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Posted by k4tzm4n (45328 posts) 10 months, 11 days ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Elektra vs. Shredder (314 votes)

Elektra 38%
Shredder 52%
Too close to call 10%

This week, we're pitting two incredibly deadly characters against one another and, no matter who's left standing in the end, we're pretty confident the clash would be all kinds of epic. Elektra Natchios or Oroku Saki? That's what we're asking you this week and we're very curious to see who you all think would win in this one. Will you side with the dangerous ninja assassin or the fearsome leader of the Foot Clan? Or, will you be torn down the middle and declare this one too close to call?

We understand not everyone's knowledgeable on both characters, so please keep in mind you have all week to vote. Seriously, this poll's open until Friday morning (ET), so there's no need to rush. Go ahead and conduct your own research or just read through the detailed arguments which will hopefully be made for both sides. Or, if you do know both characters well enough, jump in right now and let us know who you think should win and why. Impress us enough and you just may earn the Viner Argument of the Week (post must be free of scans). You can't put that on your resume, but it's still a pretty darn satisfying award.

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • Characters are standard versions and have standard gear (latest IDW version of Shredder).
  • Knockout, incapacitation or death all count as elimination.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. They start roughly 25 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire city region is on limits.
  • It's not mandatory, but if you take time to vote, elaborating as well would be extra awesome. Keep things informative and your post could be the next Viner Argument of the Week!

Again, it would be extra cool if you could get your elaboration on as well. If you vote for a character, be sure to tell us why! Oh, and do try to remember this is just a conversation about fictional characters fighting, so keep things informative and not personal.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • My extended thoughts on the match.
  • A Viner Argument in favor of the poll's winner (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • Extra thoughts from other Comic Vine staffers.
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#1 Posted by Wolverine08 (42784 posts) - - Show Bio

*Gives applause* Sweet battle Katz! I need to do some research on Elektra before I cast a vote though.

#2 Posted by Fallschirmjager (17823 posts) - - Show Bio

*Gives applause* Sweet battle Katz! I need to do some research on Elektra before I cast a vote though.

I'm worn out from last week still. I'm taking this week off.

Online
#3 Posted by Wolverine08 (42784 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

*Gives applause* Sweet battle Katz! I need to do some research on Elektra before I cast a vote though.

I'm worn out from last week still. I'm taking this week off.

Lol, I avoid the heated Faora vs Thor discussion from the outset. I'm juiced up.

#4 Edited by k4tzm4n (45328 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

*Gives applause* Sweet battle Katz! I need to do some research on Elektra before I cast a vote though.

Thanks!

@wolverine08 said:

*Gives applause* Sweet battle Katz! I need to do some research on Elektra before I cast a vote though.

I'm worn out from last week still. I'm taking this week off.

Ha. Well, even if you steer clear of the debate, please be sure to cast your vote if you have an opinion on the fight.

Staff
#5 Posted by Lvenger (20220 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager: I kept mostly out of that battle even though it's a higher tier debate which is what I'm better at than street leveller debates. Still, I know a thing or two about the Shredder, the IDW version anyway so I'm gonna look up Elektra later on.

Online
#6 Edited by Fallschirmjager (17823 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@fallschirmjager: I kept mostly out of that battle even though it's a higher tier debate which is what I'm better at than street leveller debates. Still, I know a thing or two about the Shredder, the IDW version anyway so I'm gonna look up Elektra later on.

I know jack-shit about either of them outside Elektra's cameo in ultimate Spider-Man and her horrible movie.

And the TMNT movies...which are horrible....and awesome :3

Online
#7 Edited by Wolverine08 (42784 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager: TMNT from 1990 is still a awesome. The version of Shredder being uses here is from the current IDW TMNT series. You should jump on from issue 22 in which they begin a massive arc that features different factions of gangs vying for control of New York City.

#8 Edited by k4tzm4n (45328 posts) - - Show Bio

Just some things people may want to consider while weighing the outcome of this fight:

-Will their personalities help or hinder them?

-Will the environment benefit someone more?

-Who's more skilled?

-How will their gear play a role?

