Colossus (616) vs. Greed (Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood)

The Rules:

1. Prep: 7 hours
2. Morals: In character
3. Location: Keystone City (DCU)
4. No BFR.
5. Greed's anime and manga feats are valid.

Who wins and why?

Greed

Why

has colossus ever break someone who is more durable than diamond?

Colossus slaughter stomps.

@god_spawn@deranged_midget Another lock for you guys.

@tabascosauce: Colossus can go toe to toe against the Hulk.

yea and get knocked out whats your point?

Greed can't harden his shield and heal at the same time & he's not shrugging off Colossus punches. I'm thinking mismatch. :\

The mutant wins

@tabascosauce: The point is that he can fight a 100 ton class character and take his punches.

bump

While Greed is very impressive he's not actually as strong as Colossus he just has high durability

bump

I'd personally go with Greed here.

He's practically invulnerable to physical damage whilst Colossus isn't. Colossus can take strong hits but Ling (whose mind and abilities Greed has access to) has been shown to be an excellent tactician and would understand how to get around this.

Colossus has been shown to take large scale hits but Greed wouldn't go for these: he'd use his Ultimate Shield, Superior Speed and Sharp as Diamond claws to tear Colossus to pieces.

Colossus due to superior strength, or stalemate. If Ling keeps himself in his "whatever was called" Diamond-like state, they probably won't be hurting each other.

Colossus every time. Greed just has him in skill and speed and that is it. Colossus is far more durable and vastly stronger and isn't a complete noob when it comes to fighting, either.

bump

Wtf? How does diamond tear through Colossus' metal skin!!!? I'm assuming you never took a science class in high school. Diamonds are the hardest natural-occurring minerals, not the toughest substance. Any metal, even iron, would shatter diamonds into a million pieces. Colossus' is more durable than Greed is and will break him in half. It would be like taking a sledgehammer to a diamond ring. All you're going to get is diamond dust.

Wrong, why do you think the best drills are diamond tipped and not "insert metal here"? Diamond is harder than any other bulk material, and is able to tear through any metal with ease

@rukelnikovftw: Good thing Colossus isn't just regular metal.

@rukelnikovftw:

Wrong, why do you think the best drills are diamond tipped and not "insert metal here"? Diamond is harder than any other bulk material, and is able to tear through any metal with ease.

The reason why drills are diamond-tipped is because diamonds are the hardestnaturally occurring mineral on the Earth.

Diamonds are also non-reactive for the most part, until you hit temperatures of 800 degrees Celsius. Something that wouldn't occur while digging around in the dirt.

What does this mean? This means diamonds can't be cut, unless with other diamonds, or with another object with equal or greater hardness.

Non reactive means they won't react with any other molecule to create a reaction, so the diamond won't deteriorate from erosion, etc.

However, hardness does not equal toughness. Anyone who has a rudimentary knowledge of science would know this.

So what is my point? Well:

1. You're wrong.

2. Things like steel are not minerals, but metals. Steel is an iron molecule which has been bonded with carbon atoms in order to increase its hardness and strength.

What does that mean? It means that a steel sledgehammer would shatter a diamond. Diamonds are hard, not strong or tough.

They are hard because the carbon atoms have been compressed together under extreme pressure. But this does not equate to toughness or strength.

So please take the time to educate yourself before you call me out on being wrong. It makes you sound very stupid.

The only reason Wrath was kicking the sh** out of Greed is because he lolblitzed him. Attacked too fast so that he couldn't heal all the way and put his shield up.

Colossus is faaaaar stronger. And he might outlast Greed.

@omgomgwtfwtf

The reason why drills are diamond-tipped is because diamonds are the hardestnaturally occurring mineral on the Earth.

I said the same thing.

Diamonds are also non-reactive for the most part, until you hit temperatures of 800 degrees Celsius. Something that wouldn't occur while digging around in the dirt.

What does this mean? This means diamonds can't be cut, unless with other diamonds, or with another object with equal or greater hardness.

