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#101 Posted by lol (2556 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol: no, i meant that is a very deciding factor

Wow i think you clear Lucifer and Michael solos can stomp LT but now Spectre too....

#102 Posted by uchiha454 (1802 posts) - - Show Bio

Im pretty sure spectre can at the very least stalemate living tribunal their powers are virtually equal am I missing something in the terms of their feats if so what are they

#103 Posted by lol (2556 posts) - - Show Bio

Im pretty sure spectre can at the very least stalemate living tribunal their powers are virtually equal am I missing something in the terms of their feats if so what are they

Reasons like this is why comic vine is also named troll home

#104 Posted by green_skaar (4104 posts) - - Show Bio

No clue, but enjoyed reading this thread!

#105 Edited by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins, Spectre can match LT and CA Superman is just uber godly i his own right...

#106 Edited by JwwProd (7110 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: I'm sorry but Spectre can not match Living Tribunal.

#107 Edited by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod: I disagree sir, he can. More or less the same kind of character and Spectre at times has been one with the Presence nearly. He can take LT.

#108 Posted by RetconCrisis (3249 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: Add on Cosmic Armor Superman, who is basically Thought Robot, and that should give the Team the win.

#109 Posted by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: Add on Cosmic Armor Superman, who is basically Thought Robot, and that should give the Team the win.

Exactly!

#110 Edited by JwwProd (7110 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: What exactly are those scans supposed to prove?

I guess I will just show the scan of Living Tribunal dwarfing two megaversal beings or I will just get @killemall or @rolldestroyer to join :)

#111 Edited by homicidalmaniac (5326 posts) - - Show Bio

@retconcrisis said:

@vaeternus: Add on Cosmic Armor Superman, who is basically Thought Robot, and that should give the Team the win.

Not really,Spectre and Thought Robot together can't beat TL

#112 Edited by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod: They prove how powerful Spectre is and CAN be, that's what. He was practically one with the Presence. Presence=God

Presence/God Spectre>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LT

There's more like Spectre preventing two universes from collapsing. LT is more or less Marvel's version of Spectre without the RAGE part...

Why ask for others users? This tells me you have no counterargument or you'd rather have others argue for you? I mean I know all the Spectre fanatics too so don't know what that proves exactly. @sithlantern93 I can call too being the site's most knowledgable Spectre follower....

@homicidalmaniac: Yes really. Thought Robot is a universal threat, as is Spectre. LT will be overpowered. Spectre when written right is one of DCU's most powerful beings much like LT is to Marvel.

Bump. And supes is being way too downplayed here

Agreed. Cosmic Armor is no joke combinbed with full scale Spectre? pfftt

#113 Posted by homicidalmaniac (5326 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus:

Yeah they could. Thought Robot is a universal threat, as is Spectre. LT will be overpowered.

Cosmic Cube beings are Universe+ and Infinity Gauntlet users are Multiverse.Both are weaker than Living Tribunal.

#114 Posted by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

homicidalmaniac: There's no evidence that suggests full powered Spectre and CA Superman are weaker then LT. CA can do anything virtually and take on multiple versions of DC and Marvels powerful characters under TOAA. And Spectre again if you read the scan was one with God in that arch therefore Spectre>>>>LT

#115 Edited by SithLantern93 (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod: In that scan, LT also mentions his ''hooded spectral ally'' helping him create those ''two megarversal'' beings.

Great another Specter vs Living Tribunal battle thread -_-. I am going to be frank here. While the majority on this site agree that LT is superior to Spectre, in which I kinda agree, given the fact that Spectre suffered from many inconsistencies and PIS and also the power levels changed depending on both the willpower and the experience of the host, but I do believe that Spectre can match if not defeat Living Tribunal if he is given the full potential of his power. Hal Jordan was capable of accessing the Logoz and as the scans show, displaying feats that Corrigan and Allen can only dream. Hell even without the full potential of the Logoz, Spectre displayed many great feats despite PIS and inconsistency. He was capable of depowering Mxyzptlk (who can obliterate all reality, space and time if he wants to), was capable of defeating Anti Monitor (who without the amp that infinite universes provide, was capable of stalemating the Monitor, who was powerful as all the infinite positive matter universes), arguably defeated Zero Hour Parallax (who had the power to recreate most of Pre Crisis DCU and one shotted Time Trapper in his own realm) and gave the freaking Michael Demiurgos a good battle!

#116 Edited by Arkhamc1tizen (2100 posts) - - Show Bio

LT wins hands down.

Online
#117 Posted by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithlantern93: I agree. I really believe this site has WAY more marvel fans then DC honestly. And by that I mean people who don't read DC, in one of the other threads mxy topic someone said "he's just a smalltime reality warper that gets beat by Joker" or something...obviously statements like that make me take these "LT owns Spectre bad" etc with a grain of salt lol.

