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#1 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio


  • · Team chemistry comes into play.
  • · Knowledge is only on actual Knowledge of character has on other.
  • · Random Battles every time.
  • · Moral On. In Character.
  • · All Cannon Feats apply, unless stated all Feat Applies
  • · Will be Special Scenarios and at Times Obejectives. No need to even defeat your enemy.
  • · All Throwing Weapons, Arrows, and Ammo Weapons have a 100 cap unless Specified.




11) Venom Flash (Dual Machine Guns, Dual Pistols, 5 Grenades)

6) Winter Soldier (Bionic Arm, Sniper Rifle, Machine Gun, 5 Grenades)

3) Dare Devil (Billy Clubs)

2) Only the Main Team gain the Super Grenade Pack includes 5 Grenades, 5 Flashbangs, 5 Tear Gas, 5 WPs, and 5 Claymores.

1) 1 Weapon type (or Pair if they are Dual) Cancels Healing Factors of any kind for 1 Minuet. (Winter Soldier)

4) Whole Team Gains Ribbons, this allows total Immunity to ANY Status Effects. (Includes Illusions, TP, Poison, Burning, Freezing, and Chemical Weapons)

3) 1 Member Gains the Red Eye Drug, Venom Drug, and Banshee Drug. This allows added 2 Ton Strength, Bullet Time Reaction time on top of their own Reaction Time, and Wolverine Healing Factor. (Daredevil)

1) 1 Member Gains Halo Mjolnir Armour with Shields and Radar. No Stat Enhancers added. (Winter Soldier)

1) Com Gear with Headsets for Whole Team.

2) No more Bad Blood, this will removes Rivalries.

1) 1 Member is Morals off. (Venom)


13) Blackstar (His Weapon)

8) Nicholas D. Wolfwood (Punisher Cross, 5 Missiles, 5 Grenades, Knife)

1) Take one Point from Gear to be used Toward Main Team Points

1) 1 Member Gains a Ribbon, this allows total Immunity to ANY Status Effects. (Includes Illusions, TP, Poison, Burning, Freezing, and Chemical Weapons)(Taken Twice)

3) 1 Weapon type (or Pair if they are Dual) is Unbreakable and Cancels Healing Factors of any kind for 1 Minuet.(Wolfwood)

1) 1 Range Weapon other than a Explosive Round kind has Infinite Ammo.(Wolfwood)

2) 1 Member Gains a complete Vibranium Suit.(Wolfwood)

3) 1 Member Gains the Red Eye Drug, Venom Drug, and Banshee Drug. This allows added 2 Ton Strength, Bullet Time Reaction time on top of their own Reaction Time, and Wolverine Healing Factor.(Black Star)

1) 1 Weapon type (or Pair if they are Dual) Cancels Healing Factors of any kind for 1 Minuet. (Black Star)

2) Teamwork, your team functions like an oil machine knowing fully what the other is capable of. Rivalries still exist however.

1) Com Gear with Headsets for Whole Team.


For your first Mission you must Prove yourself able to be able to do bushiness. There is a important Scientist working on new Nano Tech that can revolutionize the pharmaceutics market. However this Scientist refuses to do business with us. We are sending you in for a quick Grab and Tag mission.

This man is locked up and surrounded by 30 Security Guards made up of Ex special Forces armed with Assault Rifles station inside the House.

He is locked in a Adamantium Vault. We provided you with the Electronic Hack device that will take 5 minuets to unlock the Vault in the House.

After the Vault is unlocked, a secondary trip alarm will set, giving you a total of 10 minuets to escape with the Scientist and his Notes to the Pick up point back where you started.

There will be a Enemy Team out there from our Competitors. How you deal with them is up to you. Top Team is Red. Bottom Team is Blue.


For this mission you will have access to 1 of these Devices.

1) Auto Unlock, Unlocks the Vault Door Automatically.

2) 5 Minuet Stealth Suit, although still experimental this suit will bend light for 5 minuets.

3) Pick Up Service, the Pick Up crew will extract you from their Adamantium Hover Jet from the House Roof instead back at your pick up point, they will not reach you till 4 minuets however.

#2 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: @higorm

Auto-Unlock for me.

Black Star


  • Tsubaki
  • Ribbon (via Perk)
  • Weapon cancels healing factors (via Perk)

Superhuman Strength - Black Star can easily hold 40 or more tons on his own without assistance. He can leap incredible distances, and has incredible striking power to back up his strength.

Superhuman Durability - Slashing attacks that cut through entire walls of castles only left minor wounds in Black Star, however, he has gotten much stronger since then. Recently, attacks that could destroy entire buildings were blocked by Black Star. He has incredible resistance to all kinds of injuries, and bullets are useless against him. As would most forms of modern weaponry (grenades, rocket launchers, bullets, etc.).

Superhuman Reflexes - Black Star has been able to dodge an entire squadron of machine gun fire since his first appearance, and has only gotten better since that point.

Superhuman Speed - Black Star is the fastest character in Soul Eater at his base levels. He can further amplify his speed using Tsubaki to unknown levels.

Expert Martial Artist - Black Star has spent his entire life dedicated to learning to fight. He is a master assassin, a weapons master, an expert in hand to hand combat, and has created entire fighting styles on the fly purely for the sake of fighting an opponent.

Soul Menace - Black Star can project his soul wavelength through the air and forcibly push it into somebodies body. This can knock a person out cold in a single strike if they are not capable of tuning their body against it or unless they have an incredibly powerful soul (which it still causes extreme discomfort and damage)

Big Wave - A much more powerful version of Soul Menace. It stuns an opponent initially, and then pushes a huge portion of his soul wavelength into another person's.

Planet Destruction Cannon - A more powerful version of Soul Menace. Not as powerful as Big Wave, but it's much quicker, and requires nothing more than a simple palm strike.

Tsubaki (Weapon):

  • Uncanny Sword Form - Projects a powerful shadow from Black Star (as well as a katana). It can be used to crush opponents, or can be used like a whip (causing slashing damage).
  • Chain Form - Incredibly defensive form. This provides a chain that constantly protects Black Star from incoming attacks. It also has incredible range, at least as far as his the shadow form, and has two sword sized weapons that come with it.
  • Clone - Tsubaki becomes a clone of Black Star. Her physical stats are enhanced to be similar to his (though she does not retain his fighting ability). She is an extremely skilled fighter, and though she can't match Black Star, she is still a top tier fighter.
  • Shuriken Form - In this form, Tsubaki allows Black Star to project powerful energy blasts, create a constantly spinning, wrist weapon, extreme cutting power, and has a lot of range.
  • Ninja Blade - Amplifies Black Star's speed to incredible levels. He can move so fast that he can create a swarm of after images in a moment.
  • Masamune - Transforms into a powerful Katana. It also allows Black Star to use his shadow as a weapon and as an extra appendage.
  • Shield Star - Creates a giant Star Shaped pattern in a target location, capable of blocking any attack that has been thrown at it thus far.
  • Trap Star - Creates a large Star Shaped pattern in target location, can be used to completely trap a target inside of Tsubaki's chains.
  • Speed Star - Similar tor the Ninja Blade, amplifies his speed to such a degree that he can't actually be seen.


Healing Factor (via Perk) - Black Star possesses a healing factor on par with Wolverine's

Bane's Venom (via Perk) - Negligibly increase in strength.

Increased Reflexes (via Perk) - Increases his reflexes proportionally by the amount of a bullet timer (whatever that means).

Nicholas D. Wolfwood


  • Punisher Cross
    • Machine Gun (Contains 2 in the front for dual fire)
    • Rocket Launcher (5 Rockets)
  • 5 Grenades
  • Knife
  • Ribbon (via Perk)
  • Vibranium Suit (via Perk)
  • Weapon attacks cancel healing factors (via Perk)
  • Weapons are indestructible (via Perk)
  • Unlimited Ammo (via Perk)

Superhuman Strength - Wolfwood possesses 2 ton strength or greater (because of the perk). He also carries that weapon of his around at all times, and it's been proven to be too heavy for most people to lift, let alone fire the way he does.

Superhuman Durability - Small caliber bullets don't do much harm to Wolfwood, and assault rifle fire leaves wounds, but not usually anything fatal. His durability is extremely enhanced due to experimental procedures performed on him.

