Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Green Arrow vs. Punisher

Slade was fighting the whole justice league....And was distracted by attempting to remove Kyles ring.

You're yet to show how Green Arrow is more skilled, you're just saying he is. You're right though - being dead does count as coming out heavily injured.

Trick Arrows which will be shot out of the air. Franks also got frags and flashbangs to use on Ollie.

Ollie might be able to beat fodder henchmen who use guns, but who has he beaten on Franks level that uses guns? As far as I'm concerned, Frank is just as, or probably more skilled than Green Arrow, but is holding a much bigger stick than him.

Only just thought of this now too - what happens when Punisher shoots and breaks Green Arrows bow?

Too close to call for me.

Frank Castle

@i_like_swords:

how about I show you scans of him defeating Freaking SOLOMON GRUNDY !! :) by shocking him until he passes out.

Gallery

In my opinion, Punisher would win, while Ollie has amazing accuracy and decent fighting skills, Frank has military training, a wider variety of weapons and fighting styles, and can keep his cool longer. So I think he would win

@funckygarcon: Grundy is an unskilled monster. I don't see how that proves GA can out-shoot Frank.

@funckygarcon said:

G

@i_like_swords said:

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

you seem to underestimate Green Arrow. the guy has gone toe to toe with Deathstroke and held his ground. freaking Deathstroke, don't tell me that Frank is even in the same league as him. and if you want feats about green arrow, just dip your fishing pole into the water and you'll find one. instead, i'll do that for you.

Just wanna point out that I made the calculation once, and according to this scan, Oliver can fire approximately 1,200 arrows per second.

Just saying.

@i_like_swords:

yeah an unskilled monster on par with Marvel's Hulk in terms of strength and endurance, forget The Hulk, He's on par with Superman (his punches are stronger than his) + an immortal zombie, and Ollie took him out by strangling him right after stabbing his foot. if that isn't badass enough for you, I don't know what is. simply put, in a projectiles fight, when you have an archer whose whole gimmick is about never missing his shots, Frank can R.I.P

What..? You're telling me Grundy is as durable as Hulk yet an arrow broke his skin? Yeah, okaydoke. If Grundys punches were as strong as Supermans he could of thunderclapped Ollie to death, or created fissures in the ground.

Might be badass, but Grundy is nowhere near Hulk or Superman in physicals. What I'm asking you for is marksmanship skill. Who is more accurate. So far you haven't show much on par with my scans.

Every marksmans "gimmick" is to not miss shots. They tend to avoid doing that. Doesn't mean they can't and haven't missed before.

@funckygarcon: Sorry but your wrong. Grundy is no where near Hulks level at all.

on par with your scans? yeah shooting Devil's billy club and deflecting Cap's shield? those scans? I provided far more scans than you did, each of them proving a different point, not just marksmanship, I showed you intelligence, strength, accuracy, reflexes and if you want marksmanship I could upload a scan where he defeats Red Hood in a swords fight, now that's marksmanship !!! not to mention he blew up Hush and Prometheus with one arrow

Wrestled with it for a while, but give me PUNISHER!

The main reason being they are in character! Punisher wears a bullet proof vest which I would assume could also stop an arrow.

When you couple that with; Punisher will be going for the killshot from the beginning, while GA will be trying to find ways to win without killing Punisher because, again, THEY ARE IN CHARACTER!

Quality over quantity. You didn't really show any of that. You showed Green Arrow shooting arrows into gun barrels, which is impressive. However, Frank shooting DD's billy club and blocking Cap's shield throw is enough to suggest he can react to an arrow.

The last sentence... what? Marksmanship is using projectiles. Sword fighting is called swordsmanship. Which again, has no relevance in a fight between two marksmen.

You're wrong about Punisher.

Punisher only kills when he needs to, or feels that it's warranted. He wouldn't kill Green Arrow in this situation, he'd incapacitate him and move on. Which he knows how to do. He knows all the kill points on the body, as well as where to shoot to incapacitate, and not to kill.

And no, Kevlar can't stop an arrow. It sounds weird, but arrows re different than bullets. Bullets are kind of blunt force mixed with high velocity, whereas arrows pierce. That's why armor piercing bullets are sharper than regular bullets. They're for piercing armor, such as the kevlar that Frank wears.

