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Posted by k4tzm4n (39335 posts) 1 year, 7 months ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Luke Cage/Iron Fist vs. Venom/Scarlet Spider (411 votes)

Luke Cage/Iron Fist 39%
Venom (Flash)/Scarlet Spider (Kaine) 57%
Too close to call 4%

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated and at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 20 feet apart and visible. However, there's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc.
  • Everyone has their standard gear.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.

Comic Viners, you have until this Friday morning (ET) to research the characters, present a case and/or dive into the debate with others and, of course, cast your vote! As always, Friday's update will include one Viner's argument for the winning character (only posts in the poll thread will be considered and they can't include scans *link above*), the staff's thoughts and if we're extra lucky, thoughts from writers, artists and others in the industry (spoiler: one writer has already provided a blurb)! Viners, it's understandable that debates over "who would win?" can get heated, but please try to keep the conversations informative and not personal.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#1 Edited by laflux (19947 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by jashro44 (28618 posts) - - Show Bio

Backing the spiders

#3 Posted by DecoyElite (4021 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna go team spiders on this one. Danny is the biggest threat, but I think Flash can take as long as he does so quickly. Kaine can handle Luke, his punches are hard enough.

Still the fight's not nearly as simple as I'm making out to be and it'll be a tough one for sure.

I've readied my plate for when I eat my words.

#4 Posted by tparks (5888 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiders should take this. They have the clear advantage of being able to stick to walls and use their webbing from a distance that Luke Cage and Iron Fist are unable to fight back from. I don't think webbing is enough to keep the Heroes for Hire down, but it's enough to give the Spiders an advantage. That being said, Iron Fist can always get lucky and one shot either of them with a chi charged punch. Spiders using range to their advantage should not have a problem with that though.

#5 Edited by Taylors005 (120 posts) - - Show Bio

the spiders have this.

i really think Kaine's stealth and Venom's military training give them a deciding advantage in a close fight

#6 Edited by TheManInTheShoe (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke and Danny

#7 Posted by batmannflash (6272 posts) - - Show Bio


#8 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2496 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke and Iron Fist

#9 Posted by Immortal777 (8024 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there a reason Luke Cage would ever be able to tag the Spider team?

#10 Posted by CaseyJustice (31 posts) - - Show Bio

Boy, this is a good one.

The Spider's main liability is going to be their lack of teamwork. Luke and Danny have been fighting in tandem for years, but Kaine and Flash actively dislike each other and have fought as allies all of once. If the teams are fighting all together, the H4H have this all tied up.

Now, if we get some one-on-one battles, that's where things get interesting. While Iron Fist is skilled and powerful, I don't think that he can compensate for Kaine's strength, speed and killer instinct. Throw in his webs and stealth suit and, sadly, the Fist is down.

Conversely, I can't fathom that there's anything Venom can thrown at Luke Cage that would take him down. Even if he goes full-on symbiote monster, one well placed thunderclap has the two separated with Flash knocked out and some black goo in the corner.

That brings it down to Kaine and Luke. It's a tough fight and, while Kaine seems to have the clear advantage in terms of abilities, Luke's strength and invulnerability can't be counted out, not to mention his experience working with Spider-Man. End of the day, though, we've seen this Scarlet Spider employ creative and merciless tactics to take down opponents as strong as Cage. Couple this with the speed disparity and I feel like, after an extremely lengthy and bloody bout, the Spider-Clone walks away from this one.

But, given the parameters of the fight, I doubt that Cage and Fist would allow the web-heads to split them up. They'd control the environment, trading foes and coordinating attack to squash the spiders together. So yeah, I give it to the Heroes for Hire!

