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Posted by k4tzm4n (39496 posts) 2 months, 13 days ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Moon Knight vs. Ra's al Ghul (281 votes)

Moon Knight 56%
Ra's al Ghul 39%
Too close to call 5%

Khonshu be praised! Moon Knight is our latest Character of the Month, so that means we're giving him a whole lot of love on the homepage. We'll have several features about the anti-hero, but every week we'll test his abilities as a combatant, too. Last week, Marc Spector bested Green Arrow, and this week, he's facing off against Ra's al Ghul. Will he be victorious yet again or will Batman's villain take him down? You have until Friday to think this one through, Viners. But before picking a winner, please be sure to read all of the rules below!

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter (aka no prep for either team).
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 15 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover in the location (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, the sewer, etc.
  • Moon Knight has his current gear. No vehicles, obviously.
  • Ra's al Ghul is pre-52, in his prime, and has a sword of his choice.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination. Making a tactical retreat counts as a loss, too.
  • Hey, you know what would be really cool? Treating everyone else in the debate with respect. If you think someone's saying something that just isn't true, go ahead and stick to the facts to point out why. There's no need at all to drop insults just because you disagree with someone. Seriously, this is just talking about a fictional fight, there's no need for immaturity and mudslinging.
  • If you think the poll isn't going how it should, making an informative post about why a character is being underestimated and spreading the word is far more useful than complaining. Just saying.
  • One more thing: you don't need to write an essay to be selected as the Viner Argument of the Week. Sometimes concise posts can be way more effective than a flood of paragraphs.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • Thoughts from the staff.
  • A Viner Argument for both characters (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future battle suggestions in the comments below or via Twitter! Want to continue celebrating Moon Knight? We've posted his Best Covers, he'll be the topic of tomorrow's Question of the Week, and his Best Battles will be posted on Friday.

#1 Posted by highaccuser (5994 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon knight. Ras isn't that impressive. He mostly just gets beat up by batman and was even overpowered by nightwing in sword fighting(his own game).

Ras will put up a fight though. He's given batman trouble on the occasion, and it's been stated his striking power is equal to Shiva(who has rad striking feats), so he can give Marc problems, he's just never pulled a win against someone Marc's level.

#2 Edited by Omnicrono (1739 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight would have a difficult time with the likes of Green Arrow, and Ra's in a whole different league than GA. The man is one of Batman's all-time greatest foes for good reason. Having enhanced physicals (thank you, Lazarus Pit) and a genius level intellect, on top of being one of the greatest sword fighters, martial artists and tacticians in the DCU equals a formidable opponent in any universe. I predict a Ghul-ish win for Ra's... 7-8 times out of 10.

#3 Edited by tparks (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a great battle and should make for a great discussion. First thing that comes to my head when I hear Moon Knight is fighting someone with a sword:

Taking down Swordsman in one page.

#4 Edited by Twix_Right_Side (2207 posts) - - Show Bio

I can already see the arguments.

"Ras fights Batman. Batman> Moon Knight. Ras wins"

Anyway,I...change my mind. I am not sure. In a sword fight I think that Ras holds the skill advantage,but Moon Knight has an incredible pain tolerance,and in h2h I think that he can take Ras al Ghul.

. Reflexes are always important,and Moon Knight (if I'm remembering corrrectly) deflected bullets (in mid air) with his Crescent,and pulled out his crescent from behind his back and deflected a bullet in the time it took a mercenary to pull the trigger. However,I am not sure on Ras's feats other than fighting Batman multiple times and losing,so I can't say who beats who in the physical department (because I am not sure about what Ras can do).

Anyone has feats for Moon Knight? And/or Ras?

#5 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone should post some scans for Ras.

#6 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

Going for Moon Knight right now but I would like to see some good thought out Ras arguments

#7 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21461 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon knight. Ras isn't that impressive. He mostly just gets beat up by batman and was even overpowered by nightwing in sword fighting(his own game).

It's not impressive to fight nearly even with people who could beat Moon Knight?

#8 Posted by nickzambuto (13334 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser said:

Moon knight. Ras isn't that impressive. He mostly just gets beat up by batman and was even overpowered by nightwing in sword fighting(his own game).

It's not impressive to fight nearly even with people who could beat Moon Knight?

Ra's al Ghul is never even with Batman so much as he just doesn't get stomped.

#9 Posted by Avilon (112 posts) - - Show Bio

I am leaning on Ra's but am still undecided

#10 Edited by ClawFist (318 posts) - - Show Bio

The man who dies all the time versus the man who survives all the time. Hmm...