So, both guys aren't killing unless they need to and neither are tanking arrows/bullets.

okay, I slipped in that one, you're right I got marksmanship confused with swordsmanship. but really Ollie is more accurate with his arrows and more agile too, so he could shoot his arrows while dodging Punisher's bullets, plus his speed would allow him to move and hide to secure places, all he needs then is a clear shot of Punisher's neck, once he gets it. it's game over for him. Ollie when serious, never misses his shots. he will get it right through Frank's windpipe. oh and one last thing, reacting to a billy club thrown by hand and a shield also thrown by hand, isn't a proof that he would dodge an arrow from Oliver Queen, the best marksman in DC

@funckygarcon: Yet you haven't shown Ollie doing any of that to someone of Franks caliber.

I voted too close to call. However I'm leaning towards Ollie. His agility and accuracy stats are superior to Frank's.

going with good ol reliable nut case Frank with this.
ollie's great and all its just. Frank is...relentless.

also if by stating in the rules and the pic

• For Oliver, his equipment is the trick arrows we've seen him use in the New 52 and a fair amount of regular arrows. For Frank, his equipment is a healthy variety of standard firearms and knives.

is that a fair guess that this is new 52 ollie...then definitely Frank. If it was pre 52 then it would be close with ollie probably winning in the end.
But right now Frank would murder Ollie, impaling him with his own arrows through each eye just to send a message to all the archers out there.

From comicvine itself......He is able to access and adapt to just about any situation and turn it to his advantage using only his skills and killer instinct. He has a very high threshold for pain, able to undergo surgery without any kind of anaesthesia, take multiple gunshots and stab wounds and continue fighting, survive multiple explosions that would kill most humans, as well as take hits from superheroes and villains with superhuman strength and continue fighting. The Punisher’s reflexes are second to none he has been shown to be able to shoot Spiderman and super speedsters.

Black Canary once said she saw Oliver shoot 39 arrows in one minute.....

Frank kills Ollie then dies from all those arrow wounds ....

Fastest fight ever

Powers and Abilities

Master Archer

Green Arrow is considered by even the superhuman members of the Justice League to be the "greatest archer in the world." Green Arrow himself states he never misses , and has shot at targets without directly looking at them. Black Canary once said she saw Oliver shoot 39 arrows in one minute. Oliver's aim to so good that he has shown to be able to hit a drop of water coming out of a faucet. He has been able to completely hit on target even in midair or off balance.

Fighting Skills

After the events of One Year later, Ollie completely retrained himself and became an excellent hand to hand combatant as well as a expert weapons handler. He is skilled in judo, kickboxing, karate, and much more. He has received training from Natas and many of the world's greatest teachers.

He sometimes carries a sword around, which he is actually quite skilled in. He has shown to be able to hit arrows directed at him with his sword.

Aviation

Green Arrow is capable of flying planes. He has flown his Arrowplane.

• Acrobatics: He has displayed on many occasions that he is an expert in acrobatics, and often uses this skill while evading enemy fire.
• Archery: Oliver Queen is perhaps the finest archer ever known. He claims to be able to shoot 29 arrows per minute (he stated this himself, in the Sound of Violence story arc, when he corrected Black Canary for saying 26). He has a wide-variety of trick arrows, ranging from bola arrows to time-bomb arrows to his infamous boxing-glove arrow. In recent years he has used these arrows sparingly, preferring the time-tested simple arrow. Green Arrow has shown the ability to shoot an arrow down the barrel of a gun, pierce a drop of water as it leaves a tap, and shoot almost any part of the human body; although he aims only to wound and not kill when he shoots. He once shot two arrows down two different gun barrels while upside down, in mid-flip while somersaulting off a building.^[80]
• Martial Arts: He is proficient in several forms of hand-to-hand combat including Judo, Kickboxing and Karate. Proclaimed as a martial arts master, he has shown the ability to take on seven people at once. He spent several months dedicated to making himself a better fighter and trained with many of the world's finest martial arts teachers and even went through training from Natas, the same person who trained Deathstroke.^[80]
• Hunting: Archery is by far Oliver's preferred method of hunting however the ability to hunt comes from years of training, patience and survival. He is proficient enough in hunting to pursue a cougar without it ever noticing.^[80]
• Politics: Ollie ran for office and became the mayor of Star City for a significant amount of time. He has since resigned from being the mayor and has continued to lean on political issues from time to time.
• Swordsmanship: Ollie is also very proficient with a sword, though it is not his preferred weapon of choice. He has beaten Jason Todd in a sword-fight and has deflected an incoming arrow with the sword he carries.

