Comic Vine Battle of the Week: Deathstroke vs. Ultimate Captain America

Yo, I own every comic that Ult. Cap is in ....in fact I own every Ult Marvel issue that's ever existed up till now (thru various means....), and I've read a lot about DS and I feel like I'm being unbias here.

IMO DS would win 6/10 times, with all fights being long and brutal. I respect Ult. Cap but I feel that a lot of his feats are PIS or 'MERICA!!! bullsh*t.

I never said that him defeating the the JL or Flash wasn't PIS, but him losing to Aquaman and Nightwing is bullsh*t and you know it; it was AM and GL and against Nightwing the loss was calculated and planned. Even against WW, he put up a good fight and she admitted that DS was faster (so she gave him a feat right there). Also, DS has the Nth Armor here, which is VERY VERY effective against blunt attacks....which are a great majority of Cap's attacks.

There's many cases of PIS on both sides, but I just feel that DS has more skills, weapons and experience + feats than Ult Cap. I'm not saying DS rapes Cap by any meas, though.

How is this a low showing? He lost but he put up a fight.....And again I am pretty sure she stated he was faster then her. Wonder woman being a superman level being should curbstomp cap or deathstroke....The feat is PIS but I don't see how it supports ultimate cap winning.

Also he he ran from aquaman and hal jordan. He was being pressured by 2 characters beyond street level.

So you own every issue huh? Thats why you low ball all Caps feats ia PIS yet all of DS PIS feats are legit.

Yeah that sounds "legit"

On top of all that you ask for proof of Caps feats and then miss the point of them.

Your either Completely Bias, or fool of crap on being a "Ultimate" reader. You do not even seem to remember half the feats of Cap. Like the fact he reacts and moves faster than Bullets or Electricity on many occasions. Yet you think a Paper Clip will kill cap.

Get real guy, no need to lie like you know the character at all.

The point is People seem to believe he can take these people as legit feats. Thats my problem, I have no idea how you miss that fact on this comic site. DS is way overrated where everyone believes Ultimate Cap is same as 616.

Alright, that I can accept, the way i read your post it felt like you were just trying to low ball Cap.

My posts prove that I've read a large majority of Ult Cap books, and I've already stated that DS has a lot of PIS moments too but NEVER said they were legit. Never said DS could kill Cap with a paperclip. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Also, I never asked for proof...you made your argument before I could ask you to and I merely responded to your argument.

@god_spawn: He didn't own majestic, Ds own jericho in a weaken Majestic body and he gave a cheap shot in the back of Majestic/Jericho heads SO SAYING he own maj will be too much.

@chillinvillain: My bad, you said blind Cap with a Pebble.

That is not happening.

Caps speed like his strength and durability is clearly super human levels.

Gallery

1) Cap dodges computer targeting AK-47 with no Shield.

2) Cap dodges bullets from Military.

3-5) Reacts and Blocks electricity attacks. He does this again for a Silver Herald.

6) Bullets dodging from 360 degrees.

7) Cap actually reacts and moves faster than the Bullet Tranqs from Hawkeye's guns! Clint clearly fires first and Cap reacts second. Great feat.

8-9) Cap Reacts to Silver Herald Electric attack after it was fired!

So I do not see why someone who reads Ultimates makes that comment.

See how it kinda looks miss informed and bias?

@supreme_maj: My sarcasm flies over people's heads.

Screw your sarcasm. People are tryingz to Debate.

@god_spawn: No excuses, I been debating to hard here. What is your stance on who may win.

After the debates, be honest.

@laflux and @slimj87d also why am I the only one debating for Cap here against the onslaught of "DS RULES" here? Your are the only 2 other knowledgeable Ultimate Viners here. WTH?

@cadencev2 said:

@chillinvillain: My bad, you said blind Cap with a Pebble.

@chillinvillain said:

Doesn't DS still have his precognition abilities? Even if he doesn't, people keep talking like DS isn't also an enhanced super soldier himself, with genius intellect (resulting in him being a master strategist to the point that EVERY move he makes is calculated and planned), enhanced reflexes, and being a marksman to the point that he can kill a fly with a paperclip (meaning he could take out one of Captain America's eyes with a pebble and make look like an accident).

That is not happening.

Caps speed like his strength and durability is clearly super human levels.

