#1 Edited by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio

It's time to start off a new tournament! One that'll hopefully be more fair than first come first serve! Btw, Please read!
 
Here's what your team must consist of: 
 
1 Leader: This is the person who leads your team, who tells the orders. This person can have strength up to 99 tons, but can not surpass it! The leaders powers must be limited. Such as, Dr. Strange would not be allowed to be a leader. He's too powerful. Characters such as Dr. Doom, Iron Man, Lobo, Superman, Thor, Silver Surfer, ect... Are too powerful to be the leader. If you have a Leader, but is unsure if that leader is within the power limits, ask me.  
 
2 Street Level Characters: These characters are not allowed to have strength above spiderman level. Speed must be able to be seen with in the human eye. No energy Projection powers. Powers that are allowed are Healing factors, enhanced senses, marksmen skills, intelligence...ect... 
 
1 Energy Projection: This is the Human Torch of Fantastic four. The iceman of the X-men. Starfire of the Teen Titians. This character has to have powers that he or she uses for range. Strength limit is 100 tons. Speed has to be able to be seen by the Super-human eye. Powerful characters such as Dr. Doom(Too powerful in Magic), firelord, thor, or anyother powerful character that has Energy projection powers are not allowed.  
 
1 Power: This is where characters such as Superman, Thor, Hercules, Hulk, Maybe even Iron Man are picked at. You may only have power character, Strength has to be beyond 100 tons and Strength/ Durability level may not go pass Supermans!   
 

1 Miscellaneous: 

This is where I personally believe that you define your team. This is where you can pick someone like Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Ghost RIder, Silver Surfer, Circe...ect... This is a choice much like the Power choice, except this one does not have to be strong. It could be a dark magic choice such as Dr. Doom. Or a Demon like Ghost Rider...Ghost Rider is the most powerful Demon you're allowed to pick. No characters that could solo teams such as Mephisto. No cosmic characters that surpass Silver Surfer. You may also just pick another Power here instead of Miscellaneous, but I suggest you be creative. More fun that way! 
 
RULES!!!!!

 
So here are the rules... 
 
 
1.) No characters that are beyond Ghost Rider as a demon, Silver Surfer as a cosmic, Thor as a god(Wonder women, Hercules, Ares from DC, are all okay), and Superman as strength. Only Superman characters allowe are Superboy, Superman, and Supergirl. NO SUPERMAN PRIME OR SUPERBOY PRIME.  
 
2.) Neither Juggernaut nor any type of flash(Zoom) are allowed.   
 

3.) NO TELEPATHS. Noone with mind powers!

 
4.)If you chose Hulk as a character, you only get Hulk. Not World War Hulk. Not Worldbreaker Hulk. Just the regular Hulk that gets stronger by Anger. 
 
 

5.) You MUST chose one of your members to be the Prepper

.    
 
6.) Once a character is Selected, You may NOT have that same character. And you may not pick another version of that character. 
 
7.) If it's clear you didn't read the rules, I will ignore you.  
 

8.) Only Villians can team with Villians, and heroes with heroes.  

   
9.)All teams get three years to work together before the tournament, and So they will be able to work together well.  

10.) Have fun! :) Ask me if you have questions or if it seems like I forgot to say something! 
 
11.) 

ONLY MARVEL AND DC! 

 
12.) Let me re-state a rule.

If you don't read the rules, I will not comment to your post!

  
 
 
My team will be an Example... 
 
Leader:

 
Ares, Marvels God of war. His strength is 65 tons, so he's in the limit. I picked him(Mainly because I love him) because of his ability to Stragize. Of course some people will say he is way too powerful and should only be able to have him as a Power. Then I'd say, read an Ares comic or see how he does on battles on comic vine. He can be hurt by Bullets and swords. And not to mention he gets ripped in half by an overhyped, overpowered, mentally insane freak! (Sorry, Fanboyism got me hard) 
 

2 Street Levels: 
 
Fantomex. 