Weapons and Equipment

Costume

Green Arrow's "jacket" is a form body armor. If he was shot in the chest or from behind, the bullet would not hit Oliver's vital organs due to the armor being bulletproof. The New 52 version of Green Arrow incorporates thermal goggles into his mask.

Trick Arrows

Green Arrow has a wide variety of specialized arrows, ranging from EMP arrows to poison dart arrows and everything in between. Ollie has also developed arrows to combat specific individuals, such as theKryptonite arrow.

Some of his arrows include:

• Standard Arrows
• Boxing Glove Arrows
• Flash Grenade Arrows
• Glue Arrows
• Tear Gas Arrows
• Grappler Arrows

In "The Kill Machine," Ollie is only left with:

• Two Explosive Arrows
• Anti-Riot Arrow (expanding foam)
• One Net Arrow
• One Jammer Arrow
• One Smoke-Bomb Arrow
• One Grappler Arrow

And out come the wiki pages..

@kcvic: only 39 arrows a minute? Isn't he meant to be a superhero? Saracen archers are meant to have been able to fire two arrows a second... Just saying

I've gone for punisher, he would just be more f a dirty fighter, and in fiction the bigger the anti-hero the more likely the win.

For the argument saying Punisher would shoot every arrow, this is total BS. Frank shoot Daredevil stick wich is larger than GA arrow and GA can shoot 39 and more arrow by minute.

I think The Punisher takes this one. He barely takes it, but he takes it none the less.

Green Arrow's greatest strength will be his accuracy. It is said he can fire a maximum of around 39 arrows a minute. He's stopped up guns with arrows.Granted many of these feats that show him blocking the barrels of guns or shooting massive volumes of arrows are against cannon fodder thugs. Punisher is no slouch in accuracy department showing exceptional marksmanship skills, but Green Arrow does edge him out in this regard.

In regards to equipment, I dare say Frank is the more kitted out of the two. Only so many arrows can fit in Ollie's quiver and he's not conservative about how he uses them. Frank on the other hand is known to carry enough ammo on his person to keep up hours long firefights. As fast a shot as Green Arrow is, he simply doesn't have the rate of fire that the Punisher's automatic weapons will be spitting out. Being the more acrobatic of the two, Green Arrow tends to be lighter, so while he does have body armor, it's likely to be much less heavy duty than what the Punisher is running around in.

A lot of people seem to forget how dangerous Frank is in hand-to-hand. He's broken even with Black Widow. Injured and exhausted from fighting an army of H.A.M.M.E.R. troops, he still gave Daken a good fight, scoring several good hits. He's shown an extraordinary durability, being able to walk away from pummelings by the likes of Spider-Man and Daredevil, and not only take the punishment (no pun intended), but keep his wits about him enough to wait for his opening through the blows and take it when it arrives.

In terms of mentality, Green Arrow's dashing heroism is going to get him into trouble. The Punisher isn't going to banter, he isn't going to go easy to begin with and only ramp up his intensity and lethality when he sees how dangerous his opponent is. The Punisher is going to go straight for the kill without any sort of hesitation.

Green Arrow's accuracy and agility are not to be underestimated, but I think the Punisher carries this one by a narrow 6/10 margin.

was gonna say that, shooting a billy club isn't impressive at all. he can't shoot Ollie's arrows. which he shoots fast and accurately. Punisher is probably going to wound Ollie, possibly many deadly wounds, but in the end, it will come down to that one arrow through Frank's neck. also, Green Arrow has been mortally stabbed before and recovered just minutes after it, showing impossible levels of activity for an injured man and he fell down a building, which would kill anyone, and survived it. Frank is simply not in Oliver's league.

