Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Sabretooth vs. Luther Strode

Im incline to vote Victor based on Victor not only having more overall combat experience, but more experience fighting other supers who are sometimes stronger and faster than himself and defeating them. Luther does have a Pre-cog like ability though its unclear how skilled he is at using it. Also it has failed to work on a more skilled fighter such as The Liberian.

I don't think there should be any argument for speed not being a huge factor for Luther Strode winning this match. Even if someone can argue that Creed can move and fight at very high level of speeds, he will never come close to matching Jack the Ripper's insane speeds. Jack the Ripper was so fast, he was able to mortally wound an entire mall's worth of people in the time it took Luther Strode to make his way to the mall. This was literally thousands of people. He had such control over this brutal act, that he was able to leave everyone in the mall suffering and dying, without actually killing any of them.

Even with Jack's insane speed, Luther Strode could still counter it with his heightened senses, precog, and superhuman reaction times. I don't see Victor Creed having the fighting speed to really get a good enough shot on Strode to do very much damage. Sure, Creed might be able to connect a few times, but a few times is nothing to Luther Strode. Characters like Luther Strode can have their intestines ripped from their torso, be shot multiple times, and have their neck snapped and get right back into the fight. I haven't seen that level of brutality inflicted upon Sabretooth. That may be because Marvel is geared more towards all ages, where Luther Strode is strictly mature content, but either way, Luther Strode has proven himself in the healing factor, survivability, and speed/reaction time departments to be far superior in my opinion.

I see creeds votes are starting to creep up, but honestly, i dont think he will win.The Fan boy in me woukd Love that so much but i am only being logical. After a hype battle, Luthor is going to litterally dissassemble Victor when he secures his hands on him.

I have to say that the Strode cases have been the most compelling in this battle so far. Interesting to see a Marvel character lose out to a non Big Two character for a change. Oh what the heck Strode's side has convinced me so I'll vote for him. Better striking power, speed and precog letting him somewhat predict Creed's attacks. Creed's superior skill and healing factor don't seem to be enough to overcom Luthor's advantages in this fight.

I actually think Comicvine has equal bias when it comes to indie vs Marvel/DC.

We've seen Bloodshot beat Daredevil, and Elektra lose to Shredder. Now it seems that Luther will beat Sabretooth here, and the general consensus was that Luther Strode would beat Bone Claw Logan (much to the ire of @super_soldierxii :P) and X-23, in a singles match.

I actually think Luther Strode is quite popular around here, thanks in part due to the work of @buckshot@k4tzm4n@strider92 and @god_spawn. And that's well deserved IMO.

Your message hasn't posted on here @laflux so I'll copy and paste it for you.

@laflux said

"I actually think Comicvine has equal bias when it comes to indie vs Marvel/DC.

We've seen Bloodshot beat Daredevil, and Elektra lose to Shredder. Now it seems that Luther will beat Sabretooth here, and the general consensus was that Luther Strode would beat Bone Claw Logan (much to the ire of @super_soldierxii :P) and X-23, in a singles match.

I actually think Luther Strode is quite popular around here, thanks in part due to the work of @buckshot@k4tzm4n@strider92 and @god_spawn. And that's well deserved IMO."

Oh yeah I totally forgot about those, that was silly of me. Each of those combatants had a distinct advantage over the other, eg Bloodshot had a healing factor and high stats and Shredder had an unbeaten record. Those contributed the most to their respective victories. Although I've only heard of Luthor Strode and don't follow him or his series, I can definitely see you're right in his popularity on here thanks to some of the most respectable street level experts giving him his due on the battle forums.

@super_soldierxii: I agree. Humans seem squishier, softer, and blood-filled-ier(?) in the strode universe. That should def be taken into account. That said i still think strode takes this because sabretooth also has squishy parts for luthor to get at.

Not in this circumstance, I am surprised someone didnt post creeds "Feat" of Killing a Wendigo once( which is pretty impressive and awesome)Even if they do post that i hope people will realize when analyzing a character appropriately, one should take in CONSISTENT behaviour, That Wendigo moment isnt a consistent occurence of Creed destroying a naturly overwhelming opponent but a rare occurence and. One of his best moments when compared to what usually happens when he goes up againts someone of that stature.