#11 Posted by marvel_dc_heroes_villains (148 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist and Venom (particularly Agent Venom) are two of my absolute favourite Marvel characters, making this a difficult choice for the fanboy within me. Logically, however, there's no way the Heroes for Hire can win this. Cage is the battle's weak link and wouldn't be able to tag either of the spiders, so they could ignore him whilst going 2-on-1 with Danny (who is arguably the MVP of the match). Rand could potentially take down one of them (even without chi, he wrecked that giant monster and the Iron Fist is hella powerful), but couldn't handle the both of them. Then it's just a matter of getting enough webbing on Cage to incapacitate him, as a straightforward knockout would be nigh-impossible. Spiders take this 7 or 8/10.

#12 Posted by Monarch_Chronicle (916 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777: I am undecided(need more thinking time) but I think Luke could tag venom without much trouble. Not so sure about Kaine. If Kaine gets close and miss judges how hard to hit Luke it might cost him, but not enough to get beaten.

This is a good fight!

#13 Posted by dondave (39681 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by OreoAssassin (7542 posts) - - Show Bio

Venom and Kaine take this one. Not only are Flash Thompson and Kaine a threat but Venom can "Vulk Out" and that can be very bad for IronFist and Cage. Kaine and Flash will take this one way or another.

#15 Posted by G_Money_Christmas (900 posts) - - Show Bio


#16 Edited by Dernman (16865 posts) - - Show Bio

The Spiders.

#17 Posted by victorcheenoanleu (183 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm backing the Spiders but I wouldn't count the H4H out so easily. Someone said the weak link in this is Cage? Are you an *****?! If anything that's the biggest threat, Cage's invulnerability would leave him in the game much longer than Iron Fist. He'd most likely put to shame Agent Venom. The fight would come down to Kaine & Cage. Kaine has put Spider-Man to shame many times, most recently in Superior Spider Man Team Up #2. Not to mention this entity that's manifested itself in him since issue #14 of his ongoing series. He definitely has the upper hand, but if at any point they're forced to work together I would give it to the H4H. I love the Spiders too much, agent venom a lot less but I'll stick to my faves.

#18 Posted by redhood21 (833 posts) - - Show Bio

kaine and flash!! GLHF heroes for hire

#19 Posted by thegoddamnjokerdp (9 posts) - - Show Bio


dead and blood lusted


#20 Posted by LinkXV1 (496 posts) - - Show Bio


I agree the H4H have this in the bag. Looks like we're pretty behind at the moment. Welcome to the vine! Keep making good posts like that, and you'll go far!

#21 Edited by marvel_dc_heroes_villains (148 posts) - - Show Bio

@victorcheenoanleu: The guy who said that Cage is the weak link was me. I'm the *********. I stand by what I said. He's too slow to affect the outcome of this battle and nowhere near agile enough to tag one of the spider-team whilst they're zipping around on webbing.

#22 Posted by WWAJfan (269 posts) - - Show Bio


agreed, FLash beat Cap in his Agent mode, and also the Symbiote's resistance to sonics n fire has grown better

#23 Posted by ShadowSwordmaster (18435 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

#24 Posted by Trevel8182 (755 posts) - - Show Bio

How can the Greatest Bromance of all time be losing!

#25 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5782 posts) - - Show Bio

This really isn't even close. Team Spider handedly.

#26 Posted by TheImmortalBeaver (23 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine recently caused Wolverine a tremendous amount of pain, and has time and time again showed himself to be an insanely vicious combatant. While I'm not too familiar with Venom's capabilities in his current form, I am somewhat familiar with Iron First and Luke Cage, and the Scarlet Spider could probably put up a strong fight against the Heroes For Hire without backup, though he'd ultimately lose. Throw in backup and this fight would definitely go for Team Spider.

#27 Edited by theshadowheart91 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a tough one, I'm a massive Iron Fist fan but Luke is too weak a link, Danny could probably beat either of these on their own but not against the 2. Kaine and Venom would stomp Luke.Venom's powers and gear are too diverse while Kiane has the physicals to KO or restrain Luke. Also Venom and Kaine are a lot more brutal than heroes for hire. I see the spider family taking 7/10 of these.It would take a blood lusted Danny to win.

