Cyclops and take him out with a well placed shield shot.

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#6 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"I've never heard of Cyclops eye blasts being faster then the speed of light. Say he did blast Cap and send him flying, then what, Cap would employ some military tactics and gain position on Cyclops and take him out with a well placed shield shot."

Not faster then but I would think they would be about that speed. Unless its some exotic slow moving light beam coming from his eyes. But he should be able to keep Cap hoping until he can take him out. If Cap throws his shield, he should have enough time to blast it and alter the trajectory and of course he could always bounce his blasts with trick shots too. Not that I'm saying he would win, but with that long range weapon he has a good chance.

#7 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

his shield can protect

#8 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

Also Cap could use trick shots to. He could throw his sheild off this or that and catch Cyclops off guard.
Post Edited:2007-06-29 19:10:18

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#9 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"Also Cap could use trick shots to. He could throw his sheild off this or that and catch Cyclops off guard.
Post Edited:2007-06-29 19:10:18"

Possibly and if Cyclops tries tracking the shield so that he can blast it off course before it ricochets in his direction, Cap could get in close and engage him in hand to hand. But he better knock him out quick because all Cyclops has to do is press that button in his glove and open his visor.

#10 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"Gambler says:
"Also Cap could use trick shots to. He could throw his sheild off this or that and catch Cyclops off guard.
Post Edited:2007-06-29 19:10:18"
Possibly and if Cyclops tries tracking the shield so that he can blast it off course before it ricochets in his direction, Cap could get in close and engage him in hand to hand. But he better knock him out quick because all Cyclops has to do is press that button in his glove and open his visor."

All valid points but I bet Cyc has a glass jaw.

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#11 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"All valid points but I bet Cyc has a glass jaw."

lol if he doesn't Cap would make it look like he did.

#12 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

i think it could go either way. Cyclops has a lot of hand to hand training and has been shown to hold his own against wolverine.

#13 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"i think it could go either way. Cyclops has a lot of hand to hand training and has been shown to hold his own against wolverine. "

Why do people always use Wolverine as a gage? Captain America would kick the tar outta Logan. In fact I'm pretty sure he has.

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#14 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"acewasp23 says:
"i think it could go either way. Cyclops has a lot of hand to hand training and has been shown to hold his own against wolverine. "
Why do people always use Wolverine as a gage? Captain America would kick the tar outta Logan. In fact I'm pretty sure he has."

lol because wolverine is an X-man and so isnt Cyclops.

what do you want me to say Cyclops can hold his own against Daredevil or the Black Panther. i cant there not x-men and they dont cross over that often, so wolverine it is.

#15 Posted by Shattered Hand (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Back in the Secret War, Cap's shield took a full blast Human Torch Nova from like 5 ft away and was fine...but then Cyclops has often been described as being able to "level mountains" with his beams...but then Cap's shield has taken beats from Thor with the Odin Force before it actually got dented...so I think i'd have to go with Cap. If it somehow degenerated into a fist fight then Cyclops would get battered.

#16 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Shattered Hand says:

"Back in the Secret War, Cap's shield took a full blast Human Torch Nova from like 5 ft away and was fine...but then Cyclops has often been described as being able to "level mountains" with his beams...but then Cap's shield has taken beats from Thor with the Odin Force before it actually got dented...so I think i'd have to go with Cap. If it somehow degenerated into a fist fight then Cyclops would get battered."

No one is saying that Cap's shield isn't invulnerable. And it is made out of vibranium so it soaks up most of the kinetic force directed at it. But it can only absorb so much force. So when Cyclops opens up with a full blast at his shield it would be enough to (not even scratch the shield) but knock Cap off of his feet and send him flying.

#17 Posted by Shattered Hand (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah man I wasn't arguing that his shield was invulnerable, I was just saying that he took that Nova from 5ft away and didn't budge. Plus even when he took that full powered Thor swing to the shield that dented it, it didn't even knock him THAT far away...your probably right but I think it'll be a similar scenario as in the Secret Wars, it'll merc everything AROUND him but he may be able to stand his ground against it.