Gallery

1) Cap dodges computer targeting AK-47 with no Shield.

2) Cap dodges bullets from Military.

3-5) Reacts and Blocks electricity attacks. He does this again for a Silver Herald.

6) Bullets dodging from 360 degrees.

7) Cap actually reacts and moves faster than the Bullet Tranqs from Hawkeye's guns! Clint clearly fires first and Cap reacts second. Great feat.

8-9) Cap Reacts to Silver Herald Electric attack after it was fired!

So I do not see why someone who reads Ultimates makes that comment.

See how it kinda looks miss informed and bias?

I get he did all of that, but I also get that those reaction feats didn't help much in close combat fights as we see several times against people like Hulk, Liberators' Leader (forgot his name), Red Skull, Nuke, Wolverine, Chitari Leader, or Hawk-Owl (yes, I've even read the Ultimate Adventures comics).

That's why I've been on DS's side in this argument, because I believe that in a close fight DS's skill, experience, plus the Nth Armor, wins out. I also think that the longer the fight goes on the more it goes in favor of DS; he's EXTREMELY resourceful when in a pinch, more so than Ult. Cap.

Abdul is the Liberators Leader. Cap after taking a beating and being drugged up still beat Abdul with ease.

Cap vs Abdul.

Gallery

Cap vs Schizo Man. Schizo Man has Mutiple Mans powers and picks a fight with a Tranquilized Cap.

Then after being freed Abomination tackles him.

Gallery

Cap vs Abdul. Cap in pretty rough shape fights a exact copy of himself thanks to Loki's magic. Cap wins. Cap then goes onto fighting Loki's Troll army lol.

Hulk is a beast and super fast being himself. he runs at 200 MPH and a avergae person can move 3 times than they run. That is 900 FPS. That is fast.

Chitari Alien was superior to Cap thanks to having more combat time (100s of years in fact) and was superior in Strength and Regen.

Red Skull has one fight on Cap and Red Skull is Superior to Cap in ALL Areas including Speed.

Nuke was also like wise equal if not Superior to Cap.

Wolverine? Really? Cap had 2 quick matches with Wolverine.

Cap easy win both with on the fly tactics.

The only real cases is Owl Man and that was it.

See, it seems you simply do not remember Cap at all.

@cadencev2: To be fair, I think you've been doing a good job. I only like to add that the Nth Metal Armor doesn't cover the whole of Death-Stroke's body, so he could be exposed to Cap's blows there. Slade's and Cap's Guns and Nades are not going to be that useful, as both are casual bullet-timers, and Slade has the armor and Cap has the Shield, so its going to H2H. Cap's Shield is a good counter for Slade's blade, and I think the Physicals of Cap will win through.

I also don't think its unfeasible for Cap to try a Shield chop on Slade, to get through the Nth Armor. You can bypass it if you have skill and speed.

Also as a general point, people say Slade is more skilled, and I would say so, but I don't think its a determining factor. Ult Cap fought Ult Black Panther who had enhancements and had traveled the world learning various martial arts for three hours straight just to test him, and soon as he got bored, trounced him. Also Cap using skill, to harm the various people stronger than him- since he's weaker than Ult Peter based on the pushing match they had, is the most logical explanation, (he targeted the weak point "balls" of Ult Hulk for example).

But honestly, I've spent alot the time laughing at Bane's MS induced debating skills.

And as for Deathstroke fans, my 9 year old brother has joined there ranks due to spamming guns in injustice. I need to slap some sense into him, when I get back down from uni for the summer =D

@cadencev2: with what you gave as arguments here nobody should argue about the fact ultimate cap can win this, i like both characters and i know each one of them feats and for me you are right. Ultimate cap is the man we could even see it when Reed Richard came back with his children of tomorrow everything was ok for reed up to when cap came back on the job. ultimate cap is too powerful .

@laflux: @supreme_maj: Thanks ya. Too bad everyone who cares already voted for DS. Seems unfair now some poeple agree where before they voted DS. Oh well.

#

I think Deathstroke is just going to win the votes here because people don't really know exactly what Ult. Cap is capable of. His agility is better then Deathstroke. His speed might be the same, but his strength is greater for sure, and he knows how to fight just as well. Deathstroke has the 90% brain thing going for him, but it doesn't matter. My vote is for Cap, but Deathstroke is going to win just out of popularity. Even Deathstroke uses parachutes, and Ult. Cap thinks parchutes are for sissies.

