This topic is locked from further discussion.

Posted by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) 11 months, 28 days ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Green Arrow vs. Punisher (513 votes)

Green Arrow 38%
Punisher 54%
Too close to call 7%

Ollie or Frank? If you vote, be sure to say WHY a character earned your support below!

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. They start roughly 40 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire city region is on limits.
  • For Oliver, his equipment is the trick arrows we've seen him use in the New 52 and a fair amount of regular arrows. For Frank, his equipment is a healthy variety of standard firearms and knives.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • My extended thoughts on the match.
  • A Viner Argument in favor of the poll's winner (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • Extra thoughts from other Comic Vine staffers.
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#1 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21870 posts) - - Show Bio

FIRST VOTE GREEN ARROW!

#2 Posted by Wolverine08 (42311 posts) - - Show Bio

Great matchup. Not going to vote yet, but I'm leaning towards Green Arrow here.

Online
#3 Posted by jashro44 (21829 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn this is tough....

#4 Posted by SHAZAM117 (3021 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like Ollie is going to get the majority votes, but my gut is telling to vote for Frank.

.....idk

Awwww hell, Castle ftw

#5 Posted by i_like_swords (14447 posts) - - Show Bio

Before we go any further, I'm just putting it out there.

Bullets > Arrows

Online
#6 Posted by Wolverine08 (42311 posts) - - Show Bio

Before we go any further, I'm just putting it out there.

Bullets > Arrows

It's comics we're talking about here, bullets are jobbers :D

Online
#7 Posted by i_like_swords (14447 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

Before we go any further, I'm just putting it out there.

Bullets > Arrows

It's comics we're talking about here, bullets are jobbers :D

True. Everyone and their grandmother has dodged/deflected gunfire. :p

Online
#8 Posted by i_like_swords (14447 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I should throw this feat up as it half-answers the question "Can Frank shoot arrows mid-flight", to which I think the answer is yes.

Frank was capable of shooting Daredevils thrown billy club, at close range, after it was ricocheted from under a car. Given how fast Daredevil can throw them, the unpredictable nature of the throw, and how close range the throw was, I think it's safe to say that Green Arrow opening up with a barrage of arrows won't do the job. On the same token Green Arrow can probably dodge gunfire, but Punisher isn't just some thug with a pistol.

Online
#9 Posted by Wolverine08 (42311 posts) - - Show Bio

This isn't getting a lot of attention, I guess nobody cares about Green Arrow or Punisher. Lol

Online
#10 Edited by Doomnaut (1993 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher....for the win!

Punisher gives Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Daredevil trouble.

Punisher kills Stilt-Man

#11 Posted by Overlander (521 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote is for Punisher, but the best Castle is still Richard Castle.

#12 Posted by Lvenger (19965 posts) - - Show Bio

Hopefully some good arguments and feats will be posted here later on to sway my judgement. Still leaning towards Ollie's superior marksmanship and array of trick arrows over Frank's gun arsenal.

#13 Posted by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio

@doomnaut: Just fyi this is a random encounter. In that Ennis issue, Frank had prep and much more gear.

Staff
#14 Posted by specialmonkey7 (17 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher, hands down. It would be an amazing fight with bullets and arrows peppering the air. Blood would flow on both ends but when it really comes down to it; Ollie Queen doesn't have the fire in his heart that Frank Castle does. Sure, he has the spirit, he has the drive to do good but Frank Castle is a machine at this point. He is the angel of death and his mission is the destruction of crime in general and he can't let anything stand in his way. Though he wouldn't kill Ollie, Frank would make sure that he stayed down before it was over. Ollie knows arrows, Frank knows almost everything else AND arrows....

#15 Posted by Wolverine08 (42311 posts) - - Show Bio

May we not use Garth Ennis written Punisher stories where he lowballs people like Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hullk, etc. just to pump up Castle to try just Punisher winning?