#28 Posted by B9tendo (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Great match up. Im only going with team spider because of the healing match up should be Batman Vs Starlord.

#29 Posted by SoA (5697 posts) - - Show Bio

i give it to team spider . kaine/venom are not afraid to kill when push comes to shove

#30 Edited by XImpossibruX (5526 posts) - - Show Bio

Ouch, Venom alone could hold his own vs those two and do well. Adding Kaine ensures a sure-shot victory.

#31 Posted by HigorM (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a battle I would like to see happen. The Spider-Team vs The Power Team!

If in one side you have superior agility and versatility, the other possess raw power and synergy!

This is tough to call but I have to say Kaine and Flash takes the majority.

Kaine possess insane physical stats along with a killer instinct that will put the Power Team in trouble. Even if we analyze this like one-on-one matches I see him being able to take Iron Fist down. Danny himself admitted that Spider-man was hard to fight considering his agility and especially the spider-sense. I know that Kaine no longer has the spider-sense but he fights without holding himself, which is something Peter does regularly, and that´s why Danny can keep up with him in the first place.

Kaine should have no problem dealing with Luke Cage if necessary, who is very strong and durable but both Kaine and Venom already dealt with major threats so he is the weak link here.

The Agent Venom has proved himself to be quite tough challenge against the likes of Spider-Man, Anti-Venom, Toxin and Carnage, his insane durability/healing factor combined with his military skills and symbiote versatility puts him up to either of his enemies here.

The Spider-Team will most likely incapacitate Luke Cage via webbing, or avoid him with their agility so they can take care of the Iron Fist, turning this battle into a 2x1 match, so yes, team spider for the win.

#32 Posted by Scarlet_Spider_Forever (153 posts) - - Show Bio


#33 Posted by AllStarSuperman (25879 posts) - - Show Bio

I want ironfist to win. But spiders win.

#34 Posted by Rexorr (1091 posts) - - Show Bio

I was thinking Spiders, but when you think of it if Luke cage and Iron fist catch spiders, they smash

#35 Posted by obscurefan (297 posts) - - Show Bio

I love the Heroes for Hire, but I have to hand this one to Flash and Kaine for two reasons.

One is the fact that the Spiders have way better camouflage for this fight than the H4H. Kaine has his suit that can hide him from sight, sound, and on pretty much every visual spectrum. And because this fight takes place at night Venom could easily hide in the shadows with the way his symbiote cloaks him. Combine that with his military training and he could easily sneak up on the two of these guys, even with Iron Fist's incredible reflexes and senses.

And secondly both of the Spiders have an ace in the hole that comes out when the fight gets too rough. Even if the H4H have them on the ropes and things are looking bad, before they go down Kaine gives in to "The Other" and goes into a berserker rage, and Flash would lose control to the symbiote and start screaming about eating brains. Next thing you know Iron Fist and Luke Cage now have to go toe to toe with two out of control monsters with a flurry of tentacles and spikes flying all over the place. Even if Cage has unbreakable skin he'd eventually get too worn down to fight (or if the symbiote really gets out of control or Flash has been given the orders to stop him at any cost, it could end up smothering him and depriving him of air) and Iron Fist could put a hefty beat down on the two Spiders but with Kaine going out of control he'd just need to land one spike to his heart and that would be it. And I know you might be thinking "Yeah but Iron Fist's reflexes are so sharp he'd never land that blow." We've seen that the moment Kaine loses control to the Other, he moves faster and like a wild beast that would take anyone by surprise.

Or if they don't go into their berserker modes, they could both still win simply by tying the two of them up in an almost unending amount of webbing. I'm sure the two of them could keep getting out of it, but after breaking out of six or seven web traps (each one stronger than steel) even the Heroes for Hire would be too exhausted to put up much more of a fight.