I've chosen this Character to be my Prepper. He's smart, cunning, good at prepping, amazing with weapons, and can pack a lot of damage. 
  
  

Punisher.

He's my second pick for my Street Level. I picked him because I feel he's a better fighter than most, amazing durability for a human, and exceptional Marksmenship.  
 
Energy Projection:

 

StarFire. 

Starfire is strong,  and amazing example of Energy Projection. She's also my only women.  
  
Power:


 

Thor.

Thor is my favorite strong character. I like Him MUCH more than Superman, Hulk, Wonderwomen and so on.  
 

Miscellaneous

:  
  

Ghost Rider(Johnny Blaze):

I'm not going to lie, I heavly considered Superman or Silver Surfer for this pick. But I just couldn't. I know what Ghost Rider is capable of. Especially Johnny. My only fear about picking him is what if I go against someone who has Dr. Doom? Then he's in trouble. Because most likely if you're going to have a villian group, then you're going to have Dr. Doom as the Prep person. 
  
 
 
 

I need 24 teams to start the tournament! I was going to go with 16, but I figured more people will want to fight in this tournament.


  •  
     
     
    Part of this tournament now! 
    Ghost Rider 29 
    The Stegman 
    beatboks1 
    Raineffect  
  • Sherlock
  • Bornstar
  • CapedCrusaider
  • BataTest
  • IfDCRuledTheWorld
  • TheMightyAvenger
     Hyiena
  • Donovan Montgomery
  • teamextrodinary15
  • Greendevil
  • crackerjack82
  • Doveland
  • HigorM
  • Backflip
     
     
     
     
     

Characters already selected! 

 
Batman

  • Deadpool
  • Black Canary
  • Ms. Marvel
  • Captain Marvel
  • Vril Dox II
  • Argus
  • Manhunter
  • Ray
  • Alan Scot
  • Dr. Fate
  • Ares(Marvel)
  • Fantomex
  • Punisher
  • Star Fire
  • Thor
  • Ghost Rider(JB)
  • Wolverine
  • Echo as Ronin
  • Jason Todd
  • Penance
  • Wonder Women
  • Super Skrull
  • MoonStone
  • Deathstroke
  • Prometheus
  • Gambit
  • Bizarro
  • Larfleez
  • Spiderman
  • Nightwing
  • Green Arrow
  • Fire Star
  • Hulk
  • Dr. Strange
  • Black Panther
  • Nightcrawler
  • Sentry
  • Firestorm
  • Heimdall
  • Mr. Terrific
  • Prodigy
  • BIshop
  • Blue Marvel
  • Fallen One
  • Black Bolt
  • Karnak
  • Daken
  • Iceman
  • Ironman
  • Martian Manhunter
  • Magneto
  • Mandarin
  • Owlman
  • Metallo
  • Black Adam
  • General Zod
  • Ikaris
  • Hawkeye
  • Nick Fury
  • Captain Mar-Vell(616)
  • Stardust 
  • Jade
  • Iron Patriot
  • Sabretooth
  • Bullseye
  • Sentry
  • Nitro
  • Dr. Doom
  • Mr. Fantastic
  • Animal Man
  • Red Tornado
  • Powergirl
  • Hal Jordan
  • Cosmic Boy
  • Punisher2099
  • Vendetta
  • Skullfire
  • Hulk 2099
  • Mon-El(No ring)
    Spartan
  • Spiderman 2099
  • Moon Knight
  • The High
  • Adam Warlock
  • Ronan
  • Beta Ray Bill
  • Silver Surfer
  • Nova
  • Beast
  • Forge
  • Invisable Women
  • Psylocke(No T)
  • Tim Drake
  • Namor
  • Spider women
  • Hawkman
  • Winter Soldier
  • Black Widow
  • Vulcan
  • Gladiator
  • Captain Britian
  • Sage
  • Black Tarantula
  • Meggan
  • Starbreaker
  • High Evolutionary
#2 Posted by The Stegman (20733 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29: can green lanterns be used as leaders or energy projections?
#3 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Stegman
No, they can only be used in power and Miscullaneous.
#4 Edited by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio

Leader: Captain America
 
Street Levelers: 
Edward Elric.
Greed Ling

Energy Projection: 
Cole Macgrath 

Power:
Silver Surfer 

Miscellaneous:  
Quasar
 
 
That Should be good.... Ask me if they are over.