Online
#16 Posted by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow

he's more experienced, more agile, more accurate with targets, better trained, a high class of escape artist and he has dodged heavy weaponry many times before. I give this to Green Arrow, however that doesn't mean that he will win easily, it's absolutely the opposite, you can guarantee he will get out of this encounter with a life-threatening injury or heavily wounded. Green Arrow will have to rely on his accuracy in shooting arrows from far away, because in close-range, Frank Castle will smoke him with his heavy weapons.

but there's something the OP didn't mention, how about their morals? I don't have to question The Punisher's morals, because he doesn't have any. how about Green Arrow? is he willing to kill?

#17 Edited by i_like_swords (14447 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow

he's more experienced, more agile, more accurate with targets, better trained, a high class of escape artist and he has dodged heavy weaponry many times before. I give this to Green Arrow, however that doesn't mean that he will win easily, it's absolutely the opposite, you can guarantee he will get out of this encounter with a life-threatening injury or heavily wounded. Green Arrow will have to rely on his accuracy in shooting arrows from far away, because in close-range, Frank Castle will smoke him with his heavy weapons.

but there's something the OP didn't mention, how about their morals? I don't have to question The Punisher's morals, because he doesn't have any. how about Green Arrow? is he willing to kill?

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

Online
#18 Edited by TheManInTheShoe (3878 posts) - - Show Bio

this is a hard one, but I have to go with Punisher.

#19 Edited by OreoAssassin (4959 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher. I would give reasons but @i_like_swords: has already given good reasons to prove that Punisher wins.

Online
#20 Posted by cameron83 (7331 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher, hands down. It would be an amazing fight with bullets and arrows peppering the air. Blood would flow on both ends but when it really comes down to it; Ollie Queen doesn't have the fire in his heart that Frank Castle does. Sure, he has the spirit, he has the drive to do good but Frank Castle is a machine at this point. He is the angel of death and his mission is the destruction of crime in general and he can't let anything stand in his way. Though he wouldn't kill Ollie, Frank would make sure that he stayed down before it was over. Ollie knows arrows, Frank knows almost everything else AND arrows....

this

@funckygarcon said:

Green Arrow

he's more experienced, more agile, more accurate with targets, better trained, a high class of escape artist and he has dodged heavy weaponry many times before. I give this to Green Arrow, however that doesn't mean that he will win easily, it's absolutely the opposite, you can guarantee he will get out of this encounter with a life-threatening injury or heavily wounded. Green Arrow will have to rely on his accuracy in shooting arrows from far away, because in close-range, Frank Castle will smoke him with his heavy weapons.

but there's something the OP didn't mention, how about their morals? I don't have to question The Punisher's morals, because he doesn't have any. how about Green Arrow? is he willing to kill?

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

And I agree,I personally think that Punisher is much more experienced. Not even counting his experience with War,the dude has basically (in his war on crime) made some of the most kills in the Marvel Universe and also means that he's been in the game for quite a long time.

#21 Edited by i_like_swords (14447 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@funckygarcon said:

Green Arrow

he's more experienced, more agile, more accurate with targets, better trained, a high class of escape artist and he has dodged heavy weaponry many times before. I give this to Green Arrow, however that doesn't mean that he will win easily, it's absolutely the opposite, you can guarantee he will get out of this encounter with a life-threatening injury or heavily wounded. Green Arrow will have to rely on his accuracy in shooting arrows from far away, because in close-range, Frank Castle will smoke him with his heavy weapons.

but there's something the OP didn't mention, how about their morals? I don't have to question The Punisher's morals, because he doesn't have any. how about Green Arrow? is he willing to kill?

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

And I agree,I personally think that Punisher is much more experienced. Not even counting his experience with War,the dude has basically (in his war on crime) made some of the most kills in the Marvel Universe and also means that he's been in the game for quite a long time.

Yeah, exactly. Frank is pretty much Marvels answer to the old guy swinging his walking stick going "get off my lawn! damn youngsters.."

