Cloud VS Sora (Rematch)

No prep 
Both have all skills and powers Mastered to the best 
Both know eachothers skills 
To the death  
both bloodlusted 
Both have all there weapons 
Fight takes place in 
the Soul society

Sora

Cloud hes cooler and has a big sword

" Cloud hes cooler and has a big sword "

"Cloud hes cooler and has a big sword "

Does Sora get final form?

" No prep 
Both have all skills and powers Mastered to the best 

mann clouds done beaten Sephiroth before but when i try to beat him with sora its so much harder lol...im going with Cloud

Cloud should win. If he has his best gear (Ultimate Sword) and the Master Summon Materia (allows for you summon any summon), Master Magic Materia (All Magic spells can be used), and Master command Materia (all commands) along woth limit breaks makes Cloud not only better, but more versatile as well.

Cloud win this.

He has better durability and more fire power. Especially in his fight against Bahamut SIN.

However, I see Sora being faster.

Cloud. Sora couldn't beat Sephiroth so he asked Cloud to fight him in KH2

Actually backing Cloud this fight.

Sora

Cloud

Cloud due to his summons

I'm going with Cloud here. If he gets every single power and equipment Fully upgraded to the Max with all the materia... I think he takes this. I could be wrong. @Jmarshmallow: Wat do u think?

1). How on earth is Cloud going to even touch Sora?

2). Does he have any counter for Time Manipulation?

3). Can Cloud even dish out an attack strong enough to put down Sora?

Jmarshmallow

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Kingdom Hearts, wasn't Sephiroth portrayed as incomparably stronger than Sora? And did Cloud not defeat Sephiroth? So shouldn't Cloud also be well above Sora's level?

1) he is as fast by feats. Most of your argument for Sora speed is this flimsy notion of dodging what you perceive as lightspeed lasers, when all actuality we have no speed facts to confirm how fast those "Energy Beams" were.

After all Tidus (From FFX) was fully able to dodge lightning in the fog. Lightning cannot be aimed dodge at all do to its erratic pattern and the fact their is fogginess everywhere. So is Tidus Speed of lightning? No.

2) Yes. Cloud also has Stop, Haste, and Slow spells via the Master Magic Materia.

3) Any Spell Sora has Cloud has and better. Add to this Cloud has access to Master Summon materia which grants him every summon spell.

Ifirit

And the rest.

Also all three Bahumats including Zero.

Easy state of Texas busting attack. Good Game.

The real question is Sora can harm Cloud. He has tanked a Planet wrecking Super Nova.

As seen Sephiroth transports everyone including Cloud to a copy of the solar system, and then a comet destroys planets on its way to the sun, including Pluto by name, and causes the sun to go nova. Team is hit and back to normal reality. Cloud tanks it.

So if you want to use silly game logic of dodging lasers as proof he is MTFL, then Cloud should use silly logic to show he can tank solar system busting Super Nova as this cut scene shows.

Anything Sora can do, Cloud has done better.

That nonsense is non canon to the FF7 Canon games and movie.

Cloud via Knigts of the Round Summon.

Jmarshmallow

@jmarshmallow: Huh... I guess if we take everything literally, then yes. Sora is FTL, Tidus is faster than Lightning, and Cloud can tank Solar System busting attacks.

Huh..... i have nothing left as most of my argument was base on Hyperbole logic rather than Literal logic.

Well if we take things literal instead of inconsistent/hyperbole feats, then Team Dante here gets wrecked hard.

Also Sqaure themselves stated Kingdom Hearts canon is not aligned with FF7 strict canon. That should be noted.

Also here is a list of the Abilities Cloud has for Master Materia.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Materia

Also if we take things literally like you are, then Cloud is also FTL. @viltrumite reminded me of some feats of dodging lasers.

both cases if Clouds Dexitarity is high enough by the mid game, he actively side steps and dodges these lasers after they are fired.

As seen. So as long this is peaked out Cloud with Dex, he can dodge Lasers all day like he can this 1st level boss Tail Laser.

In my opinion Sora's too inexperienced and, based on some of the arguments presented here, a glass cannon...at best. How powerful is he really? Most of the fights I remember winning was alongside Donald and Goofy. The keyblade is powerful however Sora is not. Sora's history of solo battles hasn't been the best. That and isn't he like 15? Physically he is still a kid after all. Inexperienced and untrained in combat unless we forget him getting defeated by Roxas (Who beat Riku as well didn't he?) with the "ultimate" weapon in his universe, the keyblade. Having a strong weapon doesn't make you strong. Sora's weakness is his reliance on the keyblade's unique power to damage the heartless, nobodies, open doors, etc. If I'm not mistaken the keyblade isn't a lethal weapon unless it's heartless or nobodies it's up against but I could be wrong on that one. Even if it could hurt others Sora's too inexperienced with it to do it himself. Dodging lasers doesn't make you a good fighter. You can run but that won't win the fight? He's physically still a 15 year old boy. His body has limits even if his weapon is powerful. Experience play a HUGE part.

Cloud is not only older but a trained soldier as well. I'm confident that means Cloud has proficiency with weapons in general and not specifically the Buster Sword (which is initial equipment so there are actually better weapons available at his disposal) I can easily argue Cloud's feats are either on par or superior to Zack Fair's physical feats since Cloud's actions could rival that of Soldier 1st class members such as Sephiroth. As far as physical strength, endurance and durability goes Cloud is likely superior. Even though him defeating Sephiroth is Advent Children is PIS since Sephiroth is clearly the superior swordsman. Despite that Cloud held his on until he ultimately got tired after fighting on the falling remains of the Shin-ra building. After that Sephiroth's, a trained soldier, experience and endurance were ultimately too much for Cloud, another trained soldier, causing him to rely on his limit break to win. Sephiroth wasn't really trying to defeat Cloud, he was likely playing with him. Cloud used his best abilities and Sephiroth just used his experience as a Soldier 1st class to toy with him. Sora surviving battles with Sephiroth is, once again, Sephiroth toying with his inferior opponents. Cloud vs Sora would likely go a similar way. Why?

