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Posted by k4tzm4n (36126 posts) 9 months, 27 days ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Wonder Woman vs. Sinestro (417 votes)

Wonder Woman 53%
Sinestro 41%
Too close to call 6%

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. They start roughly 20 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire city region is on limits.
  • All characters have standard gear.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.
  • Seeing as New 52 Wonder Woman doesn't have a wealthy amount of feats, this is pre-Flashpoint Wonder Woman.
  • And yes, this is pre-Parallax Sinestro.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • My extended thoughts on the match.
  • A Viner Argument in favor of the poll's winner (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • Extra thoughts from other Comic Vine staffers.
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#51 Posted by xtremekidx (576 posts) - - Show Bio

Sinestro takes this IMO.he is crafty enough to understand WW's abilities and counter accordingly..

#52 Posted by Outside_85 (8022 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Ah thank you for the clarification.

@citizenbane: Well DonDave just did that for me. As for the Omega Beams, I assume you read that story, but in case not; Darkseid had just convincingly turned the equally durable Supergirl to ash with them. And when I say convincingly, I mean convincing both Darkseid and Superman that she had been killed by them. And really, what's more durable, a planet or Superman?

Online
#53 Posted by Lvenger (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Before @citizenbane beats me to it, Kara had been transported away before getting hit by the Omega beams. Did you not read that story because it's shown that Kara was a-OK and had been teleported just before Darkseid's Omega beams hit her. The same Omega beams have been tanked by Superman and Doomsday for the record too.

#54 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane I'm just curious, has Sinestro shown that kind of durability before? Or was that the first time? Because if it's a one time thing, some might simply attribute that to WIS.

#55 Edited by Outside_85 (8022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I am very well aware of that, which is why I wrote it like I did. But you missed my point; Both Superman and Darkseid thought it was legitimate, and who other than Darkseid knows more about what the Omega Beams are capable of?

Online
#56 Posted by Zeeguy91 (1097 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Hasn't Hal's thing always been that he's 'the greatest GL ever' and Sinestro has been incapable of accepting it's not him? As for which ring it is; wasn't there something about Hal not being 'allowed' to go anywhere Sinestro didn't want him to go?

As for the fight itself, I am going to go with Diana, who combines immense strength, immense durability and immense speed with an unbreakable lasso and a tiara that can cut through just about anything, which I am going to go with instead of Sinestro's around human stat's and his ring.

Maybe before Johns' run on GL, but Geoff made Sinestro's character at least a little bit more complex than that. Sinestro is no longer jealous of Hal's status of Green Lantern. Instead Johns cast him as Hal's former friend and mentor who believed that Hal and the Corps in general were not living up to their full potential. He was skeptical and distrustful of the Guardians, believing they were leading the Corps down the wrong path, which turned out to be right, but for different reasons. Anyway, we're getting a bit off topic, but I just wanted to let you know that there has been a shift in Sinestro's character, so that analysis of his character may not be accurate, and therefore may not have any bearing on this fight.

Anyway, onto the fight itself: this is tough because I do think Wonder Woman has the intelligence and combat skills to tangle with Sinestro, but that doesn't necessarily mean I think that'd allow her to win. Sinestro's always been adept at using his ring.

Anyway, I think you actually made this battle harder @k4tzm4n by making it Pre-Flashpoint Wonder Woman. New 52 Wonder Woman has actually been shown able to smash Hal's constructs, and I actually think that Azzarello's Wonder Woman, who is able to slip into "God Mode" would be a more formidable opponent in general.

#57 Posted by krspaceT (1462 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman, in my opinion, would have an advantage because she deals with Hal/John/Guy/Kyle/Whoever the guradians picked this week, while Sinestro, as far as I know, doesn't have to fight amazons that often or anyone with a similar fighting style

#58 Posted by Saren (25242 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Ah thank you for the clarification.