I agree, Spectre sadly has been written badly by some writers but clearly at his most powerful he was nearly one with Presence so he can definitely take out LT. The Spectre vs. Mxy feat is also good too.

#118 Posted by JwwProd (7110 posts) - - Show Bio

After reading the comments on this thread and the comments on the other Living Tribunal threads............... I can see why Living Tribunal was banned from the battle forums -_-

#119 Edited by JwwProd (7110 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus said:

@sithlantern93: I agree. I really believe this site has WAY more marvel fans then DC honestly. And by that I mean people who don't read DC, in one of the other threads mxy topic someone said "he's just a smalltime reality warper that gets beat by Joker" or something...obviously statements like that make me take these "LT owns Spectre bad" etc with a grain of salt lol.

I agree, Spectre sadly has been written badly by some writers but clearly at his most powerful he was nearly one with Presence so he can definitely take out LT. The Spectre vs. Mxy feat is also good too.

I'm actually more a DC fan then a Marvel fan to be honest (though I love both) and I actually like Spectre more then Living Tribunal and even I agree with people saying Living Tribunal would beat Spectre.

Reason? better feats!

#120 Posted by uchiha454 (1802 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol said:
@uchiha454 said:

Im pretty sure spectre can at the very least stalemate living tribunal their powers are virtually equal am I missing something in the terms of their feats if so what are they

Reasons like this is why comic vine is also named troll home

Doesn't everyone say Spectre is the DC counterpart to LT?

#121 Edited by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod: I don't want you to think that was directed at you per-se, just a general statement I mean every Thor, Hulk and LT topic people just seem to go there in drones and insist they beat everyone...it's really ridiculous of late so I try to avoid those now.

But I'll respectfully disagree, Spectre has tons of impressive feats himself when he's not written poorly. The Golden Age Spectre no doubt would lose, he was far weaker then PC Spectre and current(who's fight with Phantom Stranger nearly destroyed the universe so before Presence/God stepped in to say "guys cut it out or else......yeah) I will say if it were Spectre vs. LT, stalemate. The fact that CA Supes is here imo gives the team a slight edge imo.

Cheers.

#122 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio
@jwwprod said:

@vaeternus: What exactly are those scans supposed to prove?

I guess I will just show the scan of Living Tribunal dwarfing two megaversal beings or I will just get @killemall or @rolldestroyer to join :)


Well like i have said few times earlier, let alone LT, i see Eternity as Superior to Spectre. I frankly see no reason to change my view.

Although i am entire unsure why i am to be impressed with Spectre from what has been posted, the best feat seem to be him merged with the source saying same stuffs we know is true for Eternity.

Honest if anyone is interested lets trade feat, Eternity had just as good if not better feats.

#123 Edited by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: hi there. Youre the guy that reads just marvel or dc too?

I think spectre gets watered down at times which i hate. Look at his DOV fests, him becoming nearly one with presence via the source i think when hes not messing around. But the version that nekron beat pffttt

I like n52 one so far. Hes a beast.

#124 Posted by mikep12 (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people keep saying LT is omniversal when that doesn't even exist. Even if it did that would mean he'd be aware of all the multiversal threats dc has and stop them. Also will people stop using marvel logic for dc characters. Also once again why do dc characters need any megaversal feats I'm sure if dc had megaverses that there abstracts would be more powerful cause they'd have more to protect the presence limits them by what they protect. How is it even fair if dc characters can never display such feats

#125 Edited by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: Yes and normally more marvel than DC. I have nothing against Spectre, he is powerful, but people normally under-estimate how powerful Eternity is. We have seen Eternity re-create the whole multiverse without really having to restrain himself, when plot allowed Dormammu to steal his power Dormammu did the same thing , remade everyone in all universes in his image. He became everyone and everything. We have seen cosmic cube being , causing trans-multiversal damage, hold entire universe in their hand and nearly crush it, and yet outright admit there arent up there with Eternity.

I think people often dont see how powerful Eternity is, Spectre is awesome and yes i have read DOV and most of Spectre volumes post crisis (havent read anything on Spectre pre crisis) but i find it very hard to think he has demonstrated anything beyond being able to casually re-create the whole multiverse.

#126 Edited by Bronze_Surfer (2856 posts) - - Show Bio

@mikep12: They can. They used to have a multiverse = to marvel until COIE. And marvel says they have their own omniverse so ya.

