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Posted by k4tzm4n (49892 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, so maybe last week's battle with Scarlet Spider and Venom put us in a bit of a Spider-Man universe mood...

When it comes to the characters Spider-Man has brawled with, the likes of Venom, Doctor Octopus, Green Goblin and a few others come immediately to mind. However, we want to focus on two characters from that category who haven't had nearly as much spotlight: Cardiac and Roderick Kingsley. Both are sporting an impressive amount of technology and neither should be underestimated at all. So, who would win if these two decided to duke it out in an unpopulated city? Well, that all depends on your vote and your ability to sway other voters with a solid case! Read on to see the specific rules and click the link to head on over to the voting thread.

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated and at night and all standard city lights remain on.
  • Assume they start roughly 50 feet apart and Hobgoblin is on his glider about 20 feet in the air. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc.
  • Everyone has their standard gear.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.
  • Again, this is Roderick Kingsley, not Phil Urich

CLICK HERE TO VOTE!

We understand these aren't exactly the most popular characters around, but that's why you have until this Friday morning (ET) to research them, dive into the debate with others and, of course, cast your vote! As always, Friday's update will include one Viner's argument for the winning character (only posts in the poll thread will be considered and they can't include scans *link above*), the staff's thoughts and if we're extra lucky, thoughts from writers, artists and others in the industry (spoiler: one writer has already provided a blurb)! Viners, it's understandable that debates over "who would win?" can get heated, but please try to keep the conversations informative and not personal.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#1 Posted by Mucklefluga (2596 posts) - - Show Bio

Cardiac is cooler so he wins.

#2 Posted by Mucklefluga (2596 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually he's the coolEST.

#3 Edited by Wolverine08 (44071 posts) - - Show Bio

I have absolutely no knowledge on either combatants abilities. Lol.

#4 Edited by TheCheeseStabber (8157 posts) - - Show Bio

Uhhhh HobGoblin I guess more vicious and more feats

#5 Edited by The Stegman (25171 posts) - - Show Bio

I have absolutely no knowledge on either combatants abilities. Lol.

Ditto.

#6 Posted by darkbeam (2468 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't no much about Cardiac so I'll have to look at some of he's stuff first

#7 Posted by k4tzm4n (49892 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no need to vote right away, ladies and gentlemen.

We understand these aren't exactly the most popular characters around, but that's why you have until this Friday morning (ET) to research them, dive into the debate with others and, of course, cast your vote!

#8 Posted by Wolverine08 (44071 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Edited by sasquatch888 (358 posts) - - Show Bio

this is the worst battle so far i think nobody cares who wins lol

#10 Posted by lior947 (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Kingsley is the original Hobgoblin and the best Hobgoblin ever.

Cardiac is a very interesting and smart character.

I would like to see both characters again is Superior Spider-Man.

Vote: Hobgoblin

#11 Posted by k4tzm4n (49892 posts) - - Show Bio

@lior947 said:

Kingsley is the original Hobgoblin and the best Hobgoblin ever.

Cardiac is a very interesting and smart character.

I would like to see both characters again is Superior Spider-Man.

Vote: Hobgoblin

They've both appeared in the book!

this is the worst battle so far i think nobody cares who wins lol

I love me some constructive criticism.

#12 Posted by k4tzm4n (49892 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbeam said:

I don't no much about Cardiac so I'll have to look at some of he's stuff first

This person is doing it right.

Don't know the characters? Its' a chance to dive back into older stories or at least read the detailed debate (if one occurs, that is).

#13 Edited by lior947 (11 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@lior947 said:

Kingsley is the original Hobgoblin and the best Hobgoblin ever.

Cardiac is a very interesting and smart character.

I would like to see both characters again is Superior Spider-Man.

Vote: Hobgoblin

They've both appeared in the book!

@sasquatch888 said:

this is the worst battle so far i think nobody cares who wins lol

I love me some constructive criticism.

and that is why I said again.

#14 Edited by k4tzm4n (49892 posts) - - Show Bio

@lior947 said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@lior947 said:

Kingsley is the original Hobgoblin and the best Hobgoblin ever.

Cardiac is a very interesting and smart character.

I would like to see both characters again is Superior Spider-Man.

Vote: Hobgoblin

They've both appeared in the book!

@sasquatch888 said:

this is the worst battle so far i think nobody cares who wins lol

I love me some constructive criticism.

and that is why I said again.

Well, to be fair, I don't like reading.