Superhuman Reflexes - Wolfwood can dodge rockets and bullet fire pretty effortlessly.

Superhuman Speed - Wolfwood can run at superhuman speeds.

Regenerative Healing Factor - Fatal wounds to a normal person would only take a couple days for Wolfwood to recover. This also allows him increased stamina, and the ability to heal from minor injuries in minutes.

Superb Marksman - Wolfwood has been trained to fire under all conditions, including while under extreme stress and injury. He is a top tier marksman.

Adaptive Fighting Style - If he fights an opponent for more than a few minutes, he will learn their movements and adapt his own fighting style to take advantages of his opponent's weaknesses.

Expert trained fighter - Wolfwood was trained to be a top tier fighter and assassin, and to fight under any and all conditions.


Vibranium Suit - I'm guessing like Black Panthers, gives him a Vibranium mesh-weave suit. This grants almost limitless protection against piercing and bludgeoning attacks. It doesn't grant perfect protection against slashing attacks, however.


Black Star grabs Nicholas, and rushes him all the way to the vault. Nicholas will take a sniper position and protect the building from enemy fire.

He is the fastest person here by leaps and bounds. He can easily cover that distance, probably in less than the span of a minute, and drop Nicholas off.

He will then slaughter all the guards in a few seconds. Their bullets are useless against him, and he can overwhelm them in an instant thanks to Tsubaki.

He then rushes out with the scientist at full speed (10 minutes is not an issue), and then grabs Nicholas and works his way to the team's starting point.

After that they wait for the pick up.

Thanks for reading,


#3 Posted by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio


hate to debate against those anime characters!

well @floopay let´s do this!

I´ll post my strategy later tonight..

#4 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

This is Millenium Walter. His Peak.

#5 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm: To clarify, no Regen Vials for Nicholas D. Wolfwood. Edited my original post to show that.

Thanks for reading,

#6 Edited by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 @floopay

Okay here we go!


Venom Flash (Dual Machine Guns, Dual Pistols, 5 Grenades)

1 Member is Morals off.

Winter Soldier (Bionic Arm, Sniper Rifle, Machine Gun, 5 Grenades)

1 Weapon type (or Pair if they are Dual) Cancels Healing Factors of any kind for 1 Minuet.

1 Member Gains Halo Mjolnir Armour with Shields and Radar. No Stat Enhancers added.

DareDevil (Billy Clubs)

1 Member Gains the Red Eye Drug, Venom Drug, and Banshee Drug. This allows added 2 Ton Strength, Bullet Time Reaction time on top of their own Reaction Time, and Wolverine Healing Factor.


For this mission you will have access to 1 of these Devices.

1) Auto Unlock, Unlocks the Vault Door Automatically.


I believe that Venom is the fastest considering his Superhuman Speed, Agility, and Reflexes. So he will use his own Camouflage Capabilities to run straight up to the vault and considering that his morals are Off here, he will get there really fast. Those 30 Security Guards won´t be able to do much thing against him, bullets can´t harm the Venom, and he can just shoot them all using *multiple weapons* at the same time. He can also use a tear-gas grenade since none of those guards seems to have any protection against it, saving some bullets. Barnes and Murdock will be there using the com gear for a general backup ready to help Flash if needed. After that the Agent will use the perk to save 5 minutes and automatically open the vault, grab the scientist and his notes and get the hell out of there, going back to the starting point, to wait for the pick up, safe and sound.

#7 Posted by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Well one of yas will have to kill the other if both succeeded.

#11 Edited by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm: Floops be back. He may be busy with his 2-3 jobs right now lol.

#13 Posted by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm: Floops be back. He may be busy with his 2-3 jobs right now lol.


#14 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio


There's only 1 scientist, and therefore only 1 of us can succeed.

That sounds nice, but I don't think Flash is anywhere near Black Star's level of speed.

When Black Star enters speed mode, he can't even be seen, he's just a blur. Originally, he had a hard time using it because he couldn't hold traction if the surface was slick at all. However, once he mastered Tsubaki, he could move much, much faster.

Once he mastered it:

He moves at the speed a shadow can move at, leaves behind multiple after images, and not only does he leave behind after images, but they contain mass and can attack, and they feel like the real thing when they are hit.

Slingshotting himself via Shadow Manipulation

Because of this, he doesn't have to worry about any obstacles along the way, he can simply sling shot over every building and almost instantly arrive where he needs to be.

My team:

I have the speed advantage, and Black Star can traverse this entire map in moments, be in and out of that station, grab the scientist, and be back at my staring point in less than 3 minutes. He easily moves at mach speeds (massively in order to do the things he's doing).

Over and above this, if Black Star goes into Absolute Shadow form, I can have the numbers advantage as well.

Unless you can prove

Thanks for reading,


#15 Edited by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio


Ok, so I´ll present ways that my team have to take this..


Tracking - Daredevil's heightened senses make him particularly adept at tracking people. He uses his sense of smell to track their scent and his sense of hearing to discern vocal patterns, heartbeats and gait.

I agree that your team is faster, but my team have ways to track the scientist and your position in advance, thanks to the radar my team possess, not only Daredevil but also Winter Soldier with the mjolnir halo armor, which grants him such capability. Doesn´t matter if Black Star will get that first because at the moment my team realize that he´s already there, the game plan changes, I have 1 Agent with military training, 1 expert assassin with extensive combat and tactical training and a accomplished strategist to plan another assault. Venom will be operating through camouflage which grants him an advantage since your team doesn´t have superhuman senses to properly locate him. So the Agent Venom will be able to cross the place unnoticed. He can even set a trap to Black Star using his webbing to build a cobweb, making forcing the enemy to fall right into his trap. The team will be positioned waiting for his arrive to set the ambush.



Super Smell - Daredevil's sense of smell is so precise that he can focus on a person's smell and follow it through a crowd of people at a distance of 50 feet or gunpowder from a sniper rifle almost 3 blocks away. He also has a great ability to remember smells, so he can identify people by smell alone.

Even with the surrounding smells hindering his senses, Matt can still smell gunpowder from a sniper's gun two blocks away and several stories up:

So that turns ineffective any attempt from Nicholas to use his sniper against my team, considering that Matt will know it before he manage to pull the trigger, and with the help of the com gear, he will inform the rest of the team about the imminent danger, also giving the oportunity for my team to strike him back.

I did a research and found that Nicholas is an adept smoker, so that will make things easier for Daredevil to sense him through smell.


Super Hearing - Daredevil's hearing functions so well he can hear a person's heartbeat at a distance of over twenty feet, or people whispering on the other side of a standard soundproofed wall.


MJOLNIR - His MJOLNIR armor has multiple functions that help Barnes in the battlefield.

  • Helmet: The MJOLNIR Helmet is one of the most vital aspects to the MJOLNIR system. It is made of Titanium and contains key features like a HUD that links to the brain and hands, and can identify equipment and display information about it when it is picked up by the wearer. Another feature is the direct neural interface system which connects to a SPARTAN-IIs neural implants. Two core processor chips are implanted into the subjects skull in the rear of the head. This is essentially comparable to an on board computer using parts of the human brain for processing - when the connector at the rear of the subjects head and receptors in the brain link to the helmets on board sensors it creates the neural link needed to move the MJOLNIR suit. The helmet also contains other equipment to protect and aid the user in hostile conditions. This includes: filters to remove toxins from the atmosphere, a supply to provide air to the wearer during EVA, thermal and motion sensors, communications, solar-powered lighting, and imaging and video gear. The helmet also contains the A.I housing, where a ship-borne A.I chip is inserted, located on the back of the helmet.

Halo Radar

Thermal Vision (or in Halo 4, Promethean Vision)

Plan B

Let´s imagine my team notice that Black Star is too fast to fall into an ambush of any kind, so this is the cue for the Winter Soldier and his bionic arm. Bucky will release an Eletro Magnetic Pulse to shut down electrical hardware. He can do that before Black Star manage to get into the vault, so his auto-unlock will be useless and he will be vunerable since he doesn´t expect anything like that. Thenceforth your team will have no choice but to face my team until there is only one winner to finish the mission.

#16 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio


My team has comm links, and Black Star is dropping Nicholas outside of the scientist's hiding point.

Daredevil isn't the only one who can track movements via Radar and superior senses. The only thing is, Nicholas has all his senses enhanced to those levels.