As for the fight itself...I will say LT unless spectre can acsess the full power of the Logoz but even then it might not be enough. As for Thought Robot. I say what I say about him on all threads. He is a peice of cosmic tin. Multiversal sure but only for dc 52 universes

#127 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod: Im honestly actually a bit tired of this topic. If you want my personal view: LT wins, without a shadow of a doubt (against the spectre only, that is)

And i actually collected many of spectre's appearances, and read many stories to know that Spectre doesn't operate at LT's level. Best thing i recall for the Spectre is that his presence/essence was about to destroy infinite universes (pre crisis multiverse) which was already fragile but even in that same comic series we see him struggling to put 2 earths apart and faint into unconsciousness or something along those lines (apart from other things, in other titles), so point still stands: he doesn't operate at that level consistently.

Ill say this though: Saying that Spectre is LT's equal based on DoV has gotta be one of the worst arguments for the Spectre (not that there is one to begin with).

#128 Edited by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@mikep12: I hear ya, I never even heard of this newer term "Megaverse" what happened to multiversal, now it's Mega. Is Mega like made up term that surpasses Universal and Multiversal by fans? lol I also could have sworn in the crossover something about LT being limited to Marvel's Universe, wouldn't work in DC's and vice versa like Flash not having SF in MU or something. It's been a while. But I do think people overhype LT at times.

@killemall said:

@vaeternus: Yes and normally more marvel than DC. I have nothing against Spectre, he is powerful, but people normally under-estimate how powerful Eternity is. We have seen Eternity re-create the whole multiverse without really having to restrain himself, when plot allowed Dormammu to steal his power Dormammu did the same thing , remade everyone in all universes in his image. He became everyone and everything. We have seen cosmic cube being , causing trans-multiversal damage, hold entire universe in their hand and nearly crush it, and yet outright admit there arent up there with Eternity.

I think people often dont see how powerful Eternity is, Spectre is awesome and yes i have read DOV and most of Spectre volumes post crisis (havent read anything on Spectre pre crisis) but i find it very hard to think he has demonstrated anything beyond being able to casually re-create the whole multiverse.

From what I gather from Spectre bios, feats and LT they seem very similar. This Eternity you speak of however, I'm not that familiar with but I think I remember someone in another topic saying Thanos beat him or something? I don't know how true this is since a lot of Thanos feats tend to have power gimmicks/amps etc HOTU, IG etc when people go on about that. One thing I noticed, Marvel seems to have way more abstracts then DC which makes it more complex imo to break down. DC doesn't have as many but the few they have are really powerful AM, Spectre, Nekron etc Marvel just has like 20 of them if not more lol I lost count you know. I noticed New 52 are adding more like Oracle for example who seems like Galactus but perhaps more powerful as he doesn't need to eat planets. He just watches....

So what is LT's job exactly again if Eternity recreates the Marvel Universe. One thing that always bugged me about Marvel is that whole "stealing power" gig I mean Dr. Doom taking Beyonders(a guy that's supposedly omnipotent) then loses to Squirrel girl lol. Dormammu taking Eternity's powers? So when Dormammu did this, does that include TOAA?

I think New 52 has the power to do so, only because the fight with PS Presence had to show up said they were threatening the DCU Multiverse...I have the issue, awesome issue I must say. Spectre is coming again soon next Constantine ;) so hopefully we'll see more of what he can do. So far a lot of New 52 versions have been way more powerful then before, take Darkseid for example, DD seems beastly. WW is a god, Supes is no slouch etc. I'd love to see Spectre get his own series honestly.

roll, if that post is directed at me that's not what I said. Obviously DOV Spectre was awesome but he beat people below him ultimately. I'm saying if anything the presence/source merge proves he can be that powerful and if anything New 52 Spectre seems far more powerful his fight with PS put the DC Multiverse at risk til Presence/Voice/God Showed up..

#129 Posted by mikep12 (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: agreed and it all really depends on what the presences said from what I know specter failed the presence so he took some of his powers presence could make specter omnipotent like he did ellan bulloc and I believe megaverse is real just not omniverse

#130 Posted by mikep12 (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: marvel can't have an omniverse unless you consider the fact that disney owns marvel there for we can assume that disney franchise like star wars, Mickey mouse etc exist which kind of makes LT sound like a joke sitting around protecting the omniverse then alk a suden disney junior comes on and he just sits there watching it

Just trolling or am I

#131 Posted by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@mikep12: Right, so megaverse is another term omniverse? lol Interesting.

I hear ya. If Spectre had Presence's blessing, he could take on anyone.

