I do not want any posts that are similar to "this will be a stomp" or "(insert name) should win" wait for the debate to end and keep an open mind you might be surprised
I do not want too much derailing of the thread (a little here and there is healthy for a thread and if its funny i may even encourage it but nothing serious)
want to be tagged for votes? thats cool you can post that in fact i encourage it so i can keep track of you yahoos
@lowlaville: Pretty much done wirh getting all the scans:
Diana, otherwise named Wonder woman by Hades, is the daughter of Zeus, a Demigod and one of the strongest heroes of the Justice League of America. She is strong enough to fight on par with many of the kryptonions while holding back on her full powers. This is someone you do not want to mess with. After the death of Ares, she is the new God of War.
Strength
- Diana can knock back the likes of Supergirl, Superman and Aquaman without much effort.
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Agility/Speed
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Fights with Cheetah on near even ground despite holding back. Cheetah is fast enough to simultaneously fight Flash, Superman and Cyborg alone.
Durability
Diana has no known weakness: confirmed by Batman. Tells Superman he has to be the one to stop her.
I don't know much about Adam warlorck, so this brief intro will have to do.
@lowlaville: Warlock is Marvels best Cosmic Character, in the sense that his back story and what he has done has been the best. He was created by the High Evolutionary and his power lvls are about as fickle as 14 year old girl :)
Strength/ Striking Feats
believe it or not Warlock has some insane striking feats.
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this is classic Drax there is no winner but Warlock is throwing him around
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here he is fighting Phalanx (which are made of Vibranium) and hes tearing through them. also shows he can put up a shield in combat. basically if he tags Wonder Woman, shes gonna feel it
Speed
i'll be the first to admit Wonder Woman has Warlock beat here but hes no slouch
he dodges surfers energy blast and near point blank range
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he was largely drained by Vulcan but still reacted fast enough to a speed blitz (this looks like Magus but in this run there were shown as equals) later Magus gets a pretty huge jump in power.
Durability
Warlock is not without his fair share of durability
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hes taken hops from Hercules, he lost because he chose to only use his physical skills and there are not many people who can beat Hercules using just physical stuff
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he takes several hits from Thanos clones. Strange comes in to even the odds but still he takes a hammering
Energy Manipulation
he channels magical energy as you already saw in the Vulcan scan
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Adam Warlock destroys some 4000 metric tons of matter with one of his AoE blasts
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he channels the energy of the terrigen bomb which had the capabilities of destroying this universe. he manipulated it. did not generate.
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recently hes been shown breaking out of Quasars constructs and beat him. Warlock has beaten Quasar once before and its entirely believable for him to beat Surfer as well. i think he one-shotted them because it was a sucker punch and neither were expecting it.
@serrure: Cool. Since I practically know very little of Marvel characters beside the mainstream heroes and villains.. I have a few questions I would like you to answer before I can continue with the debate.
How strong/fast is Drax, Vulcan, Magus and Quasar? How powerful are Quasar's constructs?
he channels the energy of the terrigen bomb which had the capabilities of destroying this universe. he manipulated it. did not generate.
This is useless for two reasons:
- WW has no energy based attacks - Warlock as you have said does not generate the said energy potential.
here he is fighting Phalanx (which are made of Vibranium) and hes tearing through them. also shows he can put up a shield in combat. basically if he tags Wonder Woman, shes gonna feel it
Shields? They are useless when facing wonder women. She breaks them day and night. Ask Hal. He'd know all about it.
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All I practically saw was Ultron pushing warlock around. Vibranium isn't as durable as you might think. At least, not as durable as Adamantium.
How strong/fast is Drax, Vulcan, Magus and Quasar? How powerful are Quasar's constructs?
Quasar has reacted in nano-seconds, i think Magus has also but thats iffy. Classic Drax was pretty slow (hes hulk speeds) and Vulcan is above Drax but below Quasar
This is useless for two reasons:
- WW has no energy based attacks
- Warlock as you have said does not generate the said energy potential.
not necessarily Wonder Woman possess a great deal of magical weapons and such. i just wanted to show that when it comes to magic and energy Warlock is one of the best
Shields? They are useless when facing wonder women. She breaks them day and night. Ask Hal. He'd know all about it.
these shields have tanked an exploding star before
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Warlocks shield protected them. Nu 52 Hal hasnt shown anything like that to my knowledge. im not saying Wonder Woman cant break them but she'll have to work for it
All I practically saw was Ultron pushing warlock around. Vibranium isn't as durable as you might think. At least, not as durable as Adamantium.
