Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Superior Spider-Man/Hobgoblin (Phil) vs. Wolverine/Omega Red

SpOck has webbing designed to hold people with Superhuman Strength (Impact webbing IIRC). Omega Red is KO'able (is that even a word?) as he was once brought down by a Terminal Velocity at Max Teledrop from Nightcrawler. Omega Red also doesn't always release his spores instantaneously. So if SpOck and Uric go in hard and fast, they have the ability to take him down (and seeing a Wolverine has dodged his coils, and how Spider-Man regularly dodged Doc Ock's, which have impressive speed feats to boot as well as the speed of Uric's glider), I think its a possibility. However, any thing beyond hit and run attacks is a very bad idea.

I don't think the Death Spores work at anything beyond relatively close range either. IIRC correctly, SpOck's lenses let him gauge people's powers, so I thing he would know not to get to close. And once that Knowledge is relayed to Hobgoblin, he would be effortlessly able to do so. I don't think the lunatic laugh will take down Logan, but it would probably slow him down temporarily, allowing both Uric and SpOck to monopolize.

As for SpOck against Wolverine, I think that they hold a distinct advantage. Yes Wolverine holds an advantage up close, and Spider-Man takes a majority over Wolverine due to Incap, either via Trapping or BFR, and SpOck has shown a tendency to fight up close, rather than web enemies, but 1 , he's had experience fighting Logan before, so is more likely to go via incap. Second of all, I think SpOck has a better chance fighting in up close than say Peter. His Iron-Spider style legs give him more range, and he has claws himself. He won't win in a brawl, but I think those factors give enough about him to last until he changes tactics.

Overall, I give it to the Spider Team. I think that the Healing team has a more distinct advantage up close than the Spider Team has at range, the Spider-Team has the means to get themselves out of the healing teams comfort zone, while the same can't be said for the other team. Logan can compete with Spider-Man in combat Speed, but in terms of Movement Speed, three dimensional movement and avoidance, he is a long way behind. Likewise goes for Omega Red, and as has been pointed out before many times Uric can fly via the Glider.

Also, Omega Red and Wolverine have been put in situations where they had common enemies (they were both kidnapped by sentinel wielding mooks, along with Ptior and Kurt). They still ended up trying to kill one another. So I think that they going to be working together with less synergy, even when compared to SpOck and Uric.

Oh look, I've made a thread for the segment!

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/comic-vine-battle-of-the-week-discussion-thread-1505135/#0

Interesting to see the different arguments thrown around on each side.

spidey have great experiencie fighting an enemy with four tentacles! and if he have doc ock mind, wolverine`s team is crushed

And to think it's only Monday :D

If comicvine has taught me anything, its that if you put Wolverine and Spider-Man on different teams in a battle, it will generate interest.

@laflux: Of course, of course.

Very well put=)

I think some people voting for Canuckle-Red are forgetting an important factor in the scenario. EXPLOSIONS. Healing factors and resilience aside explosions from pumpkin bombs add a lot of things to consider outside of initial splash damage. There's concussive force for knockback, concussions that the brain can't recover from instantaneously, and shrapnel causing tears to muscle and ligaments that eventually add up to a disable that requires a healing cool down. Phil doesn't even care about collateral damage so he would go nuts with the bombardments. Add the fact that they'll need to dodge impact webbing as Superior Spidey switches to a thermal vision mode to target them through the debris. And the longer it takes for Omega Red and Logan to counter attack the more spider bots begin converging on the battlefield by the dozen. That means laser traps, force fields, and total visual coverage of the area become options as the fight goes on.

I don't see why cowardice should be a factor in this scenario. Just because Phil has shown to be smart enough to run away when he needs to doesn't mean he doesn't know how to create an opportunity to take down an opponent when he needs to. He's a total glass cannon but that still makes him dangerous. Anyone trying to live a civilian life while moon lighting as a super villain has guts in my book. Just imagine that Phil can't get away without knocking the other two out by any means necessary.