Except instead of an old man, it's the Punisher, and instead of a walking stick, it's an M60 XD

Online
#22 Posted by cameron83 (7331 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

@i_like_swords said:

@funckygarcon said:

Green Arrow

he's more experienced, more agile, more accurate with targets, better trained, a high class of escape artist and he has dodged heavy weaponry many times before. I give this to Green Arrow, however that doesn't mean that he will win easily, it's absolutely the opposite, you can guarantee he will get out of this encounter with a life-threatening injury or heavily wounded. Green Arrow will have to rely on his accuracy in shooting arrows from far away, because in close-range, Frank Castle will smoke him with his heavy weapons.

but there's something the OP didn't mention, how about their morals? I don't have to question The Punisher's morals, because he doesn't have any. how about Green Arrow? is he willing to kill?

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

And I agree,I personally think that Punisher is much more experienced. Not even counting his experience with War,the dude has basically (in his war on crime) made some of the most kills in the Marvel Universe and also means that he's been in the game for quite a long time.

Yeah, exactly. Frank is pretty much Marvels answer to the old guy swinging his walking stick going "get off my lawn! damn youngsters.."

Except instead of an old man, it's the Punisher, and instead of a walking stick, it's an M60 XD

LMFAO XD

I mean,no doubt that Ollie is also very skilled (not only because of his Island experience but because he fights crime on the streets),it's just that (especially in terms of the latter),Green Arrow doesn't really hold a candle to him.

#23 Posted by Shallbecomeabattoo (368 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm... Haven't voted yet.

IF Frank had any reason to think Ollie deserved to be punished (by death, of course), he would win this. 100%. He is always much more in the game when he has a target in front of him that he wants to kill. Foghting other heroes is something where he struggles.

But without that edge, I would give it to Ollie... I think.

#24 Posted by ghost_runner (277 posts) - - Show Bio

punisher. Hes more experienced, he have a more tactical mind, and can definitely take arrow on in close range (he has knives for that)

sure arrow has his trick arrows, but pinisher has a heavy variety of fire arms plus punisher isnt afraid to maim or even kill green arrow.

This is the most important point; Rate Of Fire! it doesnt matter how fast arrow is hes only human, he can only fire his arrows so fast, punisher again has the advantage here. He has guns, rapid fire fully automatic guns! need i say more?


#25 Posted by Beerminator1 (354 posts) - - Show Bio

In this situation, Punisher

#26 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

Frank is a beast!

#27 Posted by Komicsdude79 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher is an ex-military, a war hero - and cold blooded fighter... He is a winner !

#28 Edited by Lordofdarkness1978 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher. He has the training,the will,the killer instinct,and tbf,probably a higher pain threshold. I could see Castle taking multiple arrows,and still be in a fit shape to contest this fight. Queen,tough as he is,I just don't think could say the same....

#29 Posted by mister garbage (365 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to give this to the Punisher. While Green Arrow is incredibly skilled and has enough trick arrows and aim to put nearly anyone down, Frank has the experience over him. He's seen it all. He's taken on Hawkeye and probably a dozen other archers time and time again, and would likely be able to adapt to being shot at by crazy-ass arrows. Frank can take a ridiculous amount of damage and keep on going through sheer will/determination. He's also willing/determined to see his hunt through to the bitter, bloody end. Hel, he nearly took out the Avengers recently, just about on his own.

Additionally, OIiver seems the type to get a little cocky (much like a lot of the archers in comics) from time to time and would probably view this as an easy finish, somehow looking to trap the Punisher with a trick arrow right off the bat. If his first shot isn't a lethal blow, he's likely done for the minute he goes in to apprehend his prey, if Frank doesn't escape sooner.

#30 Posted by ghost_runner (277 posts) - - Show Bio

punisher. Hes more experienced, he have a more tactical mind, and can definitely take arrow on in close range (he has knives for that)

sure arrow has his trick arrows, but pinisher has a heavy variety of fire arms plus punisher isnt afraid to maim or even kill green arrow.