@citizenbane: Well DonDave just did that for me. As for the Omega Beams, I assume you read that story, but in case not; Darkseid had just convincingly turned the equally durable Supergirl to ash with them. And when I say convincingly, I mean convincing both Darkseid and Superman that she had been killed by them. And really, what's more durable, a planet or Superman?

I don't think you understood dondave's comment, or perhaps dondave missed a detail here and there in the issue. Here's the chain of events --- Volthoom starts to destroy the planet, causing fissures and cracks all over the terrain, until Sinestro impales him through the chest and disrupts his attack, thus saving the planet from complete destruction. Volthoom did not destroy the planet the first time around. He almost did, until Sinestro stopped him. I have provided the scans for you, so you don't have to just guess. Then, Volthoom altered the immediate past so that Sinestro did not stop him in time, thus destroying Korugar.

I assume you read that story, in which case you know that:

A) Darkseid had not turned Supergirl to ash; in fact, the Omega Beams had not even made contact with her, and (because I'm guessing you're fully aware of that and that's not actually your point)

B) If you're relying on Darkseid's and Superman's reactions to draw inferences about the strength of the Omega Beams, I'd point out something else you should know after reading that story, which is that Darkseid and Superman had only just been introduced to Supergirl and did not have any kind of complete picture about her limits and capabilities.

What's more durable, a planet or Superman? In ninety eight out of every one hundred Superman comics you could randomly pick up, the planet is.

Moderator
#59 Posted by hamlet33 (75 posts) - - Show Bio

I gotta say Wonder Woman. Sinestro COULD have a chance if he can keep her far away, but even that isnt too likely, and if Diana get close enough Sinestro's a goner. It also depends if Sinestro is a Green Lantern or Sinestro Corp, since he could be more merciless and sadistic as yellow, while as green he isn't quite as evil.

#60 Edited by Crazy_Wilhelm (64 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman's beaten Hal, and Hal's beaten Sinestro loads of times. Seems pretty tidy to me.

#61 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

If it is green lantern sinestro, WW takes slight majority.....

If it is yellow lantern sinestro, WW is going down........

#62 Posted by Lvenger (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem is whether Sinestro can beat her at range given her reactions and bracelets being able to block anything, even a combined blast from the multiple Skyfathers of Olympus. She's used to blocking things like Superman's heat vision with ease

And then of course there's the infamous 'trillion shards' feat. Though it's unlikely Wonder Woman blocked all the trillion shards, she still blocked a fair share of them. And as I note here, in the fourth scan, Diana is eventually overwhelmed and tries to outrace the shards instead. Still, I bring it up because Sinestro cannot fire at a rate like this so for Diana to have done this at range is an impressive blocking feat.

But unlike other Lanterns, Sinestro still has a chance at close quarters given that he's pierced Atrocitus and Volthoom with close quarters constructs, the latter being far more durable than Diana and the former being very durable indeed. Diana's speed and strength is certainly a big factor if she can get her lasso on him and hogtie him so he can't get out. That's a win via incapacitation. But Sinestro might be able to do the same thing Stewart did with his ring when Superman went rouge and order it to fire at anything going above the speed of sound automatically. I wouldn't say it's out of Sinestro's range given that he's done things no other GL has.

Finally, though I'm not properly advancing it as an argument and might get picked up on for this, I can't help but think of two examples from Injustice where Superman just disarmed Hal and Sinestro on separate occasions with superior speed and reactions. Diana can do the same theoretically.

#63 Posted by Lvenger (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9: It's Green Lantern Sinestro and he's equally as skilled with a green ring as he is with a yellow one.

#64 Edited by nigravirum1 (139 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone always under-estimates the Lanterns. There is an easy way that Sinestro can win this: puts her in a bubble and takes out the oxygen out of the bubble. Now whether Sinestro will think of this, is debatable...

#65 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: So, ultimately, who do you think pulls a win from this?