#132 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2856 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: from what I gathered Megaversal is just multiple multiverses. see marvel has levels of infinity so one charecter can have infinte power and still be dwarfed by another. similar each multiverse has an infinte amount of universes and there can be many of them. Originaly the New Universes was it's own Multiverses, or Malibu Multiverse. They were still in the marvel Megaverse but each had their own multiverse. As for the dealio with Eternity, Thanos beat him with both IG and HOTU. With IG there was a fight that was causing chaos throughout the Universes and eventualy Thanos becaame the new Eternity. With HOTU he just said begone and eternity turned into dust. LT job is the "judge of the multiverse." He only gets in when big mystical imbalences ocur. So even big events like Thanos geting IG and attacking abstracts, Chaos King eating Marvel Multiverse ect. He only gets in on things when he wants to. But Dormammu did steal Eternitys powers (long story, mystical imbalence) and remade the whole multiverse. But no it did not affact TOAA. TOAA is the writer so he is above everyone in marvel and DC (well maybe equal to primal monitor). So TOAA is the one who makes the stories. Finally did DC give back it's infinte Multiverse? I mean Spectres fight being a threat is a big deal if it is infinte but if it's only 52 universes its only meh.

#133 Edited by Bronze_Surfer (2856 posts) - - Show Bio

@mikep12: I...you know I never thought of it that way. But marvel uses the term Omniverses when they should use Megaverse

#134 Posted by mikep12 (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: except for the forces who created the presence who are the writers on tablet so I can't post scans but I'm pretty sure if you look dc comics presence you will see pics of presence saying he was formed by outside forces who are the writers and this is what I mean by unfair dc characters can only show multiversal feats thanks to dc only having 52 universes to me this is fine though cause after reading everything you justed posted dc seems to be way more organized than marvel and can have better stories this way

#135 Posted by mikep12 (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: exactly also you seem pretty cool I think I'll follow

#136 Edited by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: ok only thing id disagree with is the multiversal assumption. I mehaven't seen every UniversE yet in DC.

Toaa covers mu not dc. Dc presence is god so pretty as far as im concerned theyre equal.

Presence over dc

Toaa marvel.

I think dcu new 52 needs more fleshed out in time. Weve already seem rebooted characters more beastly like spectre in new 52 and ds for example is a beast. Casual planet buster.

#137 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: Thanos beat Eternity during Infinity Gauntlet story arc, where he had the Infinity Gauntlet, which of course allows you to access the power of One Before All, whose energy created every abstract. That wasnt a fight Eternity could win, nor should that take away how powerful Eternity is.

Heck Galactus, Odin and Thanos are said to be nothing more than mere insects against Eternity, random encounter they dont even come close.

which reminds me of infinity gauntlet were Galactus, Stranger, In Betweener, Celestials, and minor abstract were called Eternity foot soldiers, that difference in power level between Thanos and Eternity is as gigantic as it gets.

As per Marvel having a lot of abstract level beings, only 4 are prime abstract who are scary powerful but dont often engage in fights, that would be Eternity, Infinity, Death and Oblivion. Eternity at the moment is more powerful as Eternity and Infinity have merged changing Eternity from embodiment of time, into embodiment of the whole universe.

If Eternity can re-create the multiverse what does LT do, he is the cosmic judge, he is like his manager. Eternity answers to LT thats his job and to decide where to interfere and where not. When they both started, Eternity was actually more of a peer to LT but then marvel had the huge shift in LT power level now he drawfs Eternity.

The rest about stealing omnipotents power, thats just how marvel work, i dislike and think its weird but not much i can do against it.

#138 Edited by Bronze_Surfer (2856 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: Sure we have not. however we do know that after COIE it was reduced downn to one, than back to infite, than back to one and then to 52. Hell 3 worlds combined meaning there is only 50 universes. So DC could say oh no there is infinte which is fine but so far they have not.

And yes TOAA only covers marvel since he is marvel writers. But Presence is god but he is a charecter. He was also shaped by outside forces so he can't be all powerful (not to mention GEB technichly stalemating him). So I put him below TOAA on the ground alone

#139 Posted by mikep12 (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: so its kind of like dc logic were two omnipotent beings combine to form an even more powerful being presence and geb. Comic logic what would we do without you but that still not as good as a superman putting on glass and not knowing who he is

#140 Edited by Vaeternus (8286 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze surfer: pretty much i consider every series or universe to have a god/omnipotent one which is presence in dc and toaa in marvel. Ive read that supposedly stan lee is toaa/god of marvel lol. Not sure if thats jokes or not though.

That was also pre 52 so i do Abel eve he is all powerful as hes said to be god in new 52 literally who admitted he shaped everything in phantom stranger series. So id say presence and toaa are equal. Same could be said about pre ret beyonder whos power was on par with toaa.

On the universe gig was never a fan of infinite or multiple universes. Maybe 20 max but after a while gets little confusing honestly.

@killemall: ah I see lol very insightful. Thanks for breaking that down with abstracts etc. I thought galactus was one too? Guess not :/ lol

That reminded me of silver age dc when supes broke the space and time barriers and spectre had to stop him judge him from preventing going further in a way lol.