#36 Posted by Samuel_Simmons (198 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine or Venom each could win this solo

#37 Edited by Patera_All (243 posts) - - Show Bio

There are a few ways this fight could play out, and if Luke and Danny go back to back, gladiators-in-the-arena style, it is one helluva fight. Luke needs to run interference; tossing cars around, shielding Danny, and squashing one of the spiders if they get too caught up in a fight with his brother-from-another. If he can do this, and Danny can pick his spots like a sniper, possibly one-shotting Flash with a chi attack (and that's a big if, also I still think Kaine's too quick for that) then utilizing team work they could wipe the floor with Kaine... but if it doesn't play out like this, the spiders will slaughter!

Due to physicality, it's easy to see Venom and Cage going toe to toe, while Scarlet Spider and IF mix it up. And I know people don't want to hear it, but in this scenario, IF could wind up being the weak link. Venom has a lot of options against Cage; he could use ranged attacks to keep Cage at bey (though without doing a ton of damage), whilst utilizing his huge speed advantage to close the distance and continually assaulting Cage, before retreating back to a safe distance. For Venom, In-and-out, over and over. The problem is, we all know Cage has insane durability, and it would take FOREVER for Venom to put him down, and the longer it goes, the more likely for Cage to eventually get a hold of him and let out some serious frustration. I don't see Venom putting down Cage, but he won't have to do it alone, just buy some time. Based upon his regular showings against Peter over the years, I don't think IF is going to be too much trouble for an amped up, and seriously vicious Kaine. Kaine ices IF quicker than IF can charge an attack, and jumps in to help put in a beating on Cage.

Reverse this scenario though, and it gets way worse for the HFH. Iron Fist vs. Venom? Yes please!!! This is the most even of the pairings, and most difficult to predict, because the speed gap is almost negated. For every advantage Venom has in versatility, IF has it all over him in skill and power output. I see IF taking this one with a well-timed chi attack, following a vicious, drawn-out battle. However, whats been happening over on the other side of the arena? Kaine has been toying with, and brutalizing Cage. He could pretty much do as he pleases, while not worrying for one moment about Cage ever touching him. After exiting this battle unscathed, he'd finish off Iron Fist with little difficulty.

Bottom line; Kaine has the perfect skill set to take out either Luke or Danny, and Flash is right there with him. Gladiator fight, Spiders 7/10, any other pairing and the spiders take it 9.5/10

#38 Posted by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider Man team dominates. Very one sided due to webbing, strength, speed, ect ect.

#39 Posted by Patera_All (243 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, the Spiders are just way too versatile, with stats that aren't just high, but even across the board. For every strength Danny and Luke have in one category, they lack big time in another.

#40 Posted by bladewolf (1012 posts) - - Show Bio

In my book, too close to call. Power Man (yes, I still call him that) and Iron Fist definitely have the advantage of years of teamwork and toughness, but honestly I think Scarlet Spider and Venom are much better fighters. Sadly, Kaine and Flash wouldn't work together as well, which is to their detriment. I think the fight could honestly go either way, and it'd depend more on luck (good and bad) than anything.

#41 Edited by ZZoMBiE13 (878 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I gotta go with the Spiders. With the gift of precognition coupled with the agility their powers provides, it's hard to imagine the H4H dealing a deathblow on either of them. That's not to say it wouldn't be an entertaining fight to read, watch or even draw. But after all was said and done I'd still go with the Spiders more often than not.

#42 Posted by Deranged Midget (18229 posts) - - Show Bio

Initially, I'd state that this is a relatively easy win for the Spiders. Taking a second glance, I'd still side with the Spiders but the Heroes for Hire are potentially going to pose more of a problem than some might first believe.

First off, it's evidently clear that the Spiders have a moderately larger physical advantage over Danny and Luke in almost every category. While Luke may still possess the highest degree of strength to a certain point, it will only help him so much considering he's severely lacking in speed and versatility. As seen recently, Kaine is a significant degree stronger than Peter Parker/Ock is as he managed to deck Superior Spider-Man in a single hit and genuinely surprise the Jackal himself, a foe almost entirely knowledgeable on Peter's genetics and capabilities.