Non reactive means they won't react with any other molecule to create a reaction, so the diamond won't deteriorate from erosion, etc.

right... i never said the opposite.

However, hardness does not equal toughness. Anyone who has a rudimentary knowledge of science would know this.

You know what? I happen to know this! and again... I didn't say the opposite! (btw im a mathematician, and have taken a couple physics courses too, i hate chemistry though)

So what is my point? Well:

1. You're wrong.

Where?

2. Things like steel are not minerals, but metals. Steel is an iron molecule which has been bonded with carbon atoms in order to increase its hardness and strength.

What does that mean? It means that a steel sledgehammer would shatter a diamond. Diamonds are hard, not strong or tough.

Of course it would shatter diamond, that doesn't mean a diamond blade wouldn't tear said steel like butter, here have a vid as proof:

They are hard because the carbon atoms have been compressed together under extreme pressure. But this does not equate to toughness or strength.

You are the only one who mentioned toughness or strength, i didn't.

So please take the time to educate yourself before you call me out on being wrong. It makes you sound very stupid.

You may have reading comprehension problems pal.

Oh i didn't know that, i thought he was steel, well then i guess we can't really know if greed can damage him... unless there is some evidence of diamonds shattering when trying to cut colossus or the opposite... now that i think of this, has emma ever fought colossus physically? (i don't read x-men so i really don't know)

Without alchemy colossus cannot win, possible stalemate though.

@rukelnikovftw: He isn't regular steel. He's taken too much damage from super strong characters when they could have crumpled him like paper since said characters can casually shred steel like tissue paper. It took WWH or the Nimrods adapting to in the hundreds of tons area to bend him apart. As far as sharp objects go, he's completely bulletproof, and even Wolverine has to put in some effort to cut him. The only sharp objects I know of piercing him, aside from a special vibranium knife, are Wolverine's claws, and Riptide's projectiles, which are made of an unknown substance he secrets from his skin that crystallizes. And since he is spinning on a whirlwind, they get launched off. These pierced Colossus when I don't think he was as durable or strong now, but they didn't do much damage since he just ended up snapping Riptide's neck.

As for fighting Emma, no they haven't. But the same goes for Emma. She isn't a regular diamond. She's tanked blasts from Cyclops, hits from WWH, hits from an extremely amped Sebastian Shaw, and Genosha collapsing on her. She is bulletproof, and she blocked an attack from Daken, whose claws can slice through steel, and chipped a piece off of them. The only times she has been broken was when she was attacked in her weakspot by a diamond bullet, and another when the Dreaming Celestial blasted her, and her arm fell off. Just prior to that, she had already tanked one blast.

So these characters are blocking and soaking hits from characters than can cut or rend through steel like we can a paper towel. If Colossus were just regular steel, he would be dead.

@rukelnikovftw:

So you're basically saying that you're not disagreeing my points, but still want to argue against me? For a mathematician, I fail to see any form of logic.

You post a video that has absolutely no relevance to this thread. Greed can't replicate what the diamond saw did in the video because he can't move his hands that quick or in a manner necessary to rend through steel, nor are his diamonds hands that sharp to begin with. Colossus is also solid steel as opposed to a hollow tube that is at best maybe a few centimeters thick. Lastly, the diamond saw is cutting industrial level steel piping (I'm assuming) and that is no way comparable to military grade steel (i.e. carbon steel). Furthermore, Colossus has shown durability surpassing that of average steel (far surpassing actually).

So bravo on posting information that is completely irrelevant to this debate.

As for your other point, you're basically trying to convey to me that your initial post was also a complete waste of time as well. You're telling me that diamonds are hard, when the hardness of a diamond has absolute zero relevance to this thread. Like I mentioned before hardness =/= toughness.

So thank you for wasting my time with your stupidity. Now I can go stab myself in the eye over reading something so mind boggling dumb.

I'm thinking Colossus wins here. Sure Greed is awesome, but I'm not holding any bias here.

