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#1 Posted by logy5000 (5734 posts) - - Show Bio

Who wins?

#2 Posted by logy5000 (5734 posts) - - Show Bio

Sigh. I knew this wouldn't be a popular topic. Anyway I think CS is stronger, but I think RKT would win.

#3 Posted by karetaker (1565 posts) - - Show Bio

RKT

#4 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (4311 posts) - - Show Bio

wee, that's not a pic of RKT......this is.....

do you know the story????????

#5 Posted by Cbookman123 (98 posts) - - Show Bio

RKT

#6 Edited by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll think about it...

#7 Posted by Referee (7396 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't Composite Superman have all the Leigon of Super Heroes powers?

#8 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

RKT, cuz he's the goddamn Thor.

#9 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackadamFTW said:

Definitely RKT.

Composite Superman is powerful, but he's certainly not on the level of RKT.

#10 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@Referee said:

Doesn't Composite Superman have all the Leigon of Super Heroes powers?

He does that is why i am surprised. Not too sure if Composite Superman is vulnerable to magic but from where i stand i see Composite Superman having more than enough firepowers to take on thor. He's faster, he's stronger (he was twice as strong as SA Superman) and RKT hasnt fought anyone of that level anyways.

#11 Posted by icysloth (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Superman should win, but RKT is more popular so he will won vote wise.

#12 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Referee said:

Doesn't Composite Superman have all the Leigon of Super Heroes powers?

He does that is why i am surprised. Not too sure if Composite Superman is vulnerable to magic but from where i stand i see Composite Superman having more than enough firepowers to take on thor. He's faster, he's stronger (he was twice as strong as SA Superman) and RKT hasnt fought anyone of that level anyways.

King Thor was stopping time with a wave of the hand, apparently able to remove people from existence (if they aren't sporting god-beating plot amulets), and battle it out with the Destroyer possessed by the Designate (Thor Girl, who later helps Thor revert the events of his conquest of Earth - if I recall burning out her Designate powers and prompted the Odin Power leave him of it's own accord). He even one shotted the Desak Destroyer with a Mjolnir toss - King Thor is apparently more powerful, with omniscience taked on. Namely the confidence he displayed to Surtur, suggesting at that point beating him wouldn't require much (if any at all) effort.

Thor's getting a massive boost in power with the Odin Power alone - namely why he can casually brush off the Desgnate's Destroyer blasts or as Rune King Thor restrain Mangog with a single hand effortlessly.

#13 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@icysloth said:

Composite Superman should win, but RKT is more popular so he will won vote wise.

That probably explains it. Because regardless of the hyperbole he doesnt have feats. Granted he beat Magog (well stomped him) who is more than a match for Thor normally, and stomped Loki's army who are featless he has no credible feat so to speak of.

#14 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@icysloth said:

Composite Superman should win, but RKT is more popular so he will won vote wise.

He only existed for a couple of dozen pages; I wouldn't have any clue why he would be more "popular".

#15 Edited by icysloth (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: Because Thor is more popular than Composite Superman, but even as RKT his powerset just isn't enough to take down composite superman. I wouldn't be suprised if people would vote for regular thor against composite superman.

#16 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke said:

King Thor was stopping time with a wave of the hand, apparently able to remove people from existence (if they aren't sporting god-beating plot amulets),

Stopped time? I am assuming you are referring to The Mighty Thor 581, we dont know for how long he can stop time, and he never really erased anyone out of existence its just a sentence he spoutted that he could do so.

and battle it out with the Destroyer possessed by the Designate (Thor Girl, who later helps Thor revert the events of his conquest of Earth - if I recall burning out her Designate powers and prompted the Odin Power leave him of it's own accord).

Well Loki intereferred by attacking Designate and well i dont see how being possessed by Designate makes it any more powerful given the fact that Thor on his own has fought the destroyer possessed by Designate before.

He even one shotted the Desak Destroyer with a Mjolnir toss - King Thor is apparently more powerful, with omniscience taked on. Namely the confidence he displayed to Surtur, suggesting at that point beating him wouldn't require much (if any at all) effort.

He didnt actually one shot Desak there is a whole lot of context involve there though. King thor along with his son fights Desak for 2 issues before 581 (579 and 580) and Desak is later attacked by the Destroyer Armor. So he was weakened before the blow landed on him anyways. Also the previous 2 issues directly contradicts Thor being able to one shot desak anyways.

Namely the confidence he displayed to Surtur, suggesting at that point beating him wouldn't require much (if any at all) effort.

Thor's getting a massive boost in power with the Odin Power alone - namely why he can casually brush off the Desgnate's Destroyer blasts or as Rune King Thor restrain Mangog with a single hand effortlessly.

I am a little confused are you talking about King Thor or Rune King Thor, because King Thor fought Surter for a while and BFRed him because he couldnt have beaten him outright (The Mighty Thor 400), while Rune King Thor (The Mighty Thor 587, or volume 2 85) where despite his big words he doesnt actually fight him at all, he just lets Surfer break through to Asgard to complete Ragnarok because apparently its essential.

Mangog he beat him, but feats by feats Magog isnt even in the same class as Sa superman , let alone composite superman. And hyperbole aside RKT doesnt have much feats though.

#17 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Stopped time? I am assuming you are referring to The Mighty Thor 581, we dont know for how long he can stop time, and he never really erased anyone out of existence its just a sentence he spoutted that he could do so.

Stopping time for skyfathers in general doesn't seem at all that large of a task - a simple wave of the hand and everything was brought to a grinding halt - with the exception of the Designate and Thor. How long he could continue this - isn't at all implied, since it as mentioned was a fairly simple task. What we've seen from Odin in terms of time manipulation - the man could turn the clock back to undo the destruction of Earth by Thor (though King Thor to reverse time as much as he needed the Designate's power).

He wasn't just saying he could, he actively was doing so to Desak - the problem is the plot-amulet - prevented him zapping him out existence.

Well Loki intereferred by attacking Designate and well i dont see how being possessed by Designate makes it any more powerful given the fact that Thor on his own has fought the destroyer possessed by Designate before.

The Designate has been remarked to be Odin's level of power - Loki as I recall even saying this Destroyer would serve as their defense against the Celestials. I think easily manipulating the Destroyer itself with her power, as well as Desak, being unaffected by Thor's stopping of time and her efforts to help him turn back the clock imply some level of power on-par with the Odin Power (with the exception of Thor Girl burning said powers afterwards and the Odin Power simply leaving Thor for a bit).

He didnt actually one shot Desak there is a whole lot of context involve there though. King thor along with his son fights Desak for 2 issues before 581 (579 and 580) and Desak is later attacked by the Destroyer Armor. So he was weakened before the blow landed on him anyways. Also the previous 2 issues directly contradicts Thor being able to one shot desak anyways.

I was specifically referring to when Desak fused with the Destroyer - a charged up Mjolnir toss proceeds to one shot him. Seemingly in the transition into becoming one with the Destroyer he lost his plot protection from the Amulet - which is the main reason King Thor had issues with him to begin with.