#66 Posted by laflux (13791 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone always under-estimates the Lanterns. There is an easy way that Sinestro can win this: puts her in a bubble and takes out the oxygen out of the bubble. Now whether Sinestro will think of this, is debatable...

Wonder Woman Flies in Space.

#67 Posted by Lvenger (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

@hart7668: I'm still deciding on that I'm afraid. It's close though, closer than people think. Sinestro has durability, ranged versatility and ultimately defense going for him but Diana has strength, speed and reactions in her corner. It's a tough call. I need some more time to think on this. Then I'll try and make an argument for who I think wins.

#68 Posted by Outside_85 (8022 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think you understood dondave's comment, or perhaps dondave missed a detail here and there in the issue. Here's the chain of events --- Volthoom starts to destroy the planet, causing fissures and cracks all over the terrain, until Sinestro impales him through the chest and disrupts his attack, thus saving the planet from complete destruction. Volthoom did not destroy the planet the first time around. He almost did, until Sinestro stopped him. I have provided the scans for you, so you don't have to just guess. 1) Then, Volthoom altered the immediate past so that Sinestro did not stop him in time, thus destroying Korugar.

I assume you read that story, in which case you know that:

A) Darkseid had not turned Supergirl to ash; in fact, the Omega Beams had not even made contact with her, and (because I'm guessing you're fully aware of that and that's not actually your point)

B) If you're relying on Darkseid's and Superman's reactions to draw inferences about the strength of the Omega Beams, I'd point out something else you should know after reading that story, which is that Darkseid and Superman had only just been introduced to Supergirl and did not have any kind of complete picture about her limits and capabilities.

2) What's more durable, a planet or Superman? In ninety eight out of every one hundred Superman comics you could randomly pick up, the planet is.

1) Which is my point, Volthoom changed time, if he can change it so Sinestro doesnt save a handful of people, he could change it so Sinestro didn't survive, unless you want me to think a Power Ring also grants you immunity to time alterations?

A) You are still missing the point; Darkseid thought it was real, Superman had to think it was real as well, ergo the chance is greater than not that they can in fact kill him. If he doesn't just decides to send him somewhen else like he did Batman.

B) They had her locked up in the Fortress of Solitude for nearly a month and Batman was already assuming she was as powerful as Clark, further demonstrated when Superman had to pull out the kryptonite ring in order to beat her in a fashion that didn't hospitalize her.

2) Really now? Why is that it's always the planet that has marks and Superman never has a scratch? Puls you have Prime that zooms through them like they were hot cheese, and who kills Lanters by the truckload.

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#69 Posted by RazzaTazz (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman might have the best collection of power items in the DC Universe. And while Sinestro is skilled with the power ring, she is equally ingenious with her combat ability and powers. Even without powers she is a hand to hand combatant at par with Batman, and add in the super abilities and she stands almost equal to Superman. I suppose its not really relevant to the discussion, but it is likely that her willpower is even stronger than Sinestro, as she held out against death at the hands of Neron for an unexpectedly long time. What this comes down to is that Wonder Woman only needs to get the lasso around any part of his body and he is done.

Moderator
#70 Posted by doombot890 (209 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted for Sinestro but I do believe it is a tough call. Wonder Woman has shown time and time again to be Fearless and she has more than enough Willpower to overcome any obstacle. I'd love to see this actual play out sometime in the new 52

#71 Edited by Saren (25242 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

I don't think you understood dondave's comment, or perhaps dondave missed a detail here and there in the issue. Here's the chain of events --- Volthoom starts to destroy the planet, causing fissures and cracks all over the terrain, until Sinestro impales him through the chest and disrupts his attack, thus saving the planet from complete destruction. Volthoom did not destroy the planet the first time around. He almost did, until Sinestro stopped him. I have provided the scans for you, so you don't have to just guess. 1) Then, Volthoom altered the immediate past so that Sinestro did not stop him in time, thus destroying Korugar.