I think people are taking Wolverine's healing factor a little too far, sure if the goal was to kill Wolverine then that would be near impossible for the two Spidey characters, however a win can occur from taking Wolverine out of the fight. Regular Spider-man has done this to Wolverine before simply webbing him up, and leaving him suspended in the air. Which is within the rules of this little contest. If SpOck was smart, he'd perform a similar tactic, and then take out Omega Red, if he needed too, he could have Hobgoblin chill out, and torment wolverine whenever he'd try to escape, not to mention throwing a few bombs towards Red's direction. I say the Spiders would have this in the bag, outside of plot hax scenarios.

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@bloodynights said:

I think people are taking Wolverine's healing factor a little too far, sure if the goal was to kill Wolverine then that would be near impossible for the two Spidey characters, however a win can occur from taking Wolverine out of the fight. Regular Spider-man has done this to Wolverine before simply webbing him up, and leaving him suspended in the air. Which is within the rules of this little contest. If SpOck was smart, he'd perform a similar tactic, and then take out Omega Red, if he needed too, he could have Hobgoblin chill out, and torment wolverine whenever he'd try to escape, not to mention throwing a few bombs towards Red's direction. I say the Spiders would have this in the bag, outside of plot hax scenarios.

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Out of context scan mate. Wolverine cut himself from the webs immediately after that moment.

@wolverine08:

Grrr, on Comicvine, for messing up my post, anyways...I'll do a shorter version of my reply. I never said Wolverine couldn't get free, as I said Hobgoblin could watch over him, using bombs, sonics, screams etc. To keep him from doing too much, and more than likely SpOck would do a better webbing job, seeing as Parker wouldn't want to keep Wolverine stranded there forever. And he didn't immediately get free either, it clearly shows that Spidey had enough time to not only grab his target but swing away as well. It isn't out of context at all.

I think at the end of the day, Phill doesn't have what it takes to fight either one from team #2. SpOck is pretty badass, but ultimately lacks Pete's heart and resolve, and when you fight with not one, but two members of the Weapon X program, Cocky SpOck and half-assed Goblin ain't gonna cut it, even with all that flamboyant tech. I even think Peter and Norman would be better suited for surviving this scenario even if they're far outmatched technology-wise with their modern counterparts, they do have the heart and viciousness SpOck and Urlich lack. So under this circumstances it would be a hell of a fight, but Phill wouldn't last and Spock won't be able to handle both.

Spock is too fast, agile, and ruthless for them to hit. He will prolly have some crazy devices on him, not to mention Hobgoblin's sonic laugh.

Have we ever had a DC only battle yet?

Sinestro vs. Wonder Woman.

In the event that's followed by a "but Marvel has had..."

Well, it's because I know street level characters best and -- in my opinion -- Marvel has a great variety of characters who are easy to match in relatively balanced fights on that level. DC has a lot of characters I want to use, but many are way more powerful and therefore it's taking me longer to get around to them because I'm taking my time to assure they're properly matched or at least even enough to make it fun for speculation. Not to mention I'm trying to avoid cliche/generic matches that would make the thread implode due to heated wars.

@k4tzm4n: Fair enough.

This is how I see it going down: Hobgoblin swiftly attacks Omega Red and leads him on a wild goose chase, while SpOck takes Wolverine down easily, just like he did before. Hobgoblin tries to slow OR down, but eventually runs out of tools, tries his sonics, and fails, then gets taken down by OR. SpOck and OR go at it, and SpOck eventually wins, with better tech, prep, and is less tired from the fight.

I also made the following thread if people want to make suggestions.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/comic-vine-battle-of-the-week-discussion-thread-1505135/#2

I think Wolvie and Omega have this...experienced fighters from the old Weapon X days and all.

Yeah, throwing a sucker punch first. Then fighting a Wolverine with no claws out and was trying to get on with the mission.

