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Posted by k4tzm4n (36433 posts) 10 months, 19 days ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Gambit vs. Nightcrawler (459 votes)

Gambit 29%
Nightcrawler 65%
Too close to call 6%
Remy or Kurt? GET YOUR ELABORATION ON, VINERS!

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character (this means morals are on, people).
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 20 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc..
  • All characters have standard gear.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.
  • "But Nightcrawler is dead" isn't an original comment. This is obviously pre-death Kurt.
  • And speaking of death, Gambit's horseman powers will not come into play.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • My extended thoughts on the match.
  • A Viner Argument in favor of the poll's winner (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • Extra thoughts from other Comic Vine staffers.
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#1 Edited by i_like_swords (13201 posts) - - Show Bio

First!

#2 Edited by tparks (4367 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Nightcrawler. I also think this might be one of the most one sided battles so far from these Battles of the Week. Gambit and Nightcrawler are probably about even with fighting skills. Remmy has the ranged advantage (which counts for little against a teleporter) with throwing cards or any other objects he can pick up, charge, then throw. Remmy also has an advantage with his staff.

With all of that being said, I don't think Remmy is skilled enough to stop Nightcrawler from doing a quick TP behind him, getting a shot in on Gambit's unprotected back of the head, TP'ing away, TP'ing back to his side or behind him so he doesn't get predictable, getting another shot in, TP'ing away, rinse and repeat.

#3 Posted by darkbeam (2152 posts) - - Show Bio

I say Gambit

#4 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2295 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightcrawler!

#5 Posted by JimmyOlsen1 (151 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambit

#6 Posted by Wolverine08 (38836 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Gambit here.

Online
#7 Posted by teclo (34 posts) - - Show Bio

Unglaublich!

#8 Posted by jwalser3 (4797 posts) - - Show Bio

NightCrawler. Can Gambit even react if he teleports behind him?

#9 Posted by k4tzm4n (36433 posts) - - Show Bio

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Elaboration.

Elaboration who?

ELABORATION IS REQUIRED, VINERS.

Staff
#10 Posted by Life_Without_Progress (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Nightcrawler . Sure Gambit has some pretty sweet powers but they're not that good up close and he has some good melee combat with his Bo staff but Nightcrawler's Speed, Agility and Teleportation are just too much for Gamit

#11 Posted by arw1985 (39 posts) - - Show Bio

Even though I like Kurt over Gambit, I think Gambit could take him.

#12 Posted by Overlander (431 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightcrawler has teleportation and superior agility. Remy's luck will run out when Kurt BAMF!s in from behind and cold cocks him into humiliated unconsciousness where he belongs.

#13 Posted by bladewolf (614 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Gambit, but I have to be honest: Nightcrawler takes it. In my opinion, teleportation is the best superpower out there, assuming you only get one. Sure, Gambit is great at hand-to-hand and could easily charge objects to try and take Kurt out, but I get the feeling Nightcrawler is smart and skilled enough to predict Gambit's moves and hit him when he least expects it. You may argue that Gambit will throw objects in places he thinks Nightcrawler will appear, but I feel that, given the seemingly limitless options afforded by teleportation, the chances of that are slim to none. Also, Gambit isn't exactly winner of the Durable Olympics: a good, solid punch to the back of the skull from Kurt will leave Remy out cold. I'd say Nightcrawler takes this 9/10 times, only losing if Gambit gets really lucky.

#14 Posted by k4tzm4n (36433 posts) - - Show Bio

*waits for someone to post the scan of Gambit beating the Nightcrawler robot*

Staff
#15 Posted by G_Money_Christmas (881 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry Gambit, you're one of my favorite X-Men, but Nightcrawler can dance around you and teleport you into the middle of the ocean (unless the battle has to stay in the same location).

@k4tzm4n Does the battle have to stay in the city? Can Kurt teleport Gambit anywhere?

#16 Posted by k4tzm4n (36433 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry Gambit, you're one of my favorite X-Men, but Nightcrawler can dance around you and teleport you into the middle of the ocean (unless the battle has to stay in the same location).

@k4tzm4n Does the battle have to stay in the city? Can Kurt teleport Gambit anywhere?

Why would an in character Kurt even bother to do that in such a scenario? And no, the fight stays in the city.

Staff
#17 Edited by MatteoPG (1921 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Elaboration.

Elaboration who?

ELABORATION IS REQUIRED, VINERS.

Lol, thank you, I was falling asleep reading the first comments.