I am a little confused are you talking about King Thor or Rune King Thor, because King Thor fought Surter for a while and BFRed him because he couldnt have beaten him outright (The Mighty Thor 400), while Rune King Thor (The Mighty Thor 587, or volume 2 85) where despite his big words he doesnt actually fight him at all, he just lets Surfer break through to Asgard to complete Ragnarok because apparently its essential.
Mangog he beat him, but feats by feats Magog isnt even in the same class as Sa superman , let alone composite superman. And hyperbole aside RKT doesnt have much feats though.

Rune King Thor - I didn't think it would be that confusing given I referred to his confident manner he spoke towards Surtur as he had him reforge Mjolnir, then blast a path to Asgard for him. Mangog was mentioned as the complete difference of strength Thor had - normally Thor can't just restrain Mangog with his hand - then proceed to release those souls. He's not just a little stronger than Mangog at this point, he's way stronger.

I understand he doesn't have many feats - outside raising himself from the dead, summoning Odin's spirit to whisk away, out Omniscient-ing those who sat above shadow - as well as finally ending the perpetual Ragnarok that bound all these gods them. That's why I'm referring to King Thor - and to extent Odin himself is a good showing of what the Odin Power alone is capable of.

@icysloth said:

@isaac_clarke: Because Thor is more popular than Composite Superman, but even as RKT his powerset just isn't enough to take down composite superman. I wouldn't be suprised if people would vote for regular thor against composite superman.

How can someone that can control time to extent and outright warp their opponent out of existence - with Omniscience backing each decision - not potent enough to win? Outside Silver Age PIS of-course.

#18 Edited by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall:

Damn, I forgot how powerful he was.

Maybe my decision will change...

#19 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke said:

Stopping time for skyfathers in general doesn't seem at all that large of a task - a simple wave of the hand and everything was brought to a grinding halt - with the exception of the Designate and Thor. How long he could continue this - isn't at all implied, since it as mentioned was a fairly simple task. What we've seen from Odin in terms of time manipulation - the man could turn the clock back to undo the destruction of Earth by Thor (though King Thor to reverse time as much as he needed the Designate's power).

He wasn't just saying he could, he actively was doing so to Desak - the problem is the plot-amulet - prevented him zapping him out existence.

Oh so we are talking about skyfather in general, thats a different issue. In order to make a case for Thor we have to show Thor himself and not Odin not anyone else do something significant with the Odin force. Now given the fact that Thor had Odinforce for almost a 100 issues (The Mighty Thor 545 - 615) he has had enough time to showcase his abilities with Odin force which have thus far seen a lot less impressive.

The Designate has been remarked to be Odin's level of power - Loki as I recall even saying this Destroyer would serve as their defense against the Celestials. I think easily manipulating the Destroyer itself with her power, as well as Desak, being unaffected by Thor's stopping of time and her efforts to help him turn back the clock imply some level of power on-par with the Odin Power (with the exception of Thor Girl burning said powers afterwards and the Odin Power simply leaving Thor for a bit).

The power level of Designate doesnt change the power level of Destroyer. Be it animated by human or godly soul destroyer has always looked to be on the same level of power. The only time it looked more powerful was when Odin used it. Which could be explained because of the following:

  1. Odin was the one who created the armor so perhaps he knows how to use it best.
  2. Destroyer armor was amped up by the entire Asgardian Energy to fight the celestials.
  3. Destroyer armor was further amped up because it was holding the Odin sword.

None of which applies to the Destroyer Armor that King Thor fought, and given the fact that Thor did farily well on his own before getting the Odin force to the same armor animated by Designate soul i dont think thats a very high end feat either.

I was specifically referring to when Desak fused with the Destroyer - a charged up Mjolnir toss proceeds to one shot him. Seemingly in the transition into becoming one with the Destroyer he lost his plot protection from the Amulet - which is the main reason King Thor had issues with him to begin with.

Yes that part i got, a charged up Mjolnir was able to make a hole at the destroyer armor, which is impressive. I understand your argument however i still find it hard to see this as being an overtly impressive feats , let alone so impressive that he could beat someone who is likely 10s of times stronger than him.

Rune King Thor - I didn't think it would be that confusing given I referred to his confident manner he spoke towards Surtur as he had him reforge Mjolnir, then blast a path to Asgard for him. Mangog was mentioned as the complete difference of strength Thor had - normally Thor can't just restrain Mangog with his hand - then proceed to release those souls. He's not just a little stronger than Mangog at this point, he's way stronger.

I understand he doesn't have many feats - outside raising himself from the dead, summoning Odin's spirit to whisk away, out Omniscient-ing those who sat above shadow - as well as finally ending the perpetual Ragnarok that bound all these gods them. That's why I'm referring to King Thor - and to extent Odin himself is a good showing of what the Odin Power alone is capable of.

The thing that confused me was you were talking about King thor all the while and this was the first time you talked about Rune King thor, and King Thor has fought Surtur , even boasted against him but eventually once hardpressed had to resort to BFR. So was not sure which one you were referring to.

Like i said previously being able to one shot Mangog is impressive but he's fighting someone a lot more powerful than Mangog.

Also way stronger than mangog? you will have a very hard time proving that due to lack of his feats.

Not only does he have lack of feats, he has nothing above Composite Superman, nor speed, nor strength nothing. Composite Superman is just as likely to speedblitz him before he gets time to think.

Raising himself from the dead, i assume you are talking about Mighty Thor 545, thats because as lord of Asgard he has dominion over hela's domane too making raising asgardian soul an easy thing. Not to mention it has nothing to do with the battle. This is further explained in The Mighty thor 567 where he tried to bring a dead girl back to life, the body is healed but she becomes a zombie because he cant call upon the spirit. That is because human soul dont go to Hela's domain where King Thor has dominion over.

He did not out omniscient those who sit in the shadow, it was thanks to his human side, he took an action that they did not forsee, i.e. choose to destroy their link to asgard, rather than obeying their command since they where ment to be the "gods" for asgardian.

@isaac_clarke said:

How can someone that can control time to extent and outright warp their opponent out of existence - with Omniscience backing each decision - not potent enough to win? Outside Silver Age PIS of-course.

Any reason you believe him to be outright omnisecene or that he could warp anyone out of existence? Because as i see it, he says he can, but hasnt done it to prove it. Also what stopping Composite Superman from simply blitzing him?

#20 Posted by King Saturn (224043 posts) - - Show Bio
Pre Crisis Composite Superman might be able to defeat Rune King Thor... I don't know how durable Composite Superman is to High Level Magic but we do know that Composite Superman has a ton of different powers as well as Pre Crisis Superman level attributes x 3.  
 
Rune King Thor would easily beat Post Crisis Composite Superman... that version of Composite Superman was a Shell of Himself. 
#21 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Rune King Thor for the stomp.

#22 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Rune King Thor for the stomp.

Any particular reason why you believe RKT would win, let alone stomp?

#23 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@CadenceV2 said:

Rune King Thor for the stomp.

Any particular reason why you believe RKT would win, let alone stomp?

Actually nothing solid. I belive personaly on the feats of Odin Force. Rune King Thor never showed those feats in his 16 page of awsomness but he has the power to stop or reverses time. Heck he took away the essence of Mangog. What makes Compisit Supes immune to that? Has it ever been done to CS? I think Versatility and feats of the Odin Force is enough as to why a Wiser than Odin (he litteraly had come out wiser and more powerful than Odin to become Rune King Thor, fact) Rune King Thor during the Avenger Dissassemble time frame should win.

