Combat/Reflex Speed Wolverine vs Batman

@wolverine08: Like I said earlier in the thread. If Wolverine is faster, its not a noticeable difference. I'm not saying Batman is faster than Wolverine. I think this is a stalemate. I'm just getting to the point that just because one is superhuman, doesn't mean he is faster than human perfection. Not with feats like Bruce's. Nightwing is peak human but he's no where near as fast as Batman or Wolverine..

OK, that is fair enough.

@monsterstomp: Good point about Nightwing, but I think that because Wolverine is a low level superhuman, he will have a slight edge in speed compared to Batman.

@wolverine08: Fair enough. Glad we understand each other.

@monsterstomp: *Internet fist bump*

For better or worse, the terms "peak human" and "super human" are really grey lines in comics. Captain America is considered "super human" by name, but if you look at his stats he's peak human or very low level super human. Same could be argued with Wolverine or Batman in my opinion, it really depends on the writer and what they want them to be able to do at that time I guess.

As for this thread, I personally think they are roughly equal, with maybe Wolverine edging a slight speed edge.

But like Cap, Batman often seems faster than he is in combat because expert combatants can predict what an opponent will do by subtle body movement. A shift in weight, the spacing of their feet, the squareness of their body, it is all clues as to what to expect. While Wolverine in raw speed may potentially be faster, it's Batman's ability to read an opponent in combat that gives him the illusion of great speed.

Or perhaps that's how I interpret it to keep the realm of "peak" and "super" human separate. Either way it's may two cents.

They're about even.

LOL.

@monsterstomp: Do it! Bump your fist against your computer screen!

@wolverine08: *smash, smash, samaash* lol.

Wolverine, he's faster than Thor.

OH SNAP.

id say wolverine is faster than bats but lately he doesn't show it. He just tanks damage while he fights. He couldn't barely tag black panther recently

bump. Any others?

@cfrehse: to be fair we don't exactly know the full details of black panthers upgrade...

And we also know that a lot of Wolverine's stats are helped by his healing factor. He still has the adamantium, and right now Wolverine isn't exactly in peak psychological or physical condition for that matter. Even T'Challa pointed out Logan was acting strange.

@god_spawn: is wolverines speed connected to his healing factor though? I think the drug beast gave wolverine has stopped adamantium from having the negative effects it normally would on wolverine.

@jashro44: I would like to think it is, at least to some degree. Quite a few bios put his enhanced agility and reflexes in parts contributing to his hf, which allows him to push his body much farther than normal. And Beast said he found a way to counteract the poisoning, not necessarily counteract the added strain it puts on his body. I think Wolverine is basically beak human on a standard physical level anyway. I mean, he is moving around with the adamantium without dragging his body, but without the added benefit of his healing factor to keep his body in pristine condition, I'd think he wouldn't be able to move as fast or be as strong without it.

@cadencev2:

Didn't Deathstroke get his shit kicked by a normal thug after that.

Apparently a guy who "kicks horses" for fun put Deathstroke down after that.

It's funny that there was so much dissent. Last time I implied that their speed was even close I was treated like a bumbling idiot.

Also, an X men handbook stated that Wolverine has the strength of a normal man of his height and build who participated in intensive regular exercise.

@god_spawn: I think they probably were just mentioning his enhanced physicals in that paragraph because they just made mention his stamina was beyond peak and they were leading into that wolverine is beyond human levels in physicals. I don't think the mention of super human reflexes gets its own paragraph in bios usually. I think wolverines physicals are about the same. All though he is afraid of death so he might not be mentally 100%.

I recently got some scans showing Wolverine's speed show I thought I'd share them.

Keeps even pace with Spider-Man (a guy that's dodged TEN snipers shooting at him at at once, easily outraces cars, dodge Iron Man's repulsor blasts, etc), and moves so fast he even makes him say "Is he.... faster than me?".

Easily dodges X-23 (who has superhuman speed), while trying to not hurt her while creating after images.

Vanishes in plain sight.

Tags Speed Demon

Dodges bullets fired from a helicopter and a missle.

• Vanishes after a mere second of being outside of Andrew Bennett's (a powerful vampire with enhanced senses) vision.

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• Gets the jump on Cheetah, who also has enhanced senses, and easily knocks her out.

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• Disappears before a cop and reappears behind him.

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• In The Dark Knight, Batman evades Forbes without him even knowing.

• Despite being weakened and battered, Bruce still vanishes from Bane's sight.

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• Even Azrael, with Nomoz standing right behind him, lose sight of Batman in a single second.

• Manages to vanish before Mr.Terrific's eyes.

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• Deadshot loses track of Batman after trying to shoot him (granted he has a history of pulling his shots, the villains next to him also lost sight of him).

• Not even Jay Garrick can find The Dark Knight once he vanishes.

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• Martian Manhunter loses Batman after a second of the lights are shut down.

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• In their first meeting, Batman already pulls his Houdini trick on Superman.

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• Both Superman and Captain Atom lose Batman after they turn around.

• In the New 52, a young Batman sneaks up on a young Superman, AND manages to put a small bat-tracker on his cape.

