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#51 Posted by dondave (37985 posts) - - Show Bio

LT ftw

#52 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1495 posts) - - Show Bio

Does LT have power in the DC Universe? If not then Spectre and CA Superman should win this.

#53 Edited by Driger (136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: No, phoenix's powers are her own as much as robot's power. Dark phoenix at that time > beyonder. Its obvious for me. may be you don't agree but that doesn't bother me.

#54 Edited by Killemall (18598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Driger said:

@Killemall: No, phoenix's powers are her own as much as robot's power.

Phoenix's power are Phoenix's, as much as Cosmic Armor's powers are Robot's, however the power to kill Beyonder, something she never used because she decides she does NOT kill, was not her, was never her, and there is absolutely no two ways about its. Its akin to saying Thanos with HOTU killed LT alongside every other abstract with ease, therefore Thanos > Phoenix, with or without HOTU.

Phoenix's best feat, takes place in what if, where she destroyed a universe (2 different what ifs and 2 different universes), that is Phoenix Force's best feat nothing more.

Dark phoenix at that time > beyonder.

Because Beyonder himself, gave her the power to destroy her?

She lost that powers when she gave it back to Beyonder, hence thats a point not worth mentioning in a debate thread.

Its obvious for me.

There is nothing obvious about it, and its NOT her powers, ever has been. There is absolutely no two ways about it.

may be you don't agree but that doesn't bother me.

Ok this is what bugs me, why pretend I am the one not listening to argument, when i am the one posting feat and saying what happened. I have not even once stated something that was false or not shown in comics, you however said Phoenix fought and beat Beyonder, which i am certain never happened, because i have the entire Secret Wars 1, 2 , 3 and Spiderman and Secret Wars catalogues.

Also dont even pretend you have an argument and i am not listing to you.

#55 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal should win.

Spectre bloodlusted showings haven't been that impressive, at least from what I've seen.

#56 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12230 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a stomp going on in a stomp thread, it's obvious who's stomping in both areas

#57 Posted by thanosii (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys I am dissappointed on killemals statement of Scathan and Lt. LT>>>> Scathan. 1. Scathans only feat was to disapprove Protege. Protege was poweful but could only imitate a power that he observed in use hence he was able to mimic the power of a mbody of LT. Scathan withheld his power until he was close enough to hold Protege who was then absorbed by LT. 2. The LT he defeated was an mbody=avatar which is >>>> Amalgam brothers who are DC and Marvels Embodiment this is canon as DC continuity recognises the mutant Access and Marvel has on panel shown LT holding the brothers in his palm. Therefore LT greater than DC Multiverse and Marvel together. He is second only to a writer... 4. On panel Thought Robot WAS damaged beyond repair by "The heat of ten billion suns"

#58 Posted by Hyperlight (5933 posts) - - Show Bio

the problem with the spectre is he is pretty much in the same jurisdiction as the LT ( close, but nearly just as important) but hs powers fluctuate where the LT's doesnt. he was given jurisdiction over the MU and thus he is infnitely more powerful than anyone in it. the only exception is the a being who has the HOTU.

Cosmic superman shouldnt be in this fight. cant expect a suped up alien to fight someone like the LT. Thats like assuming a suped up Static can beat Zeus.

Online
#59 Posted by Killemall (18598 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:

Guys I am dissappointed on killemals statement of Scathan and Lt. LT>>>> Scathan. 1. Scathans only feat was to disapprove Protege. Protege was poweful but could only imitate a power that he observed in use hence he was able to mimic the power of a mbody of LT. Scathan withheld his power until he was close enough to hold Protege who was then absorbed by LT.

While i can see where you are coming from, the issues and bios says otherwise.

When the Protege story arc started, it was shown that he can only copy powers once they are demonstrated. He did exactly that to Malestorm, but his powers seem to actually increase throughout the story arc.

Because during GOTG 50, merely seeing LT talk to eternity, Protege manifest's his powers, in the totality. He was, at the least, just as powerful as LT.

The writer gives us the reactions of the LT, Eternity, Scathan and Hawgod.

The LT's conclusion is ... "logical confirmation"

So the LT himself agrees!

Certainly looks like Protege copied all of LTs powers , and bio agrees:

LT's official bio corroborates the entire incident . It clearly mentions that Protege "manifested the Tribunal's own powers" , and it also clearly states that it was Scathan who saved reality :

Furthermore it was not only LT's power he had copied. He had also copied the powers of Eternity, Hawkgods, Mephisto and his daughter, and Beyonder's power and is still defeated because Scanthan Judged against him.