An old arch via the silver age.

P

#141 Edited by Rijehu (351 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre is close to LT in power, but not equal. Superman is kind of a non factor here. Spectre can put up a great fight against LT and if he utilizes his unbound power, and doesn't jobb, he can actually win, but LT takes it most likely. Not easy at all though.

#142 Edited by lol (2556 posts) - - Show Bio

@uchiha454 said:

@lol said:
@uchiha454 said:

Im pretty sure spectre can at the very least stalemate living tribunal their powers are virtually equal am I missing something in the terms of their feats if so what are they

Reasons like this is why comic vine is also named troll home

Doesn't everyone say Spectre is the DC counterpart to LT?

Yes but that not means they are equal in power and i expect you dont buy vaeternus bs he never accept a dc character loses and if you wish know why i call bs pm me

Im thinking im talking with a non-biased person right?

@rijehu said:

Spectre is close to LT in power, but not equal. Superman is kind of a non factor here. Spectre can put up a great fight against LT and if he utilizes his unbound power, and doesn't jobb, he can actually win, but LT takes it most likely. Not easy at all though.

Spectre isnt close to LT in power and CA Sups>Spectre

#143 Edited by Rijehu (351 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol said:

@uchiha454 said:

@lol said:
@uchiha454 said:

Im pretty sure spectre can at the very least stalemate living tribunal their powers are virtually equal am I missing something in the terms of their feats if so what are they

Reasons like this is why comic vine is also named troll home

Doesn't everyone say Spectre is the DC counterpart to LT?

Yes but that not means they are equal in power and i expect you dont buy vaeternus bs he never accept a dc character loses and if you wish know why i call bs pm me

Im thinking im talking with a non-biased person right?

@rijehu said:

Spectre is close to LT in power, but not equal. Superman is kind of a non factor here. Spectre can put up a great fight against LT and if he utilizes his unbound power, and doesn't jobb, he can actually win, but LT takes it most likely. Not easy at all though.

Spectre isnt close to LT in power and CA Sups>Spectre

I feel that he is. I do think Spectre could take on LT, and if it wasn't for PIS, I think he could win. I explained my reasons earlier in my comic vine experience, so I will just post them below lol.

"Honestly, taking out feats, I think the Spectre and LT are meant to be equal in abilities, but not execution. They can both do whatever they want basically, but how much of it they can do is where the difference is. LT wins against Spectre because he has no limitations placed on him by TOAA unlike the Spectre. People need to realize, Spectre does not need backing by TP because he is the embodiment of God's wrath. He is however, constantly depowered or limited by TP because of the sheer power he possesses. I read once that Spectre's wrathful power easily corrupts him and he could go on a rampage that tears apart DC. This could indicate why he is always being contained, whereas LT is not in danger of "losing his marbles" with the power he possesses.

Now, as far as duties, It kind of makes sense since LT is the "Balance-keeping Judge" of the multiverse or Omniverse (correct me if I am wrong) so the LT's power, while granted by TOAA, solely belongs and is controlled by LT. He is designed to be neutral until an event causes him to interact. Because he knows his power, he has no need for a connection with TOAA because his power and him are one in the same. He is nigh-omnipotent with only TOAA as his superior...mostly.

Then you have Spectre, who is my favorite actually. He is designed to pass God's judgment of vengeance on mortals. His task is a bit more narrow then LT's because whereas LT judges all of the verse, Spectre is usually only tasked with mortal affairs. His main power is focused on the judgment of people, who are far less complex than Abstracts and entities. Because he is the embodiment of God's destruction, he can basically destroy whatever and whoever he pleases. which can even extend to abstracts. God's anger is not something to be simply pushed aside. And I'm not getting biblical, God of the DC is who I'm talking about, not God of all creation. But anyway, because of the Spectre's pure wrathful nature and power, he is seemingly always being depowered and humbled by TP as a means to keep him in check. I feel that this is the main difference between him and LT. The Spectre's embodiment by definition, is unstable because he is God's wrath, God's anger. The LT's power is more honed, because he is a balancing force.

So, even though both have similar jobs, they are working for two different companies. Both are nigh omnipotent aspects of their creators. Both have the authority to pass Judgement. However, LT has TOAA who granted LT 100% of his power contract, whereas TP seems to give the Spectre 50% most of the time, and that is me being generous.

An unbound Spectre, with no limitations, would either stalemate LT, or give him a heck of a battle, and possibly beat him, but because of LT's stability and order, and Spectre's PIS inconsistency, he defeats Spectre, who would lose to an ant bite if TP had a say so. The Spectre that fought Michael would definitely shake LT up.