#5 Edited by The Stegman (20733 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29:  
 
cool, ok,  
 
Leader- Batman (Bruce Wayne) 
 
Street Levelers- Deadpool, Black Canary 
 
Energy Projection- Ms.Marvel (Carol Danvers) 
 
Power- Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) 
 
Miscellaneous- Jade (Dc)
#6 Posted by super_psycho (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

Leader:

Batman 1000000

Street Levels:

Deathstroke

Midnighter

Energy Projection:

Iceman

Power:

Wonder Woman

Miscellaneous:

Surfer

#7 Posted by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio
@super_psycho:  
 
Batman 1,000,000 knows TP IIRC, and Midnighter is NOT Street Level.
#8 Posted by super_psycho (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCerealKillz said:

@super_psycho: Batman 1,000,000 knows TP IIRC, and Midnighter is NOT Street Level.

he only knows telepathic martial arts he cannot mindrape someone. i think midnighter is street level but those gadgets give him the edge over others

#9 Posted by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio
@super_psycho said:

@TheCerealKillz said:

@super_psycho: Batman 1,000,000 knows TP IIRC, and Midnighter is NOT Street Level.

he only knows telepathic martial arts he cannot mindrape someone. i think midnighter is street level but those gadgets give him the edge over others

Oh okay.
#10 Edited by beatboks1 (6371 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by Warcry80 (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Leader : Wolverine 
 
Street Leveler (Prepper) : Blade 
 
Street leveler : Dante (DMC) 
 
Energy Projector : Vegeta (DBZ) 
 
Power: Lobo  
 
Miscelllaneous: Spawn 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I GIVE YOU........ THE RENEGADE AVENGERS!!!

#12 Edited by Greendevil (1873 posts) - - Show Bio

1 Leader:

Ronan The Accuser

Ronan cuz he is a strong leader, and can also dish out some heavy leather when needed

2 Street Level:

Gambit, Beast (prep)

1 Energy Projecton:

Nova Prime

1 Power:

BRB

1 Miscellaneous :

Surfer

#13 Edited by hyiena (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

Leader-Iron Patriot, Streetlevelers- Sabretooth and Bullseye, Power-Sentry, Energy Projection-Nitro, Miscellaneous-Dr. Doom (prep)

#14 Posted by beatboks1 (6371 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29 said:

 
6.) Once a character is Selected, You may NOT have that same character. And you may not pick another version of that character. 
 

Hi All, Just wanted to point out this rule from OP
Everyone after Stegman has at least one character to take out/ replace.
#15 Edited by IfDCRuledTheWorld (628 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me know if I have to change a few folks.

I'm gonna go Villians here:

Leader Magneto

Street Mandarin and Owlman (prep)

Energy Metallo

Power Black Adam

Misc. General Zod

#16 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys, please read the rules.
 
Once a character is selected, that character is off-limits. 
Your team must be either ALL HEROES or ALL VILLAINS
 
And I'm pretty sure anime isn't allowed.