@jashro44:

Sabretooth can crush a man's skull WITH adamantium laced bones. It's absolutely debatable if he could without. Strode can use people's appendages he's ripped off like a sword to cut through and run through fodder. He can also kick someone so hard they're torso explodes and they projectile vomit the rest of their insides.

Sabretooth could cut someones head off by using his claws. Stode can do the exact same thing (while his powers were still developing) with his damn fingers. Before you say that Stode was just fantasizing in this panel. He was but only because he could do it, easily. Also this happens in Strange Talent. By Legend he could do this without a doubt.

A fledgling Strode getting all fired up at The Librarian and bringing an entire warehouse to the ground with his bare hands. While ripping The Librarian (who is very mighty indeed) apart.

Strode punching through a concrete wall like it was paper AND turning man's head into red splatter on the other side.

Strode hurling a man across a street like he was a pebble and through a brick wall with ease

Strode spitting a tooth out with such velocity that he shatters an industrial syringe with it.

Strode pinning a super strong character off the ground, against the wall with his foot. While throttling another super strong character with one hand.

Now this is my favorite Strode strength feat. A lengthy, one handed handstand on a single finger. Now as a guy who actually does handbalancing as a hobby (6 years and counting now). I can tell you that the core (not to mention, finger lol) strength is ridiculous. Sure, its not as out the park as his other ones but not all strength is brute strength. Oh and Sabretooth could definitely not to it.

Yeah, I know you called this one already but hey, doesn't mean it doesn't count. Has Sabretooth cratered someone like that before? NOPE.

Right then, does all that suffice, mate?

@hit_monkey: Not really. Sabretooth has feats like ripping steel as if it was paper so ripping apart people wouldn't exactly be that difficult. Likewise he has also ripped spider-mans webbing which is more then 2X stronger then steel. So ripping apart normal humans isn't actually something difficult with sabretooth. As for flinging a man through a giant wall Creed did the same thing to wolverine who weighs 300 pounds due to his adamantium skeleton:

As for Luther spitting his tooth I would argue its more so due to his talents then it is the result of his strength(similar to how he threw the sticks in the barrel of the gun). Taking down a warehouse is impressive but we see Luther shoving the Liberian through a support column so I think its possible the warehouse fell due to that. Aside from the crater (which I mentioned) the rest are not out of sabretooths league.

I wan to give this to Creed simply because of how he was mistreated by Marvel recently....i remember a 90´s Sabertooth that ripped through Archangels wings, killed Psylock and was generally shown to be Wolverines deadliest enemy. I also remember Creed when he rejoined Project X and fooled around with Lady Deathstrike and Omega Red just to toy with Logan.....i want THAT Sabertooth back and more people would respect him.....

@jashro44:

"Sabretooth has feats like ripping steel as if it was paper" - with adamantium lacing.
"he has also ripped spider-mans webbing which is more then 2X stronger than steel" - with adamantium lacing.

In this battle, Sabretooth does NOT have adamantium lacing. Those feats are up in the air.

"As for Luther spitting his tooth I would argue its more so due to his talents then it is the result of his strength(similar to how he threw the sticks in the barrel of the gun)."

I would disagree. It would take quite a monumental degree of physical strength to spit a tooth at such a velocity it can shatter reinforced glass that is used in animal trank syringes like that. I know Bullseye has done something similar but you what I mean, really.

"As for flinging a man through a giant wall Creed did the same thing to wolverine who weighs 300 pounds due to his adamantiumskeleton."

I have never said that Sabretooth couldn't lift and throw a 300 pound man with considerable force. However I put it to you that it would be easier to hurl a a man who has an unbreakable skeleton through a wall. Rather than a man who doesn't have an unbreakable skeleton. I saw Daredevil hurl Sabretooth though a concrete wall before and he's only peak-human. How did he manage that? Sabretooth has an unbreakable skeleton, that's why.