#24 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Actually nothing solid. I belive personaly on the feats of Odin Force. Rune King Thor never showed those feats in his 16 page of awsomness but he has the power to stop or reverses time. Heck he took away the essence of Mangog. What makes Compisit Supes immune to that? Has it ever been done to CS? I think Versatility and feats of the Odin Force is enough as to why a Wiser than Odin (he litteraly had come out wiser and more powerful than Odin to become Rune King Thor, fact) Rune King Thor during the Avenger Dissassemble time frame should win.

Thor actually had Odin Force for about 100 issues (The mighty thor 545- 615, not including other 2 or 3 off issues where he's gained Odin force) to be fair, and if within those issues if he fails to show any feats on par with Odin so i am not going to put him at Odin Level despite all his hyperbole.

He had power to reverse time? Its a statement he made during The Regning and travel back through time, but then so has Silver Age superman and the being in question is 3x stronger than Silver Age superman.

He killed Mangog, how and what he did was never really explained.

Why do i believe Composite superman is immune to that:

1. Because he is many times stronger than Mangog.

2. He's fast enough to dodge Thor from putting his hand over his head, unlike Mangog who has no super speed.

Wiser or otherwise, he doesnt have feats to put him on levels with odin let alone above. Versatility, Composite Superman has the power of entire Legion of Superman, thats as versatile as it gets.

#25 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: It never explain what he did to one of the stronger beings in marvel. He simply did.

Also feats regardless or not of Thor I said feats of Odin Force. Odin Force is the same power spring and with that power he can decimate any superman really. Thats my opponion.

#26 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@Killemall: It never explain what he did to one of the stronger beings in marvel. He simply did.

Also feats regardless or not of Thor I said feats of Odin Force. Odin Force is the same power spring and with that power he can decimate any superman really. Thats my opponion.

One of the strongest beings in marvel, just hope Thanos and Kurse dont hear you buddy :p

No i understand, what i was however saying is that seem a little odd because he has had ample time to show the power and mastery of Odin force which he did not do, which makes it hard to say well Odin did this with Odin force , RKT would probably do the same. Sounds like a weak argument, but i suppose we can both agree to disagree.

#27 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Kurse is a 400 tonner max aint he? I swore Mangog is like Raging Hulk Strong. A Planet of angry beings into one.Hes up there on the marvel tier.

Lower Tier but up there.

I blame the Writers for bad writing. Look at it this way. the Rogues can and have many times Tag Flash. Over and over again. None are Faster than light at all. Yet any Flash Arguemnt vs whoever is Flash Wins cause hes so fast. We know WHAT his power is capable of regardless what hes shown time and again being tagged by Rogue Gallery. Same with Odin Force Thor. He never shown it for sake of writing but he has the power to do so and we never saw what Rune King Thor would do. We know he dismiss Magog like nothing and erased him. We know Loki with more power than ever effortlessly had his head plucked off and carried around by Thor. We know Surtur who never admits a foe can win look at Rune King Thor and said DAMN! Rune King Thor also accomplish what Odin with all his power and wisdom could not but tried so hard to do. End the cycle.

That is all done in 16 pages of comic. He should be high Tier past Odins own power.

#28 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Oh so we are talking about skyfather in general, thats a different issue.

I was pointing out how in general time manipulation isn't entirely that big of a deal for Skyfather's. Odin has stopped time to stop a Loki-Destroyer mid visor blast - proceeding to punk out his body.

In order to make a case for Thor we have to show Thor himself and not Odin not anyone else do something significant with the Odin force. Now given the fact that Thor had Odinforce for almost a 100 issues (The Mighty Thor 545 - 615) he has had enough time to showcase his abilities with Odin force which have thus far seen a lot less impressive.

Minor difference being Thor's learning curve with the Odin Power, it isn't for a while till he grows a beard, has a son and starts pulling out cool tricks with it.

The power level of Designate doesnt change the power level of Destroyer. Be it animated by human or godly soul destroyer has always looked to be on the same level of power. The only time it looked more powerful was when Odin used it. Which could be explained because of the following:
  1. Odin was the one who created the armor so perhaps he knows how to use it best.
  1. Destroyer armor was amped up by the entire Asgardian Energy to fight the celestials.
  1. Destroyer armor was further amped up because it was holding the Odin sword.
None of which applies to the Destroyer Armor that King Thor fought, and given the fact that Thor did farily well on his own before getting the Odin force to the same armor animated by Designate soul i dont think thats a very high end feat either.

Then I question Loki's logic:

The entire point of putting Thor Girl / the Designate seems entirely pointless if the average human's life essence will get the same results. Regardless the Designate once released by the plot amulet twisted Destroyer into the Desak Destroyer - rather effortlessly toying with Odin's most powerful weapon. Though correction for myself, Thor really only fought the Desak Destroyer's visor blast. I was under the perception that the essence animating the Destroyer had an effect on the actual armor (namely why Odin would hop into it, then have all of Asgard follow him to enhance it - but I guess I could be wrong).

I was specifically referring to when Desak fused with the Destroyer - a charged up Mjolnir toss proceeds to one shot him. Seemingly in the transition into becoming one with the Destroyer he lost his plot protection from the Amulet - which is the main reason King Thor had issues with him to begin with.

Yes that part i got,

Then why respond with this?:

He didnt actually one shot Desak there is a whole lot of context involve there though.

Desak certainly gave them a tough time prior, but for the most part that has entirely to do with said amulet.

a charged up Mjolnir was able to make a hole at the destroyer armor, which is impressive. I understand your argument however i still find it hard to see this as being an overtly impressive feats , let alone so impressive that he could beat someone who is likely 10s of times stronger than him.

Busting up the Destroyer (or in this case a new Desak iteration of it), seems like a pretty powerful showing of the difference between King Thor and Thor. And Rune King Thor from what I understood reading disassembled, is basically an Odin Powered Thor on magic rune roids.

The thing that confused me was you were talking about King thor all the while and this was the first time you talked about Rune King thor, and King Thor has fought Surtur , even boasted against him but eventually once hardpressed had to resort to BFR. So was not sure which one you were referring to.

Glad to straighten it out. The Odin Power alone doesn't have a track record all that well against Surtur - so Thor having a tough time with Surtur wasn't too surprising.

Like i said previously being able to one shot Mangog is impressive but he's fighting someone a lot more powerful than Mangog.
Also way stronger than mangog? you will have a very hard time proving that due to lack of his feats.

Seems that way honestly:

Mangog more or less charges at Thor and finds himself restrained by Thor, rather effortlessly with one hand. Given he's levitating - it's all that one arm's strength.

Not only does he have lack of feats, he has nothing above Composite Superman, nor speed, nor strength nothing. Composite Superman is just as likely to speedblitz him before he gets time to think.

I think it's fairly difficult to out-think someone that already knows what exactly will happen - Omniscience kinda removes thinking from the equation. Not to mention if someone like Bor is more durable than Mjolnir, I shutter to think how durable Rune King Thor is - much as that personal shielding he seemed to be sporting that trapped Mangog in his tracks. Unless Composite Superman is hitting hard enough to make his head implode - I'm not sure simply beating on him will entirely slow him down, the man killed himself and then brought himself back from the dead.

