#1 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

note: this battle is not as simple as rock vs. steel, Ben's skin is made up of a substance that resembles rock.

Fight takes place... does it really matter?

#2 Posted by Hedatary (3768 posts) - - Show Bio

Colossus.

#3 Posted by Hedatary (3768 posts) - - Show Bio

Korg says:

"A couple years ago I would've said Thing for sure. Now I'd go with Colossus. I think he's quicker and a bit savvier than Thing and I think their strength is probably around the same. I believe Colossus could use his agility to his advantage and come out on top in this fight."

Not at all. During the world war hulk, Hulk complimented Colossus during there battle saying something about "You could have been a great rival before, now your just like the rest of them."

Normal Hulk and Colossus have around the same strength. And thing is weaker than norm hulk. So yea, Colossus wins.

#4 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

A couple years ago I would've said Thing for sure. Now I'd go with Colossus. I think he's quicker and a bit savvier than Thing and I think their strength is probably around the same. I believe Colossus could use his agility to his advantage and come out on top in this fight.

#5 Posted by LexiCat (5284 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh I may be entirely biased. Wait.. no. No, I'm sure I'm biased. I can't stand Colossus, so I would actually pay Ben as much money as I could spare to beat him to a pulp.

#6 Posted by Hedatary (3768 posts) - - Show Bio

If i can i would. I'm not as much resourceful as some of you guys.

#7 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

Hedatary says:

Normal Hulk and Colossus have around the same strength. And thing is weaker than norm hulk. So yea, Colossus wins."

Can you back this up/give citations?

#8 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

So you based that on nothing in particular?

#9 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Thing and Colossus are around the same strength and durability level, given that, I think the real fight is going to be decided by fighting ability. Thing has been doing it longer, even before he got his powers (Not to mention Colossus was "dead" for a while) and while at his core, Ben is a great fighter with a lot of heart, at Peter's core is a Russian farmboy. Colossus only really fights when it can't be avoided, he's a peaceful guy, but Ben has no problem beating people up and that affects how and how often they train. Since Colossus prefers not to fight, he is bound to spend less time training (in fact he spends a lot of time painting, go figure) than Ben.

#10 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

Colossus has full access to the Danger Room, and has since he was pretty young. Also, you don't op out of Danger Room training sessions. Not while Cyclops is in charge (which is about 90% of the time). Just because Piotr likes to paint and has a sensitive side doesn't mean he can't tear house. He can and has on many occasions. I actually think Colossus has probably trained far more than Grimm, who is usually pictured as lying around reading/playing video games. He relies more on his brute strength, whereas Colossus is a more well-rounded fighter.

#11 Posted by Hedatary (3768 posts) - - Show Bio

Korg says:

"So you based that on nothing in particular?"

No. From memory.

#12 Posted by LexiCat (5284 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I suppose I should give my non biased answer now.

Ben Grimm has been one of the original "tough guys" of the Marvel Universe for a long time. He never shys away from a fight and has always given everything he has everytime he's had to fight. He uses his assets, ie his brute strength and density, to his advantage. He is willing to throw himself, literally, in the line of fire if it means turning the tide. He has that no-nonsense attitude to go along with his strength and literally does seem to remind me of a heavyweight boxer.

Piotr Rasputin, on the other hand, has always been a "fight if I have to" type person. He is extremely dedicated to the cause and will not run in the face of being outnumbered or outgunned. He may not possess the temperment that Ben does, but he does possess the same strengh when using his powers. Having trained on some of Wolverine's simulations in the Danger Room at the X-Mansion, he's well versed in hand to hand combat and many types of situations where his strength is needed to turn the tide. As he's grown and matured, Piotr has developed a more serene personality away from battle, but I'm not sure this takes his edge away.

When it comes right down to it, I'm not sure I can pick a clear-cut winner. I would say that based on their strength and determination alone, it would be a draw. A draw with a whole lot of collateral damage.

#13 Posted by Legendary Bio Vishanti (3333 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm...Colossus FTW. I'll provide a case later, right now I'm gonna go play with my dog. Cya.

