Count Dooku vs Obi-wan vs Anakin

Who wins?

Rules:

1.) Each character is from Episode 3 - ROTS.

2.) Anakin has turned to the darkside and is now pre-suit Darth Vader.

3.) Battle takes place in the Emperor's office.

Three-way fight. Who wins this?

Tuff call, I'm inclined to say obi wan but dooku and Anakin could always double team obi,,,and obi had his hands full with Anakin alone in the third film add dooku to the mix and they could take him out than Anakin kills dooku.....I'd say Anakin FTW but there are many variables to consider as far as double teaming or all out madness

OB one

Anakin wins this.

OB won Anakin, Dooku lost to anakin so

Obi Wan

OB won Anakin, Dooku lost to anakin so

Obi Wan

anakin should win 6 out of 10 times. he is much faster and stronger than obi wan or dooku. he only lost to obi wan because of arrogance and field disadvantage

@kcaz said:

@Squalleon said:

OB won Anakin, Dooku lost to anakin so

Obi Wan

but obi wan lost to dooku. so it rock paper scissors.

Exactly what I thought!

However, if Anakin uses his brain, I would probably favor him here.

@Kingshark said:

However, if Anakin uses his brain, I would probably favor him here.

Anakin has no brain :-p

anakin. he only lost because of that level difference. now he owns. there is an alternate ending in the game where he makes it.

Obi-wan, as a lightside character he is more inclined to wait the other 2 more agressive darksiders out, let them get tired before taking the beatdown on a tired victor.

@kcaz said:

anakin should win 6 out of 10 times. he is much faster and stronger than obi wan or dooku. he only lost to obi wan because of arrogance and field disadvantage

Arrogance could still come into play and this version of Anakin doesn't have that much of a brain but in terms of raw power and rage, Anakin has that in spades. He should take this.

Anakin wins.

Obi-Wan

@Bane_of_sith said:

Tuff call, I'm inclined to say obi wan but dooku and Anakin could always double team obi,,,and obi had his hands full with Anakin alone in the third film add dooku to the mix and they could take him out than Anakin kills dooku.....I'd say Anakin FTW but there are many variables to consider as far as double teaming or all out madness

This a three way fight. Each person is on an even playing field.

This is still an arrogant Anakin...so due to that Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan also trained Anakin, and if this is Obi-Wan at his best, he will beat Dooku.

@Bruxae said:

Obi-wan, as a lightside character he is more inclined to wait the other 2 more agressive darksiders out, let them get tired before taking the beatdown on a tired victor.

I'm not sure how he'd wait it out, I'd think Anakin would be even more fixated to fight Obi-Wan then Dooku.

@Squalleon said:

@Kingshark said:

However, if Anakin uses his brain, I would probably favor him here.

Anakin has no brain :-p

thats not right, he is one of the brightest jedi there is, he commands the front lines and won many battles by outmaneuvered the droid army, commanded by tactical genius like dooku or general grievous. its just that because obi wan trains anakin since he was a kid, obi wan knows him well. but in terms of physical attribuites like strength, speed, etc, anakin was better since he is younger

It would be a really big brawl. Nobody would help anybody. It'd be a slaughter.

If Anakin is still not torn, he could very well win. He can overpower Tyrannus and Obi-Wan stalemated him while he was torn, and then he made a mistake, although of course Obi-Wan was unable to let go his despair at that time.

Honestly, this can go any way. If Tyrannus kills Kenobi, Anakin can then overpower Tyrannus (hopefully) with Djem So's advantage over Makashi.

If Tyrannus goes for Anakin and gets slain first, Obi-Wan now has Soresu and could last quite well against Anakin. That fight can be a stalemate or go either way.

If Obi-Wan and Anakin fight first, Tyrannus can play them off and use any advantages possible, making it likely for him to win (via eliminating Anakin first, then proceeding to kill Obi-Wan).

@ShootingNova said:

LOl, seriously? Obi-Wan and Anakin stomp. Anakin alone beats Tyrannus, with Obi-wan here they definitely win.

Perhaps not like that, but Dooku was already buckling from non-Dark Side Anakin's attacks. I'd like to think team wins again.

There is no team.

It's a 3 way brawl.

Read the thread before you post next time.

@Kingshark: I did read it, but I read it wrong. Sorry, I'll edit my post.

Obi wan is my favourite.. about the fight.. a real tough call..

@kcaz: kidding man, relax!

Dooku stomps. The book revealed. he was holding back because palpatine wanted Anakin alive. If he wasn't, what happened to obi-wan would have happened to Anakin as they were basically even.