I assume you read that story, in which case you know that:

A) Darkseid had not turned Supergirl to ash; in fact, the Omega Beams had not even made contact with her, and (because I'm guessing you're fully aware of that and that's not actually your point)

B) If you're relying on Darkseid's and Superman's reactions to draw inferences about the strength of the Omega Beams, I'd point out something else you should know after reading that story, which is that Darkseid and Superman had only just been introduced to Supergirl and did not have any kind of complete picture about her limits and capabilities.

2) What's more durable, a planet or Superman? In ninety eight out of every one hundred Superman comics you could randomly pick up, the planet is.

1) Which is my point, Volthoom changed time, if he can change it so Sinestro doesnt save a handful of people, he could change it so Sinestro didn't survive, unless you want me to think a Power Ring also grants you immunity to time alterations?

A) You are still missing the point; Darkseid thought it was real, Superman had to think it was real as well, ergo the chance is greater than not that they can in fact kill him. If he doesn't just decides to send him somewhen else like he did Batman.

B) They had her locked up in the Fortress of Solitude for nearly a month and Batman was already assuming she was as powerful as Clark, further demonstrated when Superman had to pull out the kryptonite ring in order to beat her in a fashion that didn't hospitalize her.

2) Really now? Why is that it's always the planet that has marks and Superman never has a scratch? Puls you have Prime that zooms through them like they were hot cheese, and who kills Lanters by the truckload.

Your point makes no sense whatsoever. Sinestro's survival was contingent upon the durability that the ring granted him, not any resistance to time alterations. To kill Sinestro, Volthoom would have had to turn back time so far that Sinestro never received his ring, and he was never capable of making alterations stretching back decades apart from the fantasy-nightmares that he put the other Lanterns in. Volthoom simply didn't care if Sinestro lived or died. These are hardly groundbreaking behavioral tendencies for supervillains. Really, I could just ask you to provide concrete proof in the form of a statement no matter how tiny from anywhere in a comic book or interview, and that would end this particular debate right then and there because you know there's nothing you could produce to that effect.

Feels like nitpicking, but yes, rings have protected Lanterns against time effect before. Back in the days when Action Comics was weekly for a while, Hal used to keep himself in one timeframe while everything in a certain radius around him was in another timeframe, frozen still.

Really? You're arguing that Darkseid thought it was real, so it must be real? Because Darkseid's kind of the go-to guy on the Omega Beams? New Gods #10. Darkseid fires the Omega Beams at Superman to kill him, they fail to kill Superman, and Darkseid literally states "No one has ever fought my Omega Beams. Not even Orion." Characters overestimate and underestimate other characters all the time. Again, this is not groundbreaking territory for supervillains.

Am I supposed to value Batman's assumption that she was as powerful as Clark over instances like the fight in War of the Supermen where Clark chumped her without even trying? Or the time in the early issues of Supergirl volume 5, written by none other than the same writer who wrote the same arc of Superman/Batman that you're quoting, where Clark points out plainly and explicitly that no matter what Kara or anyone else thinks of her capabilities, he could take her down every single time if he had to?

Superman gets plenty of scratches. The next time Toyman builds an oversized teddy bear that breaks Clark's jaw, ask yourself if said mammalian monstrosity is capable of doing any kind of damage to an entire planet. Prime is considerably stronger, faster and tougher than Clark, and he has also casually sliced through Clark's flesh like it was hot cheese. Additionally, the only time Prime ever destroyed a planet was when he was packing the Oan energy amp.

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#72 Posted by WhineHaus (80 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to go with Wonder Woman. Sinestro seems more powerful, but Diana seems stronger and more skilled in combat. I'd think that Sinestro would begin the battle pretty ruthlessly, laying a good hurt down on Diana, but her stamina and physical skill would eventually trump Sinestro. Wonder Woman possesses a dangerous warrior's spirit that'd surely be ignited in this battle.

#73 Posted by WhineHaus (80 posts) - - Show Bio

Just a couple pre-52 scans that put Wonder Woman's skill into perspective. Her fight versus Sinestro will by no means be a walk in the park, but I think she'll be the eventual winner.

