Madame Web (Julia) can see the future, including whatever strategy you plan to use. So my team will take that into account as we plan our own strategy. We will, for instance, know if Mystique changes her shape to copy any of my people, as well as whatever anyone else does. We also will know where your team is, while you will not know where mine is.
Here is my basic approach:
Before your group gets a chance to split up, Archangel flies over the ruins and pelts everyone with paralysis quills, focusing especially on Quake, Lorelei, and Banshee. None of them have any particular super-speed/durability to escape this, as far as I know (although I admit I am only passingly familiar with Quake and Lorelei). Banshee could perhaps destroy some quills with her scream, and could theoretically get up in the air (see below for a contingency plan for this unlikely event) but Archangel is darn fast and can shoot a heck of a lot of pinions at once. So honestly I think he could take them all out. After he shoots the pinions he goes down for a divebombing run with his wings to slash apart anything that's still alive. At a Mach 1 dive, I don't think anyone is going to get out of the way, and also at Mach 1, he is going at the speed of sound so he won't be able to hear Banshee's and Lorelei's voices! Quake and the others won't have time to react to his attack with any kind of finesse before he gets them with the original quill attack--remember he's attacking by surprise, since we know where you are and you don't know where we are--at least not exactly.
Meanwhile, Julia Carpenter creeps along and casts one of her psi-webs over the rest of your characters--whoever's still alive.
Domino is going to stay stealthy at the moment and merely use sniper fire using her rifle/grenade launcher to take out anyone else on your team. Since she will remain hidden in the ruins, she will have time to aim carefully, using her scope and laser pointer, which in addition to her luck, should mean that she can't really miss. As far as I know she can kill any of your team members with the rifle/grenade launcher except perhaps Marrow, other than her they don't have any particular durability. Quake, Lorelei, and Banshee are primary targets, if alive. Certainly Mystique is killed here. I am no expert on Marrow, she may or may not survive the gunshots, but on the other hand Archangel may already have cut her to pieces. (His healing factor can deal with her bones long enough to take her out, I believe.) Also, Julia's web may be able to keep all her bones stuck in her body so she can't shoot them out--that's an arguable point certainly.
Gargoyle, in any case, will fly over, right after Domino's attacks, and will use his biomystical blasts to weaken Marrow, if she's already not dead, by draining the life force out of her, as well as out of anyone else. He can also attack them through concussion blasts or fire breath--none of them have the durability to deal with this.
Black Knight, as far as I can tell, isn't super needed in this battle, and will hang out in the back unless needed to give Marrow a final killing blow with the Ebony Blade.
I really do think this will take out everyone with the possible exception of Banshee, who could theoretically get out of the way of Archangel's pinions and fly up. If so, then Julia will focus her webs on her first, and then Domino will also shoot her down as her first target. If really necessary, Gargoyle will go up and drain her. This would make my team lose a slight degree of focus on the others, but since there's a fair amount of redundancy in my plan, I think that's OK.
Of course, if you have a strategy that requires a different approach, Madame Web will know what that is, and my team will modify what they do based on that.
But I have to say, you chose great characters, nice power set. One thing I don't know is what, if any, weapons your team has, especially Mystique and Quake. Looking forward to a great debate.
- No telepathy(for offensive purposes), Telekinesis, or other Psionic Powers
ms. carpenters webs shouldn't be usable in this. unless, i missed something.
(great strategy though, ill have mine up tonight or tomorrow :D)
I did wonder whether her both webs and her precognition would be OK or not, and checked specifically with Luna on those issues. He OK'd them.
I think we both have teams that have unusual powers beyond "normal" street levelers--Carpenter's webs/precog and Domino's luck on my team, Banshee and Lorelei's mind control and Quake's ability to explode someone's heart from a distance just by thinking about it on your team. So I guess I feel like the level of those powers on both teams more or less equal each other, and would say we just roll with it, if you're ok with that.
I also want to just point out here, since I know Dane brought up the question of whether Domino's luck is outside the bounds of the tournament in the main thread, that I don't intend to argue for it being all-powerful here. She's been beaten in the comics before and I intend to honor those precedents.
Looking forward to your strategy when you get to it. No hurry on my part.
Carpenters precognition is definitely a thorn in my side, from what i've read on her vine, it may not be entirely accurate, so it's a coin toss im assuming.