Nicholas vs. Midvalley the Hornfreak

Here is him tracking through an entire city completely blind.

He then goes on to fight this guy completely blind, and tracks the guys movements by hearing his breathing, even through all the gunfire and distractions/noises going on around him.

Here is an explanation of his enhancements and some of his training.

Finally, his weapon:

It also contains RPGs.


Sounds like a good tactic, but I see one flaw. It looks like it requires touch, and has little to no range at all.

My basis for this claim? All the lights are on, even the ones directly adjacent to Tony Stark and Bucky Barnes, meaning the EMP couldn't even broadcast the 5 feet necessary to disable them.

So again, in order to use this tactic, your team would have to beat mine to the target location, which we've both established is highly unlikely.

If Wolfwood so much as hears, smells, or sees your team, Black Star will be instantly notified, and Nicholas can stall them with heavy gunfire, and RPG blasts.

Thanks for reading,


#17 Edited by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio


Sorry but I am not impressed by those feats at all, doesn´t seem that he was tracking through the entire city, and that´s Midvalley the Hornfreak right? Who uses a saxophone? Most of the marvel characters manage to track people like that, he doesn´t belong on Daredevil´s level of superhuman senses. I presented 3 different ways of tracking, radar, smell and hearing, all of them from a considerable distance, more then enough for this location. Nicholas will be positioned so he´s a easy target for Venom who will be sneaking up through the map using camouflage abilities, Nicholas won´t have time to pull the trigger since Daredevil can smell the gunpowder and also hear it.

Camouflage Capabilities: The symbiote is capable of mimicking the appearance of any form of clothing, camouflaging with its surroundings, and even mimicking other people.

He also possess the spider-sense, so he will be able to predict any sudden movement your team players try to do, it´s going to be really hard to catch him by surprise.

ESP (Spider-Sense): Venom also possesses an extrasensory ability similar to Spider-Man’s spider-sense. This response is not as complicated as Spider-Man’s inherent sense since the alien costume can detect danger from every direction and conduct the host in plenty of time. It's a lot more efficient than Spider-Man’s spider-sense because it takes less time to sense the danger, and his reflexes are faster than Spider-Man’s, because they are enhanced by the alien costume, for instance Venom can dodge a gunshot or a barrage of bullets.

Regular gunshots can´t harm the Venom, nor RPG´s since he has shown to be high resistant to explosions and fire.


It does require the touch but you see, Bucky have another way to overcome that by detaching the arm controling it by distance through his mental implants. All he need to do is demand the arm to crawl up a wall and EMP the crap out of the vault. That tactic worked did work before where Bucky used the arm to crawl from one part of the SHIELD helicarrier to another part and set him free.

#18 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio


Not only does he navigate across the city completely blinded, but he was being lured into a trap. He was capable of bypassing that attack, completely blind, even with all the noise happening around him, he could even hear the guys breathing through all the gunfire and saxaphone noise (and the girl yelling). And in an instant, before that trigger was pulled, he maneuvered his weapon (the Punisher) in front of her to protect her.

Nicholas Cage vs Tongari

This is another fight that takes place almost exclusively in the dark, at least for quite awhile.

There are a lot of feats here. First of all, he fights and kills this guy 7 times throughout this fight (he's called nine lives for a reason), and uses a wide variety of methods to do so.

There's a point where he shoots, and hits a rocket when it's only a foot or so from nine lives body, which means he shot just before, or at the same time as nine lives launched that rocket.

And I've skipped a lot of filler while posting this.

Black Star

This is his first appearance, and he was drastically weaker (physically, and in skill, etc.) . However, still a good fight for a basis on his personality. The big thing to look at, is the fact that his better attacks strike directly at a person's soul, bypassing all armor, defenses, etc.

The person he is fighting is trained to fight people like Black Star and others. But even he is nearly KO'd by this attack.

Other Notes:

Black Star is still way faster than your team. I have no idea how fast that arm is, and I don't know if you are implying that it travels at mach speeds like Black Star does, but I'm still doubting that arm could reach that vault before Black Star can go in and out.

However, even assuming it does make it there first, I don't see how your team can even damage Black Star, much less defeat him. Whereas none of your team has any way to defend against attacks that directly harm a person's soul. Over and above this, Black Star can literally fight your entire team simultaneously, and even if they attack him they'll only be hitting an afterimage. But not only is that an afterimage, it's also a shadow clone of himself that fights, and has mass and when it hits it feels like he hit them. All the while moving at hypersonic speeds. This was proven in my first post on his abilities. Over and above this, the guy can take RPGs and Grenades without so much as a scratch on his person, he tanked slashing attacks that left gouges in castle walls with only minor wounds to his person (oh, and he's gotten much more durable since that feat). If your team wants to fight him, that's fine, but I just don't see how they can defeat him.

As for your team vs. Nicholas. I've already shown he can react at well above bullet time attacks. He can block rockets with his weapon (and has done so several times in the past), and he regular defeats entire squadrons of armed assailants by himself.

Over and above this he can still fight in the dark, even completely absent of sight, and all of his senses are enhanced to that degree. Getting the jump on him is not going to be easy.

Add to this he is wearing a vibranium suit and has a healing factor, and holds a weapon that is over 250 pounds, so he's pretty strong as well. His weapon also cancels healing factors, so him tagging Venom is going to be a big deal. And he has RPGs and Grenades, for fire and sonic attacks. His bullets already shred through steel, and now he has unlimited ammo in a weapon that doesn't have to reload (at normally has hundreds upon hundreds of bullets anyway). I see no reason why he couldn't occupy your team and possibly get a kill or two, especially with Black Star manhandling your team.

Thanks for reading,


#19 Edited by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio


Still not as impressive or in the same level of Daredevil´s feats, who does more then that every day since he learned how to use his powers. He can not only use the radar sense, but also super smell and hearing. In your strategy Black Star is going to drop Nicholas who will take a sniper position, something that Matt is more then used to deal with. I already posted that but I will show another instance where Daredevil detects a sniper getting ready to shoot at him and not only does he rundown on him he changes into his DD costume before throwing his baton and reaching the shooter.

Reaction Time

Thanks to the drug perk, Daredevil have an enhanced Bullet Time Reaction time, so I believe he will be more then able to react or counter react faster then Nicholas using his weapon, who will be a easy target by standing in a sniper position, so as said before, Matt will inform the rest of the team about his position, by the time he realize that it´s gonna be too late.


I also believe that this enhanced reaction time is enough to keep up with Black Star. Daredevil is a guy who can dodge a sniper shot before the bullet is fired. He drives himself through bullets in mid air to reach the shooter in a helicopter. He is the one who possess enough agility to keep up with the likes of Spider-Man and Iron fist, and even take him down more then once. He possess the perfect power set to sense the enemy, by a combination of radar sense, super hearing (heartbeat included) and smell.

vs Black Star

I also agree that his soul attacks are a powerfull weapon, but I´m not convinced it´s going to work properly, at least not against Venom and Daredevil. I will explain to you why I don´t buy this idea. If you remember, both Venom (simbiote) and Matt have faced a guy called Ghost Rider, and the Spirit of Vengeance tried to use the Penance Stare against them, guess what? I didn´t work. A special attack which goes directly into a person´s soul just backfired at him. Interesting.

When in close combat, the Ghost Rider locks eyes with his victim and makes him or her feel every pain that that individual has ever inflicted on anyone else innocent in their lifetime. Its effects are similar to the soul searing effect of hellfire. Although it can backfire with certain individuals.

Penance Stare vs Daredevil


Penance Stare vs Venom

So what could happen is that Black Star main weapon of choice will be rendered useless against two of my team members. He certainly don´t spect that to happen, which could give the upperhand to one of my 3 warriors to counter strike him.

Other Notes

The arm is really fast, fast enough to crawl from one part of the SHIELD helicarrier to another part and set him free before anyone from SHIELD notice or had time to do anything. But let´s again imagine that the arm it´s not going to be fast enough to reach the vault before Black Star grab Nicholas, rushing with him to the vault, take the guards and then rush back to the starting point carring not only Nicholas but also the scientist.

There´s another way my team can accomplish the Plan B, which is compromise the vault operation.