@cadencev2: yes since there are also people who are posting no genuine information about some fight they just say what can help them win this fight. What i realize there a lot of people who are just voting because they pledge to one editor and they don't try to know each characters history before even casting a vote like what happen in the last challenge between Nightwing and Daredevil most peolpel here know nightwing and not DD that is why the fight result was so close

@CadenceV2 George Bush Jr was voted in twice so just because DS has the majority of the votes doesn't mean all people necessarily have a clue. Deathstroke is so popular DC had to keep his fans happy by putting the "Great" Rob Leifeld on the title. What's the chance that the title would change hands to another creator and be cancelled shortly after? Oh wait...

Thank you all. I feel at least Cap has some support with actual reasons stated rather than "DS wins" then click DS for votes.

@cadencev2 said:

@chillinvillain said:

I get he did all of that, but I also get that those reaction feats didn't help much in close combat fights as we see several times against people like Hulk, Liberators' Leader (forgot his name), Red Skull, Nuke, Wolverine, Chitari Leader, or Hawk-Owl (yes, I've even read the Ultimate Adventures comics).

That's why I've been on DS's side in this argument, because I believe that in a close fight DS's skill, experience, plus the Nth Armor, wins out. I also think that the long the fight goes on the more it goes in favor of DS; he's EXTREMELY resourceful when in a pinch, more so than Ult. Cap.

Abdul is the Liberators Leader. Cap after taking a beating and being drugged up still beat Abdul with ease.

Cap vs Abdul.

Gallery

Cap vs Schizo Man. Schizo Man has Mutiple Mans powers and picks a fight with a Tranquilized Cap.

Then after being freed Abomination tackles him.

Gallery

Cap vs Abdul. Cap in pretty rough shape fights a exact copy of himself thanks to Loki's magic. Cap wins. Cap then goes onto fighting Loki's Troll army lol.

Hulk is a beast and super fast being himself. he runs at 200 MPH and a avergae person can move 3 times than they run. That is 600 FPS. That is fast.

Chitari Alien was superior to Cap thanks to having more combat time (100s of years in fact) and was superior in Strength and Regen.

Red Skull has one fight on Cap and Red Skull is Superior to Cap in ALL Areas including Speed.

Nuke was also like wise equal if not Superior to Cap.

Wolverine? Really? Cap had 2 quick matches with Wolverine.

Cap easy win both with on the fly tactics.

The only real cases is Owl Man and that was it.

See, it seems you simply do not remember Cap at all.

Schizo Man was weak sauce; dude had no special combat skill what so ever. Don't even know why you bring that up. His powers also weren't anywhere near the levels of Madrox; the amount of clones he made are numbers that have been wrecked easily by both characters, multiple times.

The fight with Abdul was not easy and went on for a while, before Cap got the upper hand due to him having superior skill and experience in fighting; Abdul had no where near the fighting skill or experience that Cap had, let alone DS. Cap was already roughed up, you say? Well Deathstroke had a submarine dropped and detonated on him, nearly drowned, got stabbed by his own broadsword and was still coherent enough to create a makeshift EMP in the midist of a fight to the death.

Hulk would beat both of them in a long fight, so let's leave it at that.

DS has also fought people that have the same advantages that the Chitari leader had, but I didn't say anything negative towards Cap regarding that fight; only said that I believe that DS would rise victorious against the alien just as Cap did.

Red Skull is a beast, and would likely beat down DS as well in a first encounter; RS beats both Cap and DS.

I've already stated that I see that whole story regarding Nuke as PIS. A healthy Cap gets rocked, but a severely tortured Cap beats him....I don't get that logic at all.

Those two matches with Wolverine are PIS and CIS based off the MANY feats of Ult Wolverine. The first one has Wolverine doesn't even use his heighten senses to avoid that attack and we've seen Wolverine get up from worse than that (the grenade barely hurt Logan, yet he was down for the count like that? Bullsh*t). The second one Cap had Logan surrounded, and even if he got up from that barrage of bullets (feats says he should've, but that's PIS for you) Cap loaded into him, Cap would've had his men riddle Logan with hundreds of more bullets; no way Cap was longing that fight.

Against HawkOwl, Cap was barely winning their fight until Giant-Man separated them. HawkOwl basically being a low-level Batman, by the way.