#18 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap's long range weapon has a significant advantage over Cyke's in that in can be used separately from his body allowing him to attack in more than one direction at a time. Cyke can bounce his beams but it's not quite the same (plus Cap can bounce his shield too). Cyclops is a good fighter, but not on the same level as Cap. About the FTL beams, I disagree. Too many characters have dodged his beams for me to believe that they're even close to light speed. Also, they're beams of concussive force, not actual light so I wouldn't expect them to go as fast as light.

Cap vs Cyclops in a game of pool would be a better "fight".

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#19 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

cap throws shield takes out his glases and then he closes his eyes afarid of hurting people and cap comes knock him out

#20 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Cap's long range weapon has a significant advantage over Cyke's in that in can be used separately from his body allowing him to attack in more than one direction at a time. Cyke can bounce his beams but it's not quite the same (plus Cap can bounce his shield too). Cyclops is a good fighter, but not on the same level as Cap. About the FTL beams, I disagree. Too many characters have dodged his beams for me to believe that they're even close to light speed. Also, they're beams of concussive force, not actual light so I wouldn't expect them to go as fast as light. Cap vs Cyclops in a game of pool would be a better "fight"."

I was never arguing that Cyclops would win, just that he would have a decent chance. His beams do get dodged an awful lot and though I think that's just to make the story interesting, I'll go along with it being so slow that Cap can actually dodge it. But then again Cyke can spread the beam so wide that Cap would have to crouch down behind his shield to keep from getting pulverized or wait until Cap throws his shield and then give him one of those wide blasts. That should at least net him a tie when the shield bounces off a few walls and hits him in the head.

#21 Posted by Shattered Hand (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Well the fight is in the middle of an abandoned city so I doubt anyone would get hurt :P But the thing about Cyclops if he goes full power is the sheer size of the beam. When he went full power against the Sentinal in Astonishing Xmen he not only destroyed it but almost practically destroyed the giant forest behind it.

#22 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

Shattered Hand says:

"Well the fight is in the middle of an abandoned city so I doubt anyone would get hurt :P But the thing about Cyclops if he goes full power is the sheer size of the beam. When he went full power against the Sentinal in Astonishing Xmen he not only destroyed it but almost practically destroyed the giant forest behind it."

cap shield is vibranium can't be break

#23 Posted by Shattered Hand (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah but the arguement was that it would be powerful enough to knock him back and maybe stun him, which does seem plausible enough. It all depends on how much of the concussive force it would absorb.

#24 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

true

#25 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"I was never arguing that Cyclops would win, just that he would have a decent chance. His beams do get dodged an awful lot and though I think that's just to make the story interesting, I'll go along with it being so slow that Cap can actually dodge it. But then again Cyke can spread the beam so wide that Cap would have to crouch down behind his shield to keep from getting pulverized or wait until Cap throws his shield and then give him one of those wide blasts. That should at least net him a tie when the shield bounces off a few walls and hits him in the head."

I'm not saying Cyclops loses every time, just that he's outmatched in H2H and Cap has a slight advantage in the long range attack area as well. He can overcome these advantages with the multiple ways he can use his beam. For example, the huge blast that covers the whole area would be unavoidable. I think what you said, with them both getting knocked out is likely to be what would happen.

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#26 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"I'm not saying Cyclops loses every time, just that he's outmatched in H2H and Cap has a slight advantage in the long range attack area as well. He can overcome these advantages with the multiple ways he can use his beam. For example, the huge blast that covers the whole area would be unavoidable. I think what you said, with them both getting knocked out is likely to be what would happen. "

Then we're in agreement. Great minds think alike.

#27 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

A direct blast from Cyk would mess up Cap pretty bad, but Cap would block with his shield. It could go either way but I'm giving this to Cap, mainly because Cyk annoys me.

#28 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

spiderman0409 says:

"cap throws shield takes out his glases and then he closes his eyes afarid of hurting people and cap comes knock him out"

yeah i made the fight in an abandoned city to avoid any out side interference. plus you never see these to together and i think it would be a decent battle.

#29 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

The fight would go like this:

Cyclops: eye beam, eye beam, eye beam.

Captain America: deflect, dodge, deflect, kick Scott in the groin.