Venom(Flash) has been shown to be even stronger than Kaine and even over-powered him, thrusting fear into Kaine's eyes for the first time in his life as he "Vulked out" and nearly killed him as he lost control of the symbiote. Add on to the fact that both Kaine and Venom could easily be described to be in Luke's strength range (or even greater) takes away any initial physical advantage that he may have had, resting his only saving grace to be his "invulnerability".

On the other hand, Danny is considered to be one of the greatest martial artists in the Marvel Universe and the coupling of his Iron Fist makes him a threat to be reckoned with, even to the Spiders. Now to why I believe the Heroes for Hire may pose a greater threat than first appearances may give. Their camaraderie and experience working together is nearly second to none in the Marvel Universe. Working off of each other's strengths and weaknesses only makes them the ever more troublesome and that's the most notable advantage they carry over the Spiders.

As seen previously, Kaine doesn't work well with anyone really and Flash absolutely wasn't an exception. He's a boyscout, praising Spider-Man at any given moment as his inspiration which disappoints Kaine even further as he presents his disgust for his "brother". Flash is known to work in a team environment and adapts well in those situations. Kaine on the other hand, is largely reluctant to do so and even when he does, he continues on selfishly with absolute disregard of his teammate.

In that sense, the Spiders are at a massive disadvantage but due to their physical superiority and greater variety and capabilities with their powers, I'd still edge out their victory.

#43 Edited by GraniteSoldier (10506 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, this is an awesome fight. At a glance I gave it to the Spiders. I thought about it some and shifted to Fist and Cage. Then I thought about it more and I'm back to the Spiders, but not in a landslide. For me to be fair here I had to think about it in terms of these four as individuals and as a team.

As far as teamwork goes, Cage and Fist have the edge absolutely. They have worked together for longer, so will be more familiar with each other's abilities and fighting styles. They also, and this is important, get along pretty much at all times. Venom and Kaine have worked together, but it was briefly and their relationship started out rocky. By the end of their confrontation with Carnage, they were working together, and quite well, but they still had differing styles and approaches (Flash holds back a lot and avoids lethal force if possible whereas Kaine is willing to go all the way from the get-go). If they can stay on the same page, Flash and Kaine are dangerous, very dangerous, but I see hiccups along the way; so teamwork is definitely in Fist and Cage's favor.

In terms of fighting skill, Fist is obviously the most skilled hand to hand fighter of these four. Hell, an argument could be made for in all of comicdom. I'd say Flash is second, he has his conventional and black ops military training, and bested Valkyrie (who's essentially born to fight) in a sparring match. Kaine and Cage are about even. Kaine does not have Peter's Way of the Spider training or knowledge, so he's pretty much a self-taught brawler. Cage is pretty similar.

In physicality, the Spiders take it. Kaine seems to be around 25-30 tons, and Flash has lifted an Abrams tank (68 tons) on its end, meaning he's probably about half that (about 30 tons). Cage is his team's powerhouse at 25-30 tons. Fist can amp his power with his Chi, but it is only for shorter periods of time, and it can leave him mentally and physically expended for a period of time. Both Spiders are also incredibly fast, able to match Spider-Man in their confrontations. Iron Fist is decidedly faster than Cage, and Cage is likely the slowest of the four. It can be argued that Cage will have trouble tagging either spider if they are on their A-game. Flash's physicality is hindered however, as he holds back so much. He is no longer on the symbiote suppression serum, and even though he has shown high levels of control in recent issues while still dishing out some pain, he still often holds back out of fear of losing control. If he does lose it, however, his physicals surpass everyone else's in the fight. In the past his “Vulk” moments meant he went after anyone and everyone, but recently against the symbiote slayers Flash Vulked out (partially I’ll admit as he was still able to speak and control his actions) and was able to direct that power at the slayers and not Toxin. Then, of course, Kaine has his Other persona, which is essentially him amped up and bloodlusted.