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• Once again, pulls the disappearance act on Superman.

• Dodges a volley of batarangs shot by Azrael.

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• Dodges a multiple rockets while fighting a thug.

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• Dodges Heatstroke's blasts.

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• Dodges Mr.Freeze's blasts in point-blank range.

• Dodges Dr.Light's beams.

• Dodges Malik's light constructs and manages to close the gap.

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• Dodges and outruns explosive mines in very close range.

• Dodges a drive-by shooting (sub-machine guns) while saving a person, and catches up with the car.

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• Grabs a gun from a trained government agent before he even knows it.

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• Easily grabs the gun from a cop and breaks her nose right after.

• Speed-blitz a bunch of cops pointing pistols at him.

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• Takes the guns from the Hungarian Special Forces with a cyclone move before they can react.

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There's more, but I think this proves the point well enough. Batman is faster by feats.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Nice scans man! I still think Wolverine edges out Batman in speed though.

Its debatable.

They are both pretty quick.My two favorite characters.Batman speed is insane for a human.Wolverine hold is own.Its hard to say who has faster reflex.

True about it being debatable. I just think Wolverine moving so fast that Spider-Man even thought he could be faster than him shows that he's faster than Batman. Spidey is in a completely different league speed wise than Bats, and would dance circles around him if the wanted to. Logan keeping such an even pace with him is pretty incredible.

@wolverine08 said:

Even though Superman was slower because of his mind control, this is still very impressive.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: That is crazy impressive...I think just because of that I have to give Bats the edge lol.

Jmarshmallow

Woah, that is impressive. Even though I do think Logan is faster than Bats, the difference probably isn't that much since Logan is just a low level superhuman.

I find Wolverine is the faster of the two and has the better combat speed feats.

I dunno if anyone's posted it yet but Wolverine can enhance his speed to superhuman levels:

I tend to think Wolverine is the faster of the two; he tends to exhibit a higher level of speed more often in combat situations.

@sovereign91001:

Sweet scans.

@wolverine08: Thanks. They're from Wolverine #4

@wolverine08: Not to completely dismiss it, but I'd say the Spider-Man fight is more of a low showing for Spider Man than a high showing for Wolverine.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Wow dude! They might as well give Batman teleportation powers. That disappearing act he did on Superman and Captain Atom was insane.

I'd still give the Combat/Reflex speed to Wolverine though.

That was a pretty sick feat by Batman.

Not sure why people always insist on calling Batman "peak human" as if that means something. Any way you look at it he has superhuman speed. There's plenty of scans on this thread to show that.

I think people are confusing stealth feats with speed feats.

@jashro44: More like disappearing acts to combat/reflex feats.

@thebourneposter: In Scarlet Spider #18 Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was astonished by Wolverine's speed. While Kaine was having dodging all the automatic machine gun fire they were taking without spider sense, Kaine noted that "Wolverine hadn't even been touched. And that for a short hairy guy weighing one thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja."

So while I see where you're coming from with your remark about Spider-Man I really don't think it's a low showing.

@wolverine08: It's definitely not something to be hand waved away, it's a great feat. Kaine being impressed by his speed is also a good feat.

I just want to say that spider-man has commented on wolverines speed more then once. In his fight with daken when daken was landing more strikes, Peter remarked "he moves like dad". Granted he was disorientated by pheromones but still. Its not a low showing for Peter, or a high showing for wolverine. Its consistent for spider-like characters to be impressed by his speed. I think there is a 3rd time Peter commented that wolverine was fast but I can't remember. Obviously spider-man is faster but the gap isn't as big as some would think based on Peters comments.

@wolverine08: I like how your credibility is limited to insulting other users.

Wolverine Speed vs Batman

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Great Debating skills. LOL.

Still Wolverine, and in a fight, unless Bats gets prep he gets owned.Batman can only be superior if he gets prep.Reflex or fight Wolverine is better.

Stop mentioning me in different articles to try coax a puerile argument. If you don't, I'll just start flagging you, and report you to a mod. Try me :)

Flag away. Your the one who kept hassling me about Lowballing, now you cant take it when I show ya your colors in a debate? You want to talk smack about how I am being discredited by your skills?

Look at your skills. I highlighted them. Next time you want to troll me around forums and keep tagging me to remind me how bad at debating I am, take a good look at your skills above there. Loved how you even called MonsterStomp a clown. Good stuff. :)

LOL, this coming from the guy who was singing with the Ennis showing where Wolverine got taken out with a nerve strike until GodSpawn completely annihilated your argument. Great debating skills buddy. I also noted to you multiple times in both his solo titles and team books where he demonstrated superhuman speed, and kept up with people who have superhuman speed, and you still stick with the peak human label. Like I said, keep harassing me, and I'll just flag you and report you to a mod. It looks like you want to be banned today :)

Interesting thread. By all logic Wolverine should be far faster but by feats Bruce isn't that far off.

no Wolverine is the "Spider" level speed category. Batman is at his very very best moments equal to Captain America. the 2 are not comparable at all