This is the most important point; Rate Of Fire! it doesn't matter how fast arrow is hes only human, he can only fire his arrows so fast, punisher again has the advantage here. He has guns, rapid fire fully automatic guns! need i say more?

#31 Edited by SynCig (441 posts) - - Show Bio

This is probably the closest match-up so far in my opinion. I am having a hard time even picking a winner here so I say too close to call.

#32 Posted by angelalfonso (1032 posts) - - Show Bio

@komicsdude79:

The Punisher is an ex-military, a war hero - and cold blooded murderer... He is a winner !

#33 Posted by superior_prime_maybe (375 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if we consider their skills equal i think Frank gets points on his rage.

But is Frank trying to kill Olliver?

#34 Posted by clemj (817 posts) - - Show Bio

if no morals, green arrow wins,

if morals, too close to call, their skills are pretty equivalent, and their fighting style in close range, even if they are different, is complementary

#35 Posted by Xwraith (18253 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this explains my choice well enough.

#36 Posted by CheeseSticks (2476 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith said:

I think this explains my choice well enough.

This

#37 Edited by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

G

@i_like_swords said:

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

you seem to underestimate Green Arrow. the guy has gone toe to toe with Deathstroke and held his ground. freaking Deathstroke, don't tell me that Frank is even in the same league as him. and if you want feats about green arrow, just dip your fishing pole into the water and you'll find one. instead, i'll do that for you.

no need to say anything

blocked two guns barrels with two arrows. which means that he can shoot arrows simultaneously and also faster than someone who shoots bullets

owning Batman before even training with Deathstroke's mentor. and this fight eventually came to a tie

dodges heavy artillery fire

hits a target from several football pitches away

he ties a man with an arrow, from the other side of a wall

#38 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20254 posts) - - Show Bio

@funckygarcon: Green Arrow is NOT Batman's equal when it comes to hand-to-hand combat. That was either bad writing or PIS. Green Arrow at the most can hang his own against Bruce for a while, but nothing more.

#39 Edited by jwalser3 (5027 posts) - - Show Bio

Frank.

#40 Posted by KingStandup (64 posts) - - Show Bio

I am so bias toward Frank Castle and to be perfectly honest my initial reaction was, "Seriously? The Punisher will destroy this guy!" Or something to that effect. Anyway, since I am not too familiar with the Green Arrow, I figured it would be wise to read up on him a bit first. Eventually, I decided (well, bias kicked in again) that I was sticking with the Punisher. Frank Castle is relentless and ultimately he would win this one.

#41 Posted by LCazT1996 (532 posts) - - Show Bio

Awww man I was really expecting it to be Big Amorphous Blob instead of Punisher. Oh well.

#42 Posted by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@funckygarcon: Green Arrow is NOT Batman's equal when it comes to hand-to-hand combat. That was either bad writing or PIS. Green Arrow at the most can hang his own against Bruce for a while, but nothing more.

if he can hang with Bruce Wayne, one of the best martial artists in DC. that gives you an idea about how much it would take him to defeat The Punisher who's inferior to Green Arrow in martial arts, agility, accuracy and multi tasking.

#43 Posted by i_like_swords (14447 posts) - - Show Bio

G

@i_like_swords said:

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

you seem to underestimate Green Arrow. the guy has gone toe to toe with Deathstroke and held his ground. freaking Deathstroke, don't tell me that Frank is even in the same league as him. and if you want feats about green arrow, just dip your fishing pole into the water and you'll find one. instead, i'll do that for you.

I'm not underestimating him, but nobody had posted any feats for him. I was just giving Frank a case.

He went toe-to-toe with Deathstroke because he planned out the fight down to the wire and caught him off guard. He trained for a year in swordsmanship and general fighting ability, which caught Deathstroke off guard. He then lured him into a trap, and forced him into a pit which glued his feet to the ground. Ollie was wearing shoes which didn't stick. Even with all of that, he let Deathstroke escape. So he prepped for fighting Deathstroke, had his mobility impaired and still couldn't take him down. Not so impressive.