I am writing a long essay on the matter before voting, and I want to hear the opinion of someone more versed into to Nightcrawler-logia first.

#18 Edited by k4tzm4n (36433 posts) - - Show Bio
@matteopg said:

@k4tzm4n said:

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Elaboration.

Elaboration who?

ELABORATION IS REQUIRED, VINERS.

Lol, thank you, I was falling asleep reading the first comments.

I am writing a long essay on the matter before voting, and I want to hear the opinion of someone more versed into to Nightcrawler-logia first.

Hopefully we'll see more of that soon -- you know, from someone who's clearly leaving bias at the door.

Staff
#19 Edited by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Gambits supercharges could one shot Nightcrawler the trick is getting a solid hit on him but i think he can do it

Future battle
Daredevil vs Wildcat

before i here Daredevil is to fast wildcat as knocked out Jay (flash) like 3 times so it should be a fair match just throwing it out there

#20 Posted by jashro44 (19756 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3 said:

NightCrawler. Can Gambit even react if he teleports behind him?

I don't see why not.

#21 Posted by OrphanCrippler (206 posts) - - Show Bio

i see Gambit one-shot him just like Scott. Wagner was always terrible in terms of battle strategy and overall usage of his powers.

#22 Posted by CheeseSticks (2388 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops can predict where Kurt will teleport and Gambit has better reflexes than Cyke. I don't see why Gambit couldn't predict Kurt teleportation since he also trained a lot with Kurt.

Online
#23 Posted by TDK_1997 (14467 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote goes to Nightcrawler.As much as I love Gambit I don't think he can handle the Elf.First of all he has the speed advantage and also the powerset advantage.Remy may be fast and he can dodge things being thrown at him or hits but I don't think he can predict where the Elf will come from and how exactly he will attack him.Nightcrawler might be caught off guard but that won't be enough to exactly put him down.It might be a quick win for Nightcrawler or a long hard battle in which he will eventually win.

#24 Posted by RazzaTazz (9479 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: I am thinking of an elaborate defense of my opinion after being ignored last week.

Moderator
#25 Posted by TheManInTheShoe (3876 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure but I think Nightcrawler can take this.

#26 Edited by leokearon (1762 posts) - - Show Bio

Multiple bamfs hit Gambit before he can throw a card, Gambit goes down. Kurt for the win

#27 Posted by ASHTONRED6 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

Riddick vs Predator

#28 Posted by kcvic (44 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Kurt get swords as standard gear? Is this the regular Kurt or the AOA Kurt who would just take Remy apart faster and in pieces .......nightcrawler for the win gambit has no chance ....maybe if he caught Kurt praying or sleeping

#29 Posted by Doomnaut (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Bamf!

#30 Posted by nigravirum1 (143 posts) - - Show Bio

This one doesnt even deserve an explanation.... easily Nightcrawler... Gambit ain't intelligent enough to predict Kurt

#31 Edited by TheAmazingImmortalMan (2674 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to start by saying I'm a of both X-Men. If we are talking about physicals both characters are pretty even as far as stregnth and speed goes but Kurt is definatley more agile. That doesn't mean Gambit is a slouch in terms of agility because there are very few other characters who beat him agility and NC happens to be one of them. That agility coupled with Kurt's mutant teleporting powers give him a big advantage in this fight. t will also cancel out Remy's advantage of ranged attacks. Remy will make this interesting with his charged up cards and bo staff, he could most likely one shot Kurt if he gets a clean blow with the staff or a charged up projectile, but getting a clean shot will be very difficult. Other X-Men have figured out how to stop Kurt (ie Cykes, Wolvie) but Gambit isn't tactical or as much of a strategist as those who have.

I feel this would be a long drawn out battle with alot of agility and finesse, but end result would have NightCrawler standing victorious.

#32 Edited by k4tzm4n (36433 posts) - - Show Bio
@kcvic said:

Does Kurt get swords as standard gear? Is this the regular Kurt or the AOA Kurt who would just take Remy apart faster and in pieces .......nightcrawler for the win gambit has no chance ....maybe if he caught Kurt praying or sleeping

No and it's 616 Kurt.

@nigravirum1 said:

This one doesnt even deserve an explanation.... easily Nightcrawler... Gambit ain't intelligent enough to predict Kurt

Actually, he's proven he has a tactic for it when he fought a robot version of Kurt. He immediately ducked and created several small explosions directly above him.

