@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Thats only wrecker and piledriver, plus they are the walking embodiment of jobbing. Carnage is a tough match up for guys like them too. I think 4 on 1 they would win.
Also, Piledriver may be as strong as Colossus. And The wreckers crowbar has gone toe to toe with Mjolnir and Thunderball is a genius. Wrecking Crew FTW all day.
Thunderball Alone has taken Savage Hulk in a drag out match. Colossus one on one with any of these guys minus Wrecker and Thunderball could win Majority. Wrecker and Thunderball be more even. All 4? Its a stomp.
Thunderball Alone has taken Savage Hulk in a drag out match. Colossus one on one with any of these guys minus Wrecker and Thunderball could win Majority. Wrecker and Thunderball be more even. All 4? Its a stomp.
And Thunderball's gotten his arse kicked by Captain America.
@Super_SoldierXII: colossus been beaten by Dracula easy as well. One Shotted physicaly actually.
Fact is Cap has beaten Mr. Hyde, Ultron, and Spider Man in Stark armour. Cap has fought plenty of characters he has no buisness fighting.
Well if im not mistaken didn't Wrecker earn his powers from the Norn Queen? and if so these guys should never job to the people they job to....hate to say it but i love cap it shows what heart can do in a fight.
@Super_SoldierXII: colossus been beaten by Dracula easy as well. One Shotted physicaly actually.
Fact is Cap has beaten Mr. Hyde, Ultron, and Spider Man in Stark armour. Cap has fought plenty of characters he has no buisness fighting.
Dracula's also gone up against Thor and Silver Surfer ... he's a mystical force with whom writers have shown a great deal of inconsistency, so him 'one-shotting' a late 70's early 80's Piotr is not a deal breaker (I'd have to reread the book though, because I'm sure context is being skewed just a little ... ).
- Alpha Flight, I can show Wolverine doing just as good on his lonesome against Alpha Flight. So, whatever.
- Defenders. Let's breakdown exactly what you've shown shall we? We've got Luke Cage, in his 10 tonner incarnation (or less), pretty much one shotting Cannonball, then Strange steels their powers. Dummy Hulk takes out Strange which releases the Crew, Hulk tangos for a few with the Crew one shotting Piledriver (nothing impressive, a lot of plot driven dialogue), Hulk throws the Wrecker to Luke Cage who punches him down as well, the Crew do an area of effect attack and pretty much run away. Yawn. Next.
- THOR AND HERCULES (in caps as your pics are completely out of context). OK, and here's the kicker, you're completely ripping out those pics and ignoring context. Hercules' morale was at an all time low. Thor ALLOWED the Wrecking Crew to beat on him to get Hercules adequately worked up and out of his self defeating rut. Hercules absolutely destroyed them and only lost previously because his confidence was at an all time crushing low. He beat himself.
- The Crew vs. a powered down Cain Marko. Nuff said. Next ...
- The Avenger's fight is the only real strong showing of the bunch. And really, based on other showings, and based on the fact most members are not doing anything anywhere near their potential, I call plot. Thor's destroyed them more often than not on his lonesome ... them having any kind of strong showing against him is plot related and only quasi impressive on the surface. They have no business being 'Thor' villains in today's books. And today's books know it. (Let alone taking on a team of Avengers. Heck, the Vision, Wonder Man and / or Iron Man could solo if written half intelligently.)
- Finally, Wrecker tagging Spider-Man like that and actually catching Wolverine's hand is likewise extremely plot driven. And Logan's claws doing little sissy scratches is the writer selling out and listening to editorial dos and don't s. Because they seem to ram straight through the core of folks sporting healing factors (Grey Hulk anyone?). Everyone else gets a sissy scratch pass. But whatever. The Wrecker could, perhaps, BFR Wolverine but odds are better Logan could solo. In fact, that team was not all that impressive, as the only real threat to Wrecker was Wolverine. Luke Cage is a B-lister. Spider-Man doesn't have the damage output (but would probably think of something before the Wrecker could / should lay a glove on him) and Spider-Woman would get scrunched. Sure, she has her pheromone thingy to save the day, but without her teammates, not so much.
