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Posted by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio

This week, we placed an Avenger, Natasha Romanova, against an assassin from DC, Talon (William Cobb). Black Widow has decades of appearances while Talon is relatively new, but according to a majority of voters, Natasha's experience just wasn't enough to overcome this lethal dude. In fact, out of 317 votes, a whopping 59% of voters sided with the heavily bladed dude.

37% sided with Black Widow and 5% think it's simply too close to call. Gotta admit, we really underestimated how many people would overestimate a healing factor. Look, there's absolutely no denying it plays a role in the fight and if you legitimately believe Talon wins because of his physicals and skill in addition to his accelerated healing, then that's perfectly fine. But a fair amount of posts seemed to imply he was literally undefeatable in this scenario. Some suggested Natasha could only win through using the cold or getting some kind of ice weapon, and that's simply not true. Yes, that's a Talon's weakness and they can certainly heal very rapidly, but something like a bullet to the noggin really should suffice (per the rules). Whether or not she can accomplish that or other options before getting sliced apart really should have been the subject of debate and thankfully, there were still plenty of people who made great posts and really brought their A game. So, let's go ahead and reward 'em. And as usual, Corey "Undeadpool" Schroeder also chimes in!

Comic Vine Argument of the Week for Talon is by Saren

"Cobb has a bad track record against Batman, but then I don't really see Widow doing any better in the same situation. Beatdown in the Court of Owls' maze notwithstanding, Widow's options should essentially only be limited to gunplay, because I have a hard time seeing her fists and feet do much of consequence to someone who regenerated a half dozen broken bones in a few seconds during his fight with Nightwing.

And that's actually a pretty mild healing feat for the Talons --- others have survived having their necks snapped all the way around, shrugged off getting electrocuted and freaks like Felix Harmon have ripped out their own eyes, dug around the insides of their skull through the eye sockets, and then grown everything back without issue.

And with that, the shots Widow takes will basically have to blow Cobb's head off, because anything else will be gone in two seconds. In contrast, Cobb's got a lot more options than she does, and he throws those knives pretty damn fast. Any injuries he sustains won't weigh him down, while the ones Widow sustains will. He had a pretty good showing against various Arkham metas recently too, which I found most notable for him taking out Sumo by using an unconscious Firefly as a weapon. He's not averse to thinking on his feet either."

Comic Vine Argument of the Week for Black Widow is by Owie

"I've been thinking about this thread for a couple days now. My immediate reaction was that Talon crushes Natasha due to his stats, record against Batman, and healing factor. She has the skill edge, but that was all, in my mind. But I had forgotten that Natasha's stats are also enhanced to a degree. And that the Bat family second-stringers didn't get killed immediately, and that Batman, for instance, was able to survive fighting a whole horde of them on his own for quite some time before he had to get into his Bat-armor. And the more I thought about her edge in weapons, the more I moved over to her winning.

Here's how I see it.

They start 20 feet apart. From this distance, either could attack with ranged weapons. Natasha could shoot with guns or her Widow's Bite, and Talon could throw knives at her. While Natasha is a cold-blooded assassin, I kind of doubt she is going to just shoot him right off the bat. She would usually go for a submission against an opponent unless she knew the guy deserved to die. It's possible she'd shoot, but I don't think so. Cobb may throw some knives at her, but she's extremely agile and I have no doubt she'll dodge those.

So they'll close. Up close, I think Talon would ultimately overwhelm her. She has the skill edge, but his physicals are still above hers by some degree and he is pretty skilled on his own. But Natasha is a smart fighter. Once she gets in there and realizes what he's like, she's going to put her emphasis on dodging, and I think she is capable of doing this reasonably effectively against him, at least for a time. Even if he hits her with a blade, she is durable and able to resist pain, and can tough it out. Then she is going to go for her Bite. 30,000 volts from both arms at point blank range is not going to miss, and while he may survive it, he is going to be KOed long enough for it to count as a win.