-Whose physicals have more variables and wildcards?

Staff
#9 Posted by Hyuga_Andy (2 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this is just too close to call. Both are ninja assassins at the top of their game, neither have any 'super' powers I'm aware of, I think the only downside is Elektra wears bright red, closet malfunction for a ninja I think!

#10 Edited by GeekyEverAfter (346 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, the Foot and the Hand, *Sighs* I'm going to need to think about this for awhile, both of these characters are such bad-as* ninjas!

#11 Edited by k4tzm4n (45328 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this is just too close to call. Both are ninja assassins at the top of their game, neither have any 'super' powers I'm aware of, I think the only downside is Elektra wears bright red, closet malfunction for a ninja I think!

Welcome to the site and thanks for voting!

Staff
#12 Edited by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see that the voting is heavily on Shredder's side, and I can easily assume it's due to his popularity not much else. I'm going against the flow and say that Elektra will kick the head off of his corpse, I mean come on!!! Shredder isn't a super human, his strength is above average but he's an exceptional martial artist as well as a master tactician and his IQ is very high and he can create minion robots. Now let's look at Elektra: the finest Kunoishi in her world, and maybe the best assassin in the Marvel Universe, she's an enhanced human, which means she's stronger than Shredder, I will assume she's on the turtles level or higher in strength, which is something Shredder has dealt with and has no problem facing, her asset isn't her strength though. She can manipulate an individual's mind and make them see illusions + she can elevate her healing speed, which is something that Shredder doesn't have. She has formidable stealth being able to sneak on both Wolverine and Daredevil without being detected, she can control her body functions as well which gives her an edge in tactics (as she can faint her death). The final thing she has going for her, is her superior speed, she can speed-blitz and was unseen in daylight many times.

What are you even thinking about? Elektra wins, hands down. Shredder just isn't enough.

#13 Posted by RogueShadow (10855 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish I knew a single thing about the TMNT/Shredder.

#14 Edited by Lvenger (20220 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks This week's battle article is just up your street I think given your Shredder knowledge and respect thread for him. You weighing in on this fight is something I'd be genuinely interested to hear.

Online
#15 Posted by GeekyEverAfter (346 posts) - - Show Bio

@funckygarcon: I agree. Did some research and it is extremely clear that Elektra stomps Shredder. Elektra's training in Ninjutsu, Assassination, Genjutsu, Martial Arts and Espionage is far more superior than Shredders.

#16 Posted by Dstick88 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

i went with elektra because F the police

#17 Edited by MR_COOKIES (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Shredder Stomps.

Want to see my nuts?

#18 Edited by Lvenger (20220 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#19 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21932 posts) - - Show Bio

#20 Posted by k4tzm4n (45328 posts) - - Show Bio
Staff
#21 Edited by GeekyEverAfter (346 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: No I didn't but thanks for adding that site, those are some amazing feats! Maybe now the votes will get some clarity.

#22 Posted by Lvenger (20220 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekyeverafter: Your post glitched I'm afraid so I didn't see what you posted.

Online
#25 Posted by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@dstick88 said:

i went with elektra because F the police

whoever went with Shredder are actively F'in the Police. not the other way around. read about Elektra!!!

#26 Edited by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually challenge anyone on this thread to prove to me somehow that Shredder will defeat Elektra. bring it on.

#27 Posted by k4tzm4n (45328 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually challenge anyone on this thread to prove to me somehow that Shredder will defeat Elektra. bring it on.

Staff
#28 Edited by superior_prime_maybe (393 posts) - - Show Bio

doesnt elektra have better feat???
I just voted for her. And saw shredders ahead by a lot.

Am i missing something about shredder???

#29 Posted by NoahMcnasty (43 posts) - - Show Bio

shredder. done and done

#30 Posted by Mucklefluga (2570 posts) - - Show Bio

Elektra because "with her being able to manipulate people’s minds and make them see illusions" and "also shown at times being able to control her own body functions, slowly down such things as breathing rate, heart rate or blood flow. Her assassination abilities also extend to stealth and she has even been shown to be able to sneak up on Daredevil".

#31 Posted by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

doesnt elektra have better feat???