Okay so if this was Pre New 52 Ollie, I would say him easily, but New 52 Ollie ain't as good a fighter or shot as what he use to be. This is very close. Okay so lets first analyze the rules. Combatants are in character:This puts Ollie at a slight disadvantage because Ollie in the New 52 has showed a strong sense of conscience. Punisher has never shown too much sense of conscience: he does what needs to get done so Punisher wouldn't hold back. So Ollie = -1 Random Encounter:This puts both of them at a disadvantage because neither of them has time to prepare. Setting:The 40 feet apart deal helps Punisher more than it does Ollie. Its much easier to dodge a arrow at 40 ft than it is to dodge a bullet at 40 ft. But the cover provides this match to last longer than one shot. Both have the agility to move out of the way before they were taken down with one shot. So Ollie I think gets another point off: Ollie = -1. Equipment:Normally guns would trump arrows but Ollie has proven that his skills enable him to match up to anyone with a gun. So it evens out for distance fighting. The only problem is if they got close up and into a fist fight. Ollie has nothing, while Frank has knives with which he is quite skilled with. So Ollie = -1. Now it all comes down to the basics: FightingSkill:Like I said before, Frank wins close up due to his knife fighting capabilities. Frank: +1 Marksmanship:Ollie trumps this one. He has proven, even in the New 52, that he is a crack shot. Ollie: +1 Strength:Honestly, I think Frank wins this one. They are both in top physical condition, but I imagine Frank could lift a lot more. Frank +1 Speed:Ollie wins this one due to how quick he can move (due to his younger age) and how fast he can draw his bow. Ollie: +1. Intelligence:Ollie has proven to be extremely intelligent in the New 52, much more than before Flashpoint. I give Ollie this: +1. So when the math comes together this happens:

Ollie: -1 + -1 + -1 + 1 +1 +1 = 0 points

Frank: 1 + 1 = 2 points.

Result: Frank Castle a.k.a. the Punisher.

impressive analysis, to everyone their opinion I guess but I still stick to my first vote, Green Arrow wins, if you think it will come down to Ollie emptying his quiver you're wrong. Green Arrow can use anything as an arrow plus he's more versatile in terms of projectiles and if all else fails, his hand to hand skills would be enough to at least incapacitate Frank, strategically, Ollie is the better strategist too and his undisputed accuracy would guarantee that he won't empty his quiver in the first place.

@funckygarcon: Wow. Lol

Powers and Abilities

Castle has an extensive background with weapons and hand-to-hand combat and is in peak physical condition. His missions are always well planned, and carried out with the utmost preparation and attention to detail.

He is able to access and adapt to just about any situation and turn it to his advantage using only his skills and killer instinct. He has a very high threshold for pain, able to undergo surgery without any kind of anaesthesia, take multiple gunshots and stab wounds and continue fighting, survive multiple explosions that would kill most humans, as well as take hits from superheroes and villains with superhuman strength and continue fighting. The Punisher’s reflexes are second to none he has been shown to be able to shoot Spiderman and super speedsters.

Castle sticks to a balanced diet based on his military philosophies. He exercises his body and perfects his marksmanship rigorously every two days and is constantly at work as an engineer - fixing, creating and customising his own vehicles, weapons and gadgets.

He knows and is skilled with just about every type of firearm known to man, even able to grasp the most advanced weaponry from SHIELD and other hi-tech organizations. The Punisher is also able to operate superhero and villain custom gear and weaponry being able to fly a goblin glider perfectly as well use Whiplash’s whip without flaw.

The Punisher though does prefer his more traditional armory made up of conventional firearms. He is a skilled point shooter (the ability to fire a gun accurately with both eyes open), as well as hit moving targets in vehicles and heroes and villains with amazing speed and precision as a result of his extensive training and experience. Deadly accurate with sniper rifles, assault rifles and pistols, he has no bother shooting dead a criminal that has a hostage held close at gunpoint.

He is also an accomplished knife fighter, and his hand to hand combat techniques are basic, but effective nonetheless. He improvises his fighting skills with a series of lethal manoeuvers. He is more than capable of killing up to a dozen enemies unarmed; as well as stand toe to toe with some of the greatest martial artists in the Marvel Universe. He is very rarely unarmed, so these skills aren't used often but it is a well-known point that the less options he has to hand, the Punisher only becomes more dangerous.

Castle is also an excellent military tactician/strategist, able to create effective plans on the spot and has repeatedly outwitted even SHIELD, HAMMER and the Avengers - a true master of both conventional and guerilla warfare strategies. Frank using different tactics has been shown to be able to defeat characters that are quite capable of killing him in a heads up fight. The Punisher through strategy has been able to defeat Spiderman, Daredevil, and Wolverine when they teamed up against him on three separate occasions.