Obi wan gets thrown out of the way like usual. -_- *cries*

Obi Wan wins. His style best suits a free for all.

Agreed.

"Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.

Dooku doesn't have the permission to kill Anakin in that fight.

Palpatine : If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.

And because of that, I believe Dooku didn't use any force attack on Anakin like he used on Obi-Wan.

However, I disagree about Dooku is stomping them, but he would win the majority via his force superiority. Since pre-suit Anakin's force powers are still not enough to compete with Dooku,

Pre-suit Anakin stalemates with Obi-Wan at mustafar

And defeated by Dooku's TK & force lightning combination twice in TCW

season 4 - episode 18

season 4 - episode 4

Although I think Anakin still has a little advantage in lightsaber combat to Dooku since Count has a weakness to physical assaults and strong kinetic attacks, but that doesn't give a huge advantage to Anakin since Anakin can't consistently perform enough physical power to take down Dooku, with that level of his. As for Obi-Wan, I don't believe that Anakin can defeat Obi-Wan for the majority, he lacks experience and Obi-Wan successfully used his sokan mastery on him, not only ''high ground'' part Obi-Wan used his sokan maneuvers lot in that battle and it was only a matter of time in my opinion.

Dooku vs. Anakin = Dooku 8 of 10

Dooku vs. Obi-Wan = Dooku 9 of 10

Anakin vs. Obi-Wan = Obi-Wan 8 of 10

Dooku wins this.

Anakin.

Dooku since Ani is hindered at this point, but Anakin could and should beat Kenobi if not suffering from PIS, for a majority and Dooku would beat Obi-wan 10/10.

If Anakin is hindered, I would favor Dooku. Otherwise, Anakin wins.

I feel like Obi Wan would find a way to win this or escape alive but anakin should win.

Anakin wins if he doesn't have CIS.

Vader 6/10.

@erkan12:

To be honest, i think you got it wrong .

Dooku may not have the permission to kill Anakin , yet Dooku did all he could there .

First of all he asked Palp,'' what if he bests me ?''

Means Dooku knows Anakin is not to be underestimated , also did Dooku let Anakin Chop of his arms, something Dooku would NEVER allow, means he got overpowered .

( Dooku would of used force powers if he was having trouble controlling Anakin thrust me, Dooku knew exactly hes arms were at stake here because he would have realized he wasn't having fully control over Anakin means he did all he could including force usage ( which is not possible by the way i think if your getting hit by a lightsaber rush ) )

What we have to consider here , which is a VERY important factor here :

the fight between Dooku , Anakin and Kenobi happened before the fight between Anakin and Kenobi .

Which means there is the possibility that Kenobi got alot better after that threeway fight .

But i do think Kenobi had the field position advantage, however i'd still give this fight to Kenobi , unless it's been proven Kenobi did not get alot better after the Dooku / anakin / Kenobi fight

Kenobi prob wins

I'm sorry, but that form of logic has no substance. The onus is on you to prove that Kenobi was drastically enhanced after the duel aboard the Invisible Hand (and absolutely nothing indicates or even implies that this is the case), not the other way around. You have to prove your propositions, instead of simply proposing something and deeming it true unless it's proven to be false.

obi-wan

Dooku or Anakin

@shootingnova:

It would be a logical answer to the fact why Dooku lost from Anakin, while Kenobi lost to Dooku and Anakin lost from kenobi ...

Anakin solos

@jantjepeter: It is not logical at all. In fact, it's a logical fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_silence

I said : I'D GIVE THIS FIGHT TO KENOBI

What i didn't say : THIS FIGHT GOES TO KENOBI

Also did i say : THERE IS A POSSIBILITY

What i didn't say : IT IS A FACT THAT

So there's NO point for you to post that i have to give info and quotes and stuff to proof what i said because i never confirmed that this IS the true answer .

I just said it's possible .

If there's a woman and she sais to you , hey dude, you car is making a noice, i think there might be something wrong with your batteries, will you say '' Hey woman I'm sorry, but that form of logic has no substance. The onus is on you to prove that my car is broke not the other way around. You have to prove your propositions, instead of simply proposing something and deeming it true unless it's proven to be false.

@jantjepeter: Were you even following the conversation at all, or did you just find it necessary to rant at me because you failed to realize where the conversation was headed, or that you had no other alternative? Tell me where I said anything about whether you considered your opinion as fact or not. Thank you for telling me not to bring up something that I never brought up.