#11 Posted by G_leno (980 posts) - - Show Bio

For the first time in all these battles, I voted too close to call. If you held a gun to my head and told me to choose a winner, I'd go with Moon Knight, but I really do think this is even.

Both of them have proven to be able to beat the other very good fighters in their own universes, Moon Knight has a no holds barred attitude compared to Batman and I think this will help him out here.

#12 Posted by lmothander (98 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Is that artist Mark Texeira? Didn't know he did any MK. Loves me some Tex!

#13 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5011 posts) - - Show Bio

I love how on the cover of Batman issue 224 Ras has Batmans whole costume in his hands like its a one piece yet Batman still has on his cowl, utility belt and pants still on wtf?

#14 Posted by The_Kid_Lantern (59 posts) - - Show Bio

Saying MK could take Ra's in hand to hand is like saying without weapons or claws MK could take Wolverine. Ra's, like Wolverine, has DECADES of fighting experience. No way in hell MK, even as experienced in the military and superheroics as he is, can take somebody like Ra's in close quarters. MK has the high pain tolerance, but Ra's has been physically enhanced by the Lazarus Pits. MK may come close but like I said in the other thread, Ra's would kick his ass and just assume he's an ally of Batman's with his ridiculous costume and gimmicky weaponry...

~KL~

#15 Edited by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

Saying MK could take Ra's in hand to hand is like saying without weapons or claws MK could take Wolverine. Ra's, like Wolverine, has DECADES of fighting experience. No way in hell MK, even as experienced in the military and superheroics as he is, can take somebody like Ra's in close quarters. MK has the high pain tolerance, but Ra's has been physically enhanced by the Lazarus Pits. MK may come close but like I said in the other thread, Ra's would kick his ass and just assume he's an ally of Batman's with his ridiculous costume and gimmicky weaponry...

~KL~

Well to be fair his combat experience hasn't helped against batman. Experience isn't everything.

#16 Posted by tparks (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Is that artist Mark Texeira? Didn't know he did any MK. Loves me some Tex!

I believe it was David Finch.

#17 Posted by LuciusTheEternal (802 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight. I never seen Ras win battles in any media, and a mere peak human with a sword vs someone with all the toys MK has.... not seeing Ras winning.

#18 Posted by Owie (3684 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmm. I need to know about R'as more. Hopefully someone posts scans.

But my general impression is that he's pretty damn good with a sword. While I am a big fan of Moonie, I think Batman is a tier or two above him in terms of skill. So anyone who can more or less stalemate Batman has a decent chance of beating him in H2H. But I'd need to see the details of those fights to really evaluate that.

There are a couple other things to consider. They're starting 15' apart, so Moon Knight wouldn't have a huge amount of time to throw crescents, although he has done so from close up in the past. But he could choose to move away, and attack from a distance, in which case R'as is in trouble since he has no way to answer that. I assume R'as has dodged some batarangs in the past though. The other question is, is it in character for Moonie to make distance between them, or would he charge in? On the one hand, since he doesn't know who R'as is, and he's going to see a shirtless guy with a sword, I assume he probably would move in an attack. But (as seen in his fight with Bullseye for example) he's not above making a tactical play and attacking from cover. But I think he wouldn't be likely to do that at the beginning.

When it comes to sword fighting, fighting R'as and Swordsman isn't exactly the same thing. Swordsman relies on his sword's energy capabilities and his sword fighting to win, but R'as has sword skills plus enhanced physicals, and from what I know of him is significantly more likely to fight in an agile way than Swordsman. Swordsman standing there and getting swept isn't R'as style. Moon Knight has fought and beaten plenty of guys with edged weapons before though, from Bushman to Deadpool to Black Knight--although granted he won that less by weapons mastery than tactics--and a bunch of lesser known guys. He beat a cluster of Hand ninjas, starting off unarmed. So it's a fighting situation he's familiar with.

The other thing to consider is weapon contrast in H2H. R'as has a single sword, which he will likely use both as a slashing and a stabbing weapon. Marc, on the other hand, has his bracers to block the sword, plus his truncheon, and potentially some random other H2H weapons. The truncheon is a blunt weapon, and can extend to staff length. So he can have a bit of a each advantage, and could use it to disarm or break R'as sword. Staff vs sword fighting can often give the advantage to the staff for these reasons, but it's not definitive. He has also used the truncheon to project a grappling hook on a line, and used it as a weapon, so that's another semi-distance attack he could use.

I don't think Moon Knight's current armor will provide a huge amount of protection against the sword. Nor will his pain resistance be all that important. Ra's isn't going to go for a death by a thousand cuts, he'll go to stab in the heart, cut the throat, or dismember. So a hit will potentially be a fight-ending hit; Marc's job is to dodge and parry until he can either bludgeon Ra's down, or bludgeon him in combination with the occasional thrown crescent to the hand or eye. Whether he can do that against R'as, I'm not sure.