Raising himself from the dead, i assume you are talking about Mighty Thor 545, thats because as lord of Asgard he has dominion over hela's domane too making raising asgardian soul an easy thing. Not to mention it has nothing to do with the battle. This is further explained in The Mighty thor 567 where he tried to bring a dead girl back to life, the body is healed but she becomes a zombie because he cant call upon the spirit. That is because human soul dont go to Hela's domain where King Thor has dominion over.

I'm referring to when he hung himself (which didn't quite make sense) and died. Hela approached him - Thor was finally hers, he draws runes on the snow - summoning Odin and then appears before Those Who Sit Above Shadows embraced by the Odin-Force once again and none worse for wear. The event in King Thor sounds a little PIS in regards to bringing back a single individual - that shouldn't at all be an issue for Thor.

He did not out omniscient those who sit in the shadow, it was thanks to his human side, he took an action that they did not forsee, i.e. choose to destroy their link to asgard, rather than obeying their command since they where ment to be the "gods" for asgardian.

They argued they know all outcomes past, present and future.

Thor apparently is sporting a better pair of lens into future events than they are - so I'm not sure how he didn't out omniscient them.

Any reason you believe him to be outright omnisecene or that he could warp anyone out of existence? Because as i see it, he says he can, but hasnt done it to prove it. Also what stopping Composite Superman from simply blitzing him?

His knowledge went beyond Wisdom - namely why he required getting the runes in the first place. Otherwise a sacrifice of the eyes would have cut it.

  • "I remember now; all of the end times, each different, and some false. But always it comes. It is a never-ending cycle...Why!?"
  • "For That knowing you must seek the future, you must seek the magic of the runes."

So he goes about killing himself.

  • "The magic of the runes and wisdom from the well of mimir give Thor the power to know the past -- to control the present -- and guide the future!"
  • "Now Thor can see through the veil of time, past the knowing of the gods!"

To sum up the rest, more or less his perception is further augmented - and knows exactly what he must do - and does it. Namely his reaction.

  • "NOOOO! NO I CANNOT!"
  • "The runes show him the future of all things -- of every man and beast - every leaf on every tree!"
  • "He sees every deed, seen and unseen -- every battle lost and won!"
  • *scrolls down*
  • "He sees the end of all things --- and the part he must play in it"

My reference was his attempt to remove Desak from existence:

Or at least that whole turning him into stretched out grey stuff seemed like he was doing something of the sort. Problem Thor mainly had here was said amulet - repeatedly stopping his efforts in his tracks.

#29 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Rune King Thor also have Odin's Force, just being a skyfather alone is already out of normal Superman's league. Rune's magic makes him more than an average skyfather, so RKT should takes this.

#30 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: Do you have the one where he talks to Surur or pops Loki's Head off to carry around lol?

#31 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke said:

I was pointing out how in general time manipulation isn't entirely that big of a deal for Skyfather's. Odin has stopped time to stop a Loki-Destroyer mid visor blast - proceeding to punk out his body.

Ok here we go. In general would not matter because the feat has to come from Thor himself and his claim at time manipulation is what he showed in The Mighty Thor 581 and his claim was he could stop time, although which he never does and travels back in time to speak with his past counterpart, the scans are below:

So unless he has actually stopped time in the middle of a fight i am hesistant to think he can do so in a fight, let alone do so before he gets blitz is Composite Superman does so before he can even think.

Minor difference being Thor's learning curve with the Odin Power, it isn't for a while till he grows a beard, has a son and starts pulling out cool tricks with it.

Thats a cop-out, because Thor started having beard 3 issues after he got the whole Odin force. And he retained Odin force after his King thor saga, as well as Rune King Thor saga and yet failed to show anything significant with the powers after that. The Rune King Thor saga ended in The Mighty Thor 587, and he had Odin Force all the way till 615, thats 28 more issues of Odin force after having a massive practice and amp up with it, so even if then he fails to do anything significant, it stands to reason he doesnt have much skill with the Odin force.

Then I question Loki's logic:

The entire point of putting Thor Girl / the Designate seems entirely pointless if the average human's life essence will get the same results. Regardless the Designate once released by the plot amulet twisted Destroyer into the Desak Destroyer - rather effortlessly toying with Odin's most powerful weapon. Though correction for myself, Thor really only fought the Desak Destroyer's visor blast. I was under the perception that the essence animating the Destroyer had an effect on the actual armor (namely why Odin would hop into it, then have all of Asgard follow him to enhance it - but I guess I could be wrong).

Loki animated Destroyer armor with Desagnate soul because thats one soul against which Desaak would think twice before attacking as Desaak actually serves Desagnate. Not to mention Loki never says the soul would increase destroyer's power level.

The reason Odin hopped into it was because he had to use the Odin sword, also if you are interested i have at least 7 encounters of thor vs destroyer armor where the armor has been animated by human, godly and devil's soul and no difference in power level was seen, if you are interested i could post each encounters to you.

Then why respond with this?:

To let you know that , that particular part i agree, although that was after Desaak had fought king thor, his son as well as getting punched by the Destroyer which would stand to reason he was weak to being with.

Desak certainly gave them a tough time prior, but for the most part that has entirely to do with said amulet.

Well the amulete doesnt make you invulnerable or anything, its his connection to the soul of Designati, "the spirit of jewel" and he was punched in the face by the destroyer armor before thor even fought him. The reason he went down could entirely be because he was hurt by the destroyer's punch.

Busting up the Destroyer (or in this case a new Desak iteration of it), seems like a pretty powerful showing of the difference between King Thor and Thor. And Rune King Thor from what I understood reading disassembled, is basically an Odin Powered Thor on magic rune roids.

King Thor had to be more powerful than normal Thor the whole Odin Force thingy and Rune Thor was sort of explained as being twice as powerful as Odin although based on feats he has none. I choose to buy feats above hyperbole, and feat wise Odin should be more powerful by a huge margin.

Seems that way honestly:

Mangog more or less charges at Thor and finds himself restrained by Thor, rather effortlessly with one hand. Given he's levitating - it's all that one arm's strength.

He stopped a charging Mangog with one hand, Mangog was shocked and then he releases his soul. But i am inclined to agree here.

I think it's fairly difficult to out-think someone that already knows what exactly will happen - Omniscience kinda removes thinking from the equation. Not to mention if someone like Bor is more durable than Mjolnir, I shutter to think how durable Rune King Thor is - much as that personal shielding he seemed to be sporting that trapped Mangog in his tracks. Unless Composite Superman is hitting hard enough to make his head implode - I'm not sure simply beating on him will entirely slow him down, the man killed himself and then brought himself back from the dead.

What claim does RKT has on being omniscience or knowing the future, specially someone who has no asgardian connection whatsoever. Also Omniscience doesnt prevent you from getting blitz before you could think.

I honest think Sa Superman by himself has enough in him to punch so hard as it blow his head, and CA superman is 3X stronger with all the extra powers. The hammer itself as been broken by a lot less though, Perrikus was strong enough to cut the hammer in two, and we know he got stomped by Desaak during The Reneging.