In durability, Cage is undoubtedly number one, but Flash is not that far off. Cage’s impenetrable skin makes Kaine’s stingers and Flash’s bullets and symbiote blades less effective, but it does not protect him against their raw power. Cage can be KO’d and either spider has the potential to do so. It is most definitely not a one-shot affair, but it is not unreasonable. Flash sustained massive punishment from Toxin and kept on fighting. He was nearly gutted, was impaled, and smashed from a powerhouse that surpasses all four of these combatants and kept fighting. He has shown resistance to sonics (shrugged off a sonic arrow) and fire (fought Jack O’Lantern in a burning building) which are his primary weaknesses. He has had some lowball feats as well (struggling against Kraven for example) but he was poisoned and very inexperienced at the time, having little to no self-control. Kaine is remarkably tough, although he’s had some lowballs as well such as the werewolves, but he has fought Spider-Man on many occasions and sustained beatings from him. It’s hard for me to judge Kaine’s durability but as a Parker clone I’d say he’s about as durable as Parker. Fist is the weakest durability wise, but he is by no means easily broken. Fist has shown impressive superhuman striking feats, and I find it hard to believe he could pull them off without some degree of superhuman durability.

In variety, in terms of both powers and equipment, the spiders edge. Kaine's stingers, poison, and stealth suit make him a dangerous assassin like opener, not to mention his Other potential. Flash has a plethora of weaponry: pistols, rifles, flashbang grenades and his suits powers. He can shape-shift, mind control, and most recently “loan” a piece of his suit to another individual. Of course, not to mention his “Vulk-outs”. Then of course, there’s the webs. It is not unreasonable to think Cage can break free, but the webs have held powerhouses before. It doesn’t need to hold Fist or Cage permenantly to be affective and throw off their game-plan. Cage and Fist really only bring themselves to the fight, although Fist’s Chi has a wide variety of potential. He can do more than use it to hit things, as he can use it as a ranged weapon as well. One well-placed flashbang, however, can be a swinger, as Fist and Cage have to the best of my knowledge never shown resistance to blinding light and deafening sound. It is not a winner, but it could be a big game changer.

I see one way the fight going like this: Cage is Fist’s tank here. He knows Fist can’t take a great deal of punishment and will open by throwing cars and the like at the spiders to keep them at bay. Kaine stealths and heads into the shadows, and Venom takes to the rooftops to gain the tactical advantage while raining down lead. Fist begins channeling his Chi and takes to throwing ranged energy blasts back on Flash. Kaine opens up with his stingers on Fist, trying to take him out early. At this point, Flash will have noticed his bullets were ineffective against Cage, while Fist had to evade them. Like he did with Toxin, once seeing it’s ineffective he’ll go in to fight it out. He’ll swing in, like he’s going to attack, but instead keep swinging by while dropping a flashbang into the group of three. Yes, it’ll disorient Kaine as well, but Flash probably won’t think much of it as it is non-lethal after all. In the few moments of opening, he web-saturates Cage while moving in on Fist. Fist and Kaine, while both disoriented, are likely to still battle it out in the melee. Kaine does not share Peter’s spider-sense, and will likely take several good shots from an expert fighter like Fist, who fighting blind is nothing new to. This will enrage Kaine into his “Other” mindset (like we saw when Wolverine landed a slice on him) and he will become more savage in his strikes. Flash has webbed up Cage, who would already be working his way out of the webs, and descends upon Fist as well. With both of them on him, Fist won’t last long. The spiders just not need to tunnel vision and remember Cage is there as well (although it might be hard to forget given Cage’s propensity for swearing when he is frustrated) and keep him occupied with webs and symbiote strands. Both spiders are faster and physically stronger than Fist, and as long as he cannot land a solid Chi-empowered strike both will remain in the fight. Even if he did, he goes one for one and is taken down as well. Whoever is left can take their time and wear Cage down and KO him, as Cage alone is not fast enough to tag either Venom or Scarlet Spider.