#30 Posted by Warfear (20 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops once decimated celestials arm

#31 Posted by The Liberator (20 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, some of you guys have been saying that Cap would get knocked backwards while blocking Scott's eye beams. I don't think Scott can generate this much force because in West Coast Avengers #48 Cap jumps from about nine stories up down to the ground with his shield underneath him(Legs and body tucked into the shield). He explains he's fine because his shield is able to absorb and dissipate impact so well that as long as he has the shield underneath him, he'll be fine. Added to that someone mentioned him taking a Nova blast from the torch from 5 feet away without budging, and I'm pretty sure that in terms of blast power that's stronger than what Scott can manage, but maybe not. Any freaking way, if Cap can take on Spidey in hand to hand (Civil War) and whip him, I know that Cyclops would be down for the count pretty quickly. And for the record, I read someone say earlier that Cylops could equal Wolverine in a straight up hand to hand fight; I've gotta say that is so freaking ridiculous. Wolverine is hundreds of years old with experience hardened from every major war since World War One and special ops experience amongst other things. To lay a finger on Wolverine, claws or not, adamantium or not, healing factor or not, you have to be one of the best, and Cyclops knows his way around a fight, but Wolverine would bitch slap the optic powers straight out of Cylops' skull. Even if Cyclops did land a hit on Wolverine, what happens to your bones when you punch a wall of adamantium? Even if Wolverine blocked one of cyclops' hits, that's it, fight over, he's broken Scott's arm. Back to topic. Cap beats Cylops into a fine paste. Period.
Post Edited:2007-07-04 21:29:11

#32 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote Cap. If Cap can protect himself enough from the Blasts and can hit Cyclops at least one time, it's over from there.

#33 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

The Liberator says:

"Any freaking way, if Cap can take on Spidey in hand to hand (Civil War) and whip him
Post Edited:2007-07-04 21:29:11"

Cap shouldn't have been able to even hit Peter as stated by Buckshot on multiple occassions. If anything, if Pete wanted too, he could've just webbed Cap up and kicked his ass. Peter would've won not Man to Man but Spider to Man. Re-read the issue.

#34 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"The Liberator says:
"Any freaking way, if Cap can take on Spidey in hand to hand (Civil War) and whip him
Post Edited:2007-07-04 21:29:11"
Cap shouldn't have been able to even hit Peter as stated by Buckshot on multiple occassions. If anything, if Pete wanted too, he could've just webbed Cap up and kicked his ass. Peter would've won not Man to Man but Spider to Man. Re-read the issue."

Too true. Spiderman would be way too much for Cap.

#35 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

If Cyc pulled off a direct hit on Cap he would take him out, or at least do considerable damage. Cap would block with his shield, probably getting knocked back or pushed back with his feet on the ground. Not sure if Cyc would keep using his optic blast for too long, but he would be considerably weakened if he blasted for too long. Cap could also dodge the optic blast and throw his shield, pretty much taking out Cyc. Scott's no match for Cap in hand to hand, so if cap gets the opportunity to get in close it's lights out.

2-1 Captain America.

#36 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"Eternal Chaos says:
"The Liberator says:
"Any freaking way, if Cap can take on Spidey in hand to hand (Civil War) and whip him
Post Edited:2007-07-04 21:29:11"
Cap shouldn't have been able to even hit Peter as stated by Buckshot on multiple occassions. If anything, if Pete wanted too, he could've just webbed Cap up and kicked his ass. Peter would've won not Man to Man but Spider to Man. Re-read the issue."
Too true. Spiderman would be way too much for Cap."

Thank you.

#37 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Something else that could happen is that Scott'll fire at the Cap, Cap'll block the shot and charge at Cyclops while Cyclops is firing away. Being Cap is much faster than Cyclops, he'll toss the shield at Cy, and when cy shoots it away, Cap'll have gotten in range, grabbed his arm, thrown him down onto the floor, dislocated his arm and broke his neck.

#38 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"Something else that could happen is that Scott'll fire at the Cap, Cap'll block the shot and charge at Cyclops while Cyclops is firing away. Being Cap is much faster than Cyclops, he'll toss the shield at Cy, and when cy shoots it away, Cap'll have gotten in range, grabbed his arm, thrown him down onto the floor, dislocated his arm and broke his neck."

Of course Cyke could shoot the shield away and then turn his head in time to blast Cap, knocking him out completely. That scenario would depend on whether Cyke would notice that Cap was setting him up for an attack like that, and keep enough distance between the two of them so that Cap couldn't rush him quickly enough.