Well he also brushes him off in Secret Wars while fighting all the X-Men at once. I feel like it's been shown on multiple occasions that Spidey('s body) is stronger and faster than Wolverine it's just that Logan's more resilient overall. If he doesn't use claws against Spider-Man then that's a knock against him. It gives him a major handicap since this is an in character fight.

@bloodynights:

The scan immediately after that one had him breaking out. The scan was out of context.

Team 1 SpOck is smarter then Wolverine

I don't understand why people are placing so much faith in Wolverine's healing factor. Peter Parker has consistently been shown as far stronger than Wolverine, capable of knocking him out with a single strike. SpOck, who is far more ruthless and cunning, as well as willing to use deadly technology and methods, could easily incapacitate Wolverine. In addition, Hobgoblin's sonic cry is incredibly effective and could shut both Logan and Omega Red down before the battle even started, with SpOck already having been shown as capable of protecting himself from this scream. Hobgoblin has even more of an advantage as he starts in the air; if his scream doesn't work, he can easily rain down his deadly arsenal on the disoriented opponents. Hobgoblin and SpOck, with their sheer versatility and gadgetry as well as physical advantage should take this rather handily.

Quick Question!:
If Omega Red has his death pheromone, and the other team has no prep-time. Wouldn't this be a pretty harsh advantage to team Omegarine or WolveRed?

I'm going to go with Wolvie and Red. Not only do they both healing have factors which is a great advantage, but Red also has his tendrils and death spores, so he's a threat at both long and close range.

This becomes an issue of range vs melee. If Hobby and SpOck can maintain distance and be patient, they can win this. If Wolverine and Red get them and keep them up close, then they win. Given SpOck's personality his less than stellar record of fighting higher skilled/powered individuals like Wolverine, I would wager him going after Red first. SpOck has no knowledge of Red, though, so he'll do his typical reliance on spider-prowess to win the day for him. Problem is, Red can soak huge damage and has plenty of tricks. I think the spores and strength of his tentacles would catch SpOck off guard, as well as his ability to take ridiculous amounts of damage.

This leaves Phil to go at Wolverine, and his sonic laugh, glider, and goblin toys give him plenty to work with to give Wolverine a hard time. But, without any sort of strength or speed enhancements, or any real tactical intelligence (pretty much all the things that makes Green Goblin dangerous) I doubt he can put Wolverine down for the count. He'd open with his scream, likely, which would probably stun Wolverine (more so due to the surprise of it) and he'd saturate the area with pumpkin bombs. This is nothing that Wolverine can't heal through, though, and do so quickly. Wolverine has shown the ability to fight through incredible pain, such as blows and thunderclaps from the Hulk. When Phil runs out of toys, then what? His flame sword? He can certainly do fly-by attacks with that but again, it will not keep Wolverine down. His glider is also not outside the realm of speed that Wolverine can tag, and timing an incoming swipe is absolutely something that can happen.

While that goes on, we go back to SpOck growing ever more frustrated he can't put Red down. If there is one thing SpOck lacks it is Peter's resolve. The man has fought through more dire situations and bad spots than almost anyone except for maybe Batman. He also has yet to show Peter's improvisational abilities against tough opponents. I think his desire for the easy win will shine through, and he'd abandon the fight. That would leave Phil all by his lonesome.

Now, I understand that Red and Logan have no love for each other, but being realistic neither of them backs down an inch. They don't run, they don't get frustrated and turn when a fight is hard. Both love the fight, and love to show they are better than their opponent. They are warriors, through and through, SpOck is not. He would do the same here he did against Boomerang and his new "Sinister Six". And they were, sadly to say, a bunch of chumps. Wolverine and Omega Red are not.

I give this fight majority to Wolverine and Omega Red. Poor Phil...

Team spider-man.

Still undecided so far based on what I've seen. I do rate Spidey as being able to take a slight majority over Logan in a fight but SpOck lacks Peter's resolve or desire to play fair when he's losing. He may just let Phil go in without protecting him really. This could give him a chance to escape and the other team the win. But I'm still uncertain on that part of the fight. There are a few variables in its outcome I have yet to decide on.

will Spock have access to his little spider bots?