#14 Posted by Unbelonger (2770 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben Grimm.

zzzzzzzzzzz

#15 Posted by King Saturn (224187 posts) - - Show Bio

Colossus should be able to take Thing out

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#16 Posted by Vendel (352 posts) - - Show Bio

Hummm... Hulk's punching bag vs Juggernaut's punching bag?

Could go either way.

Although if you held a gun to my head I would say big C.

#17 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna say Thing.

#18 Posted by Xeron (293 posts) - - Show Bio

Colossus is much stronger and they're pretty equal in hand-to-hand, Colossus wins.

#19 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio

The Thing is tougher though a think Colossus is a bit stronger.

I go with the Thing because of his experience in fighting stronger opponents.

#20 Posted by The Buse (25 posts) - - Show Bio

Alpha says:

"The Thing is tougher though a think Colossus is a bit stronger.I go with the Thing because of his experience in fighting stronger opponents. "

Your analysis is accurate. Being a black belt of several fighting forms. Mind and meditation will always surpass over matter.

#21 Posted by POHOCOM (807 posts) - - Show Bio

On paper you would think Colossus should win. He's bigger, with greater durability and probably stronger. Despite these advantages I can't help but think of the VAST experience in fighting that Thing has over Colossus. Not only has he had more formal training in hand to hand combat, but his experiences with the Hulk must give him a big edge. After fighting the Hulk a couple dozen times over the years, the Thing should be able fare better against Colossus who is less powerful, and far less brutal than Hulk. Also, much like Hercules, Grimm loves a good fight, while Colossus doesn't quite have that warrior spirit. Because of those intangibles, I lean towards Thing in a great fight.

#22 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

Where do you guys keep coming up with these "Colossus is stronger" and Thing is tougher" etc...? Care to cite your sources?

#23 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

Super-Buster says:

"Where do you guys keep coming up with these "Colossus is stronger" and Thing is tougher" etc...? Care to cite your sources?"

They are both the same strength level..100 tons.Neither has the potential to be stronger than that.You can't judge either's toughness because there aren't many opponents that have a chance to beat them.Toughness doesn't count here..you can either beat the other or you can't.I'm calling this a draw.

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#24 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

Again, where are you getting these numbers?

#25 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

Korg says:

"Again, where are you getting these numbers?"

Marvel handbook.

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#26 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

If we're assuming their toughness and strength to be equal (which we should unless someone can prove one is tougher and/or stronger than the other) then this fight boils down to who can fight better. I've already said that I think Ben fights better since he's been fighting for longer and because Colossus doesn't have the heart of a fighter like Thing has.

#27 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

Super-Buster says:

"If we're assuming their toughness and strength to be equal (which we should unless someone can prove one is tougher and/or stronger than the other) then this fight boils down to who can fight better. I've already said that I think Ben fights better since he's been fighting for longer and because Colossus doesn't have the heart of a fighter like Thing has."

No the fight boils down to...who can actually hurt the other. Not much is actually able to hurt either character.I can't think of many instances where either was knocked out.Ben is a good fighter but I don't think he's better than Colossus. I could be wrong but people keep saying that Ben is a good fighter but don't have any sources. All I have seen him do is punch and throw characters. I never see him use any actual skill. That heart of a fighter sh!t doesn't count for anything.

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#28 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read a Marvel Handbook in a while but i thought Colossus was a 70ish tonner and the Thing was 80ish tonner...so the Thing has at least 10 tons more punching power. They are probably equally impervious. I think the Things shear tenacity would allow him to win eventually, unless Colossus could land his most powerful blow ever and knock him out, probably break his arm in the process too.
Post Edited:2008-04-02 15:33:44

#29 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

Logic Mark III says:

"I haven't read a Marvel Handbook in a while but i thought Colossus was a 70ish tonner and the Thing was 80ish tonner...so the Thing has at least 10 tens more punching power. They are probably equally impervious. I think the Things shear tenacity would allow him to win eventually, unless Colossus could land his most powerful blow ever and knock him out, probably break his arm in the process too."