This is by no means a comprehensive scenario; this could go a hundred different ways. It is also by no means easy for the spider-duo. But I give them a slight margin 6-7/10 wins here. It really depends on how fast they can finish one of either Cage or Fist before their teamwork starts to come into questions. Individually, though, either Flash or Kaine could give both Cage and Fist a handful before going down. Together they are just too much though.

#44 Posted by Wolverine08 (47650 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Edited by TheTrueBarryAllen (7852 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with the Heroes for Hire on this one and am actually in a bit of shock in the difference of votes between the two.

To my knowledge Agent Venom has all of the weaknesses that every symbiote has. These being Fire & Sonics.

Now I know that Luke & Danny won't be running around with any sonic screams, but Danny can harness the power of fire with one of his Iron Fist techniques, that'll I show below.

The Hell's Unfurling Hurricane Technique allows Rand to attack with fists of fire, as we see in the scan it also shoots a burst of flame around him 360 degrees catching anyone near him on fire. Due to Agent Venom's weakness to fire I think this would be his downfall, especially if Kaine & Venom attack at the same time, they're both getting a wave of fire shot towards them.

While Agent Venom is dealing with the Fire it'd most likely slow him down a tad, allowing Luke Cake to give him a good ol' fashioned beatdown. Deranged Midget mentioned earlier that Kaine doesn't work well with anyone so his chemistry with Agent Venom wouldn't be top notch compared to Luke Cage & Iron Fist, one of the best duo's ( in my opinion ) in comic's history.

Kaine shouldn't be much of a problem for Iron Fist & Luke Cage to take down if they don't have to worry about Agent Venom. Luke's durability is intense, it takes adamantium to pierce his skin so he can take punches if Kaine get's in close. Iron Fist's speed has allowed him to tango with Spiderman on more than one occasion, so Kaine shouldn't give him too much trouble.

Rand's fist also has some other impressive feats & his combat ability is incredible.

Ground Pound destroys an entire stone temple.
Demonstration of the famous 'Fastball Special' commonly used by Luke Cage & Iron Fist. It's accurate and deadly.
The incredibly popular Helicarrier scan in which Iron Fist is able to destroy the Helicarrier with a single punch.
The Nuke-Train durability feat.
Taking out 88 S.H.I.E.L.D Agents by himself.

In the end, I think that Iron Fist & Cage have the teamwork abilities and Techniques to take down the Spider Team.

Kaine & Venom's lack of teamwork potential has them at a massive disadvantage, and when going against a team like Luke & Danny you've got to have some incredible teamwork. They may have better stats in terms of strength but I feel that their chemistry in combat would be too weak to create any sort of crippling blow to the Heroes for Hire.

So yeah, that's my opinion.

#46 Edited by GraniteSoldier (10506 posts) - - Show Bio


Thanks, I have a passion for Agent Venom akin to yours for Wolverine.

@thetruebarryallen: Usually these battle of the week polls operate under the assumption that neither side has prior knowledge of the other. If this is the case, how would Fist know to use sonics or fire? Besides, Flash is not so easily removed by sonics or fire. He has recently shrugged off a sonic arrow that connected with him, and erupted while in him. He also fought inside a burning building, after having fire literally belched into his face, and was winning. Plus Iron Fist has typically shown a degree of exhaustion after such powerful techniques. Even if he manages to stun Venom, assuming Venom doesn't just avoid it or fight through it, he'll be exhausted himself. And if we assume prior knowledge, wouldn't Flash and Kaine have the same? Wouldn't Flash know it was coming? He was an Avenger after all, he'd know who Cage and Fist are.