This is the type of berserker rage I'd picture Diana going into. "The loss of control. Touching something primal and ancient. Something levels beneath the training in diplomacy, in manners, and all trappings of civilization.":

And here, versus Procanon Kaa, Diana shows her knowledge of combating the power of GL rings. I understand that he's not as powerful as Sinestro, but it's worthwhile to note she's developed a contingency plan versus Green Lanterns. Also, the battle demonstrates her durability and stamina:

#74 Posted by Lvenger (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

Just a couple pre-52 scans that put Wonder Woman's skill into perspective. Her fight versus Sinestro will by no means be a walk in the park, but I think she'll be the eventual winner.

This is the type of berserker rage I'd picture Diana going into. "The loss of control. Touching something primal and ancient. Something levels beneath the training in diplomacy, in manners, and all trappings of civilization.":

And here, versus Procanon Kaa, Diana shows her knowledge of combating the power of GL rings. I understand that he's not as powerful as Sinestro, but it's worthwhile to note she's developed a contingency plan versus Green Lanterns. Also, the battle demonstrates her durability and stamina:

The first set of scans are of a pi$$ed/morals off Diana going practically all out to beat the creature that stomped her in their first round. She's not likely to lose it against Sinestro in this way despite the knowledge he's a villain after a fashion.

And with the second ones, her contingencies are not as likely to work with as skilled and experienced a Lantern as Sinestro. There were story circumstances at play too. And you forget the fact that a rookie/inexperienced/weaker Lantern drew blood from Diana. Imagine what Sinestro could do.

And for the record, I'm still undecided on the match's outcome. Still playing Devil's advocate to somehow make up my mind.

#75 Posted by Lvenger (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that I think about it, how many times has Sinestro used a Green ring in canon comics? Secret Origin, Emerald Dawn, Green Lantern #67 - War of the Green Lanterns, Part Ten and most of Johns' New 52 Green Lantern run along with some guest appearances in New Guardians come to mind but aside from that, he doesn't have the variety of feats Diana has in her Pre Flashpoint run. It's a concern I have.

@citizenbane Sorry to call you out specifically Bane as I know how busy you are but are there any other times Sinestro has used a Green Ring in the Pre Flashpoint universe?

#76 Posted by simonchan (98 posts) - - Show Bio

keep in mind that wonder woman is almost as strong as superman. and pretty fast. pre or post 52, she is ruthless when it comes to a fight. the only major difference is the need to kill. remember knockout counts as a win. (kapow*)

#77 Posted by BWANASIMBA (350 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem with this fight is WW is a massively inconsistent character. One issue she's at a godlike level and just under Superman and others of similar level, the next she's having trouble with street level characters. Granted GLs are also inconsistent, going anywhere from non-jobber Herald of Galactus level to DC's favorite whipping boys. Based on highest levels feats and overall consistency I'd say Sinestro stomps her with planet destroying power.

#78 Posted by IronFanofSteelofThunder (31 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_man: What issue was that and who won?

#79 Posted by Outside_85 (8022 posts) - - Show Bio

Your point makes no sense whatsoever. Sinestro's survival was contingent upon the durability that the ring granted him, not any resistance to time alterations. To kill Sinestro, Volthoom would have had to turn back time so far that Sinestro never received his ring, and he was never capable of making alterations stretching back decades apart from the fantasy-nightmares that he put the other Lanterns in. Volthoom simply didn't care if Sinestro lived or died. These are hardly groundbreaking behavioral tendencies for supervillains. Really, I could just ask you to provide concrete proof in the form of a statement no matter how tiny from anywhere in a comic book or interview, and that would end this particular debate right then and there because you know there's nothing you could produce to that effect.

Feels like nitpicking, but yes, rings have protected Lanterns against time effect before. Back in the days when Action Comics was weekly for a while, Hal used to keep himself in one timeframe while everything in a certain radius around him was in another timeframe, frozen still.