Frank Castle has constantly evaded law enforcement officers and national intelligence agencies, only ever giving himself up when he feels the need to infiltrate prison dwelling criminals and gangs. He has also broken in and out of prisons on many occasions.

Punisher has defeated the Hood’s Gang single-handedly and even put down the Hulk. His methods include combat assaults, bombings, ambushes, going undercover using different identities, using the enemies’ money, weapons and supplies against them, creating rivalries between different gangs, and using the city of New York to his advantage, fading in and out of sight with considerable ease. All these skills, apart from those he learned in the military, he taught himself through decades of waging war against criminals. He has a natural mind for warfare.

Castle is an exceptional pilot, having begun training in the skill during his time in airborne. The Punisher has been shown to be able to fly fighter jets, civilian planes, as well as both military and commercial helicopters. He knows many physical torture techniques which enable him to obtain information to continue his war on crime. Frank Castle is extremely skilled at torture and intimidation to gather information.

Through his military training, The Punisher is a qualified Marine, Lurp (Long Range Reconaissance Patrolman), Green Beret, Navy SEAL, Black Ops veteran and Special Forces Sniper. He has worked for SHIELD, assisted the NYPD and many superhero factions - now active with the Thunderbolts, who do the jobs the likes of the Avengers don't see as an immediate world threat, yet would be in short time.

He is a reconnaissance and survival expert, armourer and gunsmith. He modifies his own weapons and is also an expert demolitionist.

He is also a student of Nash-Ryu Ju Jitsu, as taught by Adam Nash in the Marines amongst three other forms of martial arts including Hwarangdo and despite being badly portrayed by writers that don't do their homework, he has held his own against most heroes and villains also including Spider-man, Daredevil and Captain America, who upon first opposing the Punisher, was dismayed to witness him effortlessly defect his shield strike with a rifle.

Equipment and Gear

Frank Castle has used various weapons and equipment throughout the decades of him being the vigilante known as the Punisher. During his early years working with Microchip the Punisher had many battle vans, other armored vehicles, helicopters, planes, submarines, robots (such as the Dalek), and even his own Exo-Armor, he would use in his war against crime.

When Frank Castle had no techie allies in the past, he usually didn’t carry any custom gear; relying solely on military and law enforcement weaponry. When Stuart Clarke became the Punisher’s hacker Frank had access to various Shield tech and confiscated weaponry such as the Satan Claw as well as customized weapons Stuart Clarke made for him.

Later with Henry Russo as his sidekick the Punisher obtained villain and superhero custom gear and weaponry such as a pumpkin bombs, pym particles, Ant-Man's Helmet, etc. that he used in his never ending war. The Punisher will use custom hi-tech gear he’s stolen from others or off of dead enemies though he usually doesn’t have access to this type of gear.

More recently, in Greg Rucka's 2011-12 run, it was portrayed that Frank had learned to customise and repair his own acquired superhero and villain weaponry/artifices, which he did so effectively and with the same amount of difficulty as he would find in simple mechanical work on vehicles. He also later stole a prototype Iron Man suit and booby-trapped it to snare Iron Man after blasting Spider-man and flying Rachel Alves to safety.

The Punisher mostly uses conventional firearms, explosives, and knives. Most of these weapons are confiscated from dead criminals. He keeps these weapons in his bases/garages/warehouses/safe-houses, wherever they may be. He cleans and repairs his guns every other morning after extensive physical training. One of his most favoured is the M60 machine gun, a weapon he has used since Vietnam. Otherwise he was regularly seen over the decades sporting an Uzi 9mm.

His former military weapon of choice was a standard issue M16A1. Castle has kept a basement in the East Side of New York amongst many others in and around city and state. There has been entire comics devoted to chronicling his weaponry, from the late eighties series written by Mike Baron to the Max series by Garth Ennis. Because of his extensive use of the rifle since Vietnam, Castle uses an M16A3 fitted with an M203, despite his dislike of 5.56 Ammunition. His backup of choice is a Derringer D32. His knife of choice is a Gerber Mk2.