Flash Thompson can use the symbiote to infiltrate into the computer hardware systems and disable its operation. The Venom symbiote did it before, and the Agent Venom also used his tendrils (while pinned by a tank and Jack O'Lantern's ghostly trap) to operate a tank and fire at Jack O'Lantern.

operating/compromising systems:


Here he manage to control and operate a ship by accessing its circuits:


Agent Venom operation a tank while incapacitade:

The Venom can easily use his tendrils to stretch through the facility compromising the system operation before Black Star can reach the Vault, even considering his speed, since in one instance, Brock manage to use the symbiote to reach his wife through the telephone line in a matter of seconds.

Black Star is a tough little bastard, I give you that, but he´s not undefeatable. Not at all, he may not give a damm to regular gunfire, but I don´t think he can take a few shots of bullets that cancels healing factor, none of your team members can. I have that perk too. But the most effective way to defeat him will be through Venom and his "possession", I don´t think that Black Star have an answer for that, once Flash put his tendrills on him the fight is over.

#20 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio


Even if Daredevil's sense are superior to Nicholas's, that doesn't make Nicholas susceptible to being ambushed. Daredevil's hearing is superior to Wolverine's, does that mean Daredevil can get the jump on Wolverine? No, absolutely not.

Nicholas has godly senses here, getting the jump on him is not going to be easier because he has heightened senses and is in a lookout position looking for your team that he knows is coming and is unaware of your starting location. So he would be looking in all directions for your team. Even if Daredevil's are better (which is fine, I'll concede that), that doesn't mean Nicholas's sense aren't extremely enhanced...

@cadencev2 will have to clarify. As far as I read it, the bullet cancel healing factors if they do damage. I didn't see anything about them having any more penetrative power, or being more powerful than normal, just that if and when they do do damage, it will cancel healing factors for a minute.

Soul Attacks

Daredevil - If I remember correctly, the Penance Stare only failed because Matt was blind, and therefore could not see into the Penance Stare attack. So that scan is null and void.

Symbiote - Actually, your scan clearly shows that the Symbiote does, in fact, possess a soul. It was even affected by the Penance Stare and reacted in a different way than Ghost Rider suspected. Black Star's attack doesn't work like the Penance Stare, it doesn't do anything through mystical means, and doesn't bother with the souls alignment or feelings. His attack directly harms a person's soul, it doesn't punish it, it doesn't make it feel pain, it's a direct attack at somebodies life essence.

Flash Thompson - Flash Thompson is still within the Venom Suit, Black Star can simply hit both the symbiote and Flash with the attack, rendering one, or both, of them unconscious.


Flash was right under that tank when he did it, he wasn't halfway across the map.

Black Star's Speed.

Black Star can travel at mach speeds, at the Speed of Shadow he would be massively hypersonic, as a shadow can travel at speeds similar to light (as it is literally just a spot where there is an absence of light, so it should be massively hypersonic, which makes sense considering his afterimages have mass).

Black Star's Strength

Black Star can easily take attacks from Black Blood, which is indestructible. Though in this instance it's blunt force, I'll provide more underneath.

Black Star not only catches one of the moon's teeth, but he also throws it off the moon. I think he can handle carrying 2 people, he's easily the strongest person out of both of our groups.

Over and above this, notice how his chain of blackness also has near limitless range, and also moves at the speed of shadow. This gives him equal range to anyone else here really, plus it was able to pierce black blood, something nobody other than Black Star has been able to do thus far.

Also, that little chain circling Black Star at all times when Tsubaki is in her first form, serves as an extra form of protection.

Black Star Soul Attacks

Not only can he do this on his own, but he can use the "Dark Limb" mode. Which essentially turns both himself and his weapon into versions of himself, and his weapon nears his stats when in this mode (Tsubaki), and is trained to levels close to him, as she was one of his teachers at one point.

Also, he can perform a more powerful version called Planetary Destruction, which has some range on it, as well as Soul Menace. Even Mifune was knocked back here, and he trained against those attacks specifically after his first encounter with Black Star.

Black Star vs Mifune Again

Black Star tanks an attack here with only minor injuries. Notice that these attacks ripped apart the entire tower of a castle (he only gets hit once, the other time is a clone).

This is against pure slashing damage too, not blunt force (which he's even more resistant to)

Black Star vs Possession

I have Ribbons on my team, so that's not really an option. Over and above this I'd have to see how possession works, because symbiotes are weak vs. sonic, if he touches Black Star and tries to take hold of him, Black Star and Tsubaki can resonate soul wavelengths, which should repel the symbiote.

Thanks for reading,


#21 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio


will have to clarify. As far as I read it, the bullet cancel healing factors if they do damage. I didn't see anything about them having any more penetrative power, or being more powerful than normal, just that if and when they do do damage, it will cancel healing factors for a minute.

Correct, just cancels healing for a minuet and adds nothing more.

#22 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio


will have to clarify. As far as I read it, the bullet cancel healing factors if they do damage. I didn't see anything about them having any more penetrative power, or being more powerful than normal, just that if and when they do do damage, it will cancel healing factors for a minute.

Correct, just cancels healing for a minuet and adds nothing more.


Fantastic, so unless you can prove that those bullets have more destructive power than a tower shattering attack, or more power than 10+ RPG blasts, I don't see them being a factor.

Thanks for reading,


#23 Edited by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio

Nicholas senses

I get that he possess enhanced senses, the thing is that I just don´t agree that´s enough to be a key factor here, he won´t be able to do much apart from dodge some bullets, Bucky can keep him busy since his vision and durability is enhanced thanks to the Halo Mjolnir Armor, and he will know the enemy position from Matt by advance who will give the coordinates since he will sense him first and not the oposite, meanwhile both Daredevil and Venom manage to take care of Black Star.

Soul Attacks

Daredevil - Not only that, the penance stare doesn´t work against people who doesn´t have sins, Matt is a hero who is constantly working to save people from evil. Also, you said that a person can resist to such attack is that right? I believe Matt is perfectly able to do that..

Symbiote - I just can´t agree with that, the Penance Stare may not work exactly in the same way Black Star attack works, but the Penance Stare also attacks the soul, both attacks have that in commom, and sincerely, I don´t think Black Star soul attack is more effective then the Penance Stare, which comes from the Spirit of Veagence himself. I will just keep saying that this kind of attack won´t work since Venom isn´t a regular anime character.

Flash Thompson - I don´t think that´s going to be that easy. He also possess good will power which allows him to control the symbiote. The Venom symbiote protects the host all the time, even without the host will. The symbiote possess the Danger Sense, as well as ranged attacks to hit the enemy from multiple directions. Black Star can take some hits? Yes he can, but how would he deal with a symbiote bonding? Once the Venom grabs him with a tendrill, he´s gone..


Doesn´t matter, he was under the tank and didn´t need more reach to access the tank, his tendrils can reach much longer distance without much effort, the Venom symbiote is used to do that since the very beginning of his appearances. I just proved that he can control machines, computer systems and similars so the distance won´t be a problem at all. He can also control the reach, amount, intensity, durability, shape, etc..


Reaching his wife through the telephone, from the sewer to the police station:

This can happen here too against any of your team members..

vs Hellstrom

Multi-tendril impalement


Here he is vulking-out, and mercilessly slaughtering enemy operatives throwing sharpened tendrils:

Remember that this is a Morals Off Agent Venom so Vulking-ou is plausible here.

Black Star's Speed.

Speed ​​is not an issue in this closed environment, Black Star doesn´t have much space to travel, the lack of space just make it easier for Venom to grab him, not using only tendrils but also through webbing. We have a bunch of examples that show to us how to deal with speedsters, Spider-Man was able to defeat Quicksilver who travels at supersonic speed, Wolverine was able to tag Speed Demon, and so on. Like I said, the combination of Daredevil´s super senses and Venom long ranged attacks will be enough to tag Black Star and bring him down.

Black Star's Strength

I believe that Venom possess enough strength to deal with him, further considering that he will be fighting without morals, so he can increase his strength to much higher levels. He was able to handle the likes of Toxin (60-90 tons) and Rulk.

vs Toxin:

Venom hulking-out against Flag Smasher:

The Trap!