@omgomgwtfwtf: My original post was to support that greed can damage colossus, thickness of the item in question has nothing to do with another substance's ability to pierce/damage it, only what it is made from matters (of course something thicker would require more time/energy to be fully cut or torn). The video was not irrelevant since you said diamond cant cut steel.

Anyways the point is moot since i didn't know colossus is a kind of special steel and not just regular steel.

Damn.....As much as I love Greed, he get's absolutely slaughtered by Colossus.

I say stalemate, while greed have durability and speed, he does not have strenght to beat colossus

@rukelnikovftw:

You're basically assuming that his claws would allow him to cut through Colossus like a hot knife through butter, when nothing you have posted shown this.

The video is irrelevant because of the reasons I stated already. You basically showed me a diamond saw designed specifically to cut through things, I could equally show you an iron sledgehammer shattering diamonds into dust. What is the difference between the two? Well, Greed's hands aren't diamonds saws, nor are they designed to do what a saw does. Colossus, on the other hand, is a 100 tonner plus who hits much harder than a person with a sledgehammer and is composed of a substance far stronger than ordinary steel.

Your initial point failed at validating anything, since I never said that diamonds couldn't cut metals. I even stated that diamonds can't be cut, unless with other diamonds, due to their unique structure. However, versus crushing forces, their unique structure's rigidity doesn't help them absorb impact forces as great (hence why diamonds are reserved for cutting things, as opposed to smashing things). Greed has never shown the capacity to cut through steel, let alone Colossus' unique skin (which even Wolverine has to exert effort to cut, despite already having claws that can cut through anything). Greed has the ultimate shield, not the ultimate spear.

There is also significantly differences amount certain types of steel. For one, carbon steel, is steel which has been forcefully bonded with more carbon atoms to increase its toughness, and is many time more durable than surgical steel, which was designed for its sharpness, as opposed to its durability. Stainless steel was designed to be non-reactive, while industrial steel was created for the same purpose. So what is my point? There is a difference between the substances because they are inherently different. Steel is actually not a substance on the periodic table because its an iron molecule that has carbon added to it. The more carbon you add, the more tougher it becomes. So steel can vary widely in its ability to withstand harm, depending on its composition and purity.

Colossus. Its about damn time Peter won a match on this site. CIN.

Stalemate or Greed. Colossus doesn't have the speed or skill to do the repeated amount of damage he'd need to do to wear down Greed's stone, especially if Ling takes charge. It's questionable as to whether Greed can hurt Colossus, though. Piotr can definitely be vulnerable to piercing damage, but whether or not Greed is able to do that is questionable.

Colossus murderstomps Greed. Greed is fast, but he's nowhere above Colossus's reaction time. Plus, Greed has no way of harming someone who can tank blows from people like the Hulk, or even stand toe to toe with the Hulk for any period of time.

I love FMA, but Greed doesn't stand a chance here.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

It could go either way

@omgomgwtfwtf:

You're basically assuming that his claws would allow him to cut through Colossus like a hot knife through butter, when nothing you have posted shown this.

As I already stated, I didn't know Colossus wasn't regular steel when I made my post.

The video is irrelevant because of the reasons I stated already. You basically showed me a diamond saw designed specifically to cut through things, I could equally show you an iron sledgehammer shattering diamonds into dust. What is the difference between the two? Well, Greed's hands aren't diamonds saws, nor are they designed to do what a saw does. Colossus, on the other hand, is a 100 tonner plus who hits much harder than a person with a sledgehammer and is composed of a substance far stronger than ordinary steel.