I feel like goblin is just too weak of a partner.
Don't Wolverine and Red have experience working together?
Aside from that they just have better teamwork skillz..

No, this isn't his version of Manhattan. It's always a neutral city so neither has a home field advantage.

OK I've decided that Phil is the weak link in Team 1 since his sonic can be neutralised by both team members. With his main advantage out the way, he doesn't have much hope against Logan or Red. SpOck might beat one of them in his own but his unwillingness to work properly with Phil along with his arrogant mindset should lead to his downfall.

No one in this fight likes anyone else but that doesn't mean coordination is out of the question. Have people forgotten that Ock has experience ordering super villains around as lackeys? If Superior Team-Up is any indication he plans on doing it again. Likewise Phil is use to taking commands from people obviously more intelligent than himself i.e. Kingsley, Fisk, and Goblin King. I'm not saying that the two of them should go to dinner and a movie it's just that a coordinated attack would come more naturally to them than it would for Team 2. I still don't see how Team 2 is suppose to close the distance other than tanking a huge variety of damage types. The 6 feet range for Omega Red's tentacles is impressive but could he make that distance before he gets incapacitated?

Healing factors and Omega Red's Death spores make this battle go to Wolverine and Omega Red. Where SpOCk and Hobgoblin have the advantage in aerial combat, the death spores will be the main factor that gives Wolverine and Omega Red the win.

Let's start with Team , they1 have the advantage in tech and brains mainly thanks to SpOck, and Ulrich has his lunatic laugh which would do some damage to Logan especially with his heightened senses. They also have the range advantage in Otto's webbing and Phil's pumpkin bombs and glider. If used wisely they would take an easy win over team brawl and bash. The main advantage in this fight for them would probably be the team work. While SpOck and Hobgoblin may not get along they would work a lot better as a team than Wolverine and Omega Red would.

Team 2 IMO is a lot more brutal, they have the advantage as far as durability goes and Wolverine and the Russian serial killer. Logan with his adamantium skeleton/claws and healing factor and Omega Red with his own hf and carbonadium tendrils can not only take a beating but dish beatings out with the best of them. I'll also give Team 2 the stamina advantage as Wolverine and Arkady have fought each other for over 18 hours.

I see this fight going on for a long time and the longer it drags on the more likely team healing factor would take the win, Phil has the immediate advantage over Logan with the scream but it won't keep him down, neither will those pumpkin bombs. Logan has healed from way worse and has the resilience and pain tolerance to keep him in the game through out Hobgobs attacks. Eventually Phil is gonna swoop in and take a swing with his flaming sword and if he gets in close wolverine is both fast enough and tactical enough to take Hobgoblin out of the air and finish him off on an even playing field. That was assuming Phil goes for Wolvie first which he should because Arkady would be a more difficult fight for him than Logan would.

SpOck vs Omega Red...........between the mess of webs, death spores, and tentacles I don't see Spiderman doing anything to permanently keep Arkady down for the count. Otto would stay in the fight for some time but without help OR would just keep healing and coming back. Arkady's reflexes and stamina are nothing to sleep on either.

SpOck vs Logan.......This would be Otto's best chance at a victory, but Honestly IMO Logan wins this match up as well. SpOck would throw bone crushing punches and shoot enough webs to make Logan look silly. With that said it still wouldn't be enough. Logan is calculating and fast enough to disappear and pop up behind Nightcrawler right after he teleported in the danger room. Catching SpOck by surprise is not too far fetched to think about. At the end of the day when it is Spidey vs Wolvie, Wolvie just needs one clen blow.

Verdict: Wolverine and Omega Red FTW!!!

Epilogue: Wolverine and Omega Red fight for 18 hours!!!!

Well, we know how that one ends.

RIP Wolverine.

One day left for debating/voting.