The Thing and Colossus have had a power upgrade.The Thing is not stronger than Colossus.The only factor here is who has what it takes to actually damage the other?

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#30 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance: The heart of a fighter counts for more than you think, it means that Thing is a lot more motivated than Colossus is to fight and it has been proven (even in standard work environments) that if a person is more motivated to do their job (whether its playing football or beating the snot out of somebody) that they do their job better. As far as skill goes, the simple fact of Thing's experience means he knows a thing or two that Colossus doesn't. Thing doesn't usually show his skill because he is usually put against people that he doesn't need much skill to take down and it makes sense to just rely on his power. However, when Thing faces threats that are at least as large as he is (like during WWH) he shows his skill, (landing several successful blows and giving a better showing than any other super-strength types.) These guys were given strength on par with their durability, I think they would be able to hurt each other.

#31 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Been looking around a bit and apparently Colossus is class 100 now [WTF?!!?!?] so in actual fact he is stronger [Thing still seems to be an 85 tonner] so that knockout punch i was talking about seems a little more possible...but dont discount the Things heart, it allowed him to last longer against some tough S.O.B [I forget his name] when every other Marvel heavy hitter had been beat down.

#32 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

@Logic: Did you read Thing's bio? through training with Reed's machines he can now lift 100 tons as well.

#33 Posted by Robby_Rathbone (73 posts) - - Show Bio

Looking at Marvel.Com here's what they say "on paper" about The Thing and Colossus

The Thing: Strength Level 6 (50-100 Tons), Intelligence 3 (Above Average), Speed 3 (25-29 MPH), Durability 6 (Can withstand most poisons, concussions, and temperature extremes), Fighting Skills 5 out of 7

Colossus: Strength Level 7 (100+ Tons), Intelligence 3, Speed 4 (Up to 40-75 mph), Durability 6, Fighting Skills 7 out of 7

Those are the "official" Marvel ratings for both characters. On paper I think Colossus owns

#34 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

Super-Buster says:

"@Vance: The heart of a fighter counts for more than you think, it means that Thing is a lot more motivated than Colossus is to fight and it has been proven (even in standard work environments) that if a person is more motivated to do their job (whether its playing football or beating the snot out of somebody) that they do their job better. As far as skill goes, the simple fact of Thing's experience means he knows a thing or two that Colossus doesn't. Thing doesn't usually show his skill because he is usually put against people that he doesn't need much skill to take down and it makes sense to just rely on his power. However, when Thing faces threats that are at least as large as he is (like during WWH) he shows his skill, (landing several successful blows and giving a better showing than any other super-strength types.) These guys were given strength on par with their durability, I think they would be able to hurt each other."

The heart of the fighter doesn't mean anything.These characters only have heart based on what the writer wants for them.For Instance Captain America has alot of heart and he used that to knock the Hulk down.Knowing what you know about Captain America..having heart doesn't give you the power to knock down someone of Hulk's calibur.There is a point where heart becomes bad writing.I don't know why people keep citing WWH to defend the skill of the Thing..he can't beat the Hulk just like Colossus can't.How long he lasted against him doesn't matter.If the Thing doesn't show his skill because of the level of opponents...then don't you think it would be safe to say that the people who use there skills often are more likely to be better fighter.Art is a skill for me, but if I don't draw for a while the level of skill drops.I think it's the same with any type of skill.

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#35 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not saying that heart alone gives you the power to overcome such enemies as the Hulk and such...

Vance Astro says:

"There is a point where heart becomes bad writing."

... but even you seem to admit that up to the point at which heart becomes bad writing that it does play a part in fights.Besides, I'm didn't say that Thing has more heart than Colossus and therefore he wins, I said that Thing has the heart of a fighter which means that he is more motivated to fight and is therefore going to fight harder and better.