Basically it comes down to this. Talon is skilled and strong and regenerative enough to kill her in a long hand-to-hand session. But he is not good enough to kill her immediately, even with bladed weapons. And since she has a game-ending weapon, and is good enough to survive long enough to use it, that's what she's going to do."

Corey "Undeadpool" Schroeder, Comic Vine writer

"Gotham. Not the best place for Black Widow to find herself. She'd heard whispers and mutters of a city bereft of justice, save for one man's singular, bizarre crusade. As she surveyed it, she couldn't disagree, gazing out over the ruined, deserted buildings. She'd gotten word of a strange man in the shadows and figured he might be worth a few more than a few dollars. But as she checked her binoculars again, it was clear he was a no-show. As she turned, she chuckled and shook her head, bringing up her arm to block the bladed attack aimed at her neck.

"I am unsure of how the whole owl/spider thing works, but" she fired her shot back into his face, staggering him, "I am sure how this will go." she laughed again, bringing her hand to his neck as he crumpled. His weakness was short lived, however, as he grabbed her hand and bent it one way, shaking his head and kicking her torso, sending her flipping aside and springing back toward him. They met in a vicious grapple, each exchanging blows and violent strikes before separating and heading their own ways into the buildings.

William Cobb's mind swam with new knowledge, his mind adjusting to his new foe and rounding each corner cautiously. Where he neglected to check was the ceiling and Widow took advantage of this, dropping down on him and striking his vital nerve clusters before drawing a pistol and firing into his head. His mind went dark, but not for long. She was walking away from him, talking into some kind of communicator when he staggered upright and locked his arm around her neck, "Black Widow...the Court of Owls has sentenced you to DIE!" he jerked his arms, but found his grip broken as he tumbled forward, his arm snapping, his head stomped as he stared down a barrel of his own. "And to think..." she shook her head, firing more of the strange Widow shots into his body, paralyzing him, "someone thinks you're the equal of Steve Rodgers." He wasn't dead, but he was unable to tell what was going on as he lost consciousness."

We've got good news and bad news for you, Viners. Let's start with the bad. Well, this is the last edition of this segment. Now for the good: it will be replaced by another "this or that" weekly segment that'll appeal to all kinds of comic fans instead of just people who love battles. It'll still be a poll every Monday and the results will be posted every Friday. And yes, you'll still be able to get your posts highlighted in the updated feature.

As for my fellow battles junkies, don't worry, the Batman Battle of the Month and Best Battles in New Comics/Best Battles in Comic Book History are here to stay. If this news really bums you out, jump into the Battles forum and do your part to improve the quality of discussions and create unique and fun threads. Go get your creativity on, Viners! Just remember this: we're talking about fictional characters fighting, so there's no reason to lose your cool. Debating isn't about winning or losing -- it's about sharing knowledge with your peers and expanding your own knowledge. Being able to admit when you're mistaken is far more respectable than being stubborn and refusing to at least understand where the other person is coming from. If someone disagrees with you, prove why you think they're wrong, don't reduce yourself to insults. That is all.

animated gif (1590) Animated Gif on Giphy

Staff
#1 Posted by thesleuth (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Makes sense Talon won I think.

#2 Posted by TheManInTheShoe (3878 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, Archer gifs are everywhere

#3 Posted by RBT (4190 posts) - - Show Bio

Dang I missed this. Anyways, I think he wins too. Much stronger and healing always helps.

#4 Posted by Saren (25674 posts) - - Show Bio

If this news really bums you out, jump into the Battles forum

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE K4TZM4N

Moderator
#5 Posted by ccraft (5274 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, Archer gifs are everywhere

first time I'm seeing it :/

#6 Edited by TheManInTheShoe (3878 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Everywhere was a slight exaggeration, but I've seen them a lot around the web.

#7 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7818 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Widow has all the tools to put him down for an incapacitation. But the arguments of the week for both sides are good.

