CW Arrow vs MCU Captain America vs Frank Miller Batman

I skimmed it. The text walls aren't too appealing. And I don't need to agree with Jayc on this. Frankly my argument amounts to about the same as the one Frozen presented you in the MCU Cap with Miller Batman thread - he's on a massively higher tier of martial sophistication. And Arrow's been wrecked by people weaker than Batman who were just using their strength. Batman will do worse.

This isn't MCU Cap though, I'm talking about Arrow. If you want pressure points, his showings are actually WAY better than Batman's. And who exactly has wrecked Arrow by virtue of sheer strength, and also happens to be weaker than Batman? This sounds like just massive hype on Batman's part simply because he's a comic book character, and simultaneous ignorance on Arrow's part.

@nickzambuto: No they aren't, not in application or effect. People with Mirakuru. They're weaker than Batman and you know full well the feats that justify that.

Man you guys can be so complicated in your made up rules to justify Batman being a better fighter than he is. "Martial sophistication" and "application or effect", you're just being needlessly wordy. That is not how you determine the skill of a fighter.

I implore you read my previous posts because Batman is actually physically inferior to Oliver as well as mentally inferior. He has better strength feats, not by a lot but I admit he does. That's it. I was afraid you would say Mirakuru soldiers, and the idea of him being stronger than anybody with Mirakuru just makes my heart rage a lot more than it probably should. Sigh

Solomon Grundy broke down a giant reinforced-titanium warehouse hangar door with a couple hits, his strength is said to be comparable to a crane or a forklift, he was even able to lift an industrial centrifuge into the air and carry it over one shoulder like it was nothing. What can Batman do again? Kick a dead tree down? The guy was a legitimate 10 tonner, Mirakuru makes you superhuman, and they even have the speed to match. Solomon Grundy was literally speedblitzing security guards before they could react, and every strike he threw would audibly slice through the air like a torpedo. When was the last time ANY version of Batman fought someone who was literally 20x stronger and faster than him through sheer skill?

@nickzambuto: Agreed.

You're the first. I'm so glad one person doesn't think I'm crazy.

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Um are you talking about just Miller's versions of Batman or any comic book versions of Batman? Because throughout comics Batman has displayed feats far superior to CW Ollie and comic book Ollie, they're not even comparable.

@nickzambuto: It's just me and you then.

Miller Batman stomps Arrow and beats Cap.

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You think he can take MCU cap?

Most certainly not in melee. But CW Arrow's skillset is a lot more versatile than simple generalizations like "hand-to-hand and archery". He's a phenomenal tactician with underrated stealth, most importantly he has the method to put Captain America down (a few methods actually, like the horse tranq arrow, explosive arrows, or viper venom arrow to name a few) so all it would take is a bit of creativity, and ultimately Oliver's versatility in his abilities will triumph over Captain America's superhuman strength.

@nickzambuto: Do you think he can shoot cap though? Steve is pretty agile and he has the shield. I imagine Steve could block his arrows. Steve has some decent stealth feats and tactical feats I would say.

@jashro44: Going against Cap directly is a gamble. During their second fight Oliver was able to lure Bronze Tiger in close with tactical shots, then right as Tiger got up close, Oliver fired two arrows simultaneously. Tiger was only able to cut one and the other nabbed him; he tanked it, but then it turned out to be an electrical arrow and Oliver defeated him. So while Cap is more agile, his reflexes are inferior to Bronze Tiger, and Tiger had his claws for protection just like Cap has his shield. Using other strategies Oliver has also been able to tag Malcolm Merlyn, Deathstroke, and the Flash. My point is that it's definitely POSSIBLE for Oliver to tag Captain America head-on, but I don't think he NEEDS to. The above characters all FORCED Oliver into a head-on encounter; Tiger and Merlyn were both better at stealth so that wasn't an option, Flash had superspeed, and Oliver vs Slade was personal. He needed to rely on his pure quick thinking and creativity against them. With Cap, not so much, Oliver should DEFINITELY be able to use stealth very effectively against him. I know Cap has a few decent stealth feats, but CW Arrow is pretty insane, he constantly disappears on people when there's no visible cover or logical way to disappear, and his senses are advanced enough that he regularly picks up on things that other people don't even notice. There's an instance in season 1 where he and Laurel are on a rooftop talking about criminals and stuff in the middle of a heavy rainstorm, and suddenly Oliver pauses in midsentence, then rapidly finishes what he had to say. Laurel asks what's wrong and he responds that they were coming; suddenly a SWAT team busts in from the staircase 20 feet away, Oliver somehow detected them sneaking through a bunch of walls, despite both the rain and not even being on guard. So Cap's half decent stealth feats really aren't going to be a factor, Oliver will vanish on him just like he's vanished on other highly trained/super powered characters; John Diggle, Mr. Blank, Nyssa al Ghul, Solomon Grundy, and the Flash. Oliver regularly infiltrates heavily elite locations like ARGUS HQ with ease, and he has even eavesdropped on the whole Mirakuru army without being detected, despite their superhuman senses. Cap's senses and instincts aren't enough to detect him.

So Oliver has two options here; risk a head-to-head confrontation and try to outmaneuver Cap, or use stealth. Given how tactical he is I don't see why he wouldn't be able to pull off at least one of these.

Batman wins.

frank miller

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I don't think those are apart of his "standard equipment". The horse tranq he brought along was prep for Barry right? An explosive arrow can be dodged & blocked with the shield. He dodged & blocked bullets at close range i.e final fight with WS aboard the helicarrier. The only argument for Ollie beating Cap use to be skill but after TWS & AoU we've seen how skillful Cap is. Cap has superior physicals, durability & the skill level is pretty close as well, without prep Ollie can't take Cap

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@nickzambuto: I just love to watch you work.

Between Batman and Cap. Arrow doesn't have a chance.

I'm leaning towards Captain America.

@the_real_seaman: Why thank you.

@nickzambuto: you always have such a well thought out argument. You earned a follow.

Cap.

Bump.

Eh. Probably Cap bu Batman is close.

I think Oliver can take MCU cap depending on gear. I'm undecided how earth 31 batman does here. Hard to compare comics and live action, but I think the spawn crossover is kind of the big feat that makes me unsure. Outside of his showing with Simmons I think Arrow can beat him honestly. All though even classic spawn was pretty OP for a street level....

Leaning towards MCU Cap, but I can definitely see an argument being made for any of them