Scan debunking

Scans 1 & 2 are of Green Arrow shooting his arrows into the guns of fodder henchmen. Nobody anywhere near the skill level of Frank. Frank has shot Daredevils billy club at close range and deflected Captain Americas shield throw.

So if you think he's not going to be able to react to arrow-fire, you're wrong.

Scan 3, if you can call it that, is just Green Arrow punching Batman. You've not shown the fight or it's context, so there's not much we can take away from that.

Scan 4 - Every street leveller under the sun has dodged gun fire. Not too impressive nowadays.

Scan 5 - Yeah, he can hit a still target from a long distance. So can Frank. However, that bares no relevance to this fight because they both start relatively close, and Green Arrow isn't shooting at a target, and Punisher is shooting back.

Scan 6 - That's nice I guess.. don't see what it brings to this fight though.

Online
#44 Posted by i_like_swords (14447 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@funckygarcon: Green Arrow is NOT Batman's equal when it comes to hand-to-hand combat. That was either bad writing or PIS. Green Arrow at the most can hang his own against Bruce for a while, but nothing more.

if he can hang with Bruce Wayne, one of the best martial artists in DC. that gives you an idea about how much it would take him to defeat The Punisher who's inferior to Green Arrow in martial arts, agility, accuracy and multi tasking.

So what if he can "hang with" Batman? Punisher has "hung with" Daredevil, who is by all accounts Batman's equal in fighting skill. Just because you can hang with them doesn't mean you can then say he can beat another person. Aside from that, I would of thought this would be a long ranged fight, not in hand-to-hand.

Online
#45 Posted by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@funckygarcon said:

G

@i_like_swords said:

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

you seem to underestimate Green Arrow. the guy has gone toe to toe with Deathstroke and held his ground. freaking Deathstroke, don't tell me that Frank is even in the same league as him. and if you want feats about green arrow, just dip your fishing pole into the water and you'll find one. instead, i'll do that for you.

I'm not underestimating him, but nobody had posted any feats for him. I was just giving Frank a case.

He went toe-to-toe with Deathstroke because he planned out the fight down to the wire and caught him off guard. He trained for a year in swordsmanship and general fighting ability, which caught Deathstroke off guard. He then lured him into a trap, and forced him into a pit which glued his feet to the ground. Ollie was wearing shoes which didn't stick. Even with all of that, he let Deathstroke escape. So he prepped for fighting Deathstroke, had his mobility impaired and still couldn't take him down. Not so impressive.

Scan debunking

Scans 1 & 2 are of Green Arrow shooting his arrows into the guns of fodder henchmen. Nobody anywhere near the skill level of Frank. Frank has shot Daredevils billy club at close range and deflected Captain Americas shield throw.

So if you think he's not going to be able to react to arrow-fire, you're wrong.

Scan 3, if you can call it that, is just Green Arrow punching Batman. You've not shown the fight or it's context, so there's not much we can take away from that.

Scan 4 - Every street leveller under the sun has dodged gun fire. Not too impressive nowadays.

Scan 5 - Yeah, he can hit a still target from a long distance. So can Frank. However, that bares no relevance to this fight because they both start relatively close, and Green Arrow isn't shooting at a target, and Punisher is shooting back.

Scan 6 - That's nice I guess.. don't see what it brings to this fight though.

you're wrong about the deathstroke fight I mean. I'm talking about how he incapacitated Deathstroke in Identity Crisis. and about the barrel blocking thing? I think a barrel ready to spit out a bullet being blocked by an arrow is far more impressive than shooting a billy club. oh and he blocked two barrels simultaneously with one shot. you can't deny that Ollie is more skilled than Frank Castle.

#46 Posted by GhostRavage (8962 posts) - - Show Bio

Good arguments, mmm... Punisher has my vote.