"So ripping apart normal humans isn't actually something difficult with sabretooth."

Yes, with his claws. My point being that stode can SLICE through people with BLUNT objects and his FINGERS. He's so strong, he doesn't need claws.

"Taking down a warehouse is impressive but we see Luther shoving the Liberian through a support column so I think its possible the warehouse fell due to that."

So you concede that Strode did bring down that warehouse? It doesn't really matter how he did it apart from the fact it was through sheer melee. I don't get your point? Also, that was one support beam. It'd a lot more to bring down the building they way it did.

As for your scan(s). Sabretooth was using (for all intents and purposes) a giant bat to accomplish that. Strode could do that with his fist alone.

@hit_monkey: Sabrtooth was ripping steel with bone claw. He never had adamantium when he fought spider-man IIRC. In fact Creed in a majority of his appearances doesn't have adamantium bones.

I would disagree. It would take quite a monumental degree of physical strength to spit a tooth at such a velocity it can shatter reinforced glass that is used in animal trank syringes like that. I know Bullseye has done something similar but you what I mean, really.

I know what you mean but I still disagree. I would say the tooth thing falls more in line with bullseye honestly. Its a cool feat but I look at it differently. All though I guess we can agree to disagree here.

I have never said that Sabretooth couldn't lift and throw a 300 pound man with considerable force. However I put it to you that it would be easier to hurl a a man who has an unbreakable skeleton through a wall. Rather than a man who doesn't have an unbreakable skeleton. I saw Daredevil hurl Sabretooth though a concrete wall before and he's only peak-human. How did he manage that? Sabretooth has an unbreakable skeleton, that's why.

When Creed fought daredevil he wasn't established with powers. Creed in his original appearances wasn't a meta human (I think he may have had low level enhanced strength but thats pretty much it). He was later reestablished as a super human when he became a wolverine villain IIRC. He also didn't have adamantium at this point.

As for having an unbreakable skeleton you can't toss a diamond through card board for example. It would take a lot of strength to do so. It wouldn't make it that much easier.

Yes, with his claws. My point being that stode can SLICE through people with BLUNT objects and his FINGERS. He's so strong, he doesn't need claws.

I see no reason why the guy who can crush a dung-bell with strength can't kill human with physical strength.

So you concede that Strode did bring down that warehouse? It doesn't really matter how he did it apart from the fact it was through sheer melee. I don't get your point? Also, that was one support beam. It'd a lot more to bring down the building they way it did.

As for your scan(s). Sabretooth was using (for all intents and purposes) a giant bat to accomplish that. Strode could do that with his fist alone.

I never denied Luther brought down the warehouse. And yea it does matter that he smashed the support columns and the building gave way by its weight. You actually see multiple support columns falling when Luther is fighting the Liberian in the warehouse. They likely were flinging each other around and smashed multiple support columns.

Luther Strode takes this, and I shall explain exactly why.

First, let us look at the various factors that would decide this battle. I shall examine each one, and then provide a summary as to why I believe Luther wins.

Strength is one of the three areas where I believe that Luther Strode clearly comes out on top. In the Marvel Universe wiki, his page states that Victor Creed (aka Sabretooth)'s upper body strength is such that he "could lift about 2 tons", and that "while the full limits of his strength weren't revealed, the latest Wolverine handbook confirms sabretooth being stronger than Wolverine who is stated to be able to lift in excess of 800 lbs for brief periods". Meanwhile should we look at some of Luther's strength feats, we see him going through normal people like tissue paper, destroying masonry with his tackles, and destroying a building with the forces of his blows in combat with his enemy. Has Sabretooth ever destroyed a building in battle with Wolverine? No. Can Sabretooth literally turn people to mush with almost no difficulty? No. Sabretooth has various "showy" and lifting strength feats, but in my opinion, Luther has superior striking ones.