IIRC they were all made of Vibranium. and Vibranium absorbs energy. so the fact he was doing anything to them at all is a feat itself. Vibranium is the second most durable metal after Adamantium. its tanked some pretty impressive stuff.
hey im tagging an Adam Warlock expert (he pops in occasionally i think) cuz i think he'd like to see this @killemall, i assume you have no arguments with this @lowlaville.
@lowlaville Please tag me for voting! Looks Good! Also Adamantium is more tougher, but because of the properties in Vibranium that makes it absorb vibrations makes it harder to break than adamantium.
hey im tagging an Adam Warlock expert (he pops in occasionally i think) cuz i think he'd like to see this @killemall, i assume you have no arguments with this @lowlaville.
How strong/fast is Drax, Vulcan, Magus and Quasar? How powerful are Quasar's constructs?
Quasar has reacted in nano-seconds, i think Magus has also but thats iffy. Classic Drax was pretty slow (hes hulk speeds) and Vulcan is above Drax but below Quasar
This is useless for two reasons:
- WW has no energy based attacks
- Warlock as you have said does not generate the said energy potential.
not necessarily Wonder Woman possess a great deal of magical weapons and such. i just wanted to show that when it comes to magic and energy Warlock is one of the best
Shields? They are useless when facing wonder women. She breaks them day and night. Ask Hal. He'd know all about it.
these shields have tanked an exploding star before
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Warlocks shield protected them. Nu 52 Hal hasnt shown anything like that to my knowledge. im not saying Wonder Woman cant break them but she'll have to work for it
All I practically saw was Ultron pushing warlock around. Vibranium isn't as durable as you might think. At least, not as durable as Adamantium.
IIRC they were all made of Vibranium. and Vibranium absorbs energy. so the fact he was doing anything to them at all is a feat itself. Vibranium is the second most durable metal after Adamantium. its tanked some pretty impressive stuff.
- How do you compare any of them to wonder woman? Apart from Diana's inability to breath in space, I'm not seeing any impressive deal of strength from Warlock.
- Wonder woman doesn't have any weapons that project any sort of energy that I know of. She has a set of bracelets that restrict her full powers, which is also often considered her greatest defense and a sword that cuts through atoms.
If you are saying Warlock drains the "magic" from the bracelets... he better be ready for a god! Juist for note: she has fought multiple krytonians with her bracelet on. The only instance I remember she took her bracelets off was against Superdoom (Superman infected by Doomsday), and she handed it to him, tied him up and brought him to near orbit, before letting him go. Superdoom is a multi planet range monstrosity.
You had better not underestimate Wonder Woman's strength. She has shut a tear in space time continuum connecting Earth to phantom zone. Warlock may put up a shield. I doubt its keeping her from him or containing her.
And this was with her bracelets on. Non is a Kryptonian and even he could not close the tear. I'm not saying Non was stronger on par with Zod, Faora or Kara and Superman but he was a kryptonian nonetheless.
- Now, as far as the vibranium bots go; Superman and Martian Manhunter has dealt with some brainiac robots designed to face off against heavy hitters, which could absorb or negate blows from the likes of Superman. They had no trouble destroying these. I can't fetch the scan now, I will later probably. Point being if they can do it, Diana can do the same.
@lowlaville: how do i compare Quasar to Wonder Woman? i compare Quasar to Martian Manhunter and Silver Surfer
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Quasar was channeling the energy of a star
Quasar was the one blocking Galactus. i compare Quasar to the likes of Silver surfer
Wonder woman doesn't have any weapons that project any sort of energy that I know of. She has a set of bracelets that restrict her full powers, which is also often considered her greatest defense and a sword that cuts through atoms.
Strength isnt how hes gonna win this its gonna be AoE, Single Energy attacks, and of course mass matter manipulation
thats a whole planet
now i know what your thinking thats not a living thing... its ok
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here he has done it on a living thing, and once to kill a human. (can you imagine... itty bitty Wonder Woman)
If you are saying Warlock drains the "magic" from the bracelets... he better be ready for a god! Juist for note: she has fought multiple krytonians with her bracelet on. The only instance I remember she took her bracelets off was against Superdoom (Superman infected by Doomsday), and she handed it to him, tied him up and brought him to near orbit, before letting him go. Superdoom is a multi planet range monstrosity.
theres a few things here.