In his fight with DS, here, all cap has is his shield tho; no AK-47s or whatever here to give him a long range advantage.

Tony beat Reed on some PIS sh*t, not Cap; Cap was only shown twice in that arc, and both time he was he played no part in beating Reed.

@cadencev2

The point is People seem to believe he can take these people as legit feats. Thats my problem, I have no idea how you miss that fact on this comic site. DS is way overrated where everyone believes Ultimate Cap is same as 616.

I know deathstroke is overrated. I have debated against him in several threads. However I don't think we should just bring up deathstrokes low showings while ignoring his high end feats, post out of context feats, and bring up Slades high end feats and pretend they are low showings when they are actually really impressive. No offense but that seems to be what you are doing. I get this is stressful people are counting out ultimate cap but I don't think we should post showings like deathstrokes fight with green arrow where Slade wasn't trying to win and Ollie had one sided prep, or bring up some of deathstrokes low showings with nightwing even though he consistently stomps, or promote his showing with wonder woman as a low showing when it actually is a very impressive feat. Its just for fun.

EDIT: Also what is the score for the pole right now? I haven't voted yet so I can't see.

Exactly, thank you for stating this.

@cadencev2 I'm one of like 2-3 DS supporters actually trying to seriously debate you here; don't lump me in with the band wagoners......I don't even like Injustice like that.

Also, I'm not saying that DS curbstomps Cap; I'm saying DS wins after a purposely drawn out battle in which he will analyze Caps tendencies and such, like we've seen him due plenty of times. It will be brutal and close, but I give DS the edge. If he didn't have the Nth Armor then Cap would win hands down.

@chillinvillain: how can you afirm hawk owl was a a low level batman do you thing when a writer create a new character base on one is to make him weaker than the real deal? come on and if you want to mentions that the ultimates were declaring hawkowl as insane starting a fight with cap and the state he was after the fight was showing how he was hurt serieously by ultimate cap and the late was not fighting 100% because of Hawk Owl son in the premises so please. And about Nuke losing the first fight against him was the first encounters between the two super soldier and ultimate cap was surprise by the strength of nuke like with red skull but it help him to know who is dealing against and that is how he got the upper hand against him because he learnt how to fight the guy even weakened and don't forget all the cap through the multiverse share a common strength their sens of justice and ultimate cap was pissed when fighting nuke the second time.

This is true.

Some of this is not.

The point of Schizo Man was the Proof that Cap was still hevily drugged out of his mind by SHIELD when he wqas realeased. Meaning Cap was not only "roughed up" he was Drugged up as well.

Hulk, Chitari, Red Skull I agree.

Nuke we will agree to disagree. I think cap was simply not prepared fro a Super Soldier of his caliber when he though Nuke was a average Terrorist. Then after a weak of Torture Cap simply fought to the death with every dirty trick he could find against a Superior opponent. That is my take.

You brought up the wolverine Matches when Cap never really fought him. Just found any way to put him down quick. While Wolvie has greater feats to tank what Cap thru, it is PIS, I was just saying how they tried to show Cap using Tactics on a superior foe.

Owl Man, that was a low showing.

As for Cap with just a Shield, @k4tzm4n stated Cap has his gear. this includes as stated Guns and Grenades. Cap has more than his Shield here and both Smoke and tear gas can be useful as well a M4 for distraction.

First off Jash, that is not me low balling, I only know as much of DS from Tourney Debates with Fetts and others that use him. These are what I know.

If you think I am low balling, then Debate me with the Facts like @citizenbane and @calebhara have. im not the Deathstroke expert.

Also the score makes me sick. 60 percent DS and 30 Percent Cap. So as you can see, DS will win this no matter what I say as he is the Media whore and popular character.

I have a better Idea where your coming from, so now its just point of views.

I'd have to say this is about as even as one can make it...but Ultimate Cap has the edge with that shield. Makes him like a Spartan I say.

Ultimate Cap wins, not enough people are taking note or researching him. He's WAY stronger than normal Captain America.

@cadencev2: I would debate you if I had the time. I think calebhara is doing a pretty good job defending deathstroke anyways so I am not really needed. All though if there is anything specific you want to see for deathstroke ask and I will see what I can share that hasn't been posted yet.