But any who, here was my original strategy before you posted
Given the distance between our two teams, it could give a some of my members a few moments to quickly "prep" themselves. Marrow plating herself in bone armor(along with bone weapons, most likely daggers), Mystique giving herself two extra limbs (sorry for not listing her gear, but she's equipped with two vibranium knives, two deagles, flash/frag grenades & a dragunov sniper rifle). Within that time frame, Banshee could release her scream to operate as sonar. Picking up your teams position, she could let out her scream & completely destroy the building in between us, following through to hit you & destroying any weapons you have in the process. Banshee still using her sonar, keeps tabs on your team and also keeps my team aware of your positions. (i guess i have somewhat of a little julia carpenter lol).
Archangels speed would make Banshee focus on him instantly, it wouldn't be too difficult for her to pinpoint his position and blast him from the sky, her screams have been known to break the sound barrier, mimicking an F-11. Also, Quakes assistance would almost make it a lethal impact, her precision is quite deadly. Mystique & Marrow would advance somewhat to attack the lesser
threats of your team, like Black Knight & Gargoyle. Mystique's superior artillery skills would be enough to weaken either character, added with Marrows accuracy with her bone needles or daggers. Domino's luck would obviously help her outmaneuver most of their projectiles. But with Quake acting as backup to the entire team, it'd be quite difficult for her to get near (her SHIELD training definitely helps). With everything going on, Carpenter wouldn't be able to focus on every detail, stacking that with Banshee's agonizing screams & Quakes destructive vibrations, along with Marrow & Mystique reenacting Call of Duty.
With Archangel out of the picture, the difficulty of the battle changes drastically. Domino's weapons have been rendered useless when Banshee unleashed her sonic wave, but with her "luck" she probably saved something. Gargoyle & Black Knight had the unfortunate outcome of coming within range of Lorelei's hypnotic/mesmerizing song when trying to push an attack, which leaves them as servants to her will. Carpenter & Domino are left to fight my team along with your two remaining men. Sonic waves, vibrating explosions, bullets, bone projectiles & zombie servants are enough to put them down. They couldnt run because of Banshee's sonar, they couldnt hide because Quake would destroy any cover & they couldnt advance with Mystique & Marrow at the ready.
So that was my original strategy. Now time for both of us to break down each others explanation, lol.
Carpenters precognition is definitely a thorn in my side, from what i've read on her vine, it may not be entirely accurate, so it's a coin toss im assuming.
But any who, here was my original strategy before you posted
Given the distance between our two teams, it could give a some of my members a few moments to quickly "prep" themselves. Marrow plating herself in bone armor(along with bone weapons, most likely daggers), Mystique giving herself two extra limbs (sorry for not listing her gear, but she's equipped with two vibranium knives, two deagles, flash/frag grenades & a dragunov sniper rifle). Within that time frame, Banshee could release her scream to operate as sonar. Picking up your teams position, she could let out her scream & completely destroy the building in between us, following through to hit you & destroying any weapons you have in the process. Banshee still using her sonar, keeps tabs on your team and also keeps my team aware of your positions. (i guess i have somewhat of a little julia carpenter lol).
Archangels speed would make Banshee focus on him instantly, it wouldn't be too difficult for her to pinpoint his position and blast him from the sky, her screams have been known to break the sound barrier, mimicking an F-11. Also, Quakes assistance would almost make it a lethal impact, her precision is quite deadly. Mystique & Marrow would advance somewhat to attack the lesser
threats of your team, like Black Knight & Gargoyle. Mystique's superior artillery skills would be enough to weaken either character, added with Marrows accuracy with her bone needles or daggers. Domino's luck would obviously help her outmaneuver most of their projectiles. But with Quake acting as backup to the entire team, it'd be quite difficult for her to get near (her SHIELD training definitely helps). With everything going on, Carpenter wouldn't be able to focus on every detail, stacking that with Banshee's agonizing screams & Quakes destructive vibrations, along with Marrow & Mystique reenacting Call of Duty.