Sora's experience is fighting the far inferior heartless which are, more or less, mindless grunts. As it stands Sora is good at crowd control not solo battles. Don't believe me? Who has Sora bested in a duel? Riku beat Sora with an inferior weapon to the keyblade in the first Kingdom Hearts (but that was the first game right?) and Roxas beat Sora when both could use the keyblade. Sora wins when he has a superior weapon against a foe who is weak against it AND the power of his teammates. Don't fool yourself, Sora is getting carried by the power of his team. When forced to face things alone he has crumbled time and time again in the past so I don't see how this would be any different. Cloud on the other hand has been able to defeat much deadlier foes with standard "non unique" weapons. Cannonly Cloud went through the events of Final Fantasy 7 and beat sephiroth with the Buster Sword...you know? The initial equipment in the game. If Cloud were a heartless then yeah Sora would win otherwise I don't see how Sora can pull off a win. The fact is Sora is physically inferior to Cloud, has less reach than Cloud (Buster Blade vs keyblade), inferior swordsmanship compared to Cloud, has less combat experience in general than Cloud, etc. and the list goes on.

Magic? Well Cloud has access to materia so pretty much EVERYTHING Sora has access to CLoud does as well ON TOP OF more spells, more summons and more skills. At best Sora has defeated the Ice Titan in Kingdom Hearts as a secret boss...well Cloud has bested Emerald Weapon, Ruby Weapon, etc. so he could take on the Ice Titan. Heck he took on a summon in Advent Children and defeated it with his Level 1 Limit Break Braver and killed it with his Level 3 Limit Break Climhazzard (fair I mention that his team weakened the beast). I doubt Sora could preform any of the feats Cloud has but I'm confident Cloud could perform Sora's feats WITHOUT relying on the power of the "ultimate weapon" in the Kingdom Hearts universe. All of Cloud's feats have been done with normal swords.

Sora has yet to display a feat to say he would have a chance of winning a fight against people, whom I believe are superior to him, in his own universe namely Riku, Roxas, etc. without the power of the keyblade. I would argue he can barely keep up even with the "ultimate" power of the keyblade when his rivals have inferior weapons. Inexperience? Check. When a feat is being able to block one of Sephiroth's basic multislash attacks (he could throw attacks like that out all day btw) doesn't mean Sora would win the fight. Defense alone doesn't win a fight as Sora would never get to attack and eventually get fatigued because he has the body of a 15 year old boy. Blocking that caliber of attacks would likely take a tole on Sora's immature body just as it fatigued a physically superior and trained soldier body (or it's equal) like Cloud. Cloud has better durability feats like surviving Sephiroth's Octaslash attack in Advent Children Complete along with a plummet to a building. Sora would not likely to be able to withstand a similar attack. He's a glass cannon...at best.

Implying "dodging lasers" allows an untrained 15 year old civilian to best a trained soldier in combat is a joke. By that logic Sephiroth would be moving at the same speed as Sora during their fight which he won with little effort considering Sephiroth's history of holding back in fights as his opponents go all out. Not like when Sephiroth's "beaten" he's breathing hard after the fight is over. Heck he fought Cloud RIGHT after his fight with Sora and if Sephiroth could keep up with Sora's "speed" then I guess Cloud has the "speed" as well because he could he kept up with Sephiroth who kept up with "laser dodging" Sora.

This is nowhere near a fair fight, this is a stomp.

@hedorah10:

Huh... I guess if we take everything literally, then yes.

As opposed to what, speculating? Of course, because that's definitely a preferable method of debating.

Sora is FTL,

*MFTL, you mean.

Tidus is faster than Lightning,

Yup.

and Cloud can tank Solar System busting attacks.

Planet busting attacks, let's not get carried away.

Huh..... i have nothing left as most of my argument was base on Hyperbole logic rather than Literal logic.

You're basing your argument on Hyperbole? That sounds super ineffective.

Well if we take things literal instead of inconsistent/hyperbole feats, then Team Dante here gets wrecked hard.

"Team Dante" isn't in this battle, so I'm really not sure if you have any idea what you're talking about.

Also Sqaure themselves stated Kingdom Hearts canon is not aligned with FF7 strict canon. That should be noted.

If you can show me this, then yes it will be most definitely noted.

Also here is a list of the Abilities Cloud has for Master Materia.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Materia

Good stuff. They still look about equal in the magic department.

Also if we take things literally like you are, then Cloud is also FTL. @viltrumite reminded me of some feats of dodging lasers.

both cases if Clouds Dexitarity is high enough by the mid game, he actively side steps and dodges these lasers after they are fired.

As seen. So as long this is peaked out Cloud with Dex, he can dodge Lasers all day like he can this 1st level boss Tail Laser.

Aim-dodging is in no way equivalent to perceiving and reacting to literally hundreds of lasers coming at him from every direction.

I don't see how that isn't self-explanatory really.

Jmarshmallow

@jmarshmallow said:

Because he can fight in par with Cloud and Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts (when they are weakest), dude.

So, Cloud and Sephiroth (with your logic) now are MFTL! Fantastic!

I'm waiting for your new excuse.

BTW, Cloud win this.

Cloud