#15 Edited by Mucklefluga (2596 posts) - - Show Bio

I hav looooads of Cardiac comics, he's such a bad-ass. Its the BEST battle K4tz.

#16 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

I know whoL4tz is voting for. I'm gonna go with Cardiac, I feel like Hobs has much more experience, but I feel that Cardiac has a better arsenal and physical states, and I hate Roderick Kingsley's reason for doing things. (Being a rich a$$hole.)

#17 Edited by metalpsips (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Im not reeeally into those characters.Especially Cardiac.I know a bit of this and that about Hobgoblin though.Its a tough battle I think.Cardiac is durable enough,but Hobgoblin has an array of weapons in his disposal,to break his defences.And Cardiac packs up great power,but Hobgoblin is agile enough....

#18 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2011 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know a lot about Cardiac so it's time to hit the books.

@k4tzm4n Pre Crisis Superman vs Thor or New 52 Superman vs Marvel Now Hyperion come one make it happen Please :)

#19 Edited by k4tzm4n (49892 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: Popular matches like Superman vs. Thor or Cap vs. Batman are certainly tempting, but... honestly, I think the end result would be an ugly, ugly bloodbath between Viners. And that would be a bad thing. I need you all for traffic! :P

#20 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2011 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Well not always we might be able to keep it nice and well but if you make a Hulk vs Thor one oh no now there shall be lives lost in that one but I've never really seen Superman vs Thor go out of control and end in a bloodbath as much as I've seen other matchups end that way (but maybe if we put daft punk's get lucky as a theme we might just get lucky and have the debate be respectable). If Superman vs Thor is out of the question why not N52 Superman vs Marvel Now! Hyperion not a very popular match up but it's a very good one in general most people would say Superman but since MNow Hyperion is the most powerful version and N52 Superman is the weakest version overall might make for a good debate.

#21 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know a lot about Cardiac so it's time to hit the books.

Pre Crisis Superman vs Thor or New 52 Superman vs Marvel Now Hyperion come one make it happen Please :)

Also its hard to argue against Hyperion when he is practically featless still. He has some good showings, but thats it. Nothing you can debate with against all the showings of New 52 Superman.

Also we all know much like Flash Debates, Thor is horrible at speed much less a guy who fights at Lightspeed and beats down Goku on Deathbattles and such.

I never understood as a Marvel Fan why people think Thor can take Superman when he has horrible speed showings.

Also Cardiac win this battle.

I agree. I know old Phil Urich is a shades of awesome, but Kingsley never really was. He was more a cloak and dagger character in Spider Stories rather than a legit threat. Most stories involved Kingsley playing the step ahead game with Parker and others to keep his identity secret while causing mayhem for cash.

Cardiac is a fighter from what I read and seen. He has only like 50 Appearances and Hob Goblin has 250+ Appearances. Seems like a no brainer who is more feat heavy, however when you come down to it Kingsley appearances are mostly running around playing keep away. Half of those appearances are not even Kingsley, but some schmuck dressed as Hob Goblin to throw Spidey off.

If this was Phil Urich, or even Demogoblin, I chose the Hob Goblin. Kingsley is not really a fighter at all. He is a waste of story space and thats all.

Cardiac has my vote.

Now I posted my reasoning on both threads, Im outy!

#22 Edited by nerdork (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

I might have to go with Mr. Wirtham here. Eli has a quasi-super intellect and beta-particle-reactor implant that allows him superhuman strength, speed, reflexes and stamina; he can also use the reactor to channel concussive energy blasts with his fists, or through his staff (which makes it a bit more powerful as a focused and piercing attack). He also has vibranium-meshed-skin giving him durability at odds with Black Panther. He doesn’t have nearly as many feats as Hobgoblin, but his feats are just as impressive, sometimes moreso IMO.

Pick up Maximum Carnage to see Cardiac in action

@k4tzm4n I like the match-up. Pretty close, me thinks.

#23 Posted by EvilPenguin543 (179 posts) - - Show Bio

Please do Deadpool vs. Martian Manhunter! MM would probably try to get in Deadpool's head but that's a scary place!

#24 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: How about Genis-vell vs Blue Marvel?

#25 Posted by Neo_Prime666 (82 posts) - - Show Bio

Cardiac wins! vibranium-mesh skin, Nuff said.

#26 Posted by frogdog (3314 posts) - - Show Bio

Phil Urich and awesome in the sentence?

Oh God.