Kaine or Flash alone would be a handful for the Heroes for Hire. Sure they'd eventually win from the 2v1, but the speed, power, and versatility of either would give the Heroes a handful. Together, they'd be too much. This fight starts 20 ft away. Kaine can stealth and speed blitz very fast, and Flash could easily go guerilla and dive into the sewers. The spiders can use the element of surprise. They just have so many options and neither tend to be charge in and scrap types.

#47 Posted by oceanmaster21 (10653 posts) - - Show Bio


#48 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (7852 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@thetruebarryallen: Usually these battle of the week polls operate under the assumption that neither side has prior knowledge of the other. If this is the case, how would Fist know to use sonics or fire? Besides, Flash is not so easily removed by sonics or fire. He has recently shrugged off a sonic arrow that connected with him, and erupted while in him. He also fought inside a burning building, after having fire literally belched into his face, and was winning. Plus Iron Fist has typically shown a degree of exhaustion after such powerful techniques. Even if he manages to stun Venom, assuming Venom doesn't just avoid it or fight through it, he'll be exhausted himself. And if we assume prior knowledge, wouldn't Flash and Kaine have the same? Wouldn't Flash know it was coming? He was an Avenger after all, he'd know who Cage and Fist are.

Kaine or Flash alone would be a handful for the Heroes for Hire. Sure they'd eventually win from the 2v1, but the speed, power, and versatility of either would give the Heroes a handful. Together, they'd be too much. This fight starts 20 ft away. Kaine can stealth and speed blitz very fast, and Flash could easily go guerilla and dive into the sewers. The spiders can use the element of surprise. They just have so many options and neither tend to be charge in and scrap types.

Iron Fist wouldn't be completely drained after such a technique, after reading through the book of the Iron Fist his techniques have become more powerful & he's been able to use them with much more efficiency. If you have scans of those battles with Agent Venom around fire & sonic's I'd love to see them.

Iron Fist wouldn't just do one wave of it either, the fire is around his fist, so he'd be punching Agent Venom with fists... of fire... fists of one of his weaknesses. Just because Flash is an Avenger it doesn't mean he knows every single one of Iron Fist's techniques, plus since he has so many that'd be a rather large and random note for him to have full knowledge of. Also during this point Cage would be with Danny, I don't see why he got ignored in that post, as I said that he'd put the beatdown on Flash after Danny weakened him.

Iron Fist has kept up with Spiderman before, I'm positive he could keep up with Kaine. I don't see a blitz happening too easily. If Flash dives into the sewers it leaves just Kaine to deal with Cage & Danny on the surface until Flash resurfaces.

Cage & Danny's Teamwork > Kaine & Flash's Teamwork

I myself just don't see Kaine & Flash coming up with a strategy that they both agree with to take down the Heroes for Hire, creating chaos for themselves and an easier win for the Heroes.

#49 Posted by Rainja (615 posts) - - Show Bio

Venom and scarlet spider wins.Either one of them could just smother Luke cage with the webbing. Or they could actually brawl with Luke and knock him out. When it comes to Iron fist, I say Kaine could actually get knocked out in hand to hand but he can Webb up Rand and then stab him or assassinate him with some stealth techs. venom could just flash bang rand and shoot him in his head.

#50 Posted by GraniteSoldier (10506 posts) - - Show Bio


Venom 37 and 38 have the images, I don't have a scanner but I'll scour the net some. And I totally agree about Cage's and Fist's teamwork being better, but how are they going to tag either spider? Plus Venom wouldn't need full knowledge of Fist's techniques to know he can generate fire or sound, he just may not know what form. What's to prevent the spiders from doing the basic "web-and-slug"? Sure Cage and likely Fist and break out, but Spidey's webs have slowed down and held serious powerhouses and there's no indication Kaine and Flash's are any weaker. They could just exhaust them with web barrages. It's a cheap win, maybe, but it's a win. I just think their versatility is too great.

I'll try and find those scans online though, unless someone else has a scanner and can get them.