Furthermore, when entire platheora of abstracts, including LT were moving against Protege, Living Tribunal himself says he may need extra powers and was going to absorb from the ancient one. So even with abstracts on his side LT still needed extra powers, certainly shows he was at the very least LT's equal.

Further, supporting facts that LT was likely actually drawing on the amulet of the ancient one

So regardless of how weird it sounds, at least me both on panel evidence and bio seem to agree Protege was at the very least just as powerful as LT, if not above.

Same protege Scanthan defeated.

Furthermore, GOTG 45 LT himself waited till he (Scanthan) arrived, while this is not a hard and fast proof to show Scanthan as above LT but certainly looks like even LT was showing some respect to Scanthan.

More stuffs to support Scanthan might be above LT as the issue and the bio at the end potray.

Here LT addresses him as the approval (his approval i would think)

This is further substantiated by a later even, after LT decides to absorb Protege into himself, they wait for final approval from Scanthan, it looks like Scanthan does have the last say, shows more stature.

Judging by the action and stress Beyonder puts to address a celestial, certainly looks like Scanthan is no ordinary celestial, after all Beyonder has some uber feats like making his own universe, and causing a trans-multiversal destruction as a side effect of his fight with Molecule Man (i am still talking about post recton just to assume you)

First this scan:

followed by this:

In short with all this scan spammage ,sorry got a little carried away =[ , what i am trying to say is Scanthan throughout the issue was written with a lot more respect than a mere celestial, given the respect shown to him throughout the story arc he must have been a bit special then just a celestial, because why else would Eternity or Living Tribual show such respect to Scanthan, wait for his approval, even Beyonder who without a doubt is more powerful than every other celestial we have seen thus far seems totally humbled by Scanthan's presence.

And lastly, the scan and bio, at the end at least, potrays him as being superior to LT, if you can give me a good reason why it should be the other way around i am more than happy to change my mind, and will tilt my hat in respect. As in stand, from what i have read, and gathered, Scathan did appear, rather convincingly to be above Living Tribunal, what i dont know is why or how this happened, but well it happened.

2. The LT he defeated was an mbody=avatar which is <<<<< the full LT All celestials are functional aliens who govern and are <<<< Eternity<<<<< LT.

This is likely true, but at least bio seem to suggest he copied the power of LT as a whole rather than just his M-body. Also LT has pretty much appeared as M-body, a discussion of how powerful LT is, generally comes based on what we have seen. LT in IG saga, LT in Solarith saga, everything has been M-body

#60 Posted by Driger (136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Tell me Is there anybody in marvel who is omniversal excluding toaa, fulcrum, timut.

hotu and beyonder are at most megaversal. so don't include them.

#61 Posted by Killemall (18598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Driger: There are a few who that i know of have operated on an omniversal scale. One would be Wanda (Scarlet Witch) from House of M story arc, where she first tore apart the omniverse and then put it back. We also have Mad James Jasper who was always said to be a threat to entire omniverse but he never actually succeeded. He was stopped.

Cant think anyone else who has operated on that scale.

#62 Posted by logy5000 (5829 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if you could fit 10000000000 suns in a solar system, it wouldn't be a solar system, it'd be a star cluster.

A solar system is based on its contents, not its volume.

#63 Posted by Thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormforever (437 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump. And supes is being way too downplayed here

#64 Posted by Hulkman123 (1706 posts) - - Show Bio

Still LT.

LT vs Lucifer and/or Michael would be a closer matchup.

#65 Posted by thecoolest (268 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal>>>>>Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet>>>>>Several celestials combined(including Galactus and One-Above-all celestial)>Cosmic Armor Supes and the Spectre.

#66 Edited by JwwProd (9672 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal.

#68 Posted by eternityx (2782 posts) - - Show Bio

LT

#69 Edited by Jbourne_32 (1426 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre bloodlusted=LT, I say stalemate.

In DoV an amped cap marvel was able to wear down spectre. LT could erase cap marvel from existence

#70 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4340 posts) - - Show Bio

@jbourne_32: captain marvel was amped by the phantom stranger, gods, dr fate, and others. and even then they stated that it was a surprise attack, and it would not work a second time. and later, spectre was shown to be able to take magic from anywhere, thus no one can defeat him using magic. the thought robot in theory should be more powerful than LT because he still is part of a story, and he almost defeated mandrake who was feeding off all stories, whatever that means.