Staff
#33 Edited by Dernman (14763 posts) - - Show Bio

The way I see it is both have nice melee skill. Gambit with his staff and Nightcrawler his sword. Both are agile and both have speed. Now it might be questionable who exactly is the faster of the two there is no doubt in my mind that when it comes to agility Nightcrawler comes out the better. Gambit's power to supercharge things so they explode is for keeping some at a distance but when that person can teleport it's not going to matter much. With a city full of obstacles both can easily work to their advantage. What I think the battle will truly come down to is Nightcrawler's teleportation and Gambit's cleverness. Now I can easily see Gambit thinking of several ways to maneuver the fight for a win it will always be gamble leaving Nightcrawler the majority of wins through teleportation.

#34 Edited by darkbeam (2152 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on viners Gambit pretty much has 52 granades.You can't tell me that at least one will hit, and he gets them out fast with perfect accuracy.

#35 Posted by Kerrigan (213 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambit throws his cards. Kurt teleports behind Gambit, grabs him, does his several-quick-ports-in-a-row trick, and Gambit collapses puking on the ground.

Might take a little longer than that: Remy defended himself against a robot Kurt by throwing explosions above him in anticipation of a teleportation attack, but real Kurt would be smart enough to predict that. Nightcrawler has the agility and power set to avoid Gambit's ranged attacks, and he only has to grab Gambit once to start the port chain. Nightcrawler wins more times than not.

#36 Posted by Jmenna07 (14 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with too close to call on this one. Nightcrawler could teleport his way to victory just as easily as Gambit could light up the whole place with explosion after explosion. I think what it comes down to is hand-to-hand combat and both are exceptional hand-to-hand combatants. Either one could gain the upper hand and take it but it's just too hard to tell who that could be. It's really anyone's game.

#37 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

The characters' respective speed and agility are too close to call; Gambit being a "former" thief has honed his power and skills for the purposes of evasion and escape, Kurt, on the other hand, being an X-Man for far longer than Gambit, has honed his his power and skills for offensive as well as defensive purposes. Therefore, I can see Gambit staying mobile, flipping, vaulting, etc. to keep Kurt from getting the teleportational jump on him - he may even enter a building where Kurt's line-of-sight is greatly inhibited thereby negating his ability to teleport altogether. However, Kurt can also use the shadows and darkness to his advantage - with his shadow-blending ability.

While Remy may be able to withstand Kurt's teleportation, agility and speed, with this battle taking place at night however, I think it's Kurt's stealth advantage that wins him the day.

#38 Posted by wbr17 (176 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Gambit use charm on Kurt?

#39 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20198 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambit

He can charge his Bo staff with enough kinetic energy and power to level a house. During combat, Gambit customarily wears a suit of highly articulated light body armor and uses an extendable metal staff. He is extensively trained in martial arts, particularly French kick-boxing or Savate and the staff style art Bojutsu. He is an excellent hand-to-hand combatant, applying street-fighting techniques and acrobatics. He is also a skilled duelist and fencer. Gambit is able to charge living beings now, Gambit is also able to heal himself by stimulating his cellular activity, although this ability has only been demonstrated once.

Nightcrawler

In addition to his primary power of teleportation, Nightcrawler's physiology is unique in several different ways. His agility far surpasses that of an Olympic level gymnast, and his bone structure allows him great flexibility. His spine is more flexible than an ordinary human. Nightcrawler's balance and bodily coordination are all enhanced to superhuman levels. He has the ability to cling to surfaces through microscopic suction cups located on the pads of his hands and feet. He also possesses superhuman dexterity, being able to manipulate items and fence with either hand, both feet, and his tail.He has the ability to blend into shadows, both as a result of his indigo fur, and the dimensional portal which always surrounds his body and absorbs photons. Nightcrawler's eyes (which are constantly glowing) grant him a marked degree of heightened night vision. Nightcrawler is a superb fencer and a very skilled hand-to-hand combatant,

The Fight:

Combatants are in character (so no, Nightcrawler ports his head off!). The fight starts out with Nightcrawler going straight for Gambit, Gambit uses the Cards as shields. Nightcrawler ports passed them. They both Dodge/Attack each other. But I see Gambit being the superior fighter and pulling a win, unless stealth comes into play Nightcrawler wins. 6/10 very close match but Gambit wins.

I pulled these out of other Gambit vs Nightcrawler threads aswell:

@k4tzm4n said:

The man with superhuman reflexes and skill in savate gets my vote.

Good fight, though.