#27 Edited by OrphanCrippler (210 posts) - - Show Bio

I think i'll go with Cardiac. primarily because of his durability

#28 Posted by Kerrigan (240 posts) - - Show Bio

Voted Cardiac, because I think his gear and abilities are superior, although Hobby's viciousness would make it close.

#29 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5157 posts) - - Show Bio

Hobgoblin

#30 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5808 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight going with Cardiac. They are both beast, but Cardiac Is better. Smarter and tougher and I believe has given Spidey more trouble then this version of Hobgoblin.d

#31 Posted by chesskid (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Cardiac

#32 Posted by sasquatch888 (358 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by BizzyBComics1127 (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Cardiac is stronger and will kick Kingsley Goblin's ass. Cardiac has the better fighting ability and is most likely faster than Goblin's 90 mile an hour glider. Those electric blasts will send him to his grave.

#34 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell:

@nelomaxwell said:

@k4tzm4n: How about Genis-vell vs Blue Marvel?

blue marvel

Agreed Blue Marvel! Can we get some hard hitter battles, instead of multiple street leveler's. It's time to step up! Marvel Now Hyperion and Thor vs Superman and Wonder Woman! Up the stakes!

#35 Edited by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2011 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: How is he featless. He held his own against the Hulk, he held 2 planets apart, completely owned the High Evolutionary, Survived the collapsing of 2 universes and was able to damage the Terminus when even Thor's lightning couldn't.

That's actually a very wrong assumption. Thor has actually shown extremely good combat reflexes in battle tagging the likes of Silver Surfer, Quicksilver and so on and so forth he would have no trouble tagging Superman. He has the power, strength, durability, stamina and speed to hang with Superman no question's asked.

#36 Posted by Lvenger (20864 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: How is he featless. He held his own against the Hulk, he held 2 planets apart, completely owned the High Evolutionary, Survived the collapsing of 2 universes and was able to damage the Terminus when even Thor's lightning couldn't.

That's actually a very wrong assumption. Thor has actually shown extremely good combat reflexes in battle tagging the likes of Silver Surfer, Quicksilver and so on and so forth he would have no trouble tagging Superman. He has the power, strength, durability, stamina and speed to hang with Superman no question's asked.

Those feats don't stack up to Superman's benching the Earth to 5 days feats (to counter the abstract double planet feat), punching H'El so hard that the shockwaves could be felt across the planet along with tanking blows from Helspont, H'El, Wraith and other powerful DC characters. New 52 Superman has nearly 2 years worth of feats to call upon to win this battle. Hyperion doesn't have his own book or too many showcasings of his proper combat feats.

Apologies but Cadence is right and it's you who's made a wrong assumption. Thor has trouble tagging Quicksilver, Spider-Man, Moongoose (who Spider-Man was dodging easily) and Captain America completely showed him up in the reactions department. Not to mention that Thor has admitted Wolverine is faster than he is. He's nowhere near as fast as Superman and this is where the edge is squarely in Superman's favour. At the end of the day, Superman's speed is what gives him the win over Thor due to speedblitzing and nanosecond reaction times. I'd advise you check out this thread to see Thor's actual combat speed: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/thor-runs-the-combat-speed-gautlet-691255/

#37 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@cadencev2: How is he featless. He held his own against the Hulk, he held 2 planets apart, completely owned the High Evolutionary, Survived the collapsing of 2 universes and was able to damage the Terminus when even Thor's lightning couldn't.

That's actually a very wrong assumption. Thor has actually shown extremely good combat reflexes in battle tagging the likes of Silver Surfer, Quicksilver and so on and so forth he would have no trouble tagging Superman. He has the power, strength, durability, stamina and speed to hang with Superman no question's asked.

Those feats don't stack up to Superman's benching the Earth to 5 days feats (to counter the abstract double planet feat), punching H'El so hard that the shockwaves could be felt across the planet along with tanking blows from Helspont, H'El, Wraith and other powerful DC characters. New 52 Superman has nearly 2 years worth of feats to call upon to win this battle. Hyperion doesn't have his own book or too many showcasings of his proper combat feats.

Apologies but Cadence is right and it's you who's made a wrong assumption. Thor has trouble tagging Quicksilver, Spider-Man, Moongoose (who Spider-Man was dodging easily) and Captain America completely showed him up in the reactions department. Not to mention that Thor has admitted Wolverine is faster than he is. He's nowhere near as fast as Superman and this is where the edge is squarely in Superman's favour. At the end of the day, Superman's speed is what gives him the win over Thor due to speedblitzing and nanosecond reaction times. I'd advise you check out this thread to see Thor's actual combat speed: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/thor-runs-the-combat-speed-gautlet-691255/

Thank you for saving me the time to waste my breath.