Webbing Generation: Venom can shoot strands of the alien’s substance in the form of "webbing" at high pressure up to a distance of 70 feet. The alien’s substance seems to be composed of tough, flexible fibers of organic polymers, which regenerate swiftly after "shedding." The strands have extraordinary adhesive properties, which diminish rapidly once they abandon their living source. After about three hours, with no source to nourish them, the strands dry up like dead skin and dissolve into a powder. The strands possess a tensile strength of 125 pounds per square millimeter of cross section.

This is the webbing cobweb I was earlier referring to:

Black Star Soul Attacks

He seemed to need a good range to make it work, but doesn´t look much impressive to me. I believe that Venom have better chances at tagging and grabbing him to perform the "possession".


Having Ribbons won´t help your team against the Venom. Once the symbiote takes control doesn´t matter if you have protection against Illusions, TP, Poison, Burning, Freezing, and Chemical Weapons, since none of this are useful against an alien symbiote. Black Star won´t have time or be able to perform such thing, he will be completely taken by the Venom who will render him incapacitated. The Venom symbiote is not weak for any kind of sonic attacks, you must find the right frequency to use a specific sonic attack that my work against him, that´s something Reed Richards was able to do, and later Peter Parker after seeing what the leader of the FF did. That´s true because Iron Man himself wasn´t able to put him down via sonic attacks, Venom manage to resist to it and keep his strike against Tony.

Here he takes Control over the U-Foes henchmen:

Let´s say he can´t take over Black Star completely, he can still use the Constituent-Matter Generation to use the same substance comprising the symbiote in the form of constituent black matter or goo, and uses it in this method for lethal force against enemies. Venom can send a part of the symbiote and direct its movements into a victim's body, smothering them from the inside. I don´t think Black Star have an answer for that either.

#24 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio


Nicholas Wolfwood

Nicholas is also enhanced here, he has an indestructible weapon, and he has a Vibranium Suit... Mjonlir Armor has been destroyed with basic assault rifle rounds, NIcholas's weapon shreds through steel and concrete alike, I don't think Mjonlir Armor and Shields are going to hold up very well.

Nicholas Dominates an Army (off panel, but you can see the effects of what he had done)

Wolfwood vs Livio and Chapel (First Fight)

He loses this fight, but he was carrying someone when he got shot the first time. However, he is seen here, spur of the moment, picking up his weapon and launching an RPG in an instant and hitting his target (and bouncing the rocket btw) with pinpoint accuracy from over 10 meters away.

He also tanks several rounds, and even gets shot in the spine, and continues to move.

Wolfwood Survives

Wolfwood, after being shot in the chest several times, getting shot in the spine, and then falling several hundred meters from a ship, survives, and is semi-conscious.

Facing Soul Attacks

Neither being a good guy, nor having strong will power affects one's ability to resist Soul attacks. You have to train your soul to be able to do so. So I don't see why those two factors would save him. He's used it on good guys in the past, and it hurt them just fine...

Possessing Black Star

When using his shadow weapons, he's constantly resonating his soul, he doesn't have to just perform it.

Black Star Reflexes

Tagging a Mach 5 speedster. Pretty impressive. However, Black Star is much much faster than that in terms of reflexes.

He can dodge, deflect, block, and even go so far as to CATCH light beam attacks with his bare hands (as you can see, even one of the characters is unsure how that's even possible). Black Star is far far above Mach 5 in terms of speed, and way above that in terms of reflexes

Black Star vs Crona (First Fight)

Lots of feats here.

Crona is slinging out sonic attacks, so there are at least Mach 1 in speed. Black Star is yawning and doesn't even put any effort into dodging these. He also punches Crona (who's coated in a nearly indestructible material, and enhanced to godlike levels) back about 40 feet in a single strike.

Finally, Crona unleashes an omnidirectional homing sonic attack, before it can even reach him (from all of 10 meters away), Black Star has enough time to call out and change weapons, and then block all the attacks.

Over and above this, with this fist on, Black Star can crack Crona's black blood, a substance previously thought to be indestructible. Black Star is the only person to ever be able to do such a thing.

He can also perform energy blasts with his weapon this way, and he has a spinning blade around his arm that can slice through anything, and an indestructible gauntlet. If you notice, he's blocking beam attacks, tadpole bombs (which are about RPG level strength), and sonic attacks/sword attacks from 4 separate opponents simultaneously and even then his opponents are feeling overwhelmed.

Finally, he's bombarded with about 12 tadpole bombs simultaneously, and the only thing it serves to do is piss him off. It doesn't even put a scratch on him, or ruffle his clothing.

Soul Attacks

He doesn't need any space to perform these, he can perform them from point blank and sling them out like candy if he wants to. All he requires is a palm strike. In this instance it's blocked by somebody who is currently possessing a god within his body.

Madness Control

When possessed by madness, rage, hostile intent, or by other beings, he can channel it to increase his ability. So if possessing him is what your team wants, then they will only be met with a more powerful opponent.

In this state he can suspend a giant off the ground with one hand, and can whip out shadow constructs with little to no issue.

Granted, these days he can do those things anyway, but when possessed he can increase his ability even further than that...

Note: Also, notice with his Masamune blade out, he can create dozens of blades simultaneously, and sling them around liek bullets, which can penetrate through nearly any substance. It also allows him to perform over a dozen slashing attacks with one single sweep of his sword, this is a take off of Mifune's Infinite Sword Style.

Over and above all this.

Nicholas has a vibranium suit via the perk, and an indestructible weapon. Over and above this he has his healing factor, and his natural durability. He's a top tier marksman, and ALL of his senses are enhanced. Not just his hearing. His smell, taste, hearing, sight, etc. He can block bullets with his weapon (and does, frequently), and all of his stats are enhanced. The author confirmed that his weapon alone weighs at least 250 pounds, and he supports that thing with one hand. Without the Vibranium, Bucky could probably give him a good fight. With Black Panther's vibranium suit, Bucky doesn't have much that's going to put Nicholas in danger.

Black Star has a Wolverine level healing factor, and indominable will power. Even under the even something possesses his mind, he can forcibly expel that possession and actually empower himself. That's assuming of course they can lay a finger on him. He can react and catch light beams, so dodging sub-sonic attacks shouldn't be an issue for someone like him.

Over and above this, if he cuts Venom, Venom will lose all regeneration for a minute because of the perk. As will Daredevil. Mjonlir Armor is useless, as a single RPG can bypass and destroy most of it's defenses (as can slashing attacks from energy weapons), and Black Star's attacks are several times more lethal and powerful than any of the weapons footsoldiers carry in the Halo verse. He can also penetrate all defenses with Soul Attacks../

Black Star fights gods on even ground, and he tanks 10+ RPG blasts simultaneously without any issue. His insides are as durable as his outsides (yes, this has been proven in the manga).

Thanks for reading,


#25 Posted by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Let´s be pratical here all right?

You can bring all those insane anime feats to the table, but the thing is that your strategy have 2 critical flaws:

1 - Nicholas positioning.

2 - Black Star way back to the starting point carrying both Nicholas and the scientist.

I will explain where is the flaw..

Nicholas Positioning

You can argue all you want that he possess durability, enhanced senses, vibranium suit, doesn´t matter. The instance Black Star drop him there, he will be a target, just because Daredevil will know that he will be there before he realizes that there´s a top tracker in the other team. He possess 3 different ways to accomplish that (radar, smell and hearing). He also doesn´t have an answer for Venom, who can take him undetected, using either Camouflage or transporting the symbiote through the structure, just like it did before through a telephone line, leaving Brock from the sewer to reach his wife in the police station. His vibranium suit won´t save him from a symbiote bonding. Didn´t save Iron Man with all his advanced tech armor.

Halo Mjolnir Armor

I believe that you´re mistaken about it´s durability, this is the Halo 4 version of the armor. It has tanked plasma fire from Covenant. The most updated version of the MJOLNIR armor has tanked Forerunner weaponry in Halo 4 even better then Covenant). It also tanked atmospheric re-entry.

Bucky will not defeat him right away, the vibranium suit makes it very hard to accomplish, but with the armor, Bucky can resist Nicholas strikes, regular bullets can´t harm him, and the armor resisted atmospheric re-entry,so I think it can resist a few RPG´s. Not to mention that he can dodge those strikes. His main objective is to at least keep the enemy busy while the rest of the team take care of Black Star. Bucky can even close the gap to engage close combat, which is an area he possess advantage over his enemy. He can also use Grenades, Flashbangs, WPs, and Claymores for distraction.