Really? You're arguing that Darkseid thought it was real, so it must be real? Because Darkseid's kind of the go-to guy on the Omega Beams? New Gods #10. Darkseid fires the Omega Beams at Superman to kill him, they fail to kill Superman, and Darkseid literally states "No one has ever fought my Omega Beams. Not even Orion." Characters overestimate and underestimate other characters all the time. Again, this is not groundbreaking territory for supervillains.

Am I supposed to value Batman's assumption that she was as powerful as Clark over instances like the fight in War of the Supermen where Clark chumped her without even trying? Or the time in the early issues of Supergirl volume 5, written by none other than the same writer who wrote the same arc of Superman/Batman that you're quoting, where Clark points out plainly and explicitly that no matter what Kara or anyone else thinks of her capabilities, he could take her down every single time if he had to?

Superman gets plenty of scratches. The next time Toyman builds an oversized teddy bear that breaks Clark's jaw, ask yourself if said mammalian monstrosity is capable of doing any kind of damage to an entire planet. Prime is considerably stronger, faster and tougher than Clark, and he has also casually sliced through Clark's flesh like it was hot cheese. Additionally, the only time Prime ever destroyed a planet was when he was packing the Oan energy amp.

You're still missing the damn point; Sinestro only survived because Volthoom allowed it.

Yeah and when Action was weekly, it was called the Silver Age where the ring could also make Kryptonite and when Bizzaro could punch Superman back to the age of dinosaurs.

And wasn't New Gods before COIE?

If I am not mistaken, Superman is talking to Batman and is basically just defending his manhood the same way he had to when Diana claimed she could beat him through skill and Batman agreed with her.

Even before the energy amp, Prime was the one that pushed Thanagar out of orbit to trigger the war with Rann. And just two weeks ago we saw Ultraman push the moon into stationary orbit to block the sun. And no, at base he's not that much more powerful than Clark that have managed to stalemate him on his own. The main difference is that Prime never holds back.

Online
#80 Posted by nigravirum1 (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: She can hold her breath for only a couple minutes in space, but she cannot breathe in space and I challenge you to find me an issue where she does BREATHE in space

#81 Posted by lowlaville (3518 posts) - - Show Bio

If this is pre-parrelex Sinestro, Wonder Woman easily has it. Because if thats not the case, then.

#82 Posted by dondave (33593 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Now that I think about it, how many times has Sinestro used a Green ring in canon comics? Secret Origin, Emerald Dawn, Green Lantern #67 - War of the Green Lanterns, Part Ten and most of Johns' New 52 Green Lantern run along with some guest appearances in New Guardians come to mind but aside from that, he doesn't have the variety of feats Diana has in her Pre Flashpoint run. It's a concern I have.

@citizenbane Sorry to call you out specifically Bane as I know how busy you are but are there any other times Sinestro has used a Green Ring in the Pre Flashpoint universe?

He only really used it at the end of War of the Green Lantern's that why I felt Gregg should have allowed us to use his Sinestro Lantern feats as well.

#83 Posted by dondave (33593 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

Your point makes no sense whatsoever. Sinestro's survival was contingent upon the durability that the ring granted him, not any resistance to time alterations. To kill Sinestro, Volthoom would have had to turn back time so far that Sinestro never received his ring, and he was never capable of making alterations stretching back decades apart from the fantasy-nightmares that he put the other Lanterns in. Volthoom simply didn't care if Sinestro lived or died. These are hardly groundbreaking behavioral tendencies for supervillains. Really, I could just ask you to provide concrete proof in the form of a statement no matter how tiny from anywhere in a comic book or interview, and that would end this particular debate right then and there because you know there's nothing you could produce to that effect.

Feels like nitpicking, but yes, rings have protected Lanterns against time effect before. Back in the days when Action Comics was weekly for a while, Hal used to keep himself in one timeframe while everything in a certain radius around him was in another timeframe, frozen still.