1. these multiple Kryptonians just got done kicking the living crap out of Super Man.
2. None of anyone you mentioned has the energy projection or the defensive capabilities like Adam Warlock
3. Adam Warlock may not be as fast them but hes a heck of a lot more versatile
You had better not underestimate Wonder Woman's strength. She has shut a tear in space time continuum connecting Earth to phantom zone. Warlock may put up a shield. I doubt its keeping her from him or containing her.
i have no doubt she'll get through the shield... eventually. but the shield protected them from a point blank exploding star.
- Now, as far as the vibranium bots go; Superman and Martian Manhunter has dealt with some brainiac robots designed to face off against heavy hitters, which could absorb or negate blows from the likes of Superman. They had no trouble destroying these. I can't fetch the scan now, I will later probably. Point being if they can do it, Diana can do the same.
sure sure. i was just showing some of Warlocks Striking feats. his AoE, Single Energy blasts and matter manipulation will grant him the win
@serrure: Okay lets proceed. So your basic point is energy/matter manipulation and energy blasts give Warlock the win?
Question: Just how powerful are his blasts?
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Both Superman and Wonder woman were deprieved of all energy, and they still managed to tank a nuke and walk out of it. Superman looked like a zombie whilst Diana was looking better, much better. I doubt any of Warlock's energy blasts does much damage to Diana. This shows well just how resistant she is to energy based attacks.
That's not all, she heals fast, very fast.
If that's not enough, she always has her bracelets, that can deflect practically planet busting force.
This was during the time she had deflected Omega beam and proceeded to blind Darkseid. Here's darkseid destroying a planet with it.
As far as Diana's magical artefects go, they are all but immune to matter manipulation. Here's Diana facing some kind of a monster which devoured any organic matter such as energy and people that came into contact with it. Diana herself was immune to its matter ingestion.
Apollo pretty much slaps Superman. Wonder woman was able to hold his own against him for a fairly good amount of time. She is able to fight on par with Hermes, the fastest God without much of a problem.
As for how Diana wins this, thats pretty simple. She can downright blitzstomp Warlock. Here's how fast wonder woman is. A base superman can go at 1000 miles per second, thats over Mach 4700. Wonder woman has blitzed and lassod, pretty much stomped a doomsday amped Superman.
@lowlaville: not too shabby you dont make it easy.
Question: Just how powerful are his blasts?
powerful enough to KO 2 of the most powerful non-abstract ppl in Marvel. I mean of course Quasar and Silver Surfer. even if they weren't expecting it (and quasar was thats why he bound Warlock in one of his constructs) he still KO'ed them
and Silver Surfer has shown some pretty amazing durability to just about anything you can think of. certainly more powerful than one Nuclear Blast. they will do considerable amounts of damage to Wonder Woman and certainly more than a nuclear bomb. I also remember Superman wrapping Wonder Woman in his cape
he seems to have protected her from most of the blast.
That's not all, she heals fast, very fast.
most people of this tier do, even Adam Warlock does. in that fight with Vulcan, you see him severely depleted and has very little magical energy left
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when he teleported he was still grey faced. after words he was back to his normal power lvls
As far as Diana's magical artefects go, they are all but immune to matter manipulation. Here's Diana facing some kind of a monster which devoured any organic matter such as energy and people that came into contact with it. Diana herself was immune to its matter ingestion.
That organic monster has never demonstrated Magic Manipulation on the scale that Warock has. regardless shes not gonna get the chance to use it. nor does it consume all energy as current Warlock does now
which i believe that Lasso is.
If that's not enough, she always has her bracelets, that can deflect practically planet busting force.
she can block the bolts but lets take a closer look at the scan of where he KO's Quasar
he didnt actually fire a blast at Quasar, he just shorted him out. hard to block something that happens internally
Apollo pretty much slaps Superman. Wonder woman was able to hold his own against him for a fairly good amount of time. She is able to fight on par with Hermes, the fastest God without much of a problem.
i suppose if Hermes had the feats he had in Pre 52 i'd be impressed but all those feats were retconned. the only speed feat of Hermes that i can recall in Nu 52 is keeping up with Wonder Woman.