Black Star way back

He is fast, I get that, fast enough to reach the vault before my team manage to get there right? Right. As said before, my team is full of expert players, with extensive training (covert ops, ninja, militar, you name it and experience in the battlefield. Daredevil will "see" the positioning of everyone within the place. This kind of environment just makes it easier for him. He will realize that there´s a speedster crossing the entire place, Bucky will confirm that with his radar and thermal vision. At that moment Venom will be already infiltrating the symbiote through the structure, waiting the right time to make a move, he can attack either Nicholas or Black Star, or both. He can build a cobweb covering the entire place if he want, and just wait for Black Star.

The keyfactor here is that Black Star will not be running at Mach speed in his way back with both Nicholas and the scientist. If he does that he will just kill the scientist and maybe Nicholas, and then your mission is gone. Have you ever heard about G-Force? That´s right. This next scan proves that:

Cap. Britain claims that his speed is limited by the physical punishment both shadowcat and nightcrawler can endure, notice they aren´t regular humans like the scientist here. Remember that Cap. Britain can reach above supersonic speed.

That´s why both Venom and Daredevil will have what it takes to tag him in his way back being occupied carrying two people at the same time. He will be vulnerable even for a short time. That´s the moment my team will take advantage of.

Another thing..

There´s not such thing of "Madness control" from Black Star, as you said, "When possessed by madness, rage, hostile intent, or by other beings, he can channel it to increase his ability. So if possessing him is what your team wants, then they will only be met with a more powerful opponent."Remember that his morals are on here, the only one with morals off is Venom. He is the only one who can Vulk-out from the start.


  • · Moral On. In Character.

So he doesn´t get extra power to resist the Venom control. Honestly, Hulk had a hard time doing that. HULK. I can´t get that this kid will be able to do it, and as far as I´m concerned, despite being a master of stealth, Black Star often find himself getting caught.

vs Hulk: note that even Hulk have a hard time getting rid off the webbing..

Can Black Star resist to this?

Doesn´t matter if Black Star possess indominable will power, this is not a mind possession. The symbiote can take over your body using every single orifice he wants. Venom already dodged light beam as well, that´s not and issue for him, as explained above, Black Star won´t be running at Mach speed so he will be tagged here.

Venom is also really fast, he manage to blitz the Spider-Man, now consider a morals off Venom, he can go beyond that easily.

Venom is also bulletproof, so regular bullets can´t pierce through the symbiote protection, you said yourself that "the bullet cancel healing factors if they do damage. "I didn't see anything about them having any more penetrative power, or being more powerful than normal, just that if and when they do do damage, it will cancel healing factors for a minute". Which makes the perk useless against him. Daredevil can easily dodge them and Bucky possess the armor to take as many bullets he needs to.

On top of all that, Venom has stated that he can only truly die by choice:

#26 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio


Black Star

He doesn't have bullets, he has shadows that can slice through any substance, and as stated by the perk, if something is cut by his weapon, it stops regenerating for one minute. Over and above this that shadow can be manipulated to his will, so there's not reason why he couldn't just use it to dice apart any webbing thrown his direction...

And just an FYI, as for the Perk, Black Star has 1 weapon that can shift into anything she wants to shape into. So the perk should operate just fine for any form he wants to use.

Previously, this guy was immune to everything they through at him, which considering Death the Kid's attacks have blows apart pyramids, I think it's a fair assumption to say it's resisted quite a bit...

Shadow Star

Shadow Star is a technique where Tsubaki becomes pure shadow, and he can manipulate it for a wide variety of purposes.

Reaction Time

Dodging light beams is one thing, catching them is a whole new animal. It's the difference between dodging and catching a bullet. One is as simple as knowing where it's trajectory is, the other consists of actually being able to move at speeds close enough to it to nab it.

Against Radar

When moving at that speed, Black Star leaves behind shadow afterimages of himself that contain mass, produce sound, and move of their own free will. Your radar will pick up all of them, so determining which one is the real him will be quite the issue.


So that's how that works? I don't think Black Star will stand perfectly still and wait for that to enter his body. If it moves against his skin, he can manipulate his shadow to destroy it and remove it. If it goes right for his orifices, he can simply dodge it, or hack it to pieces with the Moon Night Leaf technique. There's no evidence those things move at hypersonic speeds, and he's already shown he can change his weapons and react to things moving at hypersonic speed with ease.

Madness Control

He can control himself in this state, when he used it he was Morals On and in character. The power comes from his ability to convert these feeling of malice into raw power and use them to defend his comrades.

Energy Blasts

Energy attacks that create massive explosions. This is a heat attack that can easily damage Venom.

Soul Attacks

Obviously we can't agree on this, so we'll let the voters decide, but his attacks are not a penance stare, they do not punish the wicked, they do not distinguish between good and evil, they are a direct attack against somebodies soul. If someone has a soul, they should be susceptible to the attack, unless they've trained against it (which top tier fighters int he Soul Eater universe do).


I'm not arguing whether or not Nicholas can stay hidden, I get it, you have radar. I'm stating he can fight any member of your team evenly, and the odds are they're not going to be getting the jump on him, he'll know when they're coming at him because he'll hear them from half a mile away. They'll also be aware of his position so it'll be a straight up random encounter.

The plain and simple fact is, Spartan armor is susceptible to Battle Rifle rounds, a weapon that is close to on par with modern day assault rifles in terms of stats. They are laid out right here, and those are taken right out of the source books:


Which comes nowhere near the damage output of Nicholas's Punisher.

Nicholas vs Razlo

There are a lot of things to take from this.

The first is notice how his speed increases as the fight continues, he also reacts and dodges attacks easier, bullets easier, he reacts to and block RPGs with his weapon, and then survives the concussive force and so forth.

The reason he can do these things is because he constantly examines his opponents while he fights them, instinctively. As a result, the longer a person fights around him, the more of his Nicholas learns their fighting style. Kind of like Taskmaster (but not really because he doesn't learn to use their fighting style), except he just learns the weakpoints, and flaws in someones technique, and then can exploit them.

Against an opponent who had previously overwhelmed him (the two had been fighting for like 15 minutes), he pretty much curbstomped.

Stated here:

Two Scenarios

First Scenario

Team vs. Team battle.

If your team does confront mine, my team still has an open comm link, and my team will NOT be fighting 1 vs. 2 and 1 vs. 1. My team will be fighting 3 vs. 2. Which gives my team a clear numbers advantage, because where your team only has 3 members, Black Star can use Absolute Shadow or Dark Limb and turn this from 3 vs. 2 to 3 vs. 4 or 3 vs. 9. Plain and simply, Bucky and Daredevil aren't going to be lasting. They'll be up against multiple hypersonic opponents with attacks that shred through buildings like a knife through butter. Over and above this he can perform Soul Menace, Soul Domination, Big Wave, and Planetary Destruction Cannon if needed.

Black Star is the fastest character here, and Nicholas is parked just outside of the vault sniping your team, it's not like he has to travel very far to get near Nicholas and make this a team battle.

Black Star is the fastest person here by strides, and his attacks remove healing factors. Over and above this he can multiple to take advantage of Bucky and Daredevil, while leaving 3-4 shadow clones to occupy Venom for a long time. Remember, these clones have mass, can attack, and are lethal, so your radar and scanners will pick them up just as much as they'll pick up the real thing, making it nigh impossible to distinguish who's real and who's a deadly clone image.

So Venom can spend all day trying to possess shadow clones, and lashing out against clones while his team is being assaulted and overwhelmed by 4 or 5 people. While in this form he has no choice but to fight your entire team simultaneously anyway, so who knows where he'll be.

Then we have Nicholas, who can take shots against your team while they are occupied dodging or whatever against Black Star and your team. Who's also going to be dang near impossible to harm with that vibranium suit, and his natural durability (which, granted, is only about Captain America level), added to his indestructible weapon (via perk) he loves to block attacks with.

Plus he has RPGs, he can learn fighting styles, and has the ability to instinctively learn to how somebodies combat style works, and come up with a reasonable counter.

Plus I have comm links, so when Nicholas knows your team is near, he can notify Black Star for the two to reconvene. My team has perfect team work (via the perk), and know each others fighting styles. Plus, both of them fight to kill. That's how they've always been, and they both fight to protect their teammates.