I'm referring to when he hung himself (which didn't quite make sense) and died. Hela approached him - Thor was finally hers, he draws runes on the snow - summoning Odin and then appears before Those Who Sit Above Shadows embraced by the Odin-Force once again and none worse for wear. The event in King Thor sounds a little PIS in regards to bringing back a single individual - that shouldn't at all be an issue for Thor.

You have me at a loss to which incident you are referring to. If its pertaining to when he becomes Rune King Thor, then he hangs himself only once to obtain which is as follows but i am fairly certain thats not the scan you are talking about but i realised the same scans you have shown below.

Although i seem to missing scans from The Mighty Thor 587( volume 2 issue 5) from page no 12 to 15, so that might be when the said thing happened. For whatever reason i did not bother to save those scans.

They argued they know all outcomes past, present and future.

Thor apparently is sporting a better pair of lens into future events than they are - so I'm not sure how he didn't out omniscient them.

Even in the scan you presented, The Mighty Thor volume 2 Issue 84, they claim they can see past present and future and Thor replies that Odin saw a way to hide his actions from them because they knew gods and not humans, thats the first scan you have posted of the two, and read thor's reply. Thats what i honestly got from the series, no where does he actually claim on being omniscience.

@isaac_clarke said:

His knowledge went beyond Wisdom - namely why he required getting the runes in the first place. Otherwise a sacrifice of the eyes would have cut it.

  • "I remember now; all of the end times, each different, and some false. But always it comes. It is a never-ending cycle...Why!?"
  • "For That knowing you must seek the future, you must seek the magic of the runes."

So he goes about killing himself.

  • "The magic of the runes and wisdom from the well of mimir give Thor the power to know the past -- to control the present -- and guide the future!"
  • "Now Thor can see through the veil of time, past the knowing of the gods!"

To sum up the rest, more or less his perception is further augmented - and knows exactly what he must do - and does it. Namely his reaction.

  • "NOOOO! NO I CANNOT!"
  • "The runes show him the future of all things -- of every man and beast - every leaf on every tree!"
  • "He sees every deed, seen and unseen -- every battle lost and won!"
  • *scrolls down*
  • "He sees the end of all things --- and the part he must play in it"

The reason he had to sacrifice two eyes and dies twice was not because he had to gain added wisdom but because Odin had already done that before. My english is lowsy , so i will let the scan explain itself. Its clearly explained in the scan below:

Rune was showing him stuffs when he was hung on the tree not after he broke free. the scan is below:

I know you have already posted the same scan but we seem to be interepreting the scan different. The rune showed him past , present and future and what he must do (i.e let the Ragnorak occur), which he did not like and he broke free, which stand to suggest he was seeing things while hung in the tree and not after that. Its not like he can see past, present and future all the time.

My reference was his attempt to remove Desak from existence:

Or at least that whole turning him into stretched out grey stuff seemed like he was doing something of the sort. Problem Thor mainly had here was said amulet - repeatedly stopping his efforts in his tracks.

Yes he tried to erase Desak who was immune to his powers thanks to the connection with the amulate, but Thor doesnt wipe him out of existence once the amulate is removed or does that to anyone else. that is why i think his abilities to remove someone out of existence is iffy.

#32 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@Killemall: Kurse is a 400 tonner max aint he? I swore Mangog is like Raging Hulk Strong. A Planet of angry beings into one.Hes up there on the marvel tier.

Lower Tier but up there.

I blame the Writers for bad writing. Look at it this way. the Rogues can and have many times Tag Flash. Over and over again. None are Faster than light at all. Yet any Flash Arguemnt vs whoever is Flash Wins cause hes so fast. We know WHAT his power is capable of regardless what hes shown time and again being tagged by Rogue Gallery. Same with Odin Force Thor. He never shown it for sake of writing but he has the power to do so and we never saw what Rune King Thor would do. We know he dismiss Magog like nothing and erased him. We know Loki with more power than ever effortlessly had his head plucked off and carried around by Thor. We know Surtur who never admits a foe can win look at Rune King Thor and said DAMN! Rune King Thor also accomplish what Odin with all his power and wisdom could not but tried so hard to do. End the cycle.

That is all done in 16 pages of comic. He should be high Tier past Odins own power.

Kurse is way stronger than 400 tons. Kurse was magically made to be twice as strong as Thor by Maliketh, and later Beyonder even increased his powers. Thor is as helplessly outmatched against Kurse as he is against Destroyer, and thor has beaten Magog twice that i know of.

Surtur never said RKT could win, in fact Thor boosted but let Surfer go on complete Ragnorak, i dont see how thats a feat .

#33 Posted by society619 (933 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin Force Thor feats

  1. Helped Thor dent Captain America's shield
  2. Odin used it to create a galaxy then destroy it
  3. With The Odin Force, Thor takes two nukes out of his chest without injury
  4. Kills Captain America while destroying his shield
  5. Kills Wolverine while destroying him and his Adamantium bones.
  6. Thor has used the Odin Force to cure a man of his terminal cancer.
  7. Thor has used the Odin Force to stop time itself.
  8. Odin used it to cut out the heart of a star, with which it was used to forge and empower the legendary hammer Mjolnir.
  9. Odin used it to bring back to life both Thor and Brunnhilde.(Valkyrie)
  10. By channeling the Odin Force into his sacred hammer Mjolnir, Thor decapitated the nigh-invincible Destroyer Armor with one strike.
  11. Thor used the Odin Force to not only become the supreme ruler of Earth itself, but also eliminate all of its hero's and villains that opposed him.
  12. Odin used it to transform the cursed Nibelling rings into the gigantic Oversword of Asgard.(now known as the Odinsword)
  13. Thor used it to destroy the Blood Axe of Skurge the Executioner, stating that only the Odin Force was capable of doing so.
  14. Thor used the Odin Force to restore not only the floating city of Asgard on Earth, but also restored the lives of all the Asgardians who were lost after Ragnarok.
  15. Odin used it to create and empower Stormbreaker, the hammer of Beta Ray Bill.
  16. Odin used it to create and empower the Uru mace Thunderstrike, as a gift to Eric Masterson for all his heroic efforts in Asgard's name.
  17. Odin used it to trap Surtur within his own body, becoming a living prison for the fire Elemental.
  18. Odin used it to save the life of Eric Masterson by merging his life force with that of Thor's.
#34 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@isaac_clarke: Do you have the one where he talks to Surur or pops Loki's Head off to carry around lol?

I do.

Loki Incident(The Mighty thor 586)

Surtur incident (The Mighty Thor 587)

Thor has fought and beaten Surtur before with Odin Force too, in the Mighty Thor 400

I have read every issue with Thor when he had Odin force / rune force, have all the scan and ironically i am the one arguing against RKT =(, such is life.

#35 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Awsome thanks. I had to re read the Surtur one. Ill scratch that one off.

The Surture Scans does show some power of Thor who can (combine with OF and Runes) restore his Hammer no problem as the Odin Force says. Where we know Odin Force Thor alone had to pour all his OF into remaking it after his battle with Bor.

The Loki (who is a very powerful Magic goer) being one shotted and carry around effortlessly by RKT is pretty impressive.

#36 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@Killemall: Awsome thanks. I had to re read the Surtur one. Ill scratch that one off.