#144 Posted by Rijehu (351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod: In that scan, LT also mentions his ''hooded spectral ally'' helping him create those ''two megarversal'' beings.

Great another Specter vs Living Tribunal battle thread -_-. I am going to be frank here. While the majority on this site agree that LT is superior to Spectre, in which I kinda agree, given the fact that Spectre suffered from many inconsistencies and PIS and also the power levels changed depending on both the willpower and the experience of the host, but I do believe that Spectre can match if not defeat Living Tribunal if he is given the full potential of his power. Hal Jordan was capable of accessing the Logoz and as the scans show, displaying feats that Corrigan and Allen can only dream. Hell even without the full potential of the Logoz, Spectre displayed many great feats despite PIS and inconsistency. He was capable of depowering Mxyzptlk (who can obliterate all reality, space and time if he wants to), was capable of defeating Anti Monitor (who without the amp that infinite universes provide, was capable of stalemating the Monitor, who was powerful as all the infinite positive matter universes), arguably defeated Zero Hour Parallax (who had the power to recreate most of Pre Crisis DCU and one shotted Time Trapper in his own realm) and gave the freaking Michael Demiurgos a good battle!

I sooooooooooo freakin agree

#145 Posted by lol (2556 posts) - - Show Bio

@rijehu said:

@lol said:

@uchiha454 said:

@lol said:
@uchiha454 said:

Im pretty sure spectre can at the very least stalemate living tribunal their powers are virtually equal am I missing something in the terms of their feats if so what are they

Reasons like this is why comic vine is also named troll home

Doesn't everyone say Spectre is the DC counterpart to LT?

Yes but that not means they are equal in power and i expect you dont buy vaeternus bs he never accept a dc character loses and if you wish know why i call bs pm me

Im thinking im talking with a non-biased person right?

@rijehu said:

Spectre is close to LT in power, but not equal. Superman is kind of a non factor here. Spectre can put up a great fight against LT and if he utilizes his unbound power, and doesn't jobb, he can actually win, but LT takes it most likely. Not easy at all though.

Spectre isnt close to LT in power and CA Sups>Spectre

I feel that he is. I do think Spectre could take on LT, and if it wasn't for PIS, I think he could win. I explained my reasons earlier in my comic vine experience, so I will just post them below lol.

"Honestly, taking out feats, I think the Spectre and LT are meant to be equal in abilities, but not execution. They can both do whatever they want basically, but how much of it they can do is where the difference is. LT wins against Spectre because he has no limitations placed on him by TOAA unlike the Spectre. People need to realize, Spectre does not need backing by TP because he is the embodiment of God's wrath. He is however, constantly depowered or limited by TP because of the sheer power he possesses. I read once that Spectre's wrathful power easily corrupts him and he could go on a rampage that tears apart DC. This could indicate why he is always being contained, whereas LT is not in danger of "losing his marbles" with the power he possesses.

Now, as far as duties, It kind of makes sense since LT is the "Balance-keeping Judge" of the multiverse or Omniverse (correct me if I am wrong) so the LT's power, while granted by TOAA, solely belongs and is controlled by LT. He is designed to be neutral until an event causes him to interact. Because he knows his power, he has no need for a connection with TOAA because his power and him are one in the same. He is nigh-omnipotent with only TOAA as his superior...mostly.

Then you have Spectre, who is my favorite actually. He is designed to pass God's judgment of vengeance on mortals. His task is a bit more narrow then LT's because whereas LT judges all of the verse, Spectre is usually only tasked with mortal affairs. His main power is focused on the judgment of people, who are far less complex than Abstracts and entities. Because he is the embodiment of God's destruction, he can basically destroy whatever and whoever he pleases. which can even extend to abstracts. God's anger is not something to be simply pushed aside. And I'm not getting biblical, God of the DC is who I'm talking about, not God of all creation. But anyway, because of the Spectre's pure wrathful nature and power, he is seemingly always being depowered and humbled by TP as a means to keep him in check. I feel that this is the main difference between him and LT. The Spectre's embodiment by definition, is unstable because he is God's wrath, God's anger. The LT's power is more honed, because he is a balancing force.

So, even though both have similar jobs, they are working for two different companies. Both are nigh omnipotent aspects of their creators. Both have the authority to pass Judgement. However, LT has TOAA who granted LT 100% of his power contract, whereas TP seems to give the Spectre 50% most of the time, and that is me being generous.

An unbound Spectre, with no limitations, would either stalemate LT, or give him a heck of a battle, and possibly beat him, but because of LT's stability and order, and Spectre's PIS inconsistency, he defeats Spectre, who would lose to an ant bite if TP had a say so. The Spectre that fought Michael would definitely shake LT up.

