Clayface vs Spider Man

Problem is, that's the only thing he has here to really incapacitate Clayface. I mean, what else is going to help him if he decides to not whip the cyro-pellets out right when the battle starts. He has no prior knowledge. I'm not undermining his intelligence though, he's still smart, we just don't know if he'll pull them out quick enough to secure a win.

L. D.

Peter is way faster than clay face. It doesn't need to be his first move. He isn't untouchable but its going to take clayface a while to tag him. He can dodge long enough for him to think to use cryo pellets.

@jashro44: True, but Clayface can turn solid if Peter decides to sucker punch him if none of his other melee tactics are working at the beginning. And Basil is extremely durable and strong as well; he can absorb Peter and suffocate him if needed, and considering we're assuming Peter's morals are on, I see this being the case more times than not.

L. D.

Peter isn't going to leave his fist in clayface. He's going to pull it out before clayface turns his body solid. I think what you need to take into account is peter has a lot of experience with people similar to clayface (Sand man, Hydro man, etc) where as clay face has no experience against someone like spider-man, who uses his wall crawling powers to give him more maneuverability, and his agility to leap around. Clayface has never fought someone like spider-man, his spider-powers give him a fairly unorthodox fighting style clayface has never seen before where as clay face isn't bringing up to this fight Peter hasn't seen with sand man.

Between Peters power set, experience and equipment I don't see him losing a majority. I can see maybe a few loses here and there but for the most part I think he has this.

All Peter has to rely on here are his fists, legs, and his cyro-pellets which he'll only utilize much later into the battle. So whenever his shots land, Clayface is always going to try to grab on considering his extremely malleable body.

Agility and wall-crawling is simply going to delay things as Clayface spaces himself out. Although I agree Peter has faced people with abilities parallel to Clayface's, he's walked into those battles headstrong, knowing their weakness' prior to stepping into battle.

Peter's fighting style is not going to matter when Clayface is spacing himself out to absorb Spidey. Besides he's had multiple encounters with Batman to deal with different fighting styles and I don't see the unorthodox fighting style that makes Peter's style so different. Basil's immune to melee attacks anyway. And Peter has had his fair share of battles of being smacked around by Sandman.

His speed may be a problem, his experience is worthy but like I said, he's had prior knowledge before stepping in to those battles and the only equipment to help him here are those pellets. And even then, I have doubts on whether those pellets will completely halt Clayface.

L. D.

As I have said Peter has faced several malleable enemies. Reed, Hydro man, sand man, etc, he knows how to deal with them and out maneuver them because he has practice doing that for years.

Its not exactly going to take a genius to figure out clayfaces abilities. And Clayface doesn't know anything about spider-man either, difference being is he has no way to figure out about spider-sense so he wont be trying to figure out how to trick it. He's never faced a precog before so he wont be able to adapt and tag spider-man. Peter on the other hand will easily adapt to clay face. As for agility and wall crawling delaying things, thats all it needs to do. Remember Peter only needs to survive long enough to use a cryo pellet which is something he is honestly over qualified to do.

Batman doesn't have a fighting style at all similar to spider-mans. The reason why Shang chi used magnetic tech to allow him to walk on surfaces was so he could play to spider-mans strengths. You wont find batman and lady shiva bouncing off of walls like this because they don't have Peters ability to wall crawl:

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Peters wall crawling ability tends to get over looked a lot in the battle forums but what people don't really consider is that it gives him a level of maneuverability martial artists like batman, wolverine, lady shiva, etc can only dream of. It gives him more room to move around since he can actually stick to the wall and run along the wall. Clayface hasn't fought someone with that power and therefore hasn't fought someone else with that level of maneuverability. The reason I say Peter has an unorthadox style is because his agility, and wall crawling abilities let him perform hit an run tactics that other characters cannot perform. Like against Hyde when he fought him with an injured leg in an elevator, for any other character they wouldn't have had the room to maneuver but spider-man did due to his agility and wall crawling:

You just don't see batman moving around like spider-man does. Even ignoring the fact Peter is way faster and more agile, his wall crawling ability adds another element to his movements clayface has never seen before. Just like Hyde clayface would likely get dizzy just watching spider-man bounce around. He would seriously struggle to tag Peter. Than you also have his spider-sense which does guide his movements in combat, and will let him easily predict clayfaces which adds another element clayface isn't prepared for. Sandman for example knows about these elements and has just as much experience fighting spider-man as spider-man does with him, which is why sand man would have an easier time tagging Peter than clay face would.

The knowledge card works both ways. Clayface knows nothing about Peters powers, equipment, or experience. Difference being is Peters experience will allow him to adapt a lot quicker in this fight to clayfaces advantages, than clayface will adapting to spider-mans. His speed, spider-sense, wall crawling and agility make him to tough to tag. Its not impossible but the more likely and logical scenario is Peter will use his cryo pellets. Plus even if clay face does tag Peter he needs more than a glancing blow, which will be hard since Peters spider-sense will tell him which way to roll with a blow to reduce the impact, and with his agility he will easily recover from clayfaces attack like so:

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Clay face isn't smart, adaptive, or experienced enough to handle spider-man, where as Peter is very smart and experienced with clayfaces type. Adapting will be a piece of cake for him, and it wont take long for him to use cryo pellets. As for them stopping clayface, apparently clayface was frozen in Arkham war.

@jashro44:

1. Like I said, Peter's always always had prep or prior knowledge before trying to beat the enemies that you've listed. And I don't how Reed would come into play here, his powers work differently -- more elastically and it's a lot more restricted.

2. It doesn't take a genius, but it takes the right mentality and equipment to put Clayface down. Basil doesn't need to know about the spider sense because he's immune to all melee attacks even if they come at him really fast. Considering his surface is made of clay, when Spider-Man atacks his surface, it'll be easier for him to grab onto Spidey than compared to Pete's other villains. Then again, I don't believe