Count Dooku vs Luke Skywalker

• This early NR era Luke (up to 5ASW4) and RotS Dooku.
• Standard equipment for both.
• Regular morals and mindsets apply.
• Random encounter. No prep or knowledge of the other.
• Victory by death or KO.
• Combatants begin twenty meters apart.
• Battle takes place on the Invisible Hand.

How come you're not using the ABY timeline format, Silver? Just curious.

I think Luke might be able to do it, but it'll be tough.

How come you're not using the ABY timeline format, Silver? Just curious.

I think Luke might be able to do it, but it'll be tough.

@Silver2467 said:

Eh, same difference. I just developed the habit of using ASW4 because the timelines in novels describe it that way. It can be done by the BBY/ABY abbreviation though.

I'm just accustomed to it, that's all. I'm not used to the ASW4 format. I guess I like BBY/ABY because it has some in-universe relevance (which is why I loved Jedi vs Sith: the Essential Guide to the Force)

@Silver2467 said:

Personally, I have no idea which is more skilled and which is more powerful. I also have no idea whether Luke's Djem So would alter the outcome or not. It should be close.

I think he can hold his own in a duel. I'm just wondering how he'll hold up against Dooku's Force abilities.

Honestly the only reason I think Dooku lost to anakin was due to PIS, I bet he was toying with him the entire time I think a blood lusted dooku can win this.

I'm just accustomed to it, that's all. I'm not used to the ASW4 format. I guess I like BBY/ABY because it has some in-universe relevance (which is why I loved Jedi vs Sith: the Essential Guide to the Force)

I think he can hold his own in a duel. I'm just wondering how he'll hold up against Dooku's Force abilities.

Honestly the only reason I think Dooku lost to anakin was due to PIS, I bet he was toying with him the entire time I think a blood lusted dooku can win this.

• Regular morals and mindsets apply.

@Silver2467 said:

@JediXMan: How much of a majority would you attribute Luke with winning?

Eh... I'll say 6/10. It's really close.

This battle is one of the closest ones.

Luke Skywalker's Djem So, I suppose, gives him an advantage over Makashi. That is not to say though, that Luke gets a massive advantage.

We have to consider Force Powers as well. Basically, Luke has his lightsaber, I do not know whether it will be enough to stop the Count's lightning. He still has Force Deflection, and has used it (though unsuccessfully) against Palpatine, who's lightning is much more powerful than Dooku's. I'm not really sure if Luke can avoid being flung aside, Sora Bulq, Savage Opress, Asajj Ventress have been Dooku and has defeated Obi-Wan and Quilan Voss through superior use of the Force. Luke does not have Anakin's strength by this point yet, I believe, so his advantage over Dooku and Djem So's actual advantage over Makashi is more limited. Telekinesis, well, I can't really think of the actual winner, both have shown considerable skill. But I think Dooku has a minor advantage due to experience of fighting and training for longer than Luke has. I'll say Luke takes it for now, I don't know whether he will get through the Count's Dun Moch, but seeing as it has backfired twice already, I don't know if that should be considered as an advantage for Dooku. Luke has resisted Dun Moch fairly well...

@Silver2467:

That's debatable. While Anakin may never have reached his potential as Vader, in my opinion Vader is stronger than Anakin. Slower? Of course, but more skilled and possibly more powerful than he was. Honestly, I would say that Luke in VI surpassed Anakin. At that point he became what his father never was, and eventually became what his father could have become (maybe).

It's worth mentioning that Luke, for the most part, was bent on turning Vader and tried not to kill him throughout most of their duel until the final portion. He won't have the same problems. It's also quite possible that Obi-Wan could have told him about Dooku (hey, if they can say that Yoda talked to Luke about the Ones and the "Throne of Balance" as you said it was retconned he did, I can say Obi-Wan talked about his old pal Dooku).

I'm going with Luke Skywalker.

@terry2012 said:

I'm going with Luke Skywalker.

this

@Silver2467:

That's debatable. While Anakin may never have reached his potential as Vader, in my opinion Vader is stronger than Anakin. Slower? Of course, but more skilled and possibly more powerful than he was. Honestly, I would say that Luke in VI surpassed Anakin. At that point he became what his father never was, and eventually became what his father could have become (maybe).

It's worth mentioning that Luke, for the most part, was bent on turning Vader and tried not to kill him throughout most of their duel until the final portion. He won't have the same problems. It's also quite possible that Obi-Wan could have told him about Dooku (hey, if they can say that Yoda talked to Luke about the Ones and the "Throne of Balance" as you said it was retconned he did, I can say Obi-Wan talked about his old pal Dooku).