Really? You're arguing that Darkseid thought it was real, so it must be real? Because Darkseid's kind of the go-to guy on the Omega Beams? New Gods #10. Darkseid fires the Omega Beams at Superman to kill him, they fail to kill Superman, and Darkseid literally states "No one has ever fought my Omega Beams. Not even Orion." Characters overestimate and underestimate other characters all the time. Again, this is not groundbreaking territory for supervillains.

Am I supposed to value Batman's assumption that she was as powerful as Clark over instances like the fight in War of the Supermen where Clark chumped her without even trying? Or the time in the early issues of Supergirl volume 5, written by none other than the same writer who wrote the same arc of Superman/Batman that you're quoting, where Clark points out plainly and explicitly that no matter what Kara or anyone else thinks of her capabilities, he could take her down every single time if he had to?

Superman gets plenty of scratches. The next time Toyman builds an oversized teddy bear that breaks Clark's jaw, ask yourself if said mammalian monstrosity is capable of doing any kind of damage to an entire planet. Prime is considerably stronger, faster and tougher than Clark, and he has also casually sliced through Clark's flesh like it was hot cheese. Additionally, the only time Prime ever destroyed a planet was when he was packing the Oan energy amp.

You're still missing the damn point; Sinestro only survived because Volthoom allowed it.

Yeah and when Action was weekly, it was called the Silver Age where the ring could also make Kryptonite and when Bizzaro could punch Superman back to the age of dinosaurs.

And wasn't New Gods before COIE?

If I am not mistaken, Superman is talking to Batman and is basically just defending his manhood the same way he had to when Diana claimed she could beat him through skill and Batman agreed with her.

Even before the energy amp, Prime was the one that pushed Thanagar out of orbit to trigger the war with Rann. And just two weeks ago we saw Ultraman push the moon into stationary orbit to block the sun. And no, at base he's not that much more powerful than Clark that have managed to stalemate him on his own. The main difference is that Prime never holds back.

IIRC It was after COIE and Lantern's can still make Kryptonite

#84 Posted by DEGRAAF (7869 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Yeah i know its not supposed to be on New 52 WW but to say its Pre 52 WW bc the new version doesnt have enough feats just seems wrong.

@citizenbane: Thank you for this information

I still haven't made a vote yet

#85 Posted by mettlekm (417 posts) - - Show Bio

WW's powers seem to fluctuate more than any other super hero...

#86 Edited by Outside_85 (8022 posts) - - Show Bio
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#87 Posted by Jmarshmallow (3286 posts) - - Show Bio
#88 Posted by dondave (33593 posts) - - Show Bio
#89 Posted by Outside_85 (8022 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Doesnt seem like it's working.

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#90 Posted by dondave (33593 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Doesnt seem like it's working.

He didn't actually use it, he was far too away for it too work, he's at the back of the group with Batman and Flash.

#91 Posted by SoA (4678 posts) - - Show Bio

if it was any other GL , WW would be a close fight if not decimate. but seeing as this is sinestro ....

#92 Edited by RulerOfThisUniverse (5977 posts) - - Show Bio

It'd be close, but I'm going for Wonder Woman.

#93 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@trauma said:

Opinion: Wonder Woman

Reason: Wonder Woman has always been a crafty brute. She tends to punch first and talk later. But make no mistake she is a soldier. The factors that give her the win are within the setting. They are only twenty feet apart and in an unpopulated city with tons of cover. She has no civilians to worry about. This in my opinion would give her the ability to be more destructive. She could use the cover to block the several constructs that Sinestro would try to get off. But best of all she is only twenty feet away. With her super speed and reflexes, making her way to Sinestro should be fairly easy with cover. Then its just a matter of delivering a knockout blow. I just think the setting works against him here and the brutish nature of Wonder Woman will prevail.

wonder woman doesn't punch first and talk later,that is the horrible version bout of character that johns is writting.