#38 Edited by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2011 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I'm not saying either beat Superman quite the contrary but they have feats showing both can hold their own.

Again it's inconsistency Classic Thor was easily tagging QS (owning him), Spider-Man (owning him also) and (once again owning) and Silver Surfer also you have to take into account that Wolverine is actually extremely fast and has tagged Spider-Man (who has extremely fast reaction time) on multiple occasions The Stracynzki Thor wasn't nearly as fast as he used to be. I obviously give the edge to Superman in the speed department bye a good margin but current Marvel Now Thor and Classic Thor both have very fast combat speed. It's the same as Post Crisis Superman who when he was first starting out wasn't that fast or strong or powerful.

#39 Posted by Lvenger (20864 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: A pleasure. I'm friendly with the guy on here though so I thought I should explain it to him :P

#40 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2011 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Edited by Lvenger (20864 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I'm not saying either beat Superman quite the contrary but they have feats showing both can hold their own.

Again it's inconsistency Classic Thor was easily tagging QS (owning him), Spider-Man (owning him also) and (once again owning) and Silver Surfer also you have to take into account that Wolverine is actually extremely fast and has tagged Spider-Man (who has extremely fast reaction time) on multiple occasions The Stracynzki Thor wasn't nearly as fast as he used to be. I obviously give the edge to Superman in the speed department bye a good margin but current Marvel Now Thor and Classic Thor both have very fast combat speed. It's the same as Pre Crisis Superman who when he was first starting out wasn't that fast or strong or powerful.

The feats you're talking about are from the more classic Marvel comics and are inconsistent with current feats. For example, Thor's godblast in his first fight with Galactus almost killed Galactus

Yet in a later fight with Juggernaut, a full on Godblast only manages to knock Cain back. And Galactus has gone on to own Thor many times after their first fight

Similarly, Thor's microsecond and split second speed feats from the classic age are inconsistent with Thor's showings of speed from later speed feats. For the record, Thor's never directly hit Quicksilver. He only tagged him with an Area of Effect attack. Masterson did the same thing to Spider-Man. And Wolverine got hit with a bolt of lighting. Thor's hard pressed to land a physical touch on fast moving foes because he lacks the speed and reactions to cope with them. But evidently, he can beat most fast moving foes because of his raw power. However, when faced with a foe who has at least as much raw power as him along with being faster than foes Thor can't tag, he's going to lose the fight big time. As for Silver Surfer, Surfer doesn't use his speed when fighting Thor.

#42 Edited by henrik (562 posts) - - Show Bio

Cardiac ftw.

#43 Posted by Enzeru--defunct (2923 posts) - - Show Bio
@lvenger said:

Those feats don't stack up to Superman's [...] punching H'El so hard that the shockwaves could be felt across the planet [...]



- Superman's punch:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3268378-1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3268379-2.jpg

What I get from that feat is:

1. Superman was not holding back,
2. It was stated that the punch would have leveled a mountain,
3. It was not felt across the planet, but only all the way down to the Earth's core, which is a radius from 4000 miles and 4000 miles less than what's actually needed to be felt across the planet, so you're exaggarating a little bit,
4. On top of that it was also felt in the farthest edges of our atmosphere, which is only around 600 miles...

I'm not trying to start an argument here and hi-jack the topic, but if we're serious about that one, then Hyperion could just stand there and laugh at Superman, while saying stuff like: "Dude, I've taken 2 universal explosions to the face and lived to tell tales about it. What do you think you can do to me with your punches, which are only capable of leveling mountains?"

- On top of all that Superman also stated that his punches can level mountains, when he was describing his powers:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3268414-3.jpg

On topic:

Unfortunately Cardiac wins, due to superior equipment.
But I do see Hobgoblin giving him a fight - he has Osborn's powers, without the side effects and is a damn smart fighter, so he'll stay in the fight for quite some time, but Cardiac simply has the equipment advantage and a slight advantage in terms of power.

#45 Posted by Grimoire (551 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't know much about either of them so I can't vote this time around. lol

#48 Posted by AlKusanagi (620 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't paid attention to Cardiac since the 90s. Has the character drastically changed since then?

#49 Posted by k4tzm4n (49892 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't paid attention to Cardiac since the 90s. Has the character drastically changed since then?

Nope.

#50 Edited by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not familiar with Cardiac, LOL