#17 Edited by crackerjack82 (2606 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider29:

jack Hawksmoor Leader

Earth 1610

Black Panther, prep Taskmaster counts He has been part of the avengers,the training camp, so he is more of an anti-hero, as he is a mercenary. If not i'll pick another

The Power

The High

Miscellaneous:

Energy projector

X-Men: Legacy

, i will use Havok

#18 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

The Following Characters Are Taken

  • Ares (Marvel)
  • Deathstroke
  • Punisher
  • Starfire
  • Thor
  • Ghost Rider
  • Wolverine
  • Echo
  • Jason Todd
  • Mahr Vehl (1610 Version)
  • Wonder Woman
  • Super Skrull
The rest of you need to discuss with GhostRider29 about your picks. I'm helping him out by pointing out some of the basics.
#19 Posted by crackerjack82 (2606 posts) - - Show Bio

@IfDCRuledTheWorld: I thought Deathstroke was taken, Or was that just an example team?

#20 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2166 posts) - - Show Bio
Leader: Captain America (Rogers, Marvel Comics).
Street Levelers: Yuri Boyka (Undisputed III, Movie) and Jin Kazama (Tekken, LA Movie).
Energy Projector: Grace (Soulfire Comics).
Power: Kenshiro (Fist of the Northstar, Manga).
Miscellaneous: Goku (Super Saiyan, DBZ Manga).
#21 Edited by crackerjack82 (2606 posts) - - Show Bio

Why @Dark Cloud™: did you only choose one street level when the OP says 2 secondly you cant have Anime vs comic it's against the rules

#22 Edited by IfDCRuledTheWorld (628 posts) - - Show Bio

@crackerjack82: Oh, okay. I understand the rules now. Replace Deathstroke with Mandarin. And Zod for prep. That should do it. Thanks for the heads up.

#23 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@crackerjack82:  
The example team is my team.
@Dark Cloud™:  
Manga/Anime not allowed.
@Greendevil:  
You as well, have to change quite a few characters.
@beatboks1:  
I have no clue some of your picks are.
@super_psycho: 
You need to change almost your whole team. 
@TheCerealKillz: 
Quasar is too powerful. Do you see him being an actually leader? Also, you can't have villians and heroes on the same team. Dr. Doom has to be taken out.  
#24 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay I'm going to edit the rules a little bit. For one, I'm going to make it only Marvel and DC. So noone tries to many things. Also, I will reannounce a rule. I WILL NO LONGER MESSAGE YOU OR COUNT YOUR TEAM IF YOU DON"T READ ALL OF THE RULES. I understand simple mess ups. But some of these teams... AHHH!

#25 Posted by Sherlock (7088 posts) - - Show Bio

I should Have a team up in the next hour or so 
@GhostRider29
Your breaking your own rules mon ami.Deathstroke and Ares are both villains the rest of your team are heroes

#26 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sherlock
Omg I feel like an Idiot. Do you know what happened? I was going to have a villian team, but it got too powerful. So I decided to turn into good guys. I meant to turn Deathstroke into Fantomex. And Ares isn't a villian. He only fought as a bad guy for his son. Once he finally realized just how insane and bad Osborn was, he turned good again. Unfortunatly... led to him getting ripped in half. And please make a team, I need someone that actually know what they're doing. Only two are 100% good.
#27 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect
Turn that Deathstroke into Fantomex. I made that dumb mistake. I originally was going to go with a villian team but changed it. Forgot to changed Deathstroke. That's my bad!
#28 Posted by Sherlock (7088 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29: I need to come up with something first.I dont take these things lightly you know
#29 Posted by beatboks1 (6371 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29 said:
@beatboks1:  I have no clue some of your picks are.
That was why I linked all of them to their CV page.  Plus it was easier to make a list of characters that no one else would pick
 
However.
 