1. The Presence isnt omnipotent like TOAA. Primal Monitor is

2. Unbound Spectre isnt his most powerfull form

3. Michael stomp spectre ever

#146 Posted by Rijehu (351 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol said:

@rijehu said:

@lol said:

@uchiha454 said:

@lol said:
@uchiha454 said:

Im pretty sure spectre can at the very least stalemate living tribunal their powers are virtually equal am I missing something in the terms of their feats if so what are they

Reasons like this is why comic vine is also named troll home

Doesn't everyone say Spectre is the DC counterpart to LT?

Yes but that not means they are equal in power and i expect you dont buy vaeternus bs he never accept a dc character loses and if you wish know why i call bs pm me

Im thinking im talking with a non-biased person right?

@rijehu said:

Spectre is close to LT in power, but not equal. Superman is kind of a non factor here. Spectre can put up a great fight against LT and if he utilizes his unbound power, and doesn't jobb, he can actually win, but LT takes it most likely. Not easy at all though.

Spectre isnt close to LT in power and CA Sups>Spectre

I feel that he is. I do think Spectre could take on LT, and if it wasn't for PIS, I think he could win. I explained my reasons earlier in my comic vine experience, so I will just post them below lol.

"Honestly, taking out feats, I think the Spectre and LT are meant to be equal in abilities, but not execution. They can both do whatever they want basically, but how much of it they can do is where the difference is. LT wins against Spectre because he has no limitations placed on him by TOAA unlike the Spectre. People need to realize, Spectre does not need backing by TP because he is the embodiment of God's wrath. He is however, constantly depowered or limited by TP because of the sheer power he possesses. I read once that Spectre's wrathful power easily corrupts him and he could go on a rampage that tears apart DC. This could indicate why he is always being contained, whereas LT is not in danger of "losing his marbles" with the power he possesses.

Now, as far as duties, It kind of makes sense since LT is the "Balance-keeping Judge" of the multiverse or Omniverse (correct me if I am wrong) so the LT's power, while granted by TOAA, solely belongs and is controlled by LT. He is designed to be neutral until an event causes him to interact. Because he knows his power, he has no need for a connection with TOAA because his power and him are one in the same. He is nigh-omnipotent with only TOAA as his superior...mostly.

Then you have Spectre, who is my favorite actually. He is designed to pass God's judgment of vengeance on mortals. His task is a bit more narrow then LT's because whereas LT judges all of the verse, Spectre is usually only tasked with mortal affairs. His main power is focused on the judgment of people, who are far less complex than Abstracts and entities. Because he is the embodiment of God's destruction, he can basically destroy whatever and whoever he pleases. which can even extend to abstracts. God's anger is not something to be simply pushed aside. And I'm not getting biblical, God of the DC is who I'm talking about, not God of all creation. But anyway, because of the Spectre's pure wrathful nature and power, he is seemingly always being depowered and humbled by TP as a means to keep him in check. I feel that this is the main difference between him and LT. The Spectre's embodiment by definition, is unstable because he is God's wrath, God's anger. The LT's power is more honed, because he is a balancing force.

So, even though both have similar jobs, they are working for two different companies. Both are nigh omnipotent aspects of their creators. Both have the authority to pass Judgement. However, LT has TOAA who granted LT 100% of his power contract, whereas TP seems to give the Spectre 50% most of the time, and that is me being generous.

An unbound Spectre, with no limitations, would either stalemate LT, or give him a heck of a battle, and possibly beat him, but because of LT's stability and order, and Spectre's PIS inconsistency, he defeats Spectre, who would lose to an ant bite if TP had a say so. The Spectre that fought Michael would definitely shake LT up.

1. The Presence isnt omnipotent like TOAA. Primal Monitor is

This is constantly a debate. The Presence = TOAA because they both are the Supreme beings of their creation. The Primal Monitor represents the writers, just as TOAA does, but that does not mean TP is any less powerful in the comic verse. Unlike Marvel, DC decided not to reference themselves or constantly make appearances like TOAA did. However, the writers of DC (Monitor) granted the Presence just as much power as TOAA displays in Marvel so as far as I'm concerned, they are still equal, doesn't matter how they became as such. You have a being who represents the writers (TOAA) vs a being who embodies the authority of the writers (TP) in it's universe, from the actual writers themselves (Monitor).

2. Unbound Spectre isnt his most powerfull form

But he had the best feat of taking on Michael, which is why I used him.

3. Michael stomp spectre ever

I mean he is MICHAEL DEMIURGOS, of course he stomps lol

#147 Posted by lol (2556 posts) - - Show Bio

@rijehu said:

@lol said:

@rijehu said:

@lol said:

@uchiha454 said:

@lol said:
@uchiha454 said:

Im pretty sure spectre can at the very least stalemate living tribunal their powers are virtually equal am I missing something in the terms of their feats if so what are they

Reasons like this is why comic vine is also named troll home

Doesn't everyone say Spectre is the DC counterpart to LT?