The Surture Scans does show some power of Thor who can (combine with OF and Runes) restore his Hammer no problem as the Odin Force says. Where we know Odin Force Thor alone had to pour all his OF into remaking it after his battle with Bor.

The Loki (who is a very powerful Magic goer) being one shotted and carry around effortlessly by RKT is pretty impressive.

IT is indeed, never said RKT wasnt impressive. What i am questioning is how he is going to get around beating someone who's many times stronger and faster. Despite Odin force boost he did not increase his speed, heck even Odin doesnt have impressive speed. And we know Thor has been blitz by a lot less, spiderman, Mongoose (Twice) and himself admitting Wolverine is faster.

#37 Posted by Bo88gdan (4401 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

@blackadamFTW said:

Definitely RKT.

Composite Superman is powerful, but he's certainly not on the level of RKT.

#38 Posted by WarBlade539 (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Composite Superman cannot simply blitz him. Rune King Thor is much above Skyfather level. He easily defeated 'Those who sit above in shadows' who were manipulating Odin himself. Odin is powerful enough to teleport entire Galaxies across vast distances and when his evil self was brought to life by Hela, he battled Infinity and the resulting battle destroyed countless Galaxies. Odin has limitless power and with said power, he can increase his physical strength and durability to an unlimited degree.

Composite Superman is incredibly powerful, I agree. But Rune Lord Thor, who is much more powerful than Odin becomes sort of an Abstract at the end of the Ragnarok saga. In this level physical strength and durability means little to him. However, if he chooses to brawl he can very easily gain virtually unlimited strength, stamina, speed and durability. But I doubt he would do that. The guy's omniscient. He erase him from existence, take away his powers...do virtually anything he wants.

#39 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999 said:

@Killemall: Composite Superman cannot simply blitz him. Rune King Thor is much above Skyfather level. He easily defeated 'Those who sit above in shadows' who were manipulating Odin himself. Odin is powerful enough to teleport entire Galaxies across vast distances and when his evil self was brought to life by Hela, he battled Infinity and the resulting battle destroyed countless Galaxies. Odin has limitless power and with said power, he can increase his physical strength and durability to an unlimited degree.

Composite Superman is incredibly powerful, I agree. But Rune Lord Thor, who is much more powerful than Odin becomes sort of an Abstract at the end of the Ragnarok saga. In this level physical strength and durability means little to him. However, if he chooses to brawl he can very easily gain virtually unlimited strength, stamina, speed and durability. But I doubt he would do that. The guy's omniscient. He erase him from existence, take away his powers...do virtually anything he wants.

0. I know well who Rune King Thor is and who Odin is.

1. Its not Odin in the battle but Rune King Thor, so if you are making a case for Thor you will have to use the feats from Thor and not Odin.

2. Why can Composite Superman not simply blitz him? He's faster than thor and there is no evidence to suggest Thor is no longer susceptible to physical harm, so it should work just fine.

3. Rune King Thor never fought Those who it above in the shadow, all he did was broke the Thread that connects The One Who Sit in the Shadows with Asgard so they could not longer feed off Asgardian soul. Also Those who sit above in the shadow have only been mentioned twice before during Thor Lord of Asgard Saga and that is it, they are absolutely and utterly featless.

4. Any proof to show Rune King Thor being much more powerful than Odin? He surely doesnt have feats to match up with him, and hyperboles count for not in the battle. So if you can show me a feat that puts him unambiguously and unquestionably above Odin then i would be inclined to include Odin's feat for RKT, as of now feats wise Odin has got RKT beat by quite a margin.

5. Any proof to show physical strength and durability means little to RKT, coz i have read ever issue of Thor with Odin force and havent seen a proof, so by all means show me a scan, quote me a issue or show me a bio that says physical strength and durability means nothing to Rkt. Because Galactus is still far above them and he can be harmed by physical means, in fact I have seen Galactus bleed in the hands of Tyrant, and as such i am not going to agree strength and durability means nothing in his battle, unless you have substantive evidence apart from hyperbole, and in this particular case there are no hyperbole stating such either.

6. You say RKT can gain virtually limited strength, speed, stamina? Unless you are able to show proof to back up this scans, and i honestly dont think there are any, i am not going to agree with this. Guys more powerful than RKT even by means of hyperbole have been vulnerable to physical harm, including but not limited to Galactus (Silver Surfer Volume 3 108-109), Arishem the Jugdge (Eternal Issue 03), Adjucitor , an ancient being more powerful than Galactus, (The Last Fantastic Four Graphic Novel), etc. Would you like to see scans?

7. Firstly i do not agree he was omniscient despite what few wikis will tell you because he was never states thus in the comics nor does have he feats to prove so. He could see past , present and future while he was hung in the tree gaining rune magic , since this is a battle and unless you are saying he goes and hangs himself on the tree mid-fight i dont see how that counts. The other instance was were he claimed he was one with the universe, which doesnt count as omniscient either. Furthermore, being omniscent means you know what is going to happen next, but does not necessarily mean you can prevent it. Knowing he is going to get punched 1000 times in the next second is not going to help Thor if he is not fast enough to react, and i am sorry but i am yet to see anything that suggest RKT is faster than normal thor who has been blitz by Spiderman, Mongoose (twice) and Wolverine.

8. Any evidence to show he can erase someone from existence. King Thor claimed he could do so and tried it twice against Desaak and failed both time and since he has not effectively erased anyone out of existence it is very hard to argue that would be a viable means of victory. The only instance you could possible site is him destroying Mangog, and all he said was he sit Mangog's spirit free, which by no means counts as erasing someone from existence. Now Composite Superman is a statue which magically got life i am not even sure he has a soul. Not to mention he is fast enough to avoid Thor putting a hand on his head because unlike Mangog who has absolutely no superspeed, he is many times faster than the speed of light.

9. You claim RKT can take away his power and virtually do anything, once again could you show me a proof of that. The only proof i could think of is him being able to being pluck off Loki head, that wont be viable because Composite Superman is 100 if not 1000s time faster than Loki and Thor both put together.

#40 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bo88gdan said:

@jeanroygrant said:

@blackadamFTW said:

Definitely RKT.

Composite Superman is powerful, but he's certainly not on the level of RKT.

Based on what, if i may ask.

Because i frankly dont see any answer for Composite Superman strength and speed, how does he deal with someone vastly stronger than him?

Not to mention one of his ability comes from Matter-Eater Lad, lol he could just eat RKT up alive before he had time to react, hows that for a win :p

Also what defense does RKT have against telepathy? I do not even a single instance where it states RKT or King Thor has better telepathy resistant than normal Thor, is there anything i am missing?

#41 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: I wish people would stop quoting what I said before. My decision has been changed!!!

#42 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackadamFTW said:

@Killemall: I wish people would stop quoting what I said before. My decision has been changed!!!

=( sorry boss, but its just so much more convenient to quote than reply to multiple people.

#43 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: I don't mind what you did. That's perfectly fine. I just don't want people like Bo88gdan quoting it.

#44 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackadamFTW said:

@Killemall: I don't mind what you did. That's perfectly fine. I just don't want people like Bo88gdan quoting it.