Vrill Dox II is the cloned son of Braniac and leader of the planetary police force L.E.G.I.O.N he is a 10th level genius who is brilliant in almost all fields of science. Brilliant tactician and a  master manipulator. His tactical ability has seen him easily defeat galactic armadas and empires.  Prep master. Greatest character flaw is his arrogance ( think Alien Dr Doom without armor)
Argus is mildly physically enhanced (speed strength agility x 5) with a healing factor equal to Wolverine (his eyes grew back from being gouged out) he sees all the visible and non visible spectrum (infra red Ultra violet, xray) and can meld with shadows for stealth  (appears to be invisible, a light shone on him counters)
Manhunter (Mark Shaw) - Member of the manhunter cult who wears a uniform of kevlar, martial artist and stealth master. his mask has infra red, vision enhancement (for distances) and a unidirectional mic that acts like super hearing, it is also a gas mask. His only other weapon is a manhunter battle staff. The staff is a magnetic pulse weapon that uses magnetic force to help him move between buildings and repel attract or throw  things, affect electronics.
 Ray is light powered he "rides" on light beams and absorbs and generates light beams of various intensity his father was a member of teh Freedom Fighters he was a JLAer
Alan Scot - first Green lantern (you said they could only be power or misc'
Doctor Fate - DC equal to Dr Strange
#30 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2166 posts) - - Show Bio
@crackerjack82 said:

Why @Dark Cloud™: did you only choose one street level when the OP says 2 secondly you cant have Anime vs comic it's against the rules

No, I chose 2 characters. Yuri Boyka and Jin Kazama, it was clearly noted.
 
And when I read the rules, nowhere did it state, "No Anime/Manga characters," nor did it state, "Marvel and DC Characters only."
#31 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1:  
Okay your team is allowed. So now there's offically three teams on here. I need to recheck some other teams. But thanks for explain. Saves me a lot of time. And I believed that you were listening to the rules. For someone to post people from marvel and Dc that I don't really Recongize, then that usually means they know what they're doing. I only knew Manhunter, Alan Scot, and Doctor Fate(Who I believe is just a little bit better than Dr. Strange).
@Sherlock: 
I know. You're good at this.  
 
#32 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@crackerjack82 said:

Why @Dark Cloud™: did you only choose one street level when the OP says 2 secondly you cant have Anime vs comic it's against the rules

No, I chose 2 characters. Yuri Boyka and Jin Kazama, it was clearly noted.

And when I read the rules, nowhere did it state, "No Anime/Manga characters," nor did it state, "Marvel and DC Characters only."

In the actual Battle Forum Rules, it states that Anime vs Comic is not allowed.

#33 Posted by beatboks1 (6371 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29 said:
I need someone that actually know what they're doing. Only two are 100% good.
I'm curious what exactly is wrong with Stegman's team and my own (I'm assuming of course the two 100% correct are yours and Rain Effects). 

I realize that under your amended rules I can no longer have Alan Scot as Power (since he isn't stronger than 100Tons) so will substitute with Valor.  that's Mon-el from Daxam by the way before he ever got a power ring but after a mildly effective antidote for lead was  administered. Since I'd like to keep Alan I'll swap him for Fate (unless your allowing Alan as power - he can use his starheart power to make him more than 100 ton strong)
#34 Posted by beatboks1 (6371 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29 said:
@beatboks1:  Okay your team is allowed. So now there's offically three teams on here. I need to recheck some other teams. But thanks for explain. Saves me a lot of time. And I believed that you were listening to the rules. For someone to post people from marvel and Dc that I don't really Recongize, then that usually means they know what they're doing. I only knew Manhunter, Alan Scot, and Doctor Fate(Who I believe is just a little bit better than Dr. Strange).@Sherlock: I know. You're good at this.   
disregard post above (you beat me to it.)
#35 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@crackerjack82:  
Jack has telepathy powers(Not all fights in this tournament will take place in a city as well) and who are two of your characters? No names? Lol And I still count Taskmaster as a villian. 

@hyiena: 
Mister X is a telepath. Radioactive man is too powerful to be in Energy Projection. Unless you can prove otherwise.  
  