With Archangel out of the picture, the difficulty of the battle changes drastically. Domino's weapons have been rendered useless when Banshee unleashed her sonic wave, but with her "luck" she probably saved something. Gargoyle & Black Knight had the unfortunate outcome of coming within range of Lorelei's hypnotic/mesmerizing song when trying to push an attack, which leaves them as servants to her will. Carpenter & Domino are left to fight my team along with your two remaining men. Sonic waves, vibrating explosions, bullets, bone projectiles & zombie servants are enough to put them down. They couldnt run because of Banshee's sonar, they couldnt hide because Quake would destroy any cover & they couldnt advance with Mystique & Marrow at the ready.
So that was my original strategy. Now time for both of us to break down each others explanation, lol.
Cool, I will get back to you in detail tomorrow.
A few things:
I think the scan with Siryn shows that the F-11 thing is a metaphor: she makes a sound like the sound of an F-11 breaking the sound barrier--the sound of which would travel at the speed of sound.
Yeah, I thought you would use the sonar for location...was hoping you wouldn't!! :)
Question: How fast can Banshee fly? How well can she multitask her various sound techniques? I.e. can she do a shield and an attack at once, etc.? How long does it take her to use her own mind control technique--instantaneously, a few seconds, a few minutes?
How long does it take for Lorelei's song technique to take hold?
I'm not exactly sure what you were saying at the top about Julia's precog.
Can Quake, from what you're saying, focus her vibration effect through the air at Archangel?
Quake can Pinpoint,but i have never see her hit an Airborne target.
as for Banshee, she has stated in the past she can get over 200 decibels, and just fyi an 160lbs man, will suffer a heart attack at 180 decibels. And due to the sound works, she can only scream at 768 mph, Give or take, the colder and wetter it is the slower, and the adverse is also true And because her powers, are near identical to her father so i would say her top speed would be about Mach 1, because that was his top speed
Quake can Pinpoint,but i have never see her hit an Airborne target.
as for Banshee, she has stated in the past she can get over 200 decibels, and just fyi an 160lbs man, will suffer a heart attack at 180 decibels. And due to the sound works, she can only scream at 768 mph, Give or take, the colder and wetter it is the slower, and the adverse is also true And because her powers, are near identical to her father so i would say her top speed would be about Mach 1, because that was his top speed
Thanks.
Phylos, I'll get to my response tomorrow morning, my day got real busy today.
Certainly a good strategy. But my team can and would disrupt it.
I'd like to break down our teams in several ways:
Pairs
First, I'd like to just compare our teams in pairs, even though we're using an overall group strategy and not specific match ups, because some of them share a fair amount of similarities that make for reasonable comparisons.
Gargoyle-Banshee: Far from being one of my lesser characters, Gargoyle is one of my heavyweights. He has concussive blasts that can flatten a house, he can absorb life energy and add it to his own, he can give others his life energy and heal them (sort of like Dazzler) so he could supercharge Archangel's healing factor for instance, and he can blast fire from his mouth. He has 2 ton strength and has a degree of superhuman durability. Banshee's powers match up here in the sense that she is your team's biggest energy blaster, probably at about the same level as Gargoyle's blasts. She can also fly, but her powers are overall more diverse; she can make shields, hypnotize, use sonar, and other sonic effects. So basically she's more diverse and faster, but he's her equal in firepower and is more durable. This seems like kind of an even match, but if they went up against each other, here's what would happen: They would both blast at each other. Banshee's attack would hurt Gargoyle for sure, but he wouldn't be out. Meanwhile, either his life-draining or concussive blast would take her out since she has no durability. Her shields wouldn't stop his blasts, especially the life-draining biomystical bolts. And while he drained her, he would just be using the energy to recharge himself. So he would ultimately beat her one on one.
Domino-Mystique: I would give Domino the edge in H2H and shooting skills even without her powers, and with her powers, she certainly is on a higher level.
Archangel-Marrow: Both can shoot numerous projectiles. Marrow has a fairly high degree of durability, and Archangel has a fairly decent healing factor. Archangel can fly, though, and his wings are much sharper and have a longer reach as melee weapons. Plus his projectiles are paralytic, so he doesn't need a kill shot, he just needs to get a couple hits to take someone down. Plus his wings can be used as a shield. So Archangel has the advantage.