Too close to call one way or the other. Dooku has a slight advantage as a duelist over Luke at this point. But the matchup is intriguing for several reasons

Makashi vs Djem So- The debate continues. I tend to think that Anakin's style of Djem So is more physically imposing than Luke's. Dooku himself states that Anakin's sheer physical power is astonishing. That physicality, combined with Anakin's massive Force reserves fueling his stamina gave him an edge over Dooku, who isn't really in his prime physically, and had to spend his Force reserves on defending himself.

Luke isn't quite at Anakin's level of physicality. He still has an advantage over Dooku in endurance, but Dooku has dueling experience on his side. It's a wash IMO

Luke and Dooku both have similar showings of telekinetic power, although said showings are in far different areas. I give Luke the edge in raw power, but Dooku is a powerful Force user in his own right, and possesses an edge in skill.

They split a series of duels 5-5 IMO

Both are too similar in ability at this stage in Luke journeys as a Jedi.

This battle is one of the closest ones.

Luke Skywalker's Djem So, I suppose, gives him an advantage over Makashi. That is not to say though, that Luke gets a massive advantage.

We have to consider Force Powers as well. Basically, Luke has his lightsaber, I do not know whether it will be enough to stop the Count's lightning. He still has Force Deflection, and has used it (though unsuccessfully) against Palpatine, who's lightning is much more powerful than Dooku's. I'm not really sure if Luke can avoid being flung aside, Sora Bulq, Savage Opress, Asajj Ventress have been Dooku and has defeated Obi-Wan and Quilan Voss through superior use of the Force. Luke does not have Anakin's strength by this point yet, I believe, so his advantage over Dooku and Djem So's actual advantage over Makashi is more limited. Telekinesis, well, I can't really think of the actual winner, both have shown considerable skill. But I think Dooku has a minor advantage due to experience of fighting and training for longer than Luke has. I'll say Luke takes it for now, I don't know whether he will get through the Count's Dun Moch, but seeing as it has backfired twice already, I don't know if that should be considered as an advantage for Dooku. Luke has resisted Dun Moch fairly well...

@Silver2467: No problem... Do you have any idea as to the victor?

This is too close to call for me.

@Silver2467: Ah, I see....

I don't see a problem: Luke defeated Vader, and Vader defeated Dooku so... You know what I mean. But from all duelists in SW universe my favorite is Dooku - I prefer classical fencing over jumping around, kung-fu fencing, and Doooku's style is clearly inspired by classical art of fencing - elegant, effective and deadly.

Count Dooku cant even beat Han Solo if they fought. I gotta take a count dooku

@Silver2467 said:

@CreamPieMe said:

Count Dooku cant even beat Han Solo if they fought. I gotta take a count dooku

He was either joking or not. If the latter, than yes, he is HORRIBLY wrong because Dooku never fought Solo, and could easily own him with the Force.

@Picard said:

I don't see a problem: Luke defeated Vader, and Vader defeated Dooku so... You know what I mean. But from all duelists in SW universe my favorite is Dooku - I prefer classical fencing over jumping around, kung-fu fencing, and Doooku's style is clearly inspired by classical art of fencing - elegant, effective and deadly.

Luke defeated a Vader that wasn't raging and was not sustained by rage, while it was a raging Anakin that defeated Dooku.

Luke never conclusively beat Vader in a duel by his standard power. He had to draw on the dark side to defeat him, a tactic he would not employ against Dooku. Without that, several sources have made it clear that Luke and Vader were perfect equals in a duel.

The fight this time was far more balanced. Vader discovered that Luke was his match, and, once again, the Sith Lord found his thoughts straying to an alliance between them against the Emperor.

Luke had indeed grown powerful since Bespin, and he was an equal match for his father.

Apologies in advance for any facts I may have misconstrued. So this bout is basically RoTJ Luke vs RotS Dooku?

From the way I see it, I don't think Luke had the swordsmanship skills that Anakin had when he defeated Dooku and even then, he was still physically over-powering him. I can see that playing out similarly with Luke due to him having potentially far more raw power than Dooku and utilizing it brutally. Dooku on the other hand is far more controlled and skilled in utilizing both his saber and the various powers of the dark side, especially force lightning. The only problem being is that if he resorted to using lightning, would Luke be able to deflect it or absorb it into his saber? He was resisting Palapatine's lightning as best he could and his is evidently far more powerful than Dooku's.

I'd say Luke would edge out the win due to raw power and physicality.

this bout is basically RoTJ Luke

• This early NR era Luke (up to 5ASW4)

@Silver2467: Apologies, wasn't too familiar with the ASW4 format.