Kurt may be slightly more agile than Gambit, but not by enough of a margin to make a difference. Gambit, on the other hand, has better speed and reflexes feats than Nightcrawler does. Plus, he is a far superior hand-to-hand combatant.

Nightcrawler could give him a good bout, but in the end Gambit's superior skill will prevail.

This is from a different web site. no idea if its true:

Gambit has some amazing speed feats. catching a bullet, charging it with kinetic energy, and throwing back at the gunman, all before the gunman could react...blocking machine gun fire with his staff...drawing, charging, and throwing a card fifty meters at millimeter accuracy all before a woman could push a detonator her thumb was already on.

#40 Posted by flazam (2470 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: I am voting for Nightcrawler

I will post my thoughts later

#41 Posted by Chaos Burn (1773 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambit, he knows Nightcrawler well enough to compensate for NC's super agility and teleportation, Gambits not gonna be duped by a teleport behind him and he has some amazing reflex feats.

This is the first match where I honestly think attitude will be a big factor too - Gambit will be far more inclined to use dirty tactics, cheat, and even go for more 'cruel' attacks against his pal Nightcrawler than the far less lethal elf would.

#42 Posted by k4tzm4n (36433 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: My opinions have changed a lot over the years, so it's possible my current opinion on this fight isn't the same... :P

Staff
#43 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20198 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: are you allowed to say who you voted for?

#44 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (11828 posts) - - Show Bio

Remy wins, he's got the better reaction speed of the two so if Kurt even tries to touch him he's getting tagged with a mean staff to the dome. Kurt wouldn't last in a close quarters fight, Remy's agility/reaction speed makes up for Kurt's agility/teleportation. Both are skilled fighters from what I remember but Remy has better combat feats by far, not to mention his staff is official whereas Kurt doesn't always have a sword so it's hard to say whether he'd have it here. Remy could easily slip a lightly charged card onto Kurt without him noticing and KO him with it. Picking him up and dropping him is out of character for Kurt with morals on, dropping things on Remy won't work due to his agility/reaction and dropping larger objects is out of character, taking off a limb is out of character, there's no real way for Nightcrawler to beat Gambit that is within his moral limit whereas all Remy has to do is lightly charge a sticky card and/or simply beat Kurt over the face.

Thanks to Gambler I have scans to prove my arguments.

#45 Edited by k4tzm4n (36433 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:

@k4tzm4n: are you allowed to say who you voted for?

I always give my opinion in Friday's updated article.

Staff
#46 Posted by k4tzm4n (36433 posts) - - Show Bio

Remy wins, he's got the better reaction speed of the two so if Kurt even tries to touch him he's getting tagged with a mean staff to the dome. Kurt wouldn't last in a close quarters fight, Remy's agility/reaction speed makes up for Kurt's agility/teleportation. Both are skilled fighters from what I remember but Remy has better combat feats by far, not to mention his staff is official whereas Kurt doesn't always have a sword so it's hard to say whether he'd have it here. Remy could easily slip a lightly charged card onto Kurt without him noticing and KO him with it. Picking him up and dropping him is out of character for Kurt with morals on, dropping things on Remy won't work due to his agility/reaction and dropping larger objects is out of character, taking off a limb is out of character, there's no real way for Nightcrawler to beat Gambit that is within his moral limit whereas all Remy has to do is lightly charge a sticky card and/or simply beat Kurt over the face.

Thanks to Gambler I have scans to prove mseey arguments.

I'd say go for it. I'm sure plenty of people would like to why you think Gambit wins, especially since he's getting wrecked in the poll.

Staff
#47 Edited by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: reaction speed - I don't think Kurt will 'port then throw a punch, he'd most likely have thrown a punch or kick prior to 'porting - reappearing the instance his hit is to make contact then 'porting out not allowing Remy the opportunity to counter. Teleportation trumps speed. Teleportation is ulitmate speed.

#48 Posted by DADDY_XERO (50 posts) - - Show Bio

gambit is so much more than charging cards. wasn't an alternate universe (exact same base powers) of remy become a god (new sun)?

#49 Posted by jashro44 (19756 posts) - - Show Bio

0_o gambit only has 24%?

#50 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@jwalser3 said:

NightCrawler. Can Gambit even react if he teleports behind him?

I don't see why not.

Agreed. Many characters can and have predicted Night Crawler Teleports. Just because he Teleports does not mean NC has faster than Peak Human Thought Reaction Speeds. Gambit will tag him and put the greater hurt on him.

Gambit wins.