I just voted for her. And saw shredders ahead by a lot.

Am i missing something about shredder???

he's ahead because of Bias and popularity.

#32 Edited by ravisher (691 posts) - - Show Bio

im still mad over Faora vs Thor

#33 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33607 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna weigh in on this when I finish work but for now Id like to point out that Shredder is effectively immortal so this will come down to can he be KO'd

#34 Posted by TimeLordScience (995 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO if Shredder wins it's going to be due to either lack of exposure of Elektra recently or mild sexism. Because so far she seems to totally outclass him in terms of abilities.

#35 Posted by k4tzm4n (45328 posts) - - Show Bio

Viners, the poll is less than two hours old. Can we please save the complaints until like, the final day of voting? Isn't saying WHY you think someone would win a more effective way of swaying more votes? Heck, even drop some scans to prove it. There's still plenty of time for the poll to fluctuate, so if you really want someone to win, keep it informative. Complaining isn't going to convince any potential voters.

Staff
#36 Posted by SHAZAM117 (3093 posts) - - Show Bio

Ooooh, good one.

I'm going with Natchios. She has low level telepathy or somethin' like that IIRC. Haven't read anything with her in it in a while tho. If this is straight h2h i think i still give her the win due to whom she's gone up against, where as IDW Shredder is a badass but I don't think he's faced as tough opponents that Elektra has dueled with over the years imo

#37 Edited by arw1985 (39 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with it's too close to call. They're both ninjas who have been known to kick major loads of butt. Elektra has a lot of tricks up her sleeve, so if the Shredder isn't on his A++ game, he could lose this one. On the other hand, IDW's version of Shredder is just a BAMF, so I think it could go either way.

#38 Edited by leokearon (1815 posts) - - Show Bio

Shredder can easily summon armies of Foot Ninjas and Mutants and Karai against Electra therefore tiring her out and then he goes in for the kill

#39 Posted by arw1985 (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@leokearon:

Shredder can easily summon armies of Foot Ninjas and Mutants and Karai against Electra therefore tiring her out and then he goes in for the kill

And then Elektra would either call in the Hand or the Thunderbolts to help her out.

Hmm... the Hand vs. the Foot. Now why wasn't that a match-up because that would be interesting?

#40 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Viners, the poll is less than two hours old. Can we please save the complaints until like, the final day of voting? Isn't saying WHY you think someone would win a more effective way of swaying more votes? Heck, even drop some scans to prove it. There's still plenty of time for the poll to fluctuate, so if you really want someone to win, keep it informative. Complaining isn't going to convince any potential voters.

This

#41 Posted by Supreme_Maj (291 posts) - - Show Bio

Hummmm this will be difficult for me to vote I know more about Elektra than Shredder comics version I watch only the animated version from the 80ties and he was a joke so I will wait until Thursday night before casting my vote please guys try to convince me on one and whitout insult I beg you

#42 Edited by sixfoothate (1 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see that the voting is heavily on Shredder's side, and I can easily assume it's due to his popularity not much else. I'm going against the flow and say that Elektra will kick the head off of his corpse, I mean come on!!! Shredder isn't a super human, his strength is above average but he's an exceptional martial artist as well as a master tactician and his IQ is very high and he can create minion robots. Now let's look at Elektra: the finest Kunoishi in her world, and maybe the best assassin in the Marvel Universe, she's an enhanced human, which means she's stronger than Shredder, I will assume she's on the turtles level or higher in strength, which is something Shredder has dealt with and has no problem facing, her asset isn't her strength though. She can manipulate an individual's mind and make them see illusions + she can elevate her healing speed, which is something that Shredder doesn't have. She has formidable stealth being able to sneak on both Wolverine and Daredevil without being detected, she can control her body functions as well which gives her an edge in tactics (as she can faint her death). The final thing she has going for her, is her superior speed, she can speed-blitz and was unseen in daylight many times.

What are you even thinking about? Elektra wins, hands down. Shredder just isn't enough.

@funckygarcon: I agree. Did some research and it is extremely clear that Elektra stomps Shredder. Elektra's training in Ninjutsu, Assassination, Genjutsu, Martial Arts and Espionage is far more superior than Shredders.