Yes but that not means they are equal in power and i expect you dont buy vaeternus bs he never accept a dc character loses and if you wish know why i call bs pm me

Im thinking im talking with a non-biased person right?

@rijehu said:

Spectre is close to LT in power, but not equal. Superman is kind of a non factor here. Spectre can put up a great fight against LT and if he utilizes his unbound power, and doesn't jobb, he can actually win, but LT takes it most likely. Not easy at all though.

Spectre isnt close to LT in power and CA Sups>Spectre

I feel that he is. I do think Spectre could take on LT, and if it wasn't for PIS, I think he could win. I explained my reasons earlier in my comic vine experience, so I will just post them below lol.

"Honestly, taking out feats, I think the Spectre and LT are meant to be equal in abilities, but not execution. They can both do whatever they want basically, but how much of it they can do is where the difference is. LT wins against Spectre because he has no limitations placed on him by TOAA unlike the Spectre. People need to realize, Spectre does not need backing by TP because he is the embodiment of God's wrath. He is however, constantly depowered or limited by TP because of the sheer power he possesses. I read once that Spectre's wrathful power easily corrupts him and he could go on a rampage that tears apart DC. This could indicate why he is always being contained, whereas LT is not in danger of "losing his marbles" with the power he possesses.

Now, as far as duties, It kind of makes sense since LT is the "Balance-keeping Judge" of the multiverse or Omniverse (correct me if I am wrong) so the LT's power, while granted by TOAA, solely belongs and is controlled by LT. He is designed to be neutral until an event causes him to interact. Because he knows his power, he has no need for a connection with TOAA because his power and him are one in the same. He is nigh-omnipotent with only TOAA as his superior...mostly.

Then you have Spectre, who is my favorite actually. He is designed to pass God's judgment of vengeance on mortals. His task is a bit more narrow then LT's because whereas LT judges all of the verse, Spectre is usually only tasked with mortal affairs. His main power is focused on the judgment of people, who are far less complex than Abstracts and entities. Because he is the embodiment of God's destruction, he can basically destroy whatever and whoever he pleases. which can even extend to abstracts. God's anger is not something to be simply pushed aside. And I'm not getting biblical, God of the DC is who I'm talking about, not God of all creation. But anyway, because of the Spectre's pure wrathful nature and power, he is seemingly always being depowered and humbled by TP as a means to keep him in check. I feel that this is the main difference between him and LT. The Spectre's embodiment by definition, is unstable because he is God's wrath, God's anger. The LT's power is more honed, because he is a balancing force.

So, even though both have similar jobs, they are working for two different companies. Both are nigh omnipotent aspects of their creators. Both have the authority to pass Judgement. However, LT has TOAA who granted LT 100% of his power contract, whereas TP seems to give the Spectre 50% most of the time, and that is me being generous.

An unbound Spectre, with no limitations, would either stalemate LT, or give him a heck of a battle, and possibly beat him, but because of LT's stability and order, and Spectre's PIS inconsistency, he defeats Spectre, who would lose to an ant bite if TP had a say so. The Spectre that fought Michael would definitely shake LT up.

1. The Presence isnt omnipotent like TOAA. Primal Monitor is

This is constantly a debate. The Presence = TOAA because they both are the Supreme beings of their creation. The Primal Monitor represents the writers, just as TOAA does, but that does not mean TP is any less powerful in the comic verse. Unlike Marvel, DC decided not to reference themselves or constantly make appearances like TOAA did. However, the writers of DC (Monitor) granted the Presence just as much power as TOAA displays in Marvel so as far as I'm concerned, they are still equal, doesn't matter how they became as such. You have a being who represents the writers (TOAA) vs a being who embodies the authority of the writers (TP) in it's universe, from the actual writers themselves (Monitor).

I love how DC and Marvel have many omnipotents and supreme beings TOAA, Beyonder,IB,Primal Monitor, Presence, GEB, Elaine Belloc, Lucifer+Michael=Presence lol

I say cmon guys clear it

2. Unbound Spectre isnt his most powerfull form

But he had the best feat of taking on Michael, which is why I used him.

He still gets stomped so i not see how this spectre alone beat LT

3. Michael stomp spectre ever

I mean he is MICHAEL DEMIURGOS, of course he stomps lol

Man you are overrated MD he is powerfull but not on the level you say

#148 Edited by mikep12 (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

LT has no power in DC he dies

#149 Edited by lol (2556 posts) - - Show Bio

@mikep12 said:

LT has no power in DC he dies

#150 Edited by mikep12 (3350 posts) - - Show Bio