As for how Diana wins this, thats pretty simple. She can downright blitzstomp Warlock. Here's how fast wonder woman is. A base superman can go at 1000 miles per second, thats over Mach 4700. Wonder woman has blitzed and lassod, pretty much stomped a doomsday amped Superman.
if that were in character for her i'd believe it. but it'd be just about the same as me saying he could turn her into atoms. while he has displayed the ability to do so he doesnt necessarily do it with his morals on. and Superdoom demonstrated no amount of speed at all.
meanwhile Warlock has stopped a blitzing Vulcan and Black Bolt. neither are as fast as Wonder Woman but its not like he was struggling to stop them either
Adam Warlock holds the cards here. Physically he would probably lose to Wonder Woman. luckily he has the versatility to make up for that difference to win.
@serrure: You don't make it any easier either. Ha!
he didnt actually fire a blast at Quasar, he just shorted him out. hard to block something that happens internally
Wonder Woman is no stranger to getting shocked. And she was in the water so amplified shock felt right down the very bones of her body. She's survived this.
She can survive in sub zero temperatures without slowing down or even feeling a chill.
She even has high durability against magic. While Cyborg and Superman were being torn apart by a storm of teeth, Diana was without a scratch. And this was a field of magic where the reality was being warped. She was all but immune to the effects.
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The very first scan I posted is enough to act as proof of wonder woman's durability. She has no weakness, as she has shown pretty much everything she has faced. Well it doesn't mean she has not been hurt or damaged.
meanwhile Warlock has stopped a blitzing Vulcan and Black Bolt. neither are as fast as Wonder Woman but its not like he was struggling to stop them either
As it stands, I'm not seeing any impressive speed feat from Warlock. You claimed he sidestepped one of surfer's strikes, but even then surfer only casually launched an attack at him. There's no proof or any speed feats involved therein.
powerful enough to KO 2 of the most powerful non-abstract ppl in Marvel. I mean of course Quasar and Silver Surfer. even if they weren't expecting it (and quasar was thats why he bound Warlock in one of his constructs) he still KO'ed them
Alright, got ya. Though, as I've shown before, energy blasts or just blasts of equal magnitude are without effect on Wonder woman. Her bracelets can defend her against most if not all manner of attacks without difficulty, ranging from planet busting lasers to bullets that can be painful to abstractal beings.
Here's WW deflecting pandora's bullets which caused pain to Phantom Stranger (even hurt superman) and deflecting the Omega Beam.
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Well, you agree they are useless on Wonder Woman, but simply trying to shock her is not effective. What gives Wonder woman the win is her speed, which she's shown countless times against Hal Jordan, Superman, Zod, Kara and Faora likewise. One of the best showings has already been explored, against Cheetah. If I were to show you more, it would be the fight where she practically blitzes Faora and fights Zod at the same time, compelling them to retreat.
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Note: Superman is deadweight at that point. Note 2: WW's sword is also extremely durable, seeing as it deflected a strike from Zod's heat vision.
Supergirl is fast enough to have a bout with flash and even land solid blows on him. Wonder Woman even gives her a valuable fighting lesson while beating her.
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Nothing you provided suffice to say Warlock is capable of reacting to this kind of speed. And this is WW with her bracelets on. She is simply faster and stronger without them. But lets face facts; I doubt Diana would need to take them off. She can end it in one strike from her sword. And that's a good game.
I'm ready to go for voting over here. You can have a replyl and we can go for voting.
@lowlaville: this is gonna be my last post before things get entirely repetitive (this is gonna be like 75% repetitive)
Wonder Woman is no stranger to getting shocked. And she was in the water so amplified shock felt right down the very bones of her body. She's survived this
not the same kind of attack. though its close. that attack still came externally.
She can survive in sub zero temperatures without slowing down or even feeling a chill
most people can. i'm pretty sure even Gambits power set lets him survive in sub zero temperatures for extended amounts of time.
She even has high durability against magic. While Cyborg and Superman were being torn apart by a storm of teeth, Diana was without a scratch. And this was a field of magic where the reality was being warped. She was all but immune to the effects.
that hardly looks like a magical attack. even more so the kind of attacks that Warlock will be using
As it stands, I'm not seeing any impressive speed feat from Warlock. You claimed he sidestepped one of surfer's strikes, but even then surfer only casually launched an attack at him. There's no proof or any speed feats involved therein.