 

 
#36 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark Cloud™
I changed it to ONLY Marvel and DC because Everyone was putting Anime characters. Those are not allowed and could get my post locked. And I refuse to have this locked for that silly reason.
#37 Posted by bornstar (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

She - Hulk (leader)

Batman (prepper)

Wolverine

Firestar

Hulk

Dr Strange

#38 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@IfDCRuledTheWorld
Venom is too strong. Metallo may be too powerful, though I do have to say I don't know much about him. But from what I learned, he's a threat to even Superman? If so, that's a Power, not a EP. Everyone else is fine.
#39 Edited by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@bornstar
Change your leader, and Batman, then you're in.
#40 Posted by Sherlock (7088 posts) - - Show Bio

Leader:Moonstone
 
Street Level: Deathstroke (Prep),Prometheus
 
Energy Projection: Gambit (Death Persona)
 
Power: Bizarro
 
Misc:Larfleez

#41 Edited by Dark Cloud™ (2166 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@crackerjack82 said:

Why @Dark Cloud™: did you only choose one street level when the OP says 2 secondly you cant have Anime vs comic it's against the rules

No, I chose 2 characters. Yuri Boyka and Jin Kazama, it was clearly noted.

And when I read the rules, nowhere did it state, "No Anime/Manga characters," nor did it state, "Marvel and DC Characters only."

In the actual Battle Forum Rules, it states that Anime vs Comic is not allowed.

No duh. That's for Anime/Manga vs Comic threads created by the thread owner, not as an answer/response to a post-made battle.
 
@GhostRider29 said:

@Dark Cloud™: I changed it to ONLY Marvel and DC because Everyone was putting Anime characters. Those are not allowed and could get my post locked. And I refuse to have this locked for that silly reason.


Refer to my previous sentence.
#42 Posted by bornstar (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider29:

Batman (prepper)(leader)

She - Hulk

Wolverine

Firestar

Hulk

Dr Strange

#43 Posted by Sherlock (7088 posts) - - Show Bio
@bornstar said:

@GhostRider29:

Batman (prepper)(leader)

She - Hulk

Wolverine

Firestar

Hulk

Dr Strange

Shulkie is way too strong for street level.The only cats she fits into are misc and power
#44 Posted by beatboks1 (6371 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29 said:
@IfDCRuledTheWorld: Venom is too strong. Metallo may be too powerful, though I do have to say I don't know much about him. But from what I learned, he's a threat to even Superman? If so, that's a Power, not a EP. Everyone else is fine.
Whilst Metallo is a threat to Superman, that has more to do with his power source being Kryptonite than his actual power level. I don't believe he'd fare so well against say Mon-el or Captain Marvel who are physically in the same arena. Personally I don't see his physical strength as greater than Kory (your choice for EP). Though to be honest the instances when he "projected" the Kryptonite energy aren't regular enough IMO to class him as an EP (he has and does do it but not a main line)
#45 Edited by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sherlock
You. Are. In.
#46 Posted by bornstar (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sherlock said:

@bornstar said:

@GhostRider29:

Batman (prepper)(leader)

She - Hulk

Wolverine

Firestar

Hulk

Dr Strange

Shulkie is way too strong for street level.The only cats she fits into are misc and power

Spiderman (leader)

batman (prepper)

Wolverine

Firestar

Hulk

Dr Strange

#47 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1
Thank you for helping. I don't know who Metallo is. So it's fine. I thought he was a threat for different reasons. So he's allowed.
#48 Posted by Sherlock (7088 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29: Excellent and Beatboks is correct
#49 Posted by Sherlock (7088 posts) - - Show Bio
@bornstar said:

@Sherlock said:

@bornstar said:

@GhostRider29:

Batman (prepper)(leader)

She - Hulk

Wolverine

Firestar

Hulk

Dr Strange

Shulkie is way too strong for street level.The only cats she fits into are misc and power

Spiderman (leader)

batman (prepper)

Wolverine

Firestar

Hulk

Dr Strange

I see nothing wrong with that one
#50 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sherlock
Multitasking has never been my greatest quality. I meant to tell him Batman was already taken from way back. That's all.