#94 Posted by _Genesis_ (294 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Sinestro

#95 Edited by Trauma (5889 posts) - - Show Bio
#96 Posted by spiderbuck (2436 posts) - - Show Bio

Sinestro.

#97 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem with this fight is WW is a massively inconsistent character. One issue she's at a godlike level and just under Superman and others of similar level, the next she's having trouble with street level characters. Granted GLs are also inconsistent, going anywhere from non-jobber Herald of Galactus level to DC's favorite whipping boys. Based on highest levels feats and overall consistency I'd say Sinestro stomps her with planet destroying power.

every character has inconsistent moments,superman,hulk and other bricks have had trouble with street level characters too,wonder woman is consistent most of the time,she is portrayed as super fast,super durable and super strong most of the time.

#98 Posted by Octeclops (4 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_man: I voted for Sinestro but after seeing that I'm not so sure now.

#99 Edited by WhineHaus (80 posts) - - Show Bio
@lvenger said:

The first set of scans are a pi$$ed/morals off Diana going practically all out to beat the creature that stomped her in their first round. She's not likely to lose it against Sinestro in this way despite the knowledge he's a villain after a fashion.

And with the second ones, her contingencies are not as likely to work with as skilled and experienced a Lantern as Sinestro. There were story circumstances at play too. And you forget the fact that a rookie/inexperienced/weaker Lantern drew blood from Diana. Imagine what Sinestro could do.

And for the record, I'm still undecided on the match's outcome. Still playing Devil's advocate to somehow make up my mind.

Of course! I appreciate the counterpoint. I included the berserker-Diana scans just to show her capabilities when her anger piques. That being said, I'm not sure it's safe to say that Diana wouldn't go all out against Sinestro. It would seem to me that survival instincts --- brought about by a looming defeat and/or death --- would bring about such a rage. I'm not convinced Sinestro could defeat an enraged Wonder Woman.

I don't doubt Sinestro's experience or ability so much as I credit Diana's experience and martial ability. Despite the power of her foe, she learns combat techniques as she's fighting them (as shown against her fight with Procanon Kaa). She learns their weakness and vulnerabilities, thereby exploiting them for personal victory. Sinestro's power and experience is undeniable, but it won't by any means diminish Diana's ability to learn on the spot.

Surely, neither Sinestro nor Wonder Woman will come out unscathed. I just think Diana will get the best of him. The woman fights until she dies, and she does so with an unbreakable warrior's spirit. For me, that will be the deciding factor here.

#100 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (11458 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@ancient_0f_days Get in here mate, this week's Viner match up is Pre Flashpoint Wonder Woman vs Sinestro! You're the perfect guy to represent Diana in this match.

Sorry I'm late, time to start.

Sinestro is without a doubt more powerful than Wonder Woman, however she has enough speed to overtake and overwhelm him .....

Sinestro is also more durable due to his ring's shields, but this is not to say that Wonder Woman couldn't take a hit from him or that her durability is low, especially due to the magical nature of her Aegis Bracers...

Bracers feat

She's strong enough to fight evenly with heavy other JLA heavy hitters such as Superman, Captain Marvel, Power Girl, etc ....

Wonder Woman vs Captain Marvel (War of the Gods # 1)

Wonder Woman vs Power Girl

(Wonder Woman v2 # 175 and 176)

Wonder Woman vs Superman (Woman v2 # 219)

She's fought green lanterns in the past as others have posted as well as a mock fight with Kyle Rayner and a short battle with a clone of Sinestro although that issue isn't the most reliable since Wonder Woman couldn't even hold up a bridge for whatever reason...the writers were obviously on that Azzarello sh*t, making her weak as hell for no reason.

Anyway, although I cannot prove that she can break all his constructs or even his body shields, I can prove that he cannot significantly harm her cus of her healing factor or get past her bracers defenses due to her speed.

That's it for now until someone wants to add more or counter me.