OK, I like to know New 52 vs this guy with the sub. What made that guy Super Human and how did DS beat him exactly?

@cadencev2: So?

Legacy? He had a Nth metal suit (I guess it was pure mth metal unlike deathstrokes armor) and Slade used the environment to make a EMP (he made it in a few seconds) to disable his suit and depowered Legacy. The showing with legacy is mainly posted to show Slades damage soak (tanking the sub, getting stabbed, etc) he was outclassed until he made the EMP.

@cadencev2 said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

Ultimate Cap is hardcore, he doesn't play at all.

Ultimate Cap with Thors hammer is even more awesome.

Hell yeah!

LOL..I'm casting my vote to Capt. because of this scan.

@cadencev2: I posted the scans in this thread at comment 11 if you want to see them. I think there is one scan missing but all the important parts are there:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/deathstroke-vs-grey-hulk-751129/

Just scroll down to comment #11.

Phew, just came out victorious against a huge flying roach.....not fun...

The Bold: Okay, I get that. That's how I see this fight going. DS and Cap fight, Cap likely gets the upper hand, or they're even for awhile, before DS quickly retreats to a safer area contemplate what he's learned and/or even set up traps.

I see this as a long, brutal, drawn out fight in which DS's wits get him the win.

Okay, I get that he was drugged the hell up, but come on...we both know that Cap could beat Schizo Man handcuffed, tranqed-up, while on crack.

Okay, I agree with you're assessment on his fight with Nuke. Though, wouldn't the same thing happen here in a first encounter with DS? Ult Cap knows nothing about DS and will likely have the same thought process, that being "oh look, another punk with a mask", and can be taken by surprise possibly like he was against Nuke. But then DS might be taken by surprise when he sees that Cap is also a badass muthahfckah.

I agree that the Wolverine scans show that Cap is ruthless and willing to do what it takes to win, but it's not like that will surprise DS; DS has fought fcked people before, and isn't afraid to do some fcked up things himself. Wolverine beats both DS and Cap anyway, in my opinion.

HawkOwl is a GOD!!!! NO ONE CAN BEAT HIM!!!!.....Tho you have a point.

I gotta admit, I'm also disappointed in the voting score. Cap can beat DS, I just think DS beats him a few more times, but the voting makes it look like DS rapes Cap when that's blasphemous speak lol.

@jashro44: thanks.

@cadencev2: No problem.

@chillinvillain: At least the Nightwing and Dare Devil had their respected fan base and was a close match by votes.

This makes it look like a mismatch.

There's still 4 days left for voting. The results are surprising to me as well, but I'm hoping the percentage will grow closer in time.

Got to go with Ultimate Cap here. As stated before Deathstroke Neth Metal armor doesn't cover his entire body. Also Ult Cap has the advantage in speed, agility, experience, & Tactics (Tactics are not the same as prep.) If people would just simple look at the scans that @cadencev2: has proved the winner is obvious. (And not just vote for the more popular character.)

Deathstroke!

...love Cap, but this fight goes to Deathstroke

WTF!!!
Your the reason why Ultimate Cap has crappy Voting. Look at what you wrote?!

This is Ultimate Captain America who kills all the time guy, not the main stream comic Cap.

WTH!?

@cadencev2: OMG FLM LMFAO WTF NSFW QFT BRB LOL ROFL IDK OIC 101010 10 11 01

Exactly. How did you botch reading the OP?

Or do you simply not know Ultimate Caps character, Guns, Grenades, or Super Human stats?

@cadencev2: !?€£¥#*^+!~]#%?~]\[\,>^%{#()$@?!

I'm sorry, I would have loved to join in but I have been a bit busy and you actually did a very good job covering all areas of the spectrum but like you said this is a popularity contest.

I'll be quite honest, the OP isn't specific enough for me. I don't know if Ultimate Cap can beat New-52 Deathstroke because of the Nth metal upgrade is a variable. That doesn't mean I don't think he can beat him, but the Nth metal armor hasn't been elaborated on, the Nth metal armor could actually be a deciding factor here. But it does amp his already beastly stats.

Back to my first point though, this is a popularity contest just like Marvel vs DC comics where fans just voted. Deathstroke has a large fanbase, a very large one at that. Second, a lot of people and I mean A LOT of people think Ultimate Captain America = 616 Captain America which is a huge misconception.