#39 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"Something else that could happen is that Scott'll fire at the Cap, Cap'll block the shot and charge at Cyclops while Cyclops is firing away. Being Cap is much faster than Cyclops, he'll toss the shield at Cy, and when cy shoots it away, Cap'll have gotten in range, grabbed his arm, thrown him down onto the floor, dislocated his arm and broke his neck."

Or, Cyclops bounces a beam off the shield towards Cap, hitting both before they reach him. It's the kind of thing he would do and has done (not to cap, but to multiple targets and moving targets). He could also just duck the one that isn't alive and able to improvise (the shield, duh) and blast Cap out of the air now that he's defenseless. I don't like when you write stories, they're always very one sided. I know you're just saying how it could play out, but when it could play out so that the other guy wins in your own scenario, you shouldn't ignore it.

Moderator
#40 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Eternal Chaos says:
"Something else that could happen is that Scott'll fire at the Cap, Cap'll block the shot and charge at Cyclops while Cyclops is firing away. Being Cap is much faster than Cyclops, he'll toss the shield at Cy, and when cy shoots it away, Cap'll have gotten in range, grabbed his arm, thrown him down onto the floor, dislocated his arm and broke his neck."
Or, Cyclops bounces a beam off the shield towards Cap, hitting both before they reach him. It's the kind of thing he would do and has done (not to cap, but to multiple targets and moving targets). He could also just duck the one that isn't alive and able to improvise (the shield, duh) and blast Cap out of the air now that he's defenseless. I don't like when you write stories, they're always very one sided. I know you're just saying how it *could* play out, but when it could play out so that the other guy wins in your own scenario, you shouldn't ignore it."

I'm not ignoring anything. I don't have anything against either character just stating a possibility. Also about the whole shield getting shot back at Cap, I'm saying what if Cap gets close enough and throws it he ducks under the Shield and punches Cyclops. I never said He throws the Shield like 10 feet away, I'm saying he throws it at like 5 feet. and being he's fast, he can get there fast enough. or he just keeps charging and stopping to deal with cyclops' shots.

#41 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"I'm not ignoring anything. I don't have anything against either character just stating a possibility. Also about the whole shield getting shot back at Cap, I'm saying *what if* Cap gets close enough and throws it he ducks under the Shield and punches Cyclops. I never said He throws the Shield like 10 feet away, I'm saying he throws it at like 5 feet. and being he's fast, he can get there fast enough. or he just keeps charging and stopping to deal with cyclops' shots. "

Yes, you're stating a possibility, but not looking at others that can occur in your very own scenario. I didn't say the shield gets knocked back at cap, I said the beam bounces off of the shield and towards Cap, something that Cyclops has done before. Being so accurate at bouncing his beams and predicting the positions of himself and his enemy is why he's so good at pool. And you don't think that Cyclops can shoot as soon as he sees Cap using his shield as a weapon and no longer a defensive item? And why can't Cyclops duck and shoot like Cap ducks and punches? I know Cap is faster, but his shield has been dodged before. Also, you're adding things to your scenario, things like distance and how Cap reacts to his shield coming back at him. You also totally ignore how Cap closed in on him.

Moderator
#42 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Eternal Chaos says:
" I'm not ignoring anything. I don't have anything against either character just stating a possibility. Also about the whole shield getting shot back at Cap, I'm saying *what if* Cap gets close enough and throws it he ducks under the Shield and punches Cyclops. I never said He throws the Shield like 10 feet away, I'm saying he throws it at like 5 feet. and being he's fast, he can get there fast enough. or he just keeps charging and stopping to deal with cyclops' shots. "
Yes, you're stating a possibility, but not looking at others that can occur in your very own scenario. I didn't say the shield gets knocked back at cap, I said the beam bounces off of the shield and towards Cap, something that Cyclops has done before. Being so accurate at bouncing his beams and predicting the positions of himself and his enemy is why he's so good at pool. And you don't think that Cyclops can shoot as soon as he sees Cap using his shield as a weapon and no longer a defensive item? And why can't Cyclops duck and shoot like Cap ducks and punches? I know Cap is faster, but his shield has been dodged before. Also, you're adding things to your scenario, things like distance and how Cap reacts to his shield coming back at him. You also totally ignore how Cap closed in on him."