#47 Posted by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not saying this fight will be a walk in the park for Oliver. I'm not underestimating Frank. It's just that Oliver is more skilled overall and will win this fight thanks to his unmatched accuracy in shooting arrows. I did say that Oliver will get out of this fight heavily injured and possibly with deadly wounds, cuz The Punisher ain't no push over.

#48 Posted by bladewolf (760 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow by a landslide. Though Frank may know weaponry, GA has an arsenal of wild tricks I guarantee he's never even thought of before. There are DOZENS of different arrows Ollie can call on. Not only that, Ollie is much more agile which will help out in a fire fight. Also, anyone who says "BUT THE PUNISHER USES GUNS!" needs to go home: Queen is the king of beating enemies armed with automatic weaponry (sorry, couldn't resist). He's taken down numerous gunmen on his own before (most recently seen in Issue 22 of his solo series).

#49 Edited by i_like_swords (14447 posts) - - Show Bio

@funckygarcon said:

@i_like_swords said:

@funckygarcon said:

G

@i_like_swords said:

How is he more experienced? Lol Also, it's debatable who is more accurate "with targets". Sure, a still-non moving target would be easy for either of them to hit, but a moving target is more important. I already gave the feat of Frank shooting Daredevils baton mid-flight - what has Ollie done in comparison? What are his best marksmanship feats and what credible marksman has he dodged gunfire from?

you seem to underestimate Green Arrow. the guy has gone toe to toe with Deathstroke and held his ground. freaking Deathstroke, don't tell me that Frank is even in the same league as him. and if you want feats about green arrow, just dip your fishing pole into the water and you'll find one. instead, i'll do that for you.

I'm not underestimating him, but nobody had posted any feats for him. I was just giving Frank a case.

He went toe-to-toe with Deathstroke because he planned out the fight down to the wire and caught him off guard. He trained for a year in swordsmanship and general fighting ability, which caught Deathstroke off guard. He then lured him into a trap, and forced him into a pit which glued his feet to the ground. Ollie was wearing shoes which didn't stick. Even with all of that, he let Deathstroke escape. So he prepped for fighting Deathstroke, had his mobility impaired and still couldn't take him down. Not so impressive.

Scan debunking

Scans 1 & 2 are of Green Arrow shooting his arrows into the guns of fodder henchmen. Nobody anywhere near the skill level of Frank. Frank has shot Daredevils billy club at close range and deflected Captain Americas shield throw.

So if you think he's not going to be able to react to arrow-fire, you're wrong.

Scan 3, if you can call it that, is just Green Arrow punching Batman. You've not shown the fight or it's context, so there's not much we can take away from that.

Scan 4 - Every street leveller under the sun has dodged gun fire. Not too impressive nowadays.

Scan 5 - Yeah, he can hit a still target from a long distance. So can Frank. However, that bares no relevance to this fight because they both start relatively close, and Green Arrow isn't shooting at a target, and Punisher is shooting back.

Scan 6 - That's nice I guess.. don't see what it brings to this fight though.

you're wrong about the deathstroke fight I mean. I'm talking about how he incapacitated Deathstroke in Identity Crisis. and about the barrel blocking thing? I think a barrel ready to spit out a bullet being blocked by an arrow is far more impressive than shooting a billy club. oh and he blocked two barrels simultaneously with one shot. you can't deny that Ollie is more skilled than Frank Castle.

Well why don't you either give the fight some clear context or better yet, pull up some scans. Even take some pictures of it.

Green Arrow didn't shoot his arrow faster than the bullet could leave the barrel. He fired his arrow either before, or just as a fodder henchman could pull the trigger. Frank shooting a billy club from one of the top-tier, best fighters in Marvel is leagues more impressive, especially given the fact DD ricocheted the shot from under a car, and it was close range.

Yes, I can deny Ollie is more skilled. I'll refuse denying that when you actually pull up some scans that are either relevant, or put Ollie in the same league as Frank.

Online
#50 Posted by OreoAssassin (4959 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn these are some good points:D sticking with Frank still

Online