My list of low end feats for the Wrecking Crew would put your purported 'good' showings listed above to shame. I'll save them for round two.
Colossus could win here. He's well over class 100 nowadays (before Cyttorak). The modern Crew are not even close ... even collectively.
This is most definitely not a stomp. I'm not even going to mention the modern day Crew were downgraded and share the Wreckers power now (at his discretion), and are ten tonners at best ... the Wrecker being the only one resting at a comfortable 50 tons.
@Super_SoldierXII: colossus been beaten by Dracula easy as well. One Shotted physicaly actually.
Fact is Cap has beaten Mr. Hyde, Ultron, and Spider Man in Stark armour. Cap has fought plenty of characters he has no buisness fighting.
Dracula's also gone up against Thor and Silver Surfer ... he's a mystical force with whom writers have shown a great deal of inconsistency, so him 'one-shotting' a late 70's early 80's Piotr is not a deal breaker (I'd have to reread the book though, because I'm sure context is being skewed just a little ... ).
- Alpha Flight, I can show Wolverine doing just as good on his lonesome against Alpha Flight. So, whatever.
- Defenders. Let's breakdown exactly what you've shown shall we? We've got Luke Cage, in his 10 tonner incarnation (or less), pretty much one shotting Cannonball, then Strange steels their powers. Dummy Hulk takes out Strange which releases the Crew, Hulk tangos for a few with the Crew one shotting Piledriver (nothing impressive, a lot of plot driven dialogue), Hulk throws the Wrecker to Luke Cage who punches him down as well, the Crew do an area of effect attack and pretty much run away. Yawn. Next.
- THOR AND HERCULES (in caps as your pics are completely out of context). OK, and here's the kicker, you're completely ripping out those pics and ignoring context. Hercules' morale was at an all time low. Thor ALLOWED the Wrecking Crew to beat on him to get Hercules adequately worked up and out of his self defeating rut. Hercules absolutely destroyed them and only lost previously because his confidence was at an all time crushing low. He beat himself.
- The Crew vs. a powered down Cain Marko. Nuff said. Next ...
- The Avenger's fight is the only real strong showing of the bunch. And really, based on other showings, and based on the fact most members are not doing anything anywhere near their potential, I call plot. Thor's destroyed them more often than not on his lonesome ... them having any kind of strong showing against him is plot related and only quasi impressive on the surface. They have no business being 'Thor' villains in today's books. And today's books know it. (Let alone taking on a team of Avengers. Heck, the Vision, Wonder Man and / or Iron Man could solo if written half intelligently.)
- Finally, Wrecker tagging Spider-Man like that and actually catching Wolverine's hand is likewise extremely plot driven. And Logan's claws doing little sissy scratches is the writer selling out and listening to editorial dos and don't s. Because they seem to ram straight through the core of folks sporting healing factors (Grey Hulk anyone?). Everyone else gets a sissy scratch pass. But whatever. The Wrecker could, perhaps, BFR Wolverine but odds are better Logan could solo. In fact, that team was not all that impressive, as the only real threat to Wrecker was Wolverine. Luke Cage is a B-lister. Spider-Man doesn't have the damage output (but would probably think of something before the Wrecker could / should lay a glove on him) and Spider-Woman would get scrunched. Sure, she has her pheromone thingy to save the day, but without her teammates, not so much.
My list of low end feats for the Wrecking Crew would put your purported 'good' showings listed above to shame. I'll save them for round two.
Colossus could win here. He's well over class 100 nowadays (before Cyttorak). The modern Crew are not even close ... even collectively.
This is most definitely not a stomp. I'm not even going to mention the modern day Crew were downgraded and share the Wreckers power now (at his discretion), and are ten tonners at best ... the Wrecker being the only one resting at a comfortable 50 tons.
What makes most of this funny is how you TRY to ratinalise their showings as All Poor and PIS. Wow....
I guess Colossus wins as he wasted Defenders... no wait... stod up to avengers... no he didnt.... ummm..... overpowerd a Depowered Juggss.... no Juggs would have still won.... Huh what is great feats of Colossus again?!
Colossus could win here. He's well over class 100 nowadays (before Cyttorak). The modern Crew are not even close ... even collectively.