Vance Astro says:

"I don't know why people keep citing WWH to defend the skill of the Thing..he can't beat the Hulk just like Colossus can't"

I don't know why you keep saying this, I don't see the logic. It is indeed possible to show skill in losing matches, the spartans eventually lost in the battle of Thermopolae , as did many other races that stood in the path of the Persian empire, does that mean that everyone that the Persian empire has ever fought has equal skill, or that anyone the empire fought could match the skill of the Spartans? If two people face the same enemy, regardless of whether they win or lose, the one who does better against that enemy obviously can fight better than the one who didn't.

Vance Astro says:

"If the Thing doesn't show his skill because of the level of opponents...then don't you think it would be safe to say that the people who use there skills often are more likely to be better fighter.Art is a skill for me, but if I don't draw for a while the level of skill drops.I think it's the same with any type of skill."

Thing doesn't fight many enemies where he has to show his skill, but he fights the Hulk on a semi-regular basis, and sometimes all it takes are constant refresher courses to keep your skill level. Also, in the fight against WWH he showed that he retained his skill, at least more-so than the other strength-type combatants.

#36 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

@ SuperBuster

1.What makes you think that teh Thing has any more will to fight then Colossus.When has Grimm shown this will.I would think the guy who was oppressed in his communist country and is of a race that is mostly treated pooly in America (mutants) would have more will to fight (Colossus).

2.I don't know why you keep bringing up Grimm's skill.What in it proves that he has and advantage over Colossus.What has he done skill wise that Colossus can't? Who gives a damn about the Spartans,there skill doesn't mean anything either.A loss is a loss no matter how you lose.If Colossus had used skill...what good would it have done him? Most likely just as good as it did The Thing.

3.The fight against Hulk didn't show anything on the skill level of most class 100 fighters.Colossus has recieved training in the Danger Room by Xavier and has also recieved additonal training from Wolverine and Cyclops.Tell me where it says Ben Grimm has recieved training of this calibur.From what I know he did some boxing and wrestling in honed a few skills but nothing major.

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#37 Posted by Ball Buster (2041 posts) - - Show Bio

Old blue eyes wins.

#38 Posted by POHOCOM (807 posts) - - Show Bio

Vance Astro says:

"@ SuperBuster1.What makes you think that teh Thing has any more will to fight then Colossus.When has Grimm shown this will.I would think the guy who was oppressed in his communist country and is of a race that is mostly treated pooly in America (mutants) would have more will to fight (Colossus).2.I don't know why you keep bringing up Grimm's skill.What in it proves that he has and advantage over Colossus.What has he done skill wise that Colossus can't? Who gives a damn about the Spartans,there skill doesn't mean anything either.A loss is a loss no matter how you lose.If Colossus had used skill...what good would it have done him? Most likely just as good as it did The Thing.3.The fight against Hulk didn't show anything on the skill level of most class 100 fighters.Colossus has recieved training in the Danger Room by Xavier and has also recieved additonal training from Wolverine and Cyclops.Tell me where it says Ben Grimm has recieved training of this calibur.From what I know he did some boxing and wrestling in honed a few skills but nothing major."

Colossus' strength level was originally listed as 70 tons, however this is when he was a teen X-Man. A full grown man now, it is conceivable that he is now at 100 tons. I'm not aware of an upgrade of Thing's strength from 85 tons. Thing has shown his fighting heart numerous times. Look at his fight with Champion of the Universe. Champion, who had fought tens of thousands of opponents (including Colossus) was so impressed by the Thing that he spared the Earth even though Ben lost! As for fighting ability, it's no contest. Who trains a person doesn't tell U how good a fighter a person is at all. All the sources I've seen indicate that Ben is a highly experienced and skilled fighter. No source have I found indicates that Colossus is better. In fact some sources don't indicate fighting ability for Colossus at all. Skill's not everything, which is why Thing almost always loses to Hulk. But Colossus is no Hulk.