Fair enough :)

#45 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Bo88gdan said:

@jeanroygrant said:

@blackadamFTW said:

Definitely RKT.

Composite Superman is powerful, but he's certainly not on the level of RKT.

Based on what, if i may ask.

Because i frankly dont see any answer for Composite Superman strength and speed, how does he deal with someone vastly stronger than him?

Not to mention one of his ability comes from Matter-Eater Lad, lol he could just eat RKT up alive before he had time to react, hows that for a win :p

Also what defense does RKT have against telepathy? I do not even a single instance where it states RKT or King Thor has better telepathy resistant than normal Thor, is there anything i am missing?

When your a skyfather & have Nigh Omniscience, speed doesn't matter.

#46 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

When your a skyfather & have Nigh Omniscience, speed doesn't matter.

That is what i am asking you, why does it not matter. How is knowing that you are going to be beaten to death at extreme superspeed going to matter if you are not fast enough to do anything.

Neither have i see anything to suggest Thor can use time manipulation in a battle, because we clearly dont know how long it takes from him to do such and how long it last, nor have i seen anything to suggest RKT is not longer vulnerable to physical harm. For the other guy i even gave example of people who are above RKT and are still vulnerable to physical harm.

Also night omniscience is a hard to argue, how much does he know?

#47 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@jeanroygrant said:

When your a skyfather & have Nigh Omniscience, speed doesn't matter.

That is what i am asking you, why does it not matter. How is knowing that you are going to be beaten to death at extreme superspeed going to matter if you are not fast enough to do anything.

Neither have i see anything to suggest Thor can use time manipulation in a battle, because we clearly dont know how long it takes from him to do such and how long it last, nor have i seen anything to suggest RKT is not longer vulnerable to physical harm. For the other guy i even gave example of people who are above RKT and are still vulnerable to physical harm.

Also night omniscience is a hard to argue, how much does he know?

Bio

Thor at one point had access to an unlimited amount of power that was known as the Odin-Force. The Odin-Force was the power that Odin himself had wielded before his death that was then passed onto Thor. The Odin-Force was comprised of Odin's power as King of Asgard combined with the powers of his brothers Vili and Ve. These powers added to the powers Thor already had made him virtually omnipotent. Obtaining the Odin-Force made Thor of the most powerful beings in the entire Marvel Universe. When Thor possessed this power he was able to achieve a number of feats that have not been duplicated by any other being in the Marvel Universe. Thor was able to destroy Captain America's shield with a look, teleported Asgard over New York City, recreated the moon after it has been nearly disintegrated, as well as defeat Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Strange.

Thor was able to acquire the powers of the Rune during the battle of Ragnorak. These powers granted Thor virtually an unlimited supply of magical powers which were added to the powers he had previously gained from drinking from the Well of Mimir for wisdom. Thor was shown to have mystically abilities that had virtually no match. Some of the abilities that the Rune Magic granted Thor were the ability of flight without the aid of Mjolnir, teleportation, destroy a copied version of Mjolnir as well as summon a wave of mystical energy that could destroy an army of Loki who were armed with Mjolnir. Thor also displayed the ability to rebuild Valhalla as well as decapitate Loki without ending his life. Since the rebirth of Thor it is unknown whether or not he still is able to wield the magic of the Runes but since was he resurrected his eyes were restored and he has not shown any of the vast abilities that he once had with the power of the Rune Magic.

He became one with the universe.

Even King Thor did this.

#48 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant: Ok let see.

I am simply going to ignore the bio because thats obviously from a wiki which holds little to no validity.

Ok the scan feels incomplete lets try and post both the pages shall we (i'll just copy and past what i said to Issac earlier in the same thread):

Look at the two scans, i know it looks very small but if you right click it and open in a new tab it should be fine (although its on the wrong order, sorry).

Thor hangs himself to obtain Rune's magic, which shows him past, present and future. We agree here right.

It also shows Thor what he has to do, i..e let the Ragnarok happen, which he doesnt like.

So he breaks the link from the tree.

This brings us to an interesting point, Odin went through the same process and now so did Thor. Odin cant normally walk around and see all past, present and future together, so why should it be any different to Thor. And if you look at it rationally, it look as if he was seeing past/ present / future while he was hung on the tree and not after he broke free.

so unless we are saying Thor goes hangs himself in the battle its hard to say he sees past, present and future.

Another question i ask is , the past, present and future he sees are they absolute. Because Those who Sit in the Shadows were meant to be Asgardian gods so its safe to assume they at the very least have done the same. They claimed they could see past, present and future , yet they themselves admitted they did not see Thor breaking the Ragnorak cycle.

So in short what i am asking is:

1. Is there anything to show he can see past, present and future while not hung on the tree?

2. Is that future always correct, if Thor did something which TWAIS didnt seen in their future, how are we to know RKT is going to see exactly what Composite Superman is going to do.

3. If he can indeed see the future, how does that help if he is not longer fast enough to avoid it. TWAIS couldnt avoid thor breaking the ragnorak, what makes you think Thor could avoid getting blitz from Composite Superman?

What is this scan meant to prove ?

Read the scan thoroughly, is there any thing that says he was an abstract level without physical being apart from the art , because to me it looks like he is looking to the eternity (which is exactly what he says) and the picture seem to showing what he sees.

#49 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

Even King Thor did this.

I have read every King Thor issue and honestly done remember this, which issue is this from? And King thor in The Regning (while he had beard) never showed the ability to increase his size, he has shown that in an earlier issue (the Mighty Thor 400, about 115 odd issues before he becomes King thor)

#50 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@isaac_clarke said:

I was pointing out how in general time manipulation isn't entirely that big of a deal for Skyfather's. Odin has stopped time to stop a Loki-Destroyer mid visor blast - proceeding to punk out his body.

Ok here we go. In general would not matter because the feat has to come from Thor himself and his claim at time manipulation is what he showed in The Mighty Thor 581 and his claim was he could stop time, although which he never does and travels back in time to speak with his past counterpart, the scans are below:

You posted the scan yourself in which he did in-fact stop time. That's why Sif, the Enchantress and Magni are frozen in place. I'm not sure how you don't see that the panels are un-moving as Thor is flying around - that's the entire point of doing that, to show time was effectively halted for everyone outside Thor and the Designate.

So unless he has actually stopped time in the middle of a fight i am hesistant to think he can do so in a fight, let alone do so before he gets blitz is Composite Superman does so before he can even think.

Stopping time in his fight with Desak wouldn't have been effective because of the amulet. Desak effectively proved himself immune to the Odin Force and anything it does. There is no reason he can't do the same here.

Thats a cop-out, because Thor started having beard 3 issues after he got the whole Odin force.

True, but his experience with said beard takes him a while to master it.

And he retained Odin force after his King thor saga, as well as Rune King Thor saga and yet failed to show anything significant with the powers after that.

He lost the Odin Force in disassembled, it's why Loki was able to accomplish everything he did. It wasn't until he killed himself / revived himself till he was embraced by the Odin Power again.

The Rune King Thor saga ended in The Mighty Thor 587, and he had Odin Force all the way till 615, thats 28 more issues of Odin force after having a massive practice and amp up with it, so even if then he fails to do anything significant, it stands to reason he doesnt have much skill with the Odin force.