#71 Edited by dorukesin (6160 posts) - - Show Bio

Thought Robot and Spectre is too much

#72 Posted by Jbourne_32 (1426 posts) - - Show Bio

@jbourne_32: captain marvel was amped by the phantom stranger, gods, dr fate, and others. and even then they stated that it was a surprise attack, and it would not work a second time. and later, spectre was shown to be able to take magic from anywhere, thus no one can defeat him using magic. the thought robot in theory should be more powerful than LT because he still is part of a story, and he almost defeated mandrake who was feeding off all stories, whatever that means.

The infinity gauntlet, an artifact that gave thanos the ability to kill majority of the marvel universe was like a nerf gun to LT. IG Thanos could beat these guys, LT would stomp 'em.

#73 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4340 posts) - - Show Bio

@jbourne_32: though thought robot beat two Allen spectre level beings at the same time, and was feeding on the red stuff, and all the stories. that is pretty powerful. and spectre single handedly used his own power to break all magic in dc down, that is some feat too. the beings too powerful for him, he just absorb their magic, and the magic of the universe until he became powerful enough to one shot them

#74 Edited by lol (5167 posts) - - Show Bio

LT
#75 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4340 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol: Allen spectre IS a joke, but the radiant, a being stronger than him, was helping spectre. so two at the same time IS a pretty good feat, especially he did not even sound tired, nor got any wounds

#76 Posted by lol (5167 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol: Allen spectre IS a joke, but the radiant, a being stronger than him, was helping spectre. so two at the same time IS a pretty good feat, especially he did not even sound tired, nor got any wounds

Radiant more powerful than Spectre. If at least not lose to doomsday.....

#77 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol: Two difrent Radiatnts

#78 Edited by Baron_von_Santa (4340 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol: two radiants actually. one is gods agent of hope, the other is the one that destroyed 1/5 of a planet with a blast. one is a woman, the other is living energy.

#79 Posted by Jeepeh (3907 posts) - - Show Bio

Is spectre above universal? >_>

#80 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh: He could be if he used his powers to their fullest.

#81 Posted by Jeepeh (3907 posts) - - Show Bio
#82 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh: Well he is bloodlusted so sure. However it is still not enoguh to beat LT

#83 Posted by Jeepeh (3907 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: Isn't fullest potential when he is being backed by the Presence? I thought the Presence kind of controlled his power levels.

#84 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh: There is no version of Spectre that is backed by the prescence. The most powerful form is non host spectre. If spectre can be backed by prescence than LT can be backed by TOAA is above prescence

#85 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4340 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: they should tell us where they fight. then spectre could just leach all magic from that place because the unbound spectre's main power seems to be leaching magic, adding it to his own. if LT has got magic in his, then he might be able to leach it, though LT is more cosmic and energy type guy

#86 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@baron_von_santa: LT to my knowledge is mainly a cosmic energy type of guy like most abstracts. However! Since LT, Eternity and other abstracts got their start in Dr. Strange comics they can all use magic. Eternity is all the magic in his singluar universe and LT can use magic but is not made of it. If LT saw that spectre was draing magic I do belive he would just put in end to it.

#87 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@spawn_123 said:

LT is more powerful hi is number 2 in power in marvel universe and number 1 is TOOA

TOAA?

He meant The One Over All. :P

#88 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

no way this thread should even exist can we get a mod here please. @god_spawn this got to go

#89 Posted by lol (5167 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: they should tell us where they fight. then spectre could just leach all magic from that place because the unbound spectre's main power seems to be leaching magic, adding it to his own. if LT has got magic in his, then he might be able to leach it, though LT is more cosmic and energy type guy

So basically you say if LT have magic spectre solos?

#90 Posted by Stompa (1285 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: admit it you are a superhero yourself with the power of super- patience. I would have bitten out a chunk of my computer table already....

#91 Edited by Baron_von_Santa (4340 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol: no, i meant that is a very deciding factor

#92 Posted by eternityx (2782 posts) - - Show Bio

@driger said:

@Killemall: Tell me Is there anybody in marvel who is omniversal excluding toaa, fulcrum, timut.

hotu and beyonder are at most megaversal. so don't include them.

@Driger: There are a few who that i know of have operated on an omniversal scale. One would be Wanda (Scarlet Witch) from House of M story arc, where she first tore apart the omniverse and then put it back. We also have Mad James Jasper who was always said to be a threat to entire omniverse but he never actually succeeded. He was stopped.