I'm only stating the distance. There's a numerous amount of ways this fight can go, but the overall is that we think Cap is going to win, right or wrong?

#43 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

And I'm telling you that even if your scenario where Cap wins, it's possible for Cyclops to win, but you don't see that side of it. As I said before, I think it could go either way or easily end in a stalemate like Forever said. Cap has a physical advantage but it would be hard for him to get close to use it, and even up close, it just makes it easier for Cyclops to hit him. He also has an amazing defense, but if he gives it up to attack, then Cyclops can put him down without effort. Plus, the defense is one-sided and Cyclops is an expert and maneuvering his beams to hit from directions other than head on.

Moderator
#44 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"And I'm telling you that even if your scenario where Cap wins, it's possible for Cyclops to win, but you don't see that side of it. As I said before, I think it could go either way or easily end in a stalemate like Forever said. Cap has a physical advantage but it would be hard for him to get close to use it, and even up close, it just makes it easier for Cyclops to hit him. He also has an amazing defense, but if he gives it up to attack, then Cyclops can put him down without effort. Plus, the defense is one-sided and Cyclops is an expert and maneuvering his beams to hit from directions other than head on. "

A stalemate is possible, I'm just saying I think could win and I'm giving that scenerio

#45 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"A stalemate is possible, I'm just saying I think could win and I'm giving that scenerio"

But that's the problem. Your scenario leaves it open for Cyclops to win even though its purpose is to show that Cap wins. If you can make a scenario where Cap wins without a possibility of Cyclops winning (but without ignoring the strengths of Cyclops) then it's fine, but the one you made already isn't one where only Cap can win. You're trying to show that Cap will win, but in the situation you created to show it, Cyclops can win too.


Post Edited:2007-07-04 23:36:37

Moderator
#46 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Eternal Chaos says:
" A stalemate is possible, I'm just saying I think could win and I'm giving that scenerio"
But that's the problem. Your scenario leaves it open for Cyclops to win even though its purpose is to show that Cap wins. If you can make a scenario where Cap wins without a possibility of Cyclops winning (but without ignoring the strengths of Cyclops) then it's fine, but the one you made already isn't one where *only* Cap can win. "

Ah ok. I see what you mean.

#47 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone disagree with 2-1 odds in favor of Cap?

#48 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Most times out of ten (maybe 7) Cap would win.

Altghough both are tactical genius's, Cap does have the endurance edge.

Cyclops however can not only really on his optic beam (which definately travels a lot slower than light speed - it's about the same speed as a repulsor blast from the look of things) to attack Cap. He can attack buildings - shattering walls to drop debris on Cap and keep Cap having to use the shield to protect himself and dodge.

I do think that in around 1 minute, Cap would win in a straigth hand to hand fight but the key here is both are great 'soldiers'. They plan, attack, move, counter attack etc.

As mentioned before but to just clarify, even on his best day Cyclops could not damage the shield. For all intents and purposes it is indestructible except against molecular rearrangers. It does disperse kinectic energy as Cap and the shield have been hit by the Hulk before and not been knocked back significantly.

Both are very skilled in bouncing attacks - particularly Cyclops as he has a higher order grasp of spatial geometries.

Still favour Cap though.

#49 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"As mentioned before but to just clarify, even on his best day Cyclops could not damage the shield. For all intents and purposes it is indestructible except against molecular rearrangers. It does disperse kinectic energy as Cap and the shield have been hit by the Hulk before and not been knocked back significantly."

I dont think that anyone, at any time in this thread, said that the shield could be damaged. People keep bringing it up, but we all know that the shield is for all intents and purposes (certainly regarding this battle) indesctructable.

#50 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"The_Creator says:
"As mentioned before but to just clarify, even on his best day Cyclops could not damage the shield. For all intents and purposes it is indestructible except against molecular rearrangers. It does disperse kinectic energy as Cap and the shield have been hit by the Hulk before and not been knocked back significantly."
I dont think that anyone, at any time in this thread, said that the shield could be damaged. People keep bringing it up, but we all know that the shield is for all intents and purposes (certainly regarding this battle) indesctructable. "

Sorry. That was a slight vibe I was getting from the first page.