This is most definitely not a stomp. I'm not even going to mention the modern day Crew were downgraded and share the Wreckers power now (at his discretion), and are ten tonners at best ... the Wrecker being the only one resting at a comfortable 50 tons.
Whoa.. when did they become 10 tonners? Where is the proof their 10 Tonners? I seen them still nearly beat the New Avengers as part of Hoods Gang if it wasnt for Dr. Strange using Mass Hullucinations and even then it took a combine effoet to beat them first and formost! If there 10 Tonners then Luke Cage would waste them as hes a 25 tonner..... How recent it recent?
I also read that the Crew had to share a portion of power and were down to the 10ton range, but that was a while back so i dont know if that could have been changed again...
What makes most of this funny is how you TRY to ratinalise their showings as All Poor and PIS. Wow....
Sorry. That's just how I read the material in question. Not really rationalizing ... it's what happens and how it happens. Do you have points to make to contradict the way I interpreted the material? If so, I'm open to discussion.
I can get back to you with some Colossus feats a little later.
@Super_SoldierXII: colossus been beaten by Dracula easy as well. One Shotted physicaly actually.
You say this as if the Wrecking Crew could take Dracula. The X-Men couldn't so how could the Wrecking Crew? Cyclops alone would be too much for the Wrecking Crew.
@CadenceV2 said:
Fact is Cap has beaten Mr. Hyde, Ultron, and Spider Man in Stark armour. Cap has fought plenty of characters he has no buisness fighting.
Cap has no business beating Mr.Hyde? A character who's been beaten by Daredevil over 5 times? That makes sense? Also Cap never beaten Spider-Man in armor. That fight ended with Cap being the only one who had taken damage. I don't know when he beat Ultron but I can only assume something is left out.
Piledriver and no other member of this team is as strong as Colossus or even close. They are all class 10-15 accept The Wrecker whom is class 35.
Hmmm I hate arguing with Moderators (unless I know your totaly wrong) but I will post these as this Statment confuses me when I see this. Explain these to me as I do not have the issues.
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Wrecker outpower Iron Fist IF attack.
Gallery
Sasquatch is a near 100 tonner and gets pwn badly.
Gallery
Sure in this Herc is being a wuss but hes Thors is fighting the team and needs Hercs help?!
Gallery
Wrecker Tangles with BRB hardcore in this.
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Depowered Jugg or not Cain is still 100+ Tonner and gets beaten down easily......
Im not getting where they are so Weak all of a sudden.... They as a Team beaten or easily kept up with 100+ Tonners as seen.
Dr. Saquatch
Depowered Juggs
Beta Ray Bill
Luke Cage, Spider Woman, Spider Man, and Wolverine
Dr. Strange, Savage Hulk, Luke Cage, and Others Street Leveler.
Thor and Herculese
Thor by himself
Iron Fist and Luke cage
Seriously where the hack are they getting beaten by Colossus in a majority match?
Im not getting where they are so Weak all of a sudden.... They as a Team beaten or easily kept up with 100+ Tonners as seen.
Dr. Saquatch
Depowered Juggs
Beta Ray Bill
Luke Cage, Spider Woman, Spider Man, and Wolverine
Dr. Strange, Savage Hulk, Luke Cage, and Others Street Leveler.
Thor and Herculese
Thor by himself
Iron Fist and Luke cage
Seriously where the hack are they getting beaten by Colossus in a majority match?
It's not all of a sudden. They were ALWAYS weak, at least weaker than Colossus. The Wrecker at his strongest is only class 35-40 and he's the strongest character in the group. What people need to know about the Wrecking Crew is that they absorb energy, especially from Asgardians (which makes the fights with Bill and Thor less impressive) when they have nothing to absorb they are a bunch of class 10's. Also when The Wrecker fights BRB in Omega Flight he's amped by Tanaraq.
Here's a fight from Secret Wars between the Wrecking Crew, Colossus & Doc Ock. Notice they tell the Wrecker "Hit him before he kills us" Colossus goes down, but remember this is a much weaker version of Colossus & The Wrecker's Crowbar was comparable to Mjolnir at this time.