Next, comes a question of strength vs. durability - after all, punching power means nothing if the other guy barely notices them. This is also an area where Strode shows clear superiority. Now, Sabretooth has a powerful healing factor, I do not disagree - but Luther has one too, and has demonstrated feats such as regenerating from disembowelment, compound fractures, high-force explosions, and other cases of high trauma. But this is not all. He also has demonstrated high durability - that is, the ability to withstand injuries in the first place, an area where Victor (with normal human durability) is severely lacking. Strode can stop bullets by flexing, while Creed would get perforated.

But, how does that help?

Let me explain. Let's make an equation. The total damage taken is inversely proportional to damage resistance and regeneration. This means, that a high healing factor (which both combatants possess) and a high level of damage resistance (which only Luther possesses) = less total damage done.

So that means, when Luther and Creed come to blows, the total damage taken would be greater on Creed's side, as despite his healing factor, he is only as durable as a normal human being (grade four on the power grid, "regenerative"), while Luther is at least on the "bulletproof" level (a grade five) as well as having a healing factor himself.

Next up, speed. Another vital factor (as many a Flash fan would tell you). On the wikia, Sabretooth is listed as having a "2" for speed, i.e., "normal". This, coupled with stamina and reflexes, make Creed a formidable foe - but his speed/reflexes are nothing compared to Luther's. For example, let's look at some of his high tier ones. In one instance, he dodges bullets and then expertly throws chopsticks into the barrels, jamming the guns. In another, he literally sprints onto oncoming bullets (which are moving towards him at least at 700 mph, the speed of a bullet from a 9mm handgun) and yet dodges them all and disarms his attacker. There are others. The point is, he is unarguably faster both in movement and combat than Creed, and can easily match him in those sectors.

But that is not all.

Now, we look at fighting ability. Clearly, Creed's many years of experience give him the advantage here - or do they?

Allow me to explain.

Luther, and other users of the Hercules method, can use their "talents" to predict the next 1000 moves their foe will make, regardless of skill or ability. This allows him to outhink and outreact his foes before they even make a move.

And all of these factors - speed, strength, precognition, and regeneration/durability - is why, ladies and gentlemen of the 'Vine, I believe that Luther Strode wins.

Non Marvel/DC comics are getting respect :)

This is in fact a very close fight. Much more than the pole currently dictates in my humble opinion. They are pretty evenly matched apart from a few areas. I would say Strode is faster but Creed is more physically imposing. I am favoring Luther here for a few reasons I shall go into now. First off the pre-cognition. As seen in "The Strange Talent Of Luther Strode" Luther possess a form of pre-cognition allowing him to see how the enemy will react in a given scenario. While Sabretooth has enhanced senses they don't really compensate for this advantage.

Both of them are insanely durable due to their healing factors so in terms of durability there isn't really an advantage either way having said that we do know a few things about how Strode likes to deal with his opponents. The Librarian and the Binder both brought sheer brutality to their encounters with Luther, something that Strode managed to match with equal vigor however when he encountered Jack The Ripper he was visibly taken aback by Jack's speed and the skill he displayed in his fights rather than sheer brutality. Creed has the disadvantage of being the exact type of fighter Luther has had the most success fighting ie: a brawler who brings sheer monstrous savagery and using his healing factor to tank hits while doing the up-most possible to tear his opponent limb from limb. As Jack would say "No Art!". To put it bluntly despite superior physical stats in strength Creed isn't bringing anything new to the table that Luther hasn't faced before.

Another advantage Luther possess's is that despite the fact he is a brawler he is a more effective one than Creed. Allow me to explain. In his every encounter he has never sought to draw the fight out. During his fight with the Librarian despite him being reasonable unaccustomed to his powers (leading to his initial domination by the Librarian before effectively mastering his pre-cog) he was always looking to finish the fight quickly via kill shots such as breaking his neck. We saw the same thing against the Binder where he went straight to tear the guy's chest out without hesitation seeking to end the fight as soon as possible. We saw this yet again against Jack when he went yet again straight for a kill-shot.

Creed on the other hand is a sadistic, moraless killer who revels in inflicting pain. He is not instantly on the kill-shot, he likes to inflict as much pain as possible on his opponent before ending them in the most agonizing way he can come up with. This is the major difference between Creed and Strode. Creed loves to fight so he can inflict pain Luther on the other hand fights because he has too hence the reason he goes for instantly lethal options because he doesn't want to draw the fight out.