#8 Edited by micah (1383 posts) - - Show Bio

Good Battle

#9 Posted by Chaos Burn (1784 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr Krieger is awesome

#10 Posted by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, it seems like no one is going to miss the segment... :P

Staff
#11 Edited by AllStarSuperman (21868 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Well, it seems like no one is going to miss the segment... :P

I am, I never got voter argument of the week yet.....

#12 Posted by Owie (3741 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Thanks for the highlight, k4tz. Last winner of the argument of the week for the loser of the battle! :)

I will miss the segment. I've gotten too busy to do much debating these days, so it has been nice to be able to jump into at least one battle a week that I knew ahead of time was going to be set up well, and would have good debating from most of the participants.

#13 Posted by wbr17 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

If it was to stop this battles would be better to stop batman one because they lose their reason to be when they stop being about batman.

#14 Posted by DonFelipe (1096 posts) - - Show Bio

Now I really need to get Archer on DVD!

#16 Posted by Lvenger (19936 posts) - - Show Bio

The battle of the week section is ending??!

WHY GREGG WHY? Seriously, I will miss this weekly battle segment. The debates that these threads can generate could be really informative and enlightening. If I were to guess, I'd speculate that popularity whims coupled with a lack of attention and the problematic arguing that could ensue in these threads were what ended this segment. Which is a real shame that the actions of some have ruined the enjoyment these threads brought to the respectable debaters of the Vine. I am curious as to what this new segment will be though.

#17 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12184 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

The battle of the week section is ending??!

my thoughts exactly

#18 Posted by dondave (37445 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

The battle of the week section is ending??!

WHY GREGG WHY? Seriously, I will miss this weekly battle segment. The debates that these threads can generate could be really informative and enlightening. If I were to guess, I'd speculate that popularity whims coupled with a lack of attention and the problematic arguing that could ensue in these threads were what ended this segment. Which is a real shame that the actions of some have ruined the enjoyment these threads brought to the respectable debaters of the Vine. I am curious as to what this new segment will be though.

#19 Edited by Lvenger (19936 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by Outside_85 (9014 posts) - - Show Bio

Boooh... I was hoping Battle of the Week would one day get off the bat-character infested streets and start aiming a little higher... but now only the Batman-battle remains :(

Online
#21 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12184 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I've also found a somewhat relative meme....

#22 Posted by jashro44 (21778 posts) - - Show Bio

Sucks that this segment is going away.

#23 Posted by laflux (15958 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Sucks that this segment is going away.

#24 Posted by RisingBean (3989 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n Color me curious. Unless you're getting stuck with the new theme and don't have time to do that and this series or simply don't want the headache of it anymore, why would this segment be cancelled? It's not like CV is putting out stuff so fast that it wouldn't fit in the lineup.

With that said it was a fun time.

#25 Posted by Rainja (365 posts) - - Show Bio

A Lot of Good posts. Im gonna do a battke thread.

#26 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20250 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@jashro44 said:

Sucks that this segment is going away.

This. It was easily the best segment IMO.

#27 Posted by Oy_the_Billy_Bumbler (820 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie's post seemes spot on IMHO. I at first was sided with Talon at the start of the week, until I actually went back and read some old Black Widow stuff. She is too versatile and too skilled to lose to someone who is only slightly above peak human. She's beaten much worst then him.

#28 Posted by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio

As for why, it's simple: lackluster traffic. I was hoping every week the battle had the potential to go viral, fans telling other fans to come support this or that character and everyone could have a good time voting/discussing, but that rarely seemed to happen and a good majority of them seemed to appeal only to the battles forum crowd.

Staff
#29 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (6338 posts) - - Show Bio

Talon, yay!

#30 Posted by judasnixon (6584 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by TheManInTheShoe (3878 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Well, it seems like no one is going to miss the segment... :P

MY PAIN IS ETCHED INTO THE COVER OF TMNT!