Cant think anyone else who has operated on that scale.

How are HoTU and Beyonder only Megaversal if HoM Wanda and MJJ are Omniversal?

#93 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@driger said:

@Killemall: Tell me Is there anybody in marvel who is omniversal excluding toaa, fulcrum, timut.

hotu and beyonder are at most megaversal. so don't include them.

@killemall said:

@Driger: There are a few who that i know of have operated on an omniversal scale. One would be Wanda (Scarlet Witch) from House of M story arc, where she first tore apart the omniverse and then put it back. We also have Mad James Jasper who was always said to be a threat to entire omniverse but he never actually succeeded. He was stopped.

Cant think anyone else who has operated on that scale.

How are HoTU and Beyonder only Megaversal if HoM Wanda and MJJ are Omniversal?

Well Wanda was taking in a source more powerful than the beyonder so there is that (however it was still Inhuman beyonder who is still uber powerful). Honestly I think they should both be omniversal.

#94 Posted by Hulkman123 (1706 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternityx said:

@driger said:

@Killemall: Tell me Is there anybody in marvel who is omniversal excluding toaa, fulcrum, timut.

hotu and beyonder are at most megaversal. so don't include them.

@killemall said:

@Driger: There are a few who that i know of have operated on an omniversal scale. One would be Wanda (Scarlet Witch) from House of M story arc, where she first tore apart the omniverse and then put it back. We also have Mad James Jasper who was always said to be a threat to entire omniverse but he never actually succeeded. He was stopped.

Cant think anyone else who has operated on that scale.

How are HoTU and Beyonder only Megaversal if HoM Wanda and MJJ are Omniversal?

Well Wanda was taking in a source more powerful than the beyonder so there is that (however it was still Inhuman beyonder who is still uber powerful). Honestly I think they should both be omniversal.

More powerful than the PR Beyonder?

And what about HoTU?

#95 Edited by eternityx (2782 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer said:

@eternityx said:

@driger said:

@Killemall: Tell me Is there anybody in marvel who is omniversal excluding toaa, fulcrum, timut.

hotu and beyonder are at most megaversal. so don't include them.

@killemall said:

@Driger: There are a few who that i know of have operated on an omniversal scale. One would be Wanda (Scarlet Witch) from House of M story arc, where she first tore apart the omniverse and then put it back. We also have Mad James Jasper who was always said to be a threat to entire omniverse but he never actually succeeded. He was stopped.

Cant think anyone else who has operated on that scale.

How are HoTU and Beyonder only Megaversal if HoM Wanda and MJJ are Omniversal?

Well Wanda was taking in a source more powerful than the beyonder so there is that (however it was still Inhuman beyonder who is still uber powerful). Honestly I think they should both be omniversal.

More powerful than the PR Beyonder?

And what about HoTU?

I was just about to ask those.

#96 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkman123: @eternityx: Probably not. Inhuman beyonder has some good feats like when Spider Man had his power he remade creation in a billionth of a second and one shoted Galactus. However no feats on PR Beyonders Level. As for HoTU well it was alluded to be a peice of TOAA power so I would put him above all but TOAA and Fulcrum.

#97 Posted by eternityx (2782 posts) - - Show Bio
#98 Posted by lol (5167 posts) - - Show Bio
#99 Posted by Killemall (18598 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: There reason why i didnt mention HOTU and PR Beyonder was because, he asked me not to. Wanda and MJJ are omniversal, because of the use of the term, despite there being very little reason on why they would be more powerful than HOTU of PR Beyonder.

@hulkman123: @eternityx: Probably not. Inhuman beyonder has some good feats like when Spider Man had his power he remade creation in a billionth of a second and one shoted Galactus. However no feats on PR Beyonders Level. As for HoTU well it was alluded to be a peice of TOAA power so I would put him above all but TOAA and Fulcrum.

The feat you mention from Beyonder is from Spiderman: The Secret Wars, which was obviously the secret wars version of the character as opposed to Inhuman or Cosmic Cube. Its just a re-iteration of old story, by saying that happened between the panels.

Same story he defeats Molecule Man by steeping on him, not only was Beyonder defeated by Molecule Man before, Molecule Man was actually dead at the time.

#100 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: So wait i'm confuzuled. If Pre Retcon Beyonder is an omniversal being so there is only one of him how come there can be alternate verisons? Or did they just retcon the whole secret wars?