The combination of pre-cog, experience fighting exactly this type of opponent and his preference to end the fight as quickly as possible is telling me allows Luther to overcome Sabretooth's physical superiority to take the win after a very brutal and bloody battle.

@cadencev2: I acknowledged it earlier in a conversation with Laflux.

@strider92 Even amongst the plethora of awesome arguments for Luthor Strode made already, this is still a damn fine case made for Strode beating Creed alongside other brilliant arguments as well. It's clear that these are what have given Luthor the advantage. Bravo mate, kudos to your fantastic post!

Based on what people are saying,I think Luthor might win.

I'm not really sure why strode is winning this so easily. Creed has had some bad showings against Logan lately, but by the end of the storylines sabretooth always revealed much bigger plans than simply winning a fist fight. He controls a good majority of the marvel underworld, right now, this watered down sabretooth everyone is talking about rules a continent basically. Luther strode is a street fighter with, in my opinion, Zero physically advantages over creed. Plus no where near the experience or, in my opinion, level of competiton. Sabretooth easily defeated black panther in the evolution storyline, plus handed wolverine his ass a few times, plus his clone beat wolverine once. Going back to mutant massacre days, sabretooth roughed up daredevil horribly. That was before several upgrades. So two of marvels best fighters have been handled by sabes. Not to mention numerous fights with guys like iron fist, Spider-man and cage and doing quite well for himself. Strode is cool and new and violent, but no way he beats victor if creed wants to win. A lot of the links I'm seeing for strodes feats look like guys who sabretooth would shred in seconds. And as for cratering someone, creed did a pretty good job of that in the storyline "of men and monsters" against sinisters custom made mutants.

@hit_monkey: That head chopping feat actually never happened. It was as Luthor's powers were developing and that was a pre-cog vision he had. I'm sure he might be capable of it, heck his brain thought so, but that doesn't make it an actual feat.

The rest of the argument is solid though.

@lvenger: Why thank you :)

This,with the side note that he is a villain(who kills ) you really can't have him winning fights with main characters and(as to how fast he is this is one feat)

Creed has also shown to rip through Iron after being encased in it

His experience is the reason he fights people like Daredevil, and Iron fist to a stand still ,and if we closer examine those fights,we notice he loses right when he is about to kill his opponent(this is when his jobber aura kicks in the most ), and when fighting wolverine they are engaged in blur speed combat(this was brought up just a week ago I think).He has also crushed a mans skull with one hand

So i say this is pretty close

Voting is open for at least 15 more hours! Spread the word, make final arguments or give praise to posts you think should be Viner Argument of the Week!

Sabretooth is getting SO low balled in this thread it's ridiculous.

I am a HUGE fan of the Luther's title. Picked it up from day one. But this is just silly. Yeah, I guess we can blame sub par writing the last decade or so, outfitting Creed (still hoping it's just his clones) as a jobber. But man, this is silly.

Oh I didn't know that. Nice

As for the battle at hand, I believe the discrapency between Creed now and Creed back in the day, makes it hard for me to write an analysis between the two without failing to acknowlegde the feats from different era's. That being said, if Classic Sabes was to fight Strode, I would favour him. But Luther Strode would beat Sabes the way he has been written recently.

All that jobbing is going to come back to haunt ya at some point.

@god_spawn Sabes and Logan must think that they are Chris Jericho at this moment in time- I.e that they can put over people left , right and center and think that thier reputation won't be harmed :P.

Next weeks Battle should be a Team battle, now I ain't talking about two on two but Offical superhero teams like Dark Avengers Vs Cryme Syndicate e.g.....That would make for an interesting Dynamic for "This battle of the week" Segment

Creed ain't hay.

"Oh, and we know there aren't too many cosmic/team battles in this segment, but honestly, that's because they're much more difficult to balance (especially if you're trying to make a remotely original one). But fear not, there will definitely be one next week. In the meantime, do try to have a good time with this one."

Way ahead of ya ;)