He wasn't sporting the entire Odin Force post resurrection - nor the knowledge of the runes. Namely why it was such a tremendous effort to remake Asgard - taking a week, for Odin during Fear Itself - he's literally creating a planet, with footsteps - as well as a new war-time Asgard and a jail for Thor. Pretty sure most of the Odinforce is long gone by #615 (like way back in Thor 602) and I'm not sure how ending the Ragnarok cycle isn't significant.

Loki animated Destroyer armor with Desagnate soul because thats one soul against which Desaak would think twice before attacking as Desaak actually serves Desagnate. Not to mention Loki never says the soul would increase destroyer's power level.

What? Desak had no issue attacking the Destroyer, the Destroyer is the one that had issues attacking Desak.

Since when did Desak serve the Designate / Thor Girl? He's a lone God Slayer - that if I recall killed the person that gave him that amulet to begin with.

The reason Odin hopped into it was because he had to use the Odin sword, also if you are interested i have at least 7 encounters of thor vs destroyer armor where the armor has been animated by human, godly and devil's soul and no difference in power level was seen, if you are interested i could post each encounters to you.

Why wouldn't the Destroyer be capable of lifting it on his own? Odin already zapped the Asgardians with a spell that let Thor use it against the World Eaters - so I'm not sure what incentive, outside making the Destroyer / himself as powerful as possible to fight the Celestials, he would have to enter the Destroyer. I'm well aware that a number of beings have hopped into the Destroyer and have clobbered Thor while possessing it; I'm under the impression there's a difference between Odin going in the Destroyer and a random civilian on the street.

To let you know that , that particular part i agree, although that was after Desaak had fought king thor, his son as well as getting punched by the Destroyer which would stand to reason he was weak to being with.

I'm not sure weak would be the right word - Desak looked unphased by everything, outside the Destroyer clobbering him for a bit - everyone else on the other hand weren't faring too well.

Well the amulete doesnt make you invulnerable or anything, its his connection to the soul of Designati, "the spirit of jewel" and he was punched in the face by the destroyer armor before thor even fought him. The reason he went down could entirely be because he was hurt by the destroyer's punch.

I'm not sure why you're under that impression - the Designate is Thor Girl - someone Thanos nearly killed prior to learning about her power. If said amulet was her power - why would it be required to set her free in the first place?

King Thor had to be more powerful than normal Thor the whole Odin Force thingy and Rune Thor was sort of explained as being twice as powerful as Odin although based on feats he has none. I choose to buy feats above hyperbole, and feat wise Odin should be more powerful by a huge margin.

Yeah, but the difference as described (with what I believe to be a portion of the Odin Power) in his fight with Bor - without it Bor's attacks would be killing Thor. Just as both times Thor's tanking the Destroyer's blasts - hell even fighting him one on one post resurrection to a stalemate - which is way about what normally Thor operates physically. The power difference is pretty substantial in terms of just physical stats (and given Odin has gone all astral form or changed his size - Thor's physical stats are likely not set in stone to boot.)

Nothing in the story suggests he's twice as powerful as Odin - simply he had to sacrifice twice as much for what he gained. The only arguable difference here for Thor and Odin - outside the runes is Thor's lineage through his father and Gaea - Rune King Thor might be the closest Thor will ever get to his Elder God roots. The thing is Odin apparently couldn't do what Thor did - so the writer is suggesting in some way Thor is in-fact more powerful at this point than his father.

He stopped a charging Mangog with one hand, Mangog was shocked and then he releases his soul. But i am inclined to agree here.

I'd probably use the word enraged over shocked. But I'm glad we can agree.

What claim does RKT has on being omniscience or knowing the future, specially someone who has no asgardian connection whatsoever. Also Omniscience doesnt prevent you from getting blitz before you could think.
I honest think Sa Superman by himself has enough in him to punch so hard as it blow his head, and CA superman is 3X stronger with all the extra powers. The hammer itself as been broken by a lot less though, Perrikus was strong enough to cut the hammer in two, and we know he got stomped by Desaak during The Reneging.

When the narrative describes his perspective now encompassing the past, present and future - as well as exactly what he will do - what else can one call it? It may be somewhat limited Omniscience (As in his perspective is really tied to just his universe really) but he's still doing things - he already knows he is going to do. It's just Adam Warlock with the IG. I'm not sure what purpose another showing - where another weapon was able to cleave through it, has much to do with durability (piercing vs durability - the Hulk is a regular offender as Wolverine cuts into someone arguably too durable to cut.) My point was Thor already knows what to do - no matter how fast his opponent would be - you're not beating out Omniscience in terms for thought processing power.

I'm not sure that is the case to be honest and given how many argue SA Superman isn't as durable as his Post Crisis counter part - someone as durable (or likely more so) as Mjolnir should still hold up.

Otherwise Thor would be dropping Odin every-time he slaps him with said hammer to the head - instead his father man handles him.

You have me at a loss to which incident you are referring to. If its pertaining to when he becomes Rune King Thor, then he hangs himself only once to obtain which is as follows but i am fairly certain thats not the scan you are talking about but i realised the same scans you have shown below.
Although i seem to missing scans from The Mighty Thor 587( volume 2 issue 5) from page no 12 to 15, so that might be when the said thing happened. For whatever reason i did not bother to save those scans.

Thor dies, Hela approaches, drawing a rune on the snow he summons Odin - Hela is pushed back as Thor is revived- appearing before TWSAS and explaining how he sees through them and what have you.

Even in the scan you presented, The Mighty Thor volume 2 Issue 84, they claim they can see past present and future and Thor replies that Odin saw a way to hide his actions from them because they knew gods and not humans, thats the first scan you have posted of the two, and read thor's reply. Thats what i honestly got from the series, no where does he actually claim on being omniscience.

I guess we're are seeing do different things then.

The reason he had to sacrifice two eyes and dies twice was not because he had to gain added wisdom but because Odin had already done that before. My english is lowsy , so i will let the scan explain itself. Its clearly explained in the scan below:

The magic well was just being stubborn - but yes Thor had to pay a greater price. Rather than losing one eye, both, rather than bringing himself close to death - he had to actually die.

Rune was showing him stuffs when he was hung on the tree not after he broke free. the scan is below:
I know you have already posted the same scan but we seem to be interepreting the scan different. The rune showed him past , present and future and what he must do (i.e let the Ragnorak occur), which he did not like and he broke free, which stand to suggest he was seeing things while hung in the tree and not after that. Its not like he can see past, present and future all the time.

He doesn't get to have that knowledge till he has apparently chocked himself long enough to actually die - the whole point of the runes to give him the ability to see the future - which he doesn't lose throughout - namely the new pair of shiney glowy magic eyes. Given his father Odin has a similar grander perception of the cosmos and his place in it (that he liked to show off to Stark in FI) - I'm not sure why this new perception is only limited to Thor while he's strung up on a tree.

Yes he tried to erase Desak who was immune to his powers thanks to the connection with the amulate, but Thor doesnt wipe him out of existence once the amulate is removed or does that to anyone else. that is why i think his abilities to remove someone out of existence is iffy.

After his defeat of Desak - Thor's run as King Thor was done. He didn't exactly need to remove anyone from existence.