You keep saying that a sledgehammer would turn a diamond into dust like if I was denying that, plz read, OF COURSE A HAMMER WOULD SMASH A DIAMOND, I would never say the opposite. Now, even when Greed's hands are not saws, they end in claws, which are designed to tear things. Knowing Colossus is not regular steel, as I said in my last post, makes this point moot, since we would need a case of someone trying to cut colossus with a diamond to know if he can or can't be cut by one. And, btw, your last sentence in that paragraph is an argument against yourself, you say Colossus "is composed of a substance far stronger than ordinary steel" when we are not discussing strength, but hardness, and it was you who told me to take science classes to learn the difference ;)

Your initial point failed at validating anything, since I never said that diamonds couldn't cut metals. I even stated that diamonds can't be cut, unless with other diamonds, due to their unique structure. However, versus crushing forces, their unique structure's rigidity doesn't help them absorb impact forces as great (hence why diamonds are reserved for cutting things, as opposed to smashing things). Greed has never shown the capacity to cut through steel, let alone Colossus' unique skin (which even Wolverine has to exert effort to cut, despite already having claws that can cut through anything). Greed has the ultimate shield, not the ultimate spear.

My initial post was an answer to this: "Wtf? How does diamond tear through Colossus' metal skin!!!?"

There is also significantly differences amount certain types of steel. For one, carbon steel, is steel which has been forcefully bonded with more carbon atoms to increase its toughness, and is many time more durable than surgical steel, which was designed for its sharpness, as opposed to its durability. Stainless steel was designed to be non-reactive, while industrial steel was created for the same purpose. So what is my point? There is a difference between the substances because they are inherently different. Steel is actually not a substance on the periodic table because its an iron molecule that has carbon added to it. The more carbon you add, the more tougher it becomes. So steel can vary widely in its ability to withstand harm, depending on its composition and purity.

No matter the type of steel (or metal), diamonds can still scratch and cut it, the few substances harder than diamonds (scratch resistance-wise) do not include metals among them.

Having said this, this whole argument is not only non-constructive to the thread, but also (and tbh more important to me) repetitive, so im done with this discussion. Later

Stalemate, Greed isn't putting a single scratch on Piotr and doesn't even come close to having what it takes to fight him head to head. Colossus however doesn't have the speed to actually land a hit on Ling and while he's skilled, Ling is a better fighter regardless. Even if that Ultimate Shield isn't as durable as Colossus's skin, it is more than durable enough to take several hits and as smart as Ling is he'll stay away from Piotr after he gets an idea of just how strong his punches are. After that it's a stalemate...but if anyone is going to win, it would be Colossus due to the fact that he can actually kill Greed.

Didn't in the maga it state that Greeds skin was unbreakable? That would carry over into here wouldn't it? And plus the fact that he is damn near immortal and can constantly heal. I see nothing more than a stalemate because the only real way to hurt Greed is if you're a alchemist or, Father which colossus is neither. But Greed also won't be able to penetrate the others metal skin. So what happens when a unstoppable force meets a immovable object?

@rukelnikovftw:

My initial post was an answer to this: "Wtf? How does diamond tear through Colossus' metal skin!!!?" No matter the type of steel (or metal), diamonds can still scratch and cut it, the few substances harder than diamonds (scratch resistance-wise) do not include metals among them.

Your entire point fails to even address my initial response because Greed's claws aren't going to tear through Colossus' skin. You have never once proven that Greed was capable of such a feat. Stick some diamond knives on your fingers and try and cut a piece of steel in half, I can guarantee the most you would ever accomplish is scratch it, let alone tear it apart. Greed has no superhuman strength, he has claws, which aren't as sharp as a saw, or move at the speed of which a saw operates.

So, yes, if all Greed wanted to accomplish was to ruin the nice polish and shine Colossus has on his skin, then mission accomplished. But other than some superficial scratches, he's not doing jack shit.

As for metals being unable to scratch diamonds, just take a look at Rhenium Diboride.

And, btw, your last sentence in that paragraph is an argument against yourself, you say Colossus "is composed of a substance far stronger than ordinary steel" when we are not discussing strength, but hardness, and it was you who told me to take science classes to learn the difference ;)

And this is why I don't even bother sometimes. Please take a remedial course in physics or read up on hardness, toughness, and strength.