Gallery
The fight between the Wrecker and the New Avengers (Cage,Jess,Parker,Wolvie) didn't end with him winning..it ended like this. They did beat the Defenders with Hulk on the team, but The Defenders also returned the favor (this is two different fights between issue 18-19)....
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Thor soloing the Wrecker after he decides to kill a civilian...
@Vance Astro: Yeah I have the comic of Wrecker fighting NAs and he only lost due to Spider woman Pheramones that allowed him to be disarmed and Cage beating him. It was still good showing for Wrecker.
I also know they Asorb Energy as (at least Thunder Ball and Wrecker via BallnChain and Crowbar do) to amp up. However they have beaten matched far greater heavy weights like Thor, Savage Hulk for a time and outright defeated Dr. Sasquatch and Depowered Juggs. 4 on colossus should wreck him like they have other 100 tonners.
@Vance Astro: Yeah I have the comic of Wrecker fighting NAs and he only lost due to Spider woman Pheramones that allowed him to be disarmed and Cage beating him. It was still good showing for Wrecker.
How is it a good showing for a class 40 to hold his own with a group of characters whose strongest member is class 25?
@CadenceV2 said:
I also know they Asorb Energy as (at least Thunder Ball and Wrecker via BallnChain and Crowbar do) to amp up. However they have beaten matched far greater heavy weights like Thor, Savage Hulk for a time and outright defeated Dr. Sasquatch and Depowered Juggs. 4 on colossus should wreck him like they have other 100 tonners.
When you read those issues and see what they've done in context, and you consider what their weapons do, they aren't really that impressive. They are amped in alot of their fights and there were variables that wouldn't apply to the current Wrecking Crew.
Colossus loses, although the wrecking Crew are villains and naturally have a loss record they still have more impressive feats against more impressive opponents...unless Colossus fought Thor at some point...
- Alphacker Flight, I can show Wolverine doing just as good on his lonesome against Alpha Flight. So, whatever.
Wreckers didnt do much of anything to alpha flight and if you think wolverine did anything worth while against them that isn't PIS you are surely mistaken.
Interesting debate but some confusing facts are present. If the Wrecking Crew really is only around 10 - 40 tons vs when they are ampled on energy, how are they beating a near 100 tonner (or possibly 100 tons) Colossus?
@Vance Astro: Well I see what ya mean now with Amped up. I still think they can beat before Juggernaut Peter as his feats I Remember wernt that impressive from the 80s to early 90s. The Crowbar and Thunderball are at play here.
Unless we have some impressive Peter vs team feats?
- Alphacker Flight, I can show Wolverine doing just as good on his lonesome against Alpha Flight. So, whatever.
Wreckers didnt do much of anything to alpha flight and if you think wolverine did anything worth while against them that isn't PIS you are surely mistaken.
Colossus loses, although the wrecking Crew are villains and naturally have a loss record they still have more impressive feats against more impressive opponents...unless Colossus fought Thor at some point...
Wolverine's technically 'fought' Thor too. Even cut him and commented how much slower he was moving (thinking he was Sabretooth). Does this mean he deserves to be on the same panel in a brawl with him? Just fighting someone without doing much doesn't mean much. As Vance pointed out, the Crew feed off Asgardian energy. Which is the only reason they don't get flattened ... that and Thor seems to only act like the 'god' he is when off world (conveniently enough).
Colossus loses, although the wrecking Crew are villains and naturally have a loss record they still have more impressive feats against more impressive opponents...unless Colossus fought Thor at some point...
Their feats are only more impressive because their strength fluctuates. Their newer feats that are impressive like against Sasquatch and Beta Ray Bill happened when they were amped beyond their normal levels. It's not consistent with their regular production. They are FACTUALLY all class 10 accept for the Wrecker who is class 15. Without anyone's energy to absorb..they have no way to amp themselves, leaving them hopeless underpowered.
@sandiego008 said:
wolverine did anything worth while against them that isn't PIS you are surely mistaken.
After seeing them have trouble even touching Iron Fist, I don't see how Wolverine doing anything to them would be PIS. They are unskilled,not very smart in combat,and slow. Wolverine has them in speed and fighting skill by miles and has adamantium claws. Being perfectly HONEST he could beat the Wrecking Crew alone.
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