If you were paying attention, I was referring specifically to this, which I quoted in one of my earlier posts:

Which means there is the possibility that Kenobi got alot better after that threeway fight .

unless it's been proven Kenobi did not get alot better after the Dooku / anakin / Kenobi fight

I said that this is unsubstantiated, and the latter is just fallacious logic. I never made any reference to your judgment on the fight's outcome (I disagree, but I don't want to debate). I brought up your misuse of logic for this particular instance, and you choose to rant at me for something I never even did? Try not to be so sightless next time, thank you.

Ok how about the following as proof that Kenobi got better .

The characters we are talking about are characters on picture moments in Rots .

means Dooku the millisecond before he died .

Anakin the millisecond before he got burned .

Kenobi the moment we saw him at Anakin's family on tatooine .

( correct me if i'm wrong )

Kenobi lost from Dooku

Anakin wins from Dooku

Now we know that they only could of gotten better or atleast as good from then on . ( unless they live in a weird world where there skills actually get weaker after practising which is unlogically so lets not assume this )

Means Anakin would have even better chances again Dooku because Dooku we are using in this thread has improved alot less since the invisible hand fight than Anakin and Kenobi .

And Kenobi won from Anakin ( Kenobi is clearly equally skilled and has same force skills on that moment, but he's wiser and has better insight on what gets you killed and what doesn't ) .

This would logically speaking mean that Kenobi improved ALOT since he fought Dooku .

Now that's like evidence itself isn't it ?

That's like

x + 1 = 5 + 3

x = 5 + 3 - 1

x = 7

Y'know what i'm saying ?

By the way you said the onus is on me to proof it , which means humanly speaking that you tought i considered the things i said as a fact .

I quote from you :'' Tell me where I said anything about whether you considered your opinion as fact or not. ''

...

@jantjepeter: I never said you thought that you considered what you said to be fact. Just because it isn't fact doesn't mean you don't have to prove it. That's the whole point of it - you prove it so that it becomes fact.

Anakin wins from Dooku

Because Djem So is effective against Makashi and afforded him an advantage in that sense, and because he tapped into Force rage to amplify himself considerably.

Anakin has never beaten Dooku without circumstances, only fought him evenly.

And Kenobi won from Anakin ( Kenobi is clearly equally skilled and has same force skills on that moment, but he's wiser and has better insight on what gets you killed and what doesn't ) .

Kenobi is not "clearly equally skilled". Anakin was hindered at the point (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader), which is why they were equal. Nick Gillard clearly stated that Anakin is beyond Obi-Wan in skill:

For Nick Gillard outright stating Anakin is a nine whereas Obi-Wan is just an eight:

"Hayden in this film has moved up to a level nine. He's gone past Obi."

(0:01-0:05)

Intrepid37 also uploaded this, from The Making of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith:

This would logically speaking mean that Kenobi improved ALOT since he fought Dooku .

Not really. You're using ABC logic, and there were circumstances in both Obi-Wan vs Anakin and Dooku vs Anakin that you failed to bring up.

Nothing indicates Obi-Wan improved after the duel aboard the InvisibleHand. He still had difficulty against Grievous and won because his form is suited to countering Grievous' (Revenge of the Sith), whereas Dooku repeatedly beats Grievous in sparring matches, including, at times, without being strained.

In a non-circumstantial viewing of the whole affair, Anakin is faster than Obi-Wan (Jedi Quest: The School of Fear, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith), physically stronger (Revenge of the Sith), more powerful (varying sources, but his feats are just better) and more skilled (It's All For Real: The Stunts of Episode III, The Making of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith).

Dooku is faster than Obi-Wan (TCW:The Lost One, The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader), stronger (TCW: The Lost One, Revenge of the Sith novel and comic), more skilful (variety of sources, but we can clearly see his feats are better) and more powerful (Revenge of the Sith, and varying other sources which prove he is vastly more powerful in the Force).

Without circumstances, Obi-Wan comes last. Now, you could argue that Anakin might be hindered here, but this is a separate argument from what I was dissecting earlier.