Hardness is a material's resistance to being deformed, toughness is the amount of deformation an object can take before being permanently altered, and strength is the amount of stress a material can take before breaking.

Steel is both tough and strong, while diamonds are just hard. Diamonds can't bend without shattering and has a toughness rating lower than that of Quartz.

The harder a material is, the more brittle it becomes, and the easier it is to break it since its structure cannot deform (i.e. bend) easily.

What we were 'discussing' is how you incorrectly associated hardness with being durable, when they are not related. Diamonds are harder than steel because they are non-reactive and very difficult to scratch points I made in my first response to you). Those reasons are basically it, the hardness scale doesn't represent strength or toughness.

To put it into perspective, glass and ceramic would be considered harder than ordinary steel, but they are prone to cracks and breakage. (Ceramic is the stuff they use to make fancy eating ware.)

So please just stop with your failed attempt at proving me wrong. All it goes to show is that you have absolutely no knowledge of rudimentary science.

@omgomgwtfwtf:

As for metals being unable to scratch diamonds, just take a look at Rhenium Diboride.

And, btw, your last sentence in that paragraph is an argument against yourself, you say Colossus "is composed of a substance far stronger than ordinary steel" when we are not discussing strength, but hardness, and it was you who told me to take science classes to learn the difference ;)

I know what im talking about, Rhenium Diboride is only harder than diamond on one of the faces (i think the <100> one), and thus can scratch a diamond if properly positioned, overall and peak hardness is still greater in the diamonds. Only Graphene, Ultrahard Fullerite and Agregated Diamond Nanorods are harden than diamond as a whole (lonsdaleite as well as Rhenium Diboride are only harder in certain faces)

I'm really fed up with this nonsense talk, if you felt attacked well I'm sorry, but your whole post seems like you made an imaginary post in your mind, i never said Greed had super strenght, i never said greed would beat colossus, i was never really that much interested in this fight to begin with, my only statement was "Diamonds can scratch metal", it may be irrelevant to the thread, i don't really care, nor do i care for your response, so don't expect another one from me.

Thank you for actually admitting that your response to me was uncalled for and unnecessary.

I can understand your efforts to get your point across, but what I can't understand, is your constant insults.

Seriously, are you not mature enough to be able to debate with out throwing five or six insults at your opponent in every sentence?

Sorry for my rant, I'm just puzzled as to why someone would unnecessarily insult someone for being misinformed, and instead not try to correct him in a mature manner.

As I look back at his first few posts, I don't see anything RukelNikovFTW has done to incite such hatred, if you can give me a reason, then please do so.

Eh, I'm done, I've think gotten my point across. You have a nice debate, sir.

@the_last_kryptonian:

It's the fact that he responded to me for no other reason then to say that "diamonds can cut steel". If you read the last response he made, he basically admits that he responded to me for absolutely no reason other than to say that. I'm a little annoyed that someone would bother responding to me after 3 months just to say something totally irrelevant to this thread.

As for why I'm so irate, try talking to stupid people all day and you will understand.

Why is everyone voting for Colossus? The only thing Colossus has in his advantage is his strenght, and even that wouldn't do shit against Greed. Greed is far more durable. He isn't made of diamond, as many of you guys think. He can rearrange the carbon in his body to form any substance made of carbon atoms he wants. This also counts for the extremely durable Fullerene. It's stronger then diamond. And if that doesn't work there is also something called Aggregated Diamond Nanorods, which is the hardest material known today. Aside from that, Greed way and way faster, able to stand his own against Wrath, who was a bullet-dodger with ease. Ling is an excellent tactician, knowing Wrath's blind-spot within a few seconds. And even if Colossus manages to strike blow against Greed, there is always Greed healing factor and with that, the battle starts over again, with the only difference that Colossus has already taken hits from Greed. This would either and in a stalemate, or a win for Greed. Colossus just has no chance of beating Greed.

@jonathancarlton: huh? col can barely fight against that hulk and even then that hulk holds back a lot.

when did I ”imply” anything about greed doing better?