Two words: lightning justice four more words: get Dooku a diaper

@Deranged Midget said:

@Silver2467: Apologies, wasn't too familiar with the ASW4 format.

ASW4 is something I don't use a lot either, it basically means 4 ABY, which is EP6, Return of the Jedi.

ASW4 is something I don't use a lot either, it basically means 4 ABY, which is EP6, Return of the Jedi.

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

ASW4 is something I don't use a lot either, it basically means 4 ABY, which is EP6, Return of the Jedi.

No it doesn't. ASW4 means "After Star Wars Episode 4." If I say "5ASW4," that means "5 years After Star Wars Episode 4."

I know what it stands for, I meant that the equivalent time to it would be 4 ABY.

@Silver2467: Thanks for clarifying.

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

ASW4 is something I don't use a lot either, it basically means 4 ABY, which is EP6, Return of the Jedi.

No it doesn't. ASW4 means "After Star Wars Episode 4." If I say "5ASW4," that means "5 years After Star Wars Episode 4."

I know what it stands for, I meant that the equivalent time to it would be 4 ABY.

@CreamPieMe said:

\@Sci_Fi_Rulez said:

@CreamPieMe said:

COUNT DOOKU'S HEAD IS GOING UP SOMEONES A$$

Umm yeah not trying to be rude,but that's getting old..

pardon me i dont believe i was talking to you. please in the future be sure to mind your business

You made a general comment. That means it's ripe for the picking for anybody that wants to.

... actually, forget that. You make a comment, anybody can reply to it, so...

@ShootingNova said:

@Picard said:

I don't see a problem: Luke defeated Vader, and Vader defeated Dooku so... You know what I mean. But from all duelists in SW universe my favorite is Dooku - I prefer classical fencing over jumping around, kung-fu fencing, and Doooku's style is clearly inspired by classical art of fencing - elegant, effective and deadly.

Luke defeated a Vader that wasn't raging and was not sustained by rage, while it was a raging Anakin that defeated Dooku.

Frankly, I never undesrtood this about Star Wars - I can understand that raging can be useful when you use the Force, for example when you shoot lightning etc. but not in a sword fight when you have to be conscious of every move you make. Being angry will only make you less conscious, in anger you don't think, you make foolish mistakes and your opponent can use this against you

Another questionable issue: How does speed between Luke and Dooku compare? Luke had the speed feats in the Rebellion era that place him roughly equal with Obi-Wan at his peak in speed, but Dooku was slightly faster than Obi-Wan. Luke did appear to be faster in 5ASW4 than he was in the Rebellion era, but would that level their respective speed?

I haven’t paid much attention to pre-NJO!Luke.

Furthermore, I think we should carefully bracket the discussion of Djem So vs. Makashi; raw power in and of itself is not enough to overwhelm the Count, as we see in his performance against Windu, Grievous, and Yoda—each of whom displays superhuman strength at various points.

I submit that it is Anakin’s application of Djem So that is problematic for the Count due to a combination of his prodigious physical strength and unparalleled Force reserves.

That’s what I was alluding to: it’s not that any Djem So user could overwhelm a Makashi user, let alone one of Dooku’s caliber, it’s that the user in question was extraordinary in every possible way. I have no trouble imagining that Dooku would make mincemeat of most duelists, regardless of form or strength.

All I remember from Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor is that Luke can deflect blasterfire barehanded and crush the stocks of military-grade blasters.

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

ASW4 is something I don't use a lot either, it basically means 4 ABY, which is EP6, Return of the Jedi.

No it doesn't. ASW4 means "After Star Wars Episode 4." If I say "5ASW4," that means "5 years After Star Wars Episode 4."

I know what it stands for, I meant that the equivalent time to it would be 4 ABY.

No, the equivalent would be 5ABY.

What? Damn I misread the OP....

@Picard said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Picard said:

I don't see a problem: Luke defeated Vader, and Vader defeated Dooku so... You know what I mean. But from all duelists in SW universe my favorite is Dooku - I prefer classical fencing over jumping around, kung-fu fencing, and Doooku's style is clearly inspired by classical art of fencing - elegant, effective and deadly.

Luke defeated a Vader that wasn't raging and was not sustained by rage, while it was a raging Anakin that defeated Dooku.

Frankly, I never undesrtood this about Star Wars - I can understand that raging can be useful when you use the Force, for example when you shoot lightning etc. but not in a sword fight when you have to be conscious of every move you make. Being angry will only make you less conscious, in anger you don't think, you make foolish mistakes and your opponent can use this against you

You can use the rage and harness it to bolster your physical attributes as well. Yes, you can get foolish, but at times your rage can heighten your senses. Basically, you use your rage to tap into the Force.... If you can't understand I'll try and explain better.