#19 Posted by highaccuser (5994 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:

@highaccuser said:

Moon knight. Ras isn't that impressive. He mostly just gets beat up by batman and was even overpowered by nightwing in sword fighting(his own game).

It's not impressive to fight nearly even with people who could beat Moon Knight?

Ra's al Ghul is never even with Batman so much as he just doesn't get stomped.

Agreed.

#20 Edited by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@luciustheeternal said:

Moon Knight. I never seen Ras win battles in any media, and a mere peak human with a sword vs someone with all the toys MK has.... not seeing Ras winning.

He did beat Bane all though it was a sword fight so it was playing to Ras strength. Could have gone differently if Bane decided to fight unarmed. All though then again you could argue Bane decided to use a sword because he would have had a better chance....Personally I think Bane should beat Ras but here are the scans:

The dialogue is pretty good too. "I have crossed swords with the courts of Louis XII through XVI. I have bested the master fencers of Heideilberg at fin de siecle. I have been the last man standing at cossack fighting circle. I have slain more men than you have had days on the planet!"

All though yea track record is not a favorable argument for Ras...

#21 Edited by LuciusTheEternal (802 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: He is kinda of a Jobber. Sort of that position of "yeah he is a super serious threat, he just has a poor track record" jobber.

Kinda like Terrax lol.

#22 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: He is kinda of a Jobber. Sort of that position of "yeah he is a super serious threat, he just has a poor track record" jobber.

Kinda like Terrax lol.

Who Bane or Ras? Ras I can kind of see but Bane is usually very impressive.

#23 Edited by LuciusTheEternal (802 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by Owie (3684 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@luciustheeternal said:

Moon Knight. I never seen Ras win battles in any media, and a mere peak human with a sword vs someone with all the toys MK has.... not seeing Ras winning.

He did beat Bane all though it was a sword fight so it was playing to Ras strength. Could have gone differently if Bane decided to fight unarmed. All though then again you could argue Bane decided to use a sword because he would have had a better chance....Personally I think Bane should beat Ras but here are the scans:

The dialogue is pretty good too. "I have crossed swords with the courts of Louis XII through XVI. I have bested the master fencers of Heideilberg at fin de siecle. I have been the last man standing at cossack fighting circle. I have slain more men than you have had days on the planet!"

All though yea track record is not a favorable argument for Ras...

Yeah, the scans I have just been looking up don't look all that great for Ra's. Looks like Batman has trounced him decisively a few times, although it's possible there are fights that have gone the opposite direction that I haven't found yet. And with Bane, while I agree he ought to have done better, it's not an exact parallel with Moon Knight, since Moon Knight has done more than "read a book about fencing," he's reasonably experienced with swords and against sword-fighters.

#25 Edited by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: True I was just posting a win for Ras since Lucias stated he never saw him win a fight in any media. Its at least something.

As for his fights against batman there was there fight in birth of the demon all though there were circumstances on both ends I believe. As I understand it batman was suffering from an illness and Ras needed another dip in the Lazarus pit and wasn't in his prime as a result. I believe that fight was pretty even. Not sure if there are other fights.

#26 Edited by Jayc1324 (11161 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's has actually beaten batman on a number of occasions, but most of the time batman beats him. He's inconsistent but does have the skill to win this.

#27 Edited by Experio (15150 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon knight.

Can fair well in close combat long enough to realise he may be on the losing end if the battle, from then in he can keep his distance while striking with ranged weapons. If Ra's speed helps him evade or deflects them rapidly, Moon knight can instead aim at the lights leaving the battlefield to remain in complete darkness and proceed to attack within the shadows blind to Ra's eye.

#28 Posted by Alak (926 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting for Ra's here.

#29 Posted by Night Thrasher (3667 posts) - - Show Bio

I flipped a coin; it came up Moon Knight

#30 Edited by detective38 (175 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont even like moon knight be he wpuld take ras in a random encounter

#31 Posted by patrat18 (9467 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on now we had MK last week.

#32 Edited by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

Come on now we had MK last week.

Well it is moon knights month...My guess is k4tzm4n is staying away from moon knights villains because no one knows anything about them.

#33 Posted by patrat18 (9467 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@patrat18 said:

Come on now we had MK last week.

Well it is moon knights month...My guess is k4tzm4n is staying away from moon knights villains because no one knows anything about them.

Lol.

#34 Posted by patrat18 (9467 posts) - - Show Bio

Ras should take this.

#35 Posted by k4tzm4n (39496 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

@jashro44 said:

@patrat18 said:

Come on now we had MK last week.