#39 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

POHOCOM says:

"Vance Astro says:
"@ SuperBuster 1.What makes you think that teh Thing has any more will to fight then Colossus.When has Grimm shown this will.I would think the guy who was oppressed in his communist country and is of a race that is mostly treated pooly in America (mutants) would have more will to fight (Colossus). 2.I don't know why you keep bringing up Grimm's skill.What in it proves that he has and advantage over Colossus.What has he done skill wise that Colossus can't? Who gives a damn about the Spartans,there skill doesn't mean anything either.A loss is a loss no matter how you lose.If Colossus had used skill...what good would it have done him? Most likely just as good as it did The Thing. 3.The fight against Hulk didn't show anything on the skill level of most class 100 fighters.Colossus has recieved training in the Danger Room by Xavier and has also recieved additonal training from Wolverine and Cyclops.Tell me where it says Ben Grimm has recieved training of this calibur.From what I know he did some boxing and wrestling in honed a few skills but nothing major."
Colossus' strength level was originally listed as 70 tons, however this is when he was a teen X-Man. A full grown man now, it is conceivable that he is now at 100 tons. I'm not aware of an upgrade of Thing's strength from 85 tons. Thing has shown his fighting heart numerous times. Look at his fight with Champion of the Universe. Champion, who had fought tens of thousands of opponents (including Colossus) was so impressed by the Thing that he spared the Earth even though Ben lost! As for fighting ability, it's no contest. Who trains a person doesn't tell U how good a fighter a person is at all. All the sources I've seen indicate that Ben is a highly experienced and skilled fighter. No source have I found indicates that Colossus is better. In fact some sources don't indicate fighting ability for Colossus at all. Skill's not everything, which is why Thing almost always loses to Hulk. But Colossus is no Hulk. "

The Thing was at class 90 during Civil War.Iron Man said so him self.The Thing showing heart against the Champion is one of those bad writing issues like Cap knocking Hulk down...but Ben lost and She-Hulk who doesn't show the same heart beat the Champion.Who trains a person does tell how good of a fighter.All sources i've seen including comics the main source shows Ben has skill in Boxing, and Wrestling.Show me a source that doesn't say anything about Colossus' fighting skill...I don't think you can do it.Colossus doesn't have to be the Hulk to beat The Thing.I'm not even saying he wins..I'm saying this is a draw.

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#40 Posted by POHOCOM (807 posts) - - Show Bio

Vance Astro says:

"POHOCOM says:
"Vance Astro says:
"@ SuperBuster 1.What makes you think that teh Thing has any more will to fight then Colossus.When has Grimm shown this will.I would think the guy who was oppressed in his communist country and is of a race that is mostly treated pooly in America (mutants) would have more will to fight (Colossus). 2.I don't know why you keep bringing up Grimm's skill.What in it proves that he has and advantage over Colossus.What has he done skill wise that Colossus can't? Who gives a damn about the Spartans,there skill doesn't mean anything either.A loss is a loss no matter how you lose.If Colossus had used skill...what good would it have done him? Most likely just as good as it did The Thing. 3.The fight against Hulk didn't show anything on the skill level of most class 100 fighters.Colossus has recieved training in the Danger Room by Xavier and has also recieved additonal training from Wolverine and Cyclops.Tell me where it says Ben Grimm has recieved training of this calibur.From what I know he did some boxing and wrestling in honed a few skills but nothing major."
Colossus' strength level was originally listed as 70 tons, however this is when he was a teen X-Man. A full grown man now, it is conceivable that he is now at 100 tons. I'm not aware of an upgrade of Thing's strength from 85 tons. Thing has shown his fighting heart numerous times. Look at his fight with Champion of the Universe. Champion, who had fought tens of thousands of opponents (including Colossus) was so impressed by the Thing that he spared the Earth even though Ben lost! As for fighting ability, it's no contest. Who trains a person doesn't tell U how good a fighter a person is at all. All the sources I've seen indicate that Ben is a highly experienced and skilled fighter. No source have I found indicates that Colossus is better. In fact some sources don't indicate fighting ability for Colossus at all. Skill's not everything, which is why Thing almost always loses to Hulk. But Colossus is no Hulk. "

The Thing was at class 90 during Civil War.Iron Man said so him self.The Thing showing heart against the Champion is one of those bad writing issues like Cap knocking Hulk down...but Ben lost and She-Hulk who doesn't show the same heart beat the Champion.Who trains a person does tell how good of a fighter.All sources i've seen including comics the main source shows Ben has skill in Boxing, and Wrestling.Show me a source that doesn't say anything about Colossus' fighting skill...I don't think you can do it.Colossus doesn't have to be the Hulk to beat The Thing.I'm not even saying he wins..I'm saying this is a draw."

Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe mentions the Things fighting ability but doesn't mention that Colossus has any real skill in that area. Also, never forget that Captain America has "trained" several Avenger team mates. Some like Hawkeye became are decent fighters, but some are not because it's not their thing. The same is true with the Legion of Superheros. Karate Kid is the fight instructor for the team but some Legionaires are just average fighters at best. I can possibly see a draw as well if they decide to call it off before someone's stamina gives out. I give the Thing only a slight edge.

#41 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

You don't understand though POHOCOM.Alot of the people who trained in h2h with Cap where just doing it so they could have a little extra something in battle guys like Hawkeye especially now have nothing but thier martial arts to keep them alive.Even if we were to agree that the Thing is a better fighter..I still don't see what either can do to hurt each other and I have been asking that question since the beginning.How much physical force does it take for either to be immobilzied.

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#42 Posted by POHOCOM (807 posts) - - Show Bio

Vance Astro says:

"You don't understand though POHOCOM.Alot of the people who trained in h2h with Cap where just doing it so they could have a little extra something in battle guys like Hawkeye especially now have nothing but thier martial arts to keep them alive.Even if we were to agree that the Thing is a better fighter..I still don't see what either can do to hurt each other and I have been asking that question since the beginning.How much physical force does it take for either to be immobilzied."

That's a good question. Both men have been TKO'd more than a few times. I don't know if I can think of anyone under class 100 strength level to do it though.

#43 Posted by Vance Astro (91230 posts) - - Show Bio

POHOCOM says:

"Vance Astro says:
"You don't understand though POHOCOM.Alot of the people who trained in h2h with Cap where just doing it so they could have a little extra something in battle guys like Hawkeye especially now have nothing but thier martial arts to keep them alive.Even if we were to agree that the Thing is a better fighter..I still don't see what either can do to hurt each other and I have been asking that question since the beginning.How much physical force does it take for either to be immobilzied."
That's a good question. Both men have been TKO'd more than a few times. I don't know if I can think of anyone under class 100 strength level to do it though."

That's exactly why I called it a draw.

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#44 Posted by box turtle (1258 posts) - - Show Bio

Really close fight, could go either way, but Thing might just be a tad bit stronger.

#45 Posted by capall (8278 posts) - - Show Bio

as far as power set goes i believe they both got increased over the time, thing has been around for longer and more durable 
colossus does have better training facility, but i go with thing due to his will, the man never quits or gives up
#46 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio
@capall said:
" but i go with thing due to his will, the man never quits or gives up "
Colossus probably has more willpower than most Marvel characters, including Thing. He left his family to do what was right, and join the X-Men. He lost his sister, and his brother, but kept fighting. He lost his parents, but he didn't give up. He sacrificed himself to save mutantkind from the Legacy Virus. Hell, he came back from the dead, and rejoined the X-Men 5 minutes after they freed him. He didn't quit when the love of his life got sent on a one-way trip into deep space on a huge bullet. Colossus has immense willpower.
#47 Posted by capall (8278 posts) - - Show Bio
@Korg:
that is true, however i was referring to will during a fight not what just happens generally in life itself, i personally haven't notice that about colossus in battle fields, also one thing for sure is that the thing is so emotional and strong willed he doesn't even care who he fights and is always fearless
#48 Posted by JThree47693 (2538 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmm...I think Colossus could win here.
#49 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (7906 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure this has already been done. Regardless, Colossus takes this 8/10.
#50 Posted by glforthewin (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

Colossus would break Thing's body but not his spirit cause not even an Elder of the universe could do that