@shootingnova:

''By the end of the war, Kenobi's mastery of Soresu had developed to the point where he could compete with Dooku. In the ensuing duel, Kenobi and Skywalker both relied on basic lightsaber techniques and strategies, aiming to lull Dooku into a false sense of confidence.^[13] When they suddenly shifted to the advanced fighting methods they had practiced and developed during the interim, Kenobi displayed his full mastery of Soresu. Dooku was astounded by the simplicity and efficiency of his bladework, but also his bewildering speed and precision. Caught off-guard and forced to retreat in confusion, Dooku only succeeded in defeating Kenobi thanks to his superior mastery of the Force.In his final duel with Grievous, Kenobi provided one of the most pure demonstrations of Soresu. His blade's intricate pattern of blocks and parries moved just fast enough to subtly interfere with Grievous' multiple strikes, while his slight dodges and shifts of stance facilitated his simple evasion of the rest. As a frustrated Grievous ramped up the intensity of his assault, Kenobi countered by merely altering the angle of his parries, clipping off two of Grievous' mechanical wrists.^[5] However, Grievous' inability to defeat Kenobi may have been due to the injuries recently dealt to him by Mace Windu during theBattle of Coruscant.^[24]Kenobi proved to be one of the only Jedi able to engage Darth Vader and emerge victorious, as his Soresu mastery perfectly countered Vader's angry Form V. Kenobi simply deflected and blocked Darth Vader's relentless rain of blows, returning counter-blows himself to disrupt Vader's onslaught, all the while guiding the battle to a location of his choice, before finally dismembering the hapless and enragedSith Lord when his defense lapsed.^{[5] ''}

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_III:_Soresu

''The fact that Vader's connection to the Force was, at the time, stronger than any known Force user in history further exemplifies Kenobi's mastery of the technique. Obi-Wan was capable of other telekinetic feats and could use the Force to increase his body's endurance and agility, amplifying his speed to such an extent that he could literally disappear from sight in a blur, either to avoid attacks or to strike first with his own. Kenobi was also capable of using the Force to perform extensive acrobatics, allowing him to leap huge distances and cover much more ground in a much shorter amount of time.''

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Obi-Wan_Kenobi

''Yoda assigned Obi-Wan to deal with Anakin, who had left Coruscant for the lava planet Mustafar. Both powerful and evenly matched, the two former friends dueled to a stalemate until Anakin attempted to leap over his old Master, which Obi-Wan warned him not to try. The new Sith, filled with rage and hubris, ignored these pleas; Obi-Wan severed his legs and arm. ''

http://www.starwars.com/databank/obi-wan-kenobi

Did you notice the UNTIL ?

This refers to the fact it was a stalemate , but it changes in Kenobi's favor .

Means Kenobi is better from then on .

Anakin might be a 9, while Kenobi is an 8, but Kenobi is THE master of Soresu ... ( said by Mace Windu ) and we know Form 3 is ideal in fighting multiple enemies ( and this is a multiple fight ) .

And that guy hwo said that isn't George Lucas is he , it might be just his opinion .

Like if they filmed me ( i work in a travel agency ) and i say , Canada is the best town to go to , would that mean anything ?

So i still stand my point, it is very clearly that Anakin bested Dooku ( undoubtedly that is , as Yoda would say ) and Kenobi according to the Starwars site stalemated Anakin, and bested him after Anakin jumped ,

( Kenobi did a mou kei strike which Anakin failed to block also did he leave himself open during the jump ) .

Anyways the jump that Anakin did , and the fact Kenobi could slice him up is enough evidence that Anakin failed against Kenobi in general .

anakin could of just force pushed Kenobi / find another spot to go of the droid , jump before Kenobi instead of behind him ...

@shootingnova:

All the facts you give about Anakin being faster, having better feats than Kenobi and stuff is almost all before the Kenobi / Anakin fight ,

And on Starwars . com it sais they are equally matched during the Mustafar fight.

So my point that Kenobi got alot better after the invisible hand fight has been proven .

@jantjepeter: The fact that you quoted Wookiepedia...............................*facepalm*

@okayalright_44:

That's just extra, i was gonna add the fact that it's not to be taken seriously but it made sence so i quoted it from them , the quote that i use for grounding my opinion is from Starwars.com anyways , the first 2 are just things that make sence but not to be taken seriously .

@jantjepeter: It doesn't really matter since you quoted a wookiepedia article as if it was a canonical source, but it is not all. Like Nova said both Anakin and Dooku(under normal conditions/no PIS) are; faster, stronger, and telekinetically more powerful. And per feats, statements and showings, especially against Obi-wan, are more skilled as lightsaber duelist.

You have yet to substantiate/prove that Obi-wan became more skilled or more powerful during the Revenge of the Sith period when he was behind both Anakin and Dooku during that time, in those aforementioned areas of skill, power,strength and speed. Show me Kenobi's feats that Rival Anakin before his fight on Mustafar? And if you need me to list Anakin's feats that elucidate the fact that Anakin is superior to Obi-wan; I'd be more than happy to provide them

Goes the same way as the movies. Anakin beats Dooku, Obi-Wan beats Anakin. Unless Anakin goes straight for Obi-Wan, then Dooku has a chance of beating either once they're tired.