Julia Carpenter-Quake: This is a less obvious match-up. Julia has much superior physical stats and had her own SHIELD fighting training. Quake probably has better fighting skills, but in pure H2H would easily succumb to Julia's speed, strength, and agility. In terms of powers, Julia's precog is a big asset, and her webs are also. Quake's powers are probably more effective overall though, since she can kill someone directly and majorly affect the environment. This is a fight of starting distance: if they are far away from each other, Quake would probably win due to powers, since Julia's webs wouldn't stop her quake ability, but if they were close together, Julia could just knock her out quickly.
Black Knight-Lorelei: A random match up just because they're the leftovers. Dane has far superior H2H skills as one of the best swordfighters of all time, and has a sword that can cut through anything and absorb energy. He has basic steel armor that would help in a normal fight. Lorelei has no appreciable H2H skills or durability, but of course her power would easily defeat him if she had time to use it, so it is also a battle of distance.
So overall my team has the superior durability and speed. I have the advantage in the majority of the fights: Gargoyle, Domino, Archangel. And while my team would lose the last two if your team has the benefit of time, my team could easily beat them at close range since they have no real defensive abilities. In any case it would be at best 3 against 2 at that point, and my team would have its strongest members left.
Information Gathering
Also, let's look in some detail on how our respective information gathering would work. Julia's precognitive powers are somewhat oracular, giving her a general and somewhat metaphoric sense of what's going to happen in the long-term future, getting more specific in the near term. For instance, when she sparred against Spidey, her precog more or less acted as a spider-sense, allowing her to see pretty much what he was going to do a split-second from then, so they are very much a tactical asset. Her visions of even the medium term future can be pretty clear; she often says stuff like, "I know what you're going to say, because with my powers it's as if I already had this conversation with you." She also has clairvoyance and astral projection, so she can be pretty specific about exactly who you are and what your plans are. Banshee, on the other hand, can use her sonar to basically tell where we are, but not who we are or what we plan to do.
I should note that I don't intend for Julia to broadcast her precog knowledge throughout the battle, just at the beginning.
Your Strategy: Blow up the Building/Battle in an Open Field
Based on the picture, I tend to see us as a decent distance away from each other--the ruins look like multiple "blocks" wide, so we are not just on opposite sides of a building. So I don't believe Banshee's scream can take out the whole space between us, or destroy all my armaments. However, even if we were separated by only one building, it would just be to my advantage. There would be no problem for my weapons, since the Black Knight's Ebony Blade is indestructible, and Domino would, as you say, somehow luck out and not lose most of her stuff. In any case, it would just open the field between us so that Archangel could sweep directly toward your team and take them out even more directly than he could otherwise, and also likewise open your team all up to direct fire from Gargoyle and Domino, and webs from Julia, which would be the end of your team. (Of course you could return fire, but I have the advantage in durability and speed and dodging, so I will win out in the volley of attacks. Short and sweet.) In fact, of we were separated by only one building, it might almost make sense for Gargoyle to just pre-empt your strategy and blow up the building with a concussive blast and keep firing, then my team would continue as directly above.
To be specific, in an open field, where everyone is just shooting at everyone, here's what happens: Quake blasts vibrations at us and knocks stuff down; Lorelei starts singing; Banshee shoots a sonic blast; Mystique shoots her guns; Marrow shoots her bones. Gargoyle shoots his blasts; Archangel shoots his paralytic quills; Domino shoots her guns; Julia creates her webs; Black Knight uses his sword to deflect sonic energy to the extent he is able. Now I tend to see Lorelei as needing a bit of time for her song to work, and in any case it is going to be pretty noisy around, especially with Banshee and all the other firepower. Really I think Banshee negates any effectiveness Lorelei might otherwise have. So honestly I don't think her song would work. Quake's attack could be fairly effective, as could Banshee's. The only person Mystique has a chance at shooting is Black Knight; the rest dodge, deflect, or absorb the hit. Same for Marrow. While from my team, Mystique, Lorelei, and Quake are all very vulnerable to the gun and pinion attacks. Since Domino has a grenade launcher, Marrow would be vulnerable to that too. I think Marrow would probably be vulnerable to the pinions as well. Gargoyle's blasts would affect everyone on your team, and everyone on your team could be caught in Julia's webs, although only Marrow and Mystique's attacks would be hobbled by it. At the end of the first round of attacks, some on my team may be hurt, but I have probably only lost Black Knight. Yours has lost Mystique, Lorelei, Quake, probably Marrow (to Gargoyle, grenades, or pinions), and probably Banshee (to Gargoyle). So it's a possible win for me in the first volley, and if not, then certainly in the second volley.
