Current silver surfer as we all know has gotten a pretty good amp (being able to lay the smak down on Beta Ray Bill is a prime example, which is like taking out a bloodlusted thor as BRB tends to not holdback) and i hear Current Darkseid is weaker then he used to be so i wanted to know what you guys think a fight between these 2 cosmics would go.
Darkseid can't seem to take anyone out with his Omega Effect these days, but apparently all the Darkseids anyone's fought lately has been an avatar. I'll have to go with Darkseid if it's his true form, and Surfer if it's his avatar.
The most recent Darkseid is the one from Final Crisis. He was a multiversal threat and had the Anti-Life Equation. He wins easily. And no one give me that shit about Batman or I will school you on radion bullets.
Actually, all he was doing was affecting (new) earth, which is the epicentre of the multiverse. He wasn't actually affecting the multiverse, iirc. The ALE is an upgrade/artifact, which, really, isn't fair, nor is it stated he has it. And @Freefa11 said:
Isn't current Darkseid still dead? Or did they bring him back recently?
@entropy_aegis said:
@Freefa11 said:
"Isn't current Darkseid still dead? Or did they bring him back recently? "
I was thinking the same thing.
which begs the question, when people say CURRENT Darkseid, as in, just before he died...or?? Because all DS was in FC was his dying spirit/soul causing having during his fall, and that was actually his essence inhabiting Turpin's body, which was still far from a match for Superman physically. Damn, DS has gotten so hard to bat for, cause there's so many incarnations, avatars and everything in between. Say, has there been any word what if any his role will be in the DCU reboot?
@CitizenBane: If DS was a multiversal threat, then it was in a peculiar way that did not scale down to a more local level at all, since he was basically defenseless against, Superman, the Flashes, or Black Racer.
Of course, that's actually a pretty big "if," since what seemed to be happening was more of just the universe having a strange and unexplained reaction to his death, sort of like an allergy. Really, it was just a Morrison plot device, meaning it came out of nowhere with zero explanation and was incredibly vague as to how or why it was supposed to work.
The ALE in Final Crisis was kind of weak compared to other versions. It was basically just a mind control power, but you still had to get people to listen to it or read it before it worked on them, and it could be blocked by that symbol Mr. Miracle had. Again, didn't help him against Superman, Flash, Black Racer, or Batman (and in this case, the Radion bullet is irrelevant, because if the ALE worked the way it did for Orion or Miracle, then he could have stopped Batman from firing it in the first place with just a word).
@Assman: One problem with Darkseid is there's also a lot of misinformation on him floating around. For example, people will frequently post scans of Darkseid's "fight" with Lobo as proof of his durability, without realizing that those aren't canon, because practically nobody has bothered to find out where they actually come from. People will claim various losses were actually just avatars, without providing any proof that they were avatars; usually the most they will give is evidence that Darkseid is capable of making avatars, but not that any particular instance actually was one, or a vague allusion to some interview with Grant Morrison that they heard about somewhere (and I'm pretty sure interviews aren't automatically canon anyway).
In general, post-crisis Darkseid is pretty massively overrated. By far his most effective ability is BFRing people. Aside from that, he's not much higher than Superman.
Darkseid was only a multiversal threat because he defied death, which was messing up the natural order of Earth Zero/New Earth, and by extension, was screwing up the natural order of the other 51 universes. And even then, the majority of the multiversal damage was because of Mandrakk leeching off of everything while Darkseid threw it into chaos.
@Freefa11: A lot of his defencelessness against Supes, Flash and Black Racer (come on, that guy can kill anyone with a touch) was because of the damage he suffered in the fight where he killed Orion. Even Batman said that Orion had left DS "a rotting carcass, just waiting to die".
@CitizenBane: If DS was a multiversal threat, then it was in a peculiar way that did not scale down to a more local level at all, since he was basically defenseless against, Superman, the Flashes, or Black Racer.
Of course, that's actually a pretty big "if," since what seemed to be happening was more of just the universe having a strange and unexplained reaction to his death, sort of like an allergy. Really, it was just a Morrison plot device, meaning it came out of nowhere with zero explanation and was incredibly vague as to how or why it was supposed to work.
The ALE in Final Crisis was kind of weak compared to other versions. It was basically just a mind control power, but you still had to get people to listen to it or read it before it worked on them, and it could be blocked by that symbol Mr. Miracle had. Again, didn't help him against Superman, Flash, Black Racer, or Batman (and in this case, the Radion bullet is irrelevant, because if the ALE worked the way it did for Orion or Miracle, then he could have stopped Batman from firing it in the first place with just a word).
@Assman: One problem with Darkseid is there's also a lot of misinformation on him floating around. For example, people will frequently post scans of Darkseid's "fight" with Lobo as proof of his durability, without realizing that those aren't canon, because practically nobody has bothered to find out where they actually come from. People will claim various losses were actually just avatars, without providing any proof that they were avatars; usually the most they will give is evidence that Darkseid is capable of making avatars, but not that any particular instance actually was one, or a vague allusion to some interview with Grant Morrison that they heard about somewhere (and I'm pretty sure interviews aren't automatically canon anyway). In general, post-crisis Darkseid is pretty massively overrated. By far his most effective ability is BFRing people. Aside from that, he's not much higher than Superman.
@CitizenBane: Regardless, if Darkseid were truly a "multiversal" power at the time, as the term is typically used, then I would expect him to at least be capable of mounting some sort of offense or defense against two characters who are barely planetary. Black Racer is a little more ambiguous, since he doesn't actually ever fight, but I'd still think even he would have problems with a multiversal powerhouse who didn't want to cooperate.
Plus, ThanosIsMad makes a very good point. I always forget about Mandrakk in relation to Final Crisis (since he has almost nothing to do with the main series), but Superman Beyond 3D does give a pretty good indication that it is really Mandrakk who is killing the multiverse. And frankly it makes a lot more sense than Darkseid somehow being able to bring down all of creation, even though in the past he has repeatedly had trouble bringing down Superman.
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