Second Scenario

Black Star gets the scientist and Nicholas and goes back to the starting point at Mach speeds.

How can he do this? Simple, covers the scientist with a protective Shadow Barrier while using the Zero Form (Masamune), and sling shotting himself across the map. Without any wind resistance to hurt him, the scientist will be fine, and Nicholas has the vibranium suit and increased durability anyway.

Over and above this your average person can withstand up to 8 times the force of gravity for a few seconds, so he could cross this map in less than half a second just moving at Mach 1 (3.4 km/s) and the scientist would be just fine.

Based on the map, it doesn't look like the facility is more than 1.7 km way (1.05 miles), so he could literally be there, and back within 1 second if he only wanted to travel at Mach 1.

Thanks for reading,


#27 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, lol lots good points. But don't you guys get tired of typing sometimes? lol Just reading all this makes my fingers hurt :(

#28 Posted by Dredeuced (6047 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, lol lots good points. But don't you guys get tired of typing sometimes? lol Just reading all this makes my fingers hurt :(

I think guys like Higor, Floopay, and even myself really enjoy letting the words flow when you're making an argument. It's why dudes join these tourneys, usually.

#29 Edited by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio


Black Star

The bullets arguments was made for Nicholas. His shadows can slice and dice and even do the harlem shake but to do all that he must necessary hit the target. I just don´t see how he´s going to tag Daredevil, who dodges gunfire, sniper shots (after the bullet is fired), laser beams, strikes from Cyclops, Wolverine, Black Panther, Iron Fist, Spider-Man, and he does it with his power-set at normal levels. Here he possess enhanced reaction time, which is enough to avoid any strike from Black Star.

vs Cyclops

Daredevil vs Iron Fist (dressed like him)

Daredevil vs Black Panther

Daredevil vs Spider-Man

Daredevil vs Spider-Man 2

Again, Black Star won´t be expecting the webbing, since the team is setting up an ambush from the start, from Daredevil´s tracking, Venom can build the cobwebb in seconds, and then just wait for Black Star, to take him down. Even if he manage to cut the web, this move will let him busy for awhile, giving the oportunity for my team to strike him.

Daredevil ambushing the Punisher (who was using night vision googles):

I couldn´t find this perk that grants him shapeshifting abilities.

Shadow Star

I don´t think he would have enough time to perform this technique, since he will be carrying both Nicholas and the scientist, he will have to drop them somehow, get rid of the cobweb, and then manage to fight 3 different enemies waiting for him in different positions.

Reaction Time

Daredevil has also bounced bullets, he did that already, both dodge and bounce bullets fired at him point blank. He was also able to block Bullseye (top marksmanship) throwing stars, and even disarming him with the Billy Clubs, which is something he could do against Nicholas or Black Star.

Here he manage to prevent another attempt from Bullseye to kill Elektra:

Against Radar

Doesn´t matter, that´s not impressive at all, afterimages are basic when it comes to anime characters. Matt can distinguish as many after images Black Star manage to create, that´s not going to be a problem for him. Remember that he doesn´t have only the radar, he can use his other super senses (hearing and smell), being the heartbeat the most effective way in this case. Furthermore, Bucky can also scan them all with the combination of Radar and Thermal Vision.

You may also note that Daredevil already fought and defeated the Klaw, who uses sonic attacks and can create constructs of pure sound to fight for him, so there´s nothing Matt can ou have dealt before.

vs Klaw:

vs Doc. Octopus and his tentacles (a guy who usually tags spider-man):


That´s not the only way it works, he can do it from distance, the objective of the scan was to show the amount it can lay out. I know he won´t stand still but he will be tagged eventually. I don´t think that shadow have what it takes to destroy the symbiote that easy, considering that others have tried and failed. Once the symbiote touchs him, he will not be able to do anything, that´s how it works, you must have a Hulk or Juggernaut level of strength to push it away. Faster enemies also failed to dodge it, heck, Hellstrom couldn´t avoid it.

Madness Control

Well, if that is the case I can argue that Bucky as Winter Soldier is always morals off, and Daredevil can also get into this state through meditation and strong will, since he already did that against Bullseye.

Energy Blasts

Venom isn´t weak for heat, that´s Carnage weakness. His main weakness is by sound attacks, and even then only the ones which reach the right frequency. The symbiote has prove to be resistent to heat several times. So that will only annoy him even more.

resisting to Ghost Rider hellfire:

against spider-man and Human Torch:

Soul Attacks

I just say that this attack is not going to work, heck, it´s not only the Ghost Rider and his penance stare that Matt faced before and walk alive to tell the history, he also faced the likes of Mephisto and Blackheart as well, he is used to deal with this kind of menance.


The only one Nicholas can fight evenly is Bucky, and I say that being very optmistic, Nicholas can´t do nothing against Venom besides being taken by him, Daredevil can easily dodge anything and close the gap to defeat him in H2h combat, and I´m sure Bucky can at least hold him long enough. Bucky have other ways to battle him, not just pure gunfire, but that may be enough since his bullets cancel healing factor and Nicholas is susceptible to being shot. I hardly doubt that he can avoid a strike from a morals off Venom.

The armor is not that easy to be pierced, and he can also dodge the gunfire. Bucky is another person on my team superior to Nicholas in H2H combat, he can also close the gap to take him out with his fighting ability.

Important Notes

Daredevil is used to deal with Ninjas and fast enemies such as the Bullet, who possess superhuman speed.

He takes on the Hand ninjas constantly.

His nerve strikes techniques may be the answer to incapacitate his enemies here.

He can do that in close quarters, his suit also gives him some durability, since it´s a micro-mesh steel fiber, made by Reed Richards.

#30 Edited by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio

My vision about the fight!

Daredevil will use his super senses to find the exact location where the scientist it placed. During the search, he will encounter enemies, both guards, as your team. Bucky can further confirm that with his own radar and thermal vision. Then Matt will see that Nicholas was droped to assume a sniper position by Black Star who is killing all the guards to reach the vault. The team will immediately put into practice the "compromise plan", which consists of Bucky release the EMP to shutdown the vault hardware, if the arm doesn´t have enough reach to propagate the EMP from where he is, he can detach the arm and send it to the vault. If this isn´t a valid option, Venom can compromise the vault operation using the symbiote to get into the circuits real fast, considering that it was fast enough to get from the sewer to the police station to save Brock´s wife. After that, Bucky will take on Nicholas using his anti-healing factor bullets while Venom manage to get him by surprise using the symbiote tendrils to catch him, he can get close to him unnoticed using either camouflage abilities or stretching the symbiote through the structure, which is something he can´t sense comming at him. Daredevil with enhanced reaction time will be able to keep Black Star busy until the rest of the team can join him, turning into a 3x1 fight, where the enemy has zero chances to win.


My team can´t avoid the scientist being picked by Black Star, who is now comming back to his starting point with both Nicholas and the scientist in his arms. My team knows, through both Daredevil and Bucky that the enemy is comming, as well as they doesn´t know where my team is positioned. Considering that my team had enough time to set an ambush, which will be set by both Venom and Bucky, consisting in the follow:

- Venom will build a huge cobweb that will cover the entire place, forcing the enemy to make a move, he will need to deal with this trap, giving the oportunity that my team needs to go to the second part of the plan..

- Bucky will use his arm to release an eletrical discharge to the ground, which will be electrified, so no matter how fast Black Star is running, he will be neutralized at the moment he touches the ground. This tactic worked before, when Electro (who doesn´t have superhuman senses) was able to electrify the floor to put Quicksilver down.

So Black Star will eventually get caught by one of this methods, once neutralized, even if temporarily, the team will have enough time to take him down for good, with Daredevil using nerve strikes to incapacitate him so Venom can properly perform the bond possession and finish him once for all.

#31 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio


Black Star


Yes, I understand fighting Quicksilver is impressive and all. But Black Star is literally so fast he is in 7 places at once. He's so fast, that his mass is displaced in multiple places simultaneously. It was shown several times that cutting these in half causes them to spray blood and die, but every instance of this happening it was revealed that it wasn't the real one.