My Strategy: Starting off with Archangel
Here's how it works with my strategy:
Let's say that we both start off pretty much as already described. I send Archangel to attack your group, and you use Banshee to start destroying the buildings in between us. Banshee may or may not be flying when she does this. In terms of flight speed, they are about the same, it seems--both at about Mach 1. Angel, however, is in my estimation the superior aerialist with greater maneuverability; he's considered one of Marvel's most agile and skilled fliers. So I think that, whether Banshee is on the ground or in the air, he is going to be able to outmaneuver her and largely dodge her attacks, while getting some of his attacks in on her in passing. His primary attacks, however, are on the rest of your team. Even if they are somewhat under cover, he can smash through objects easily, and will be able to shoot them like pincushions. He's taking down Lorelei, Quake, and Mystique first. He'll attack her too, but I am guessing that she will avoid most of his pinions through her shields. Marrow may or may not be affected by his pinions. I think probably yes, since he can cut through metal with his wings.
Warren has a decent healing factor; Wolverine put his claws through his chest a while ago and Warren barely reacted. Also, his wings are proof against attacks by other attacks like fire and projectiles, so he can probably block or absorb anything Mystique or Marrow shoot at him while he comes in. So even if he gets tagged by Banshee or a targeted tremor by Quake, he will at the very least be able to accomplish his mission before being taken out, which is to paralyze and/or fillet as many of them as possible. His wings are just too fast. I don't see Mystique, Quake, or Lorelei having a chance here. They're not going to have a chance to spread out and seek cover or seek out my team by the time he gets there, and they have no real chance to dodge or protect themselves against him. I don't think Lorelei's songs will have time to be sung and have any effect before Warren takes her out. I don't think Banshee will have time to hypnotize him either; I'm assuming she can only do one or maybe two things with her voice at once. If she's making a shield, she probably can't simultaneously hypnotize. Even with Quake's SHIELD skills, she's a normal human, and he can shoot out a lot of quills. I don't think she dodges every single one.
So let's give your team the benefit of the doubt and assume that Banshee and Marrow are still standing at this point. The rest of your strategy is pretty much over since the other members are paralyzed. You can't really advance on my team because Marrow and Banshee are too busy dealing with Archangel.
Domino will then come sneaking up and act as a sniper against the remaining members. Julia will also use her webs from a distance. I don't see Banshee using her sonar to find them because she's going to have her hands full with Warren. This should really take Marrow down for sure, and possibly Banshee. But once again, since she is the most powerful and diversely-powered member of your group, let's assume she's still standing. She's really got her hands full, so she's got her shields up, and is probably flying out.
Gargoyle will then attack her. His life-draining blasts will go through any shield she makes as they are quasi-mystical, and will weaken her to the point of being unable to fight. (His demon body would also, I believe, be at the very least resistant to any charming effects by Banshee or Lorelei, just as an aside.) He also possesses above average durability and would be resistant to anyone's shots or sonic blasts--not immune, but he could take a few blasts and still attack back on his own. Gargoyle will eventually take her down.
Black Knight would continue to twiddle his fingers unless he is needed to cut something really durable!
Summary
I think the teams are reasonably close in power, but your team needs some time and breathing room to use its special powers, and my team would not give them that time. I would take it 6 or 7 out of 10.
A few scans of Archangel's speed and maneuverability and ability to dodge in the air (even with just his normal, slower wings), Archangel smashing through durable stuff like a tank with his metal wings (much more durable than Marrow), Archangel soloing the rest of X-Factor in his first appearance (showing how many pinions he can shoot, and how hard they are to dodge, even for Beast), Julia using her precog as a tactical asset against Spidey (who here has no Spider-sense but has learned kung fu), and Julia using her webs to catch someone as fast and agile as Shang-Chi.
@Owie: why must you make me read so much lol, ill respond with my chunk tonight or tomorrow morning, good shit though.
Yeah I know, sorry, it got a little out of hand! Our characters are too complicated...and your team is too good to argue against without covering my backside.
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