Moderator
#34 Posted by Shawnbaby (10774 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I would prefer to see the Batman Battle of the Month get axed and have this turn into a monthly segment.

#35 Edited by iceslick (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: I think I will miss it because this section always let me know that there are comic book fans out there with great intellect and can tell how can each character or characters can win. It's a very different feel here than what I read from the casuals on the Facebook because they are always biased and swear they know it all when the information they get is false or obsolete. Here in other hand, I see that people are actually readers and do there research well even when there is characters who are not well known have a chance at winning like the Valiant characters. The most interesting posts are the ones who can discuss things about both characters and come with great battle scenarios. I only think it's until very recently there might have been a few bias ones ever since the GofG and X-Force fight came around. I'm starting to think this section starting to dying down to the typical bias movement. So, I guess I can see why you're thinking of getting rid of it. :-( The only reason I don't get involve, because I don't think my knowledge of comic book reading is enough since I've been reading comic books with gaps in between. It's only been 2 years since I got back. So, I don't think that's enough.

#36 Edited by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio

@iceslick: Thanks! Well, the battles forum still exists, after all ;)

@shawnbaby said:

Personally I would prefer to see the Batman Battle of the Month get axed and have this turn into a monthly segment.

I considered it, but the simple fact is the BBotM always draws more attention and, as much as I love writing these, it feels like a waste of time if the traffic just isn't there. Maybe in due time I'll make the transition, but for the near future, I'll try to keep it varied with characters from the "Batman universe."

@deranged_midget: lol to the max.

Staff
#37 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

@iceslick said:

@k4tzm4n: I think I will miss it because this section always let me know that there are comic book fans out there with great intellect and can tell how can each character or characters can win. It's a very different feel here than what I read from the casuals on the Facebook because they are always biased and swear they know it all when the information they get is false or obsolete. Here in other hand, I see that people are actually readers and do there research well even when there is characters who are not well known have a chance at winning like the Valiant characters. The most interesting posts are the ones who can discuss things about both characters and come with great battle scenarios. I only think it's until very recently there might have been a few bias ones ever since the GofG and X-Force fight came around. I'm starting to think this section starting to dying down to the typical bias movement. So, I guess I can see why you're thinking of getting rid of it. :-( The only reason I don't get involve, because I don't think my knowledge of comic book reading is enough since I've been reading comic books with gaps in between. It's only been 2 years since I got back. So, I don't think that's enough.

right here... for me this was a chance to learn something new about characters i didnt know... or let me show off what i did know

#38 Edited by CF12793 (2992 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I would prefer to see the Batman Battle of the Month get axed and have this turn into a monthly segment.

This. I think the spin-off has been more successful than its predecessor. Not everyone is a Batman fan (especially around here) so this leaves a void for people who enjoy this format without the Caped crusader.

#39 Edited by Wolverine08 (42289 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I would prefer to see the Batman Battle of the Month get axed and have this turn into a monthly segment.

Online
#40 Edited by lexxdbm (13 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Posted by CantDance93 (349 posts) - - Show Bio

Makes sense.

#43 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

Who would Widow win against? Talk about to much push in comics.

#44 Posted by DragonEscarlata (365 posts) - - Show Bio

My english is not good enough to jump into the debate, but I checked this segment on a daily basis, just to read the arguments made by most knowledgeable and skilled (language wise) viners. And yes, I will miss this :'(

#45 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1266 posts) - - Show Bio

My english is not good enough to jump into the debate, but I checked this segment on a daily basis, just to read the arguments made by most knowledgeable and skilled (language wise) viners. And yes, I will miss this :'(

this

#46 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5646 posts) - - Show Bio

:(

#48 Edited by TheBrownPowerRanger (94 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it just me or is black widow over rated.

#49 Posted by VMole (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it just me or is black widow over rated.

You mean the comparatively featless and underwhelming Cobb, right?