You claim he won't be able to tag Daredevil because Daredevil is enhanced by the perk. But you seem to forget, Black Star has the same perk going for him. Over and above this, Black Star is already much much faster at his base. Being a hypersonic level speedster and with superluminal levels of reflexes, he's now enhanced to even further levels (which at his level, are minuscule to be honest), and to the same degree as Daredevil.

Spider Man, Black Panther, Cyclops, Iron Fist, and Doctor Octopus aren't even faster than a car, let alone a mach speedster.

No matter how many times I see people pull the "My character is used to being weaker, slower, or outsmarted by his opponent", being physically inferior is not an advantage. I can guarentee you Black Star has more experience fighting people inferior to him than Daredevil has experience fighting people superior to him.

Black Star holding Nicholas and the Scientist

I think we can pretty much both agree if he's holding both then it's probably over.

Black Star getting tagged by....anyone.

Black Star catches light with his hands. With his bare hands. And he does this without any sort of amplification. Over and above this, he CAN amplify his speed if he wants to.

Blocking Black Star's Attacks

If he wants he can just swing with his weapon in the Zero Form, Masamune

In this form he swings 9 swords simultaneously. He can also throw out these swords as projectiles (which also move at the speed of shadow, as his attacks do in this form) from a distance if he wants to. These swords whirl around him and will slice anything that dares to get near him like a protective barrier.

Black Star's Durability

Venom will be up against someone who can tank an attack capable of leaving a warhead sized mushroom cloud by swallowing it. And this only causes him minor injuries (which because of the perk he can recover from). This is also an energy attack. And that's assuming that the fact that Bucky is completely covered in wires, holding onto a cable in both hands, and in a room filled with cables and wires isn't amplifying him to some degree (which is really making me question that feat).

Even IF he can't tag your team, which is highly unlikely.

Okay, so Black Star can catch light, is the greatest fighter ever birthed in Soul Eater, can move at near extremely hypersonic speeds, can hit wide areas in a single strike, can be in 7 places simultaneously, can create a clone of himself, and etc. Yet for some reason, he's having a hard time tagging people who couldn't even hit 60 mph on their best day.

What can he do? Well, he can simply use a single attack and blow your team back across the map. Problem solved.

Over and above this

His attacks negate healing factors because of the perk, and he has a Wolverine level healing factor.

Nicholas D. Wolfwood.

Nicholas dispatches a group of superhuman cyborg assassins with ease

They can't even track his movements here, all of a sudden one of them just blows up and is in pieces. They can't land a single shot on him, or get an explosive close enough to him to cause damage. He pretty much outclasses them with no problem.

Nicholas is physically superior to Daredevil (as he's superhuman in every aspect), and a physical match for Bucky. He carries 250+ pounds with one hand on him at all times, and can hold that while sprinting with a human being over his shoulders (shown in a previous list of scans).

He's dodged bullets from multiple sources, dodged speed blitzed, and dodged bullets from a Bullseye level marksman (who was shooting machine guns at the time with that kind of accuracy).

He regularly fights people who are extremely well trained and outclasses them in skill.

I don't see why he couldn't keep up with Daredevil or Bucky, or at least keep Venom occupied. He's got RPGs, he's got a weapon that punctures through steel, and he has a vibranium suit.

As for the tournament

I still have lots and lots of feats I can post. But at this point I don't see any new points being made. How you looking? Ready for votes or do you wanna keep going. Because I can keep posting all week if you wanna continue.

Thanks for reading,


#32 Posted by HigorM (4877 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Star speed

That´s why I came with two different ways to neutralize his speed advantage, using both cobweb and eletricity.

Black Star holding Nicholas and the Scientist

Not at all, he will need to pass through my team who will be waiting for him with 2 different ambushes, he´s fast enough to get into the vault, while my team is fast enough to get into his way with a trap.

Blocking Black Star's Attacks

You claimed that Daredevil´s fights wasn´t a big deal compared to Black Star, but you see, just to give you an example, Matt was able to dodge Cyclops optical blasts which travels at lightspeed, and still he was able to dodge a strike from a guy who tagged speedsters before. So he can dodge Black Star attacks since his reaction time is enhanced.

Cykes tagging the speedster (lightspeed) Northstar:

Black Star's Durability

That doesn´t matter since Venom will take him in a whole different way than that. I´ve stated it already. He will take him with the bond possession. Bucky is convered in wires?? Holding cable?? What the heck??

"Even IF he can't tag your team, which is highly unlikely."

He won´t have time to do all that, he will be running straight up to the ambush, if he avoid one, he will fall into the other, there´s no scape considering my team will be there to take him down.

Nicholas D. Wolfwood.

He isn´t stronger then Bucky, or more skilled then Daredevil, and he is below both of them in terms of fighting ability, as for Venom, he doesn´t have enough power to use against the symbiote, he just doesn´t have ways to harm him, so I can´t see what he´s gonna do against any of them.

I´m ready for the votes when you´re. I think we made ourselves clear with our arguments, so we should let the people decide the winner.

nice debate btw..

#33 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm: Oh that was Electro in that scan. I was wondering wtf you were talking about.

Well, in response to that I'm just going to point out the ground isn't covered in any conductive material, so that's a non-factor. :P

It was a pleasure.

@cadencev2 care to call in the voters?

Thanks for reading,


#34 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: @vaeternus:

You two looked like you may have read some of this already, it's up for voting.

And anyone can vote btw, if anyone stumbled in here.

Thanks for reading,


#35 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Edited by joewell (7347 posts) - - Show Bio

Argh, this was a great debate, probs the best so far. But in the end i think i'm gonna go with @floopay:

I'm just not sure that anybody could tag Blackstar, as for the roadblock, well he could easily cut through, it would only take about 30 secs for a person of his speed, and thats not enough for them to get there and attack

#38 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20496 posts) - - Show Bio

Going to have to read this some other time. Final exams coming next week...

#39 Posted by SlimJ87D (11305 posts) - - Show Bio

Only read half. Will try and look through the other half later.

#40 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (28542 posts) - - Show Bio

Good debate guys,while HigorM did make some good points I'm going with Floopay here. Blackstar is just too much for HigorM team to overcome.

#41 Edited by boschePG (2932 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: @higorm:

I voted for floopay

if it was a straight fight I would have went for HigorM with his knowledge of Venom symbiote. If HigorM would have expressed something I think he should have, I would have voted for him

That being said, Floopay has the speedster and even boosted the speedster. First to target is going to be Floopay. What HigorM should have stated is the time it would take for Blackstar to take out the Guards: is it silently or is Floopay just dropping in and blasting away with Wolfwood. Another fact I either missed or wasnt brought up for HigorM, is that they both know the scientist is in the building. I know Wolfwood doesnt have senses to locate. I dont know Blackstar does. That takes more time in the house. In that time Venom and boosted DD could have gotten to the house and more easily able to locate the scientist with DDs radar sense. I dont think it was brought up so it isnt fact here. So now its just a speed race to the house and Im to assume that Blackstar finds the scientist and back

(if Im wrong with missed points HigorM you can bring it up but I didnt see that said.)

#42 Edited by BataTest (315 posts) - - Show Bio

HigorM takes the win in my book the venom symbiote through the phone line! Good traps and all.

#43 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for HigorM, you both did a great debate(both of you did better than I personally did in mine lol)

#44 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (8750 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: @higorm:Both of you have a well thought out debate making full use of upgrades & environment.

But Floopay got the slight advantage with the manga mechanics.

Manga mechanics describes numerous things, I'm only referring to the three brought up in the debate (speed, unique powers, & unique energy)

#46 Edited by jashro44 (27553 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm: @floopay Sorry guys but I might not get a chance to vote. I am a little bit busy with school right now so I don't know if I will have time to read through this and vote in time. When does voting close?

#47 Posted by Strider92 (17016 posts) - - Show Bio

You both did great. My vote goes to HigorM!

#48 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Finally finished reading through. Phenomenal job both of you, my vote goes to HigorM by a hair.

#49 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@higorm: @floopay Sorry guys but I might not get a chance to vote. I am a little bit busy with school right now so I don't know if I will have time to read through this and vote in time. When does voting close?

Friday I think. If you're busy don't worry about it! :D

Thanks for reading,


#50 Edited by jashro44 (27553 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: I could probably vote Friday after school if voting is still open. If you guys need a tie breaker on Friday call me out and I will vote.