Surfer was near blood lust there. he was fighting for his love Shalla Bell and Mephisto tricked him.
lets also take a look at his fight with Ikon
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he absolutely destroyed her
now lets look at what happened to the Annihilators
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and he beat her in close quarters
Alright, got ya. Though, as I've shown before, energy blasts or just blasts of equal magnitude are without effect on Wonder woman. Her bracelets can defend her against most if not all manner of attacks without difficulty, ranging from planet busting lasers to bullets that can be painful to abstractal beings.
Here's WW deflecting pandora's bullets which caused pain to Phantom Stranger (even hurt superman) and deflecting the Omega Beam.
single blasts have been shown to be blocked. but powerful AoEs as you have shown with the nuke are more than capable of damaging her
Well, you agree they are useless on Wonder Woman, but simply trying to shock her is not effective. What gives Wonder woman the win is her speed, which she's shown countless times against Hal Jordan, Superman, Zod, Kara and Faora likewise. One of the best showings has already been explored, against Cheetah. If I were to show you more, it would be the fight where she practically blitzes Faora and fights Zod at the same time, compelling them to retreat.
a shock that worked on 2 of the best Energy Manipulators in both DC and Marvel wont work on Wonder Woman? you lost me there
Shields, AoE blast and versatility far make up for the speed. and the speed differential is not large enough to make a difference. its not like Thor vs Wonder Woman where she would win only relying on speed. its not enough
theres allot wrong with the Kryptonians scan anyone who runs through Superman in that way should fall to such a level that they cant double team Wonder Woman.
Supergirl is fast enough to have a bout with flash and even land solid blows on him. Wonder Woman even gives her a valuable fighting lesson while beating her.
theres also allot wrong with that Flash vs Supergirl set. Flash was in no way going his fastest. ive seen the Captain Atom and Flash scan. Supergirl sucks, it makes every bot of sense for Wonder Woman to absolutely stomp her. Nu 52 Supergirl is the equivalent to Marvels Sentry. yeah they both have a few really good feats here and there but all in all they pretty much suck.
Nothing you provided suffice to say Warlock is capable of reacting to this kind of speed. And this is WW with her bracelets on. She is simply faster and stronger without them. But lets face facts; I doubt Diana would need to take them off. She can end it in one strike from her sword. And that's a good game.
again if it was entirely in character for Wonder Woman to kill at first site this would be a plausible option. but again he has the necessary speed to pull an AoE blast to stop the speed blitz
Good debating guys, both did a great job of representing these underrated characters; both arguments were very good and it was balanced.
I'm giving a minuscule edge to @serrure, I think he highlighted Adam Warlock as good, and showed his very slight superiority; but great job @lowlaville I think after this thread, New-52 Diana might get a little more credit.
Oooo, this is a hard one. @lowlaville did a great job with just 3 years worth of feats, but I'm going to have to say @Serrure edged it out. Good job to both though!
@serrure: You're right about repetition. I'd just lost all the scans I coould muster that was relevant, and was on the brink of repetition. Thanks for the splendid debate! Now, I'll just go and tag some experts on both ends.
@apocalypse3: @johnfrank120: @kingant27: Appreciate all of your words. Thanks. I really enjoyed presenting wonder woman in this fashion. She's usually underrated in New 52.. but I personally believe, for now anyway...that she has the superiority in almost every area... apart from not being able to breathe in space.
MY vote goes to @lowlaville he showed off Diana beautifully. I didn't realize her durability was so good and seems to be better than Supes?
Well she was affected, though not hindered in the slightiest by DD's poison. Superman is an ace in that area in that he was never affected by the radiation, but got infected by DD spores. Of course Diana's resiliancy is definitely better seeing as normal humans die off instantly on contact with the poison.
Nicely Done! You guy both represented you're characters beautifully. I give the slight edge to @serrure I think he highlighted Adam Warlock as good, and showed his very slight superiority; but great job @lowlaville I recently just started reading New 52 WW & New 52 Superman & WW & she is a beast & I hope ppl start to see that & give her more credit. I think you're post will show that.
Good debate, I give my vote to serrure, he showed Warlock's powers and abilities giving a good view of the ways he could win or how he could take Wonder Woman defensively
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