Well it is moon knights month...My guess is k4tzm4n is staying away from moon knights villains because no one knows anything about them.

Lol.

Yup. Just look at the lack of activity when the question of the week was "Favorite Moon Knight villain." There are tons of characters I'd love to use, but we also need to think about traffic. So a Bushman, Black Spectre, or Zapata Brothers match really isn't an option, unfortunately.

Staff
#36 Edited by The_Deathstroker (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18: And how many times have we had Batman without people complaining?

#37 Posted by patrat18 (9467 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18: And how many times have we had Batman without people complaining?

Never! Every Batman thread some one complains. We've never had a back to back Battle of the week for Batman.

#38 Posted by k4tzm4n (39496 posts) - - Show Bio

Would love to see someone drop a Ra's knowledge bomb here. Can't help but feel like he's being sold a bit short...

Staff
#40 Posted by Omnicrono (1739 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by Leafx (16 posts) - - Show Bio

HOLY CRAP Moon Knight has been getting some good vs this month, kudos CV!

So for this one I have to unfortunately give a slight edge to Ras al Ghul, with the sword of his choice and the amount of experience he has, I just feel that will be enough to put Marc down for the count. We've seen characters akin to Moon Knight such as Batman or even Bane try to take on Ras and fail, particularly in sword play. Now with that said, I have to give Moon Knight credit because we've seen him disarm people like nothing and hes one of the toughest normal humans in comics, so bringing him down even for Ras will be tough, but MK also likes to approach his foes more directly meaning he will be at an immediate disadvantage in my opinion. Ras wins 6/10 but Marc goes down swinging.

#42 Edited by k4tzm4n (39496 posts) - - Show Bio

@leafx Thank you!!!

@patrat18 said:

@The_Deathstroker said:

@patrat18: And how many times have we had Batman without people complaining?

Never! Every Batman thread some one complains. We've never had a back to back Battle of the week for Batman.

Moon Knight is getting just one month of attention. Batman gets love literally every single month. I'd say it's okay if Marc steals the spotlight for 3-4 weeks, especially since he was voted as the Character of the Month. ;)

Staff
#43 Edited by JMG (224 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight throws a handful of crescent darts into Ra's face then proceeds to punch the front of his skull until he is dead.

#44 Posted by patrat18 (9467 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@leafx Thank you!!!

@patrat18 said:

@The_Deathstroker said:

@patrat18: And how many times have we had Batman without people complaining?

Never! Every Batman thread some one complains. We've never had a back to back Battle of the week for Batman.

Moon Knight is getting just one month of attention. Batman gets love literally every single month. I'd say it's okay if Marc steals the spotlight for 3-4 weeks, especially since he was voted as the Character of the Month. ;)

I never said i wanted a Batman battle of the month. The Deathstroker brought is up out of nowhere.

#45 Posted by patrat18 (9467 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmg said:

Moon Knight throws a handful of crescent darts into Ra's face then proceeds to punch the front of his skull until he is dead.

Creative, but no.

#46 Posted by The_Deathstroker (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18: Pffft.... Don't try turning the blame on me.

*pulls out radio*

We've got another, boys!

"Another what, sir?"

A Batman Fanboy!

*SWAT comes in and drags you away*

;)

#47 Posted by patrat18 (9467 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18: Pffft.... Don't try turning the blame on me.

*pulls out radio*

We've got another, boys!

"Another what, sir?"

A Batman Fanboy!

*SWAT comes in and drags you away*

;)

Lmfaoo. It is you're fault dude, i hate Batman.

#48 Posted by The_Deathstroker (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh and for the actual battle.... Im gonna be honest.... I don't know nearly enough on either combatant to make any type of standpoint here. However, from what little I do know about the characters I'm gonna go ahead and say it's too close to call.

Sorry, K4tz. Didn't mean to derail your thread up there^

#49 Posted by The_Deathstroker (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18: Liar! I'll never take the blame for this! Never! Go rot in you're anti-batbelt cell! >:D

#50 Edited by k4tzm4n (39496 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh and for the actual battle.... Im gonna be honest.... I don't know nearly enough on either combatant to make any type of standpoint here. However, from what little I do know about the characters I'm gonna go ahead and say it's too close to call.

Sorry, K4tz. Didn't mean to derail your thread up there^

S'okay!

@patrat18 said:

@The_Deathstroker said:

@patrat18: Pffft.... Don't try turning the blame on me.

*pulls out radio*

We've got another, boys!

"Another what, sir?"

A Batman Fanboy!

*SWAT comes in and drags you away*

;)

Lmfaoo. It is you're fault dude, i hate Batman.

Who's your favorite?

Staff