I agree with both. Many people are also unaware with her low level telepathy. Whether is has been said that it is actually telepathy or just high intuition, she can know their intentions and battle plan through "seeing" their thoughts.

#43 Edited by Dark_Guyver (2318 posts) - - Show Bio

Shredder by a mile! It's almost a spite match.... Almost

#44 Edited by LCazT1996 (532 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by NICKXH (251 posts) - - Show Bio

Shredder hands down!

#46 Edited by funckygarcon (266 posts) - - Show Bio

Shredder by a mile! It's almost a spite match.... Almost

a spite in popularity, that's what.

#47 Posted by superior_prime_maybe (393 posts) - - Show Bio

@funckygarcon: i guess many dont know elektra. Not surprising though. Marvel never highlights her enough.

#48 Posted by jwalser3 (5073 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm leaning towards Elekrta.

Online
#49 Posted by DEGRAAF (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

How can it be this heavily towards Shredder? It is a 40+ year old man with mastery in different styles of martial arts and mastery over the use of certain weapons compared to a woman in her prime with better acrobatics, speed and skill. Then you add on her mystical nature and deadly ability of being able to sneak up on people that is usually impossible to do so too.

The only thing i can think of is people see the words "foot clan" in the first paragraph and think it is Elektra vs a Foot army and Shredder.

Can someone please enlighten me on why Shredder might win this?

#50 Edited by Owie (3761 posts) - - Show Bio

Here are some Elektra scans I have shown regularly. Most of them come from the KMC thread listed above.

Elektra fights Daredevil in various circumstances. Some of these are fights where she takes him by surprise or he's sick, so there's an asterisk there obviously, but clearly she poses a serious threat to him. Even the fact that she is able to take him unawares is a serious feat. Note that she takes various major hits from him without slowing down, and also kicks through brick walls twice. This isn't even counting Elektra Assassin or Elektra Lives Again, the canonicity of which are debatable (but from my point of view I would include them).

I'm just going to put all the scans for this and other feats in a spoiler section.

#1. Sai to the back of the head!

#2. Sai to the back of the head!

#3 (they're in backwards order, read from last to first)

#4: ends up with Matt in a headlock

Following up on her ability to sneak up on DD, she is able to avoid his radar sense, and can control her heartbeat. Point being, her autonomous body functions are under her total control, and she is majorly stealthy.

As an example of extreme skill, she is fighting another skilled martial artist when she does a flip over her head and cuts the headband on her forehead. Just the headband, nothing else. Consider the extreme level of sword control this takes--to cut within what's essentially a 1/32" margin of error, while fighting a moving opponent and flipping upside down.

In another feat of skill, and also speed, the Punisher comes into a scene Elektra has gotten to first. She has cut a guys limbs and head off, but done so in such a way that they don't fall off until he's moved. Again, this is a skill feat of an absurd level. Plus, Punisher then confronts her, and she steals his gun from him from a few feet away, without him even realizing it until she points it out to him.

Strength/skill feat: Elektra stabs a sai into Red She Hulk's back. Now this may be PIS based on RSH's durability, but it is arguable that skilled martial artists can achieve such inhuman feats of cutting and penetration. Master swordsmen can cut through trees in one stroke, etc. I'd argue that Elektra may have the skill to put such focus into a strike that it can in fact injure such a superhuman being.

Elektra fights a bunch of Skrulls with superhuman powers (they're in backwards order, read from last to first).

Wolverine calls her the world's greatest ninja. Granted this may be hyperbole, but in this end this boils down to the fact that Wolverine, who knows fighting skill when he sees it, has a lot of respect for her.

Here, she fights Wolverine (who I believe is not in his normal state of mind). Note that she manages to get him in nerve strikes in the neck twice. (They're in backwards order, read from last to first.)

I am generally aware of Shredder's comics abilities and skill level, but don't have any good specific feats for him. Right now I favor Elektra in a reasonably close fight but am open for persuasion. I am assuming we are not using Elektra's chi abilities, which she doesn't use much anyway.