Costumes and Belongings

The most common and basic costume is simply a black top with the deaths head symbol spray painted onto it, a pair of black leather trousers, boots and a black leather belt if not utility belts. The second costume is exactly the same, just with a leather or khaki overcoat worn to hide his weapons and of course the skull head symbol. The costume used in the regular 616 continuity is a more generic superhero costume, with a simple black and white color scheme and utilities resembling Nick Fury's classic SHIELD uniform.

On many occasions, Punisher is known to mix up his wardrobe, utilizing his chest armour with military clothing and accessories and otherwise will go out to buy clothes if he feels the need to go undercover.

Frank Castle is known to own safe-houses and secluded acres of land across New York City and New York State. He keeps his seemingly unlimited arsenal of weapons and his vehicles locked up in these locations when he doesn't use them to simply sleep in, study the files on his targets, for target practice or as workshops for modifications and repairs. He pays the rent from the proceedings of crime syndicates he has shut down and uses a vast array of false identifications.

He owns books on human anatomy and military strategies etc and can be seen occasionally reading poetry. The most sentimental piece being the poem, 'The Tyger.' He collects files on criminals and of course often writes his experiences into his famed War Journal. He disposes of anything he cannot use and lives as a minimalist. He used to keep pictures of his family, but not anymore since he finds they distract him from his missions at hand. He flung them off the Brooklyn Bridge at the beginning of his new war.

Here you go, Frank's wiki. I don't know why you posted the wiki? Is that your argument?

@nickzambutosaid:

The CitizenBane trick says "Clintvsnowayyou." I honestly have no idea who the second character can be, and tbh I feel k4 might be tricking us, because to me that looks more like Green Arrow for whatever reason.

Hah! Called it.

Anyway, this is Punisher's battle to win. He's got the training, the experience, and the guile over Oliver Queen, and I'll even go so far as to say he's the better marksman too. Obviously the firearm vs arrow advantage is a huge factor to Frank's victory, but also in terms of pure, absolute tactical accuracy, Punisher is clearly the better here. Plenty of characters have strange hax powers of marksmanship, with really no excuse. For example, if Deadshot has the reaction time to keep track of Owen Mercer mid sprint, how come he can barely perceive Batman when the vigilante comes in for CQC? It's strange, and I feel that Green Arrow falls into the same group (though not to Floyd Lawton's extent). Punisher on the other hand? He has consistently displayed the three things that make a skilled marksman: strategy, reflexes, and raw aim. He has displayed these outside of combat, as well as inside, which is something very rare for comic book marksman. It goes without saying that Frank Castle is one of the leading tactical minds in Marvel, in fact I feel he is very underrated as a matter of fact. It takes a lot of brains to get one over on The Sentry with no prep. This skill directly translates over into Punisher's combat style; he's shot Spider-Man with a pistol by predicting his movements. Then when it comes to reflexes, Frank is actually a pretty good bullet timer contrary to popular belief. He's evaded Stilt-Man's chain gun, dodged a point blank harpoon underwater, and deflected a full power shield toss from Captain America, which goes a lot faster than bullets. Again, he has displayed this in combat by keeping up with Daredevil in CC (several times), despite the more than vast skill disadvantage. And finally, aim. Punisher's aim is more or less perfect, I don't think Green Arrow has anything to compete with shooting out the string holding up a giant billboard hundreds upon hundreds of meters away while at the same time fending off a pissed off Peter Parker.

All these factors in unison form Frank Castle into the world's greatest marksman. By comparison, Green Arrow just has some strange, unexplainable knack with a bow. In terms of actual feats, humiliating Wolverine, pulling his shots and still making Daredevil struggle for survival, and shooting the web shooters off an experienced Spider-Man (he had been kicking villain butt for almost half a decade at that point) trump everything I've seen from Oliver Queen. Like I mentioned, there's the guns vs arrows advantage, and Punisher can probably avoid the trick arrows. Frank also has stealth, pain tolerance, stats, H2H skill, experience, and a bunch of other miscellaneous advantages on his side to secure the win.

I didn't say every single arrow. I also didn't say Frank is going to stand there and try to shoot arrows. DD's Baton is not much larger than an arrow, and the surface area of an arrow point, when compared to the tip of a baton, are very similar.

Frank can probably shoot over quadruple that many bullets. What now?

You obviously don't know who Daredevil is if that's what you think, lol.

Punisher was stabbed in the eye by Red Vulture, slashed all around his body, then dropped several stories down on his back. He got away faster than the police could catch him. He then received no medical attention whatsoever, and used a block of wood as a support for his broken/fractured leg. He also wore an eyepatch after losing his eye. Not one painkiller or trip to the hospital was utilized.

If you think Ollie has Frank beat in durability and pain tolerance, you are horribly mistaken.

You haven't shown or said one thing that puts Green Arrow in Punishers league.

@nickzambuto: And viner argument of the week goes to..

*blush*

Really tough one, but thinking about it, I think that whilst Ollie is more accurate, Punisher's endurance, pain tolerance, and determination will over power lead to him winning

Arrow gets "Punished"!

Going to have to go with the Punisher here: Frank has the singlemindedness and will to do whatever it takes - time and time again he has proved relentless and inimitable in the face of ridiculous odds and horrific pain. He gets the job done no matter what it costs him. (I don't think he'd come out of it in one piece, by any means - but he's used to that).

#

@

This. Both have insane willpower, experience, skill, agility, reflexes, etc... I would go with too close to call, but to quote Professor X: "A good blaster at your side will always overcome an arrow and a hokey religion"

Punisher is a killing machine with a gun. GA is an honor guy with a bow. Castle wins this by burning through a crapton of ammunition

i said green arrow on the other thread now im going with punisher im also voting on badassery

Really good points have been raised but in morals alone I would definitely say Frank

@i_like_swords said:

@funckygarcon said:

G

@i_like_swords said:

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

you seem to underestimate Green Arrow. the guy has gone toe to toe with Deathstroke and held his ground. freaking Deathstroke, don't tell me that Frank is even in the same league as him. and if you want feats about green arrow, just dip your fishing pole into the water and you'll find one. instead, i'll do that for you.

I'm not underestimating him, but nobody had posted any feats for him. I was just giving Frank a case.

He went toe-to-toe with Deathstroke because he planned out the fight down to the wire and caught him off guard. He trained for a year in swordsmanship and general fighting ability, which caught Deathstroke off guard. He then lured him into a trap, and forced him into a pit which glued his feet to the ground. Ollie was wearing shoes which didn't stick. Even with all of that, he let Deathstroke escape. So he prepped for fighting Deathstroke, had his mobility impaired and still couldn't take him down. Not so impressive.

Scan debunking

Scans 1 & 2 are of Green Arrow shooting his arrows into the guns of fodder henchmen. Nobody anywhere near the skill level of Frank. Frank has shot Daredevils billy club at close range and deflected Captain Americas shield throw.

Gallery

So if you think he's not going to be able to react to arrow-fire, you're wrong.

Scan 3, if you can call it that, is just Green Arrow punching Batman. You've not shown the fight or it's context, so there's not much we can take away from that.

Scan 4 - Every street leveller under the sun has dodged gun fire. Not too impressive nowadays.

Scan 5 - Yeah, he can hit a still target from a long distance. So can Frank. However, that bares no relevance to this fight because they both start relatively close, and Green Arrow isn't shooting at a target, and Punisher is shooting back.

Scan 6 - That's nice I guess.. don't see what it brings to this fight though.

this

New 52 trick arrows huh? I'll just put some of them out their then.

Gallery

Scan 1: Explosive arrow

Scan 2: Cryo-Arrow

Scan 3: Airbag-Arrow

Scan 4: Flash-Arrow

Scan 5: Grapple-Arrow

Scan 6: Grapple-Shock-Arrow

Scan 7: Low Grade Nerve-Arrow

Scan 8: Sedative-Arrow

Scan 9-10: Shock-Arrow

Scan 11: Smoke-Arrow

Scan 12: Sonic-Arrow

Scan 13: Tech Arrow

also has ollie ever had a series where he kills his publishers universe.......no

But Frank has

@k4tzm4n We using new 52 feats?

This.

Green Arrow for me.

Green Arrow

It's New 52 Ollie, don't get me wrong N52 Ollie is great, but Punisher has about 20 years of experience over him, statwise Ollie is faster, but Frank is much stronger and has better damage soak, the man's pretty much impervious to pain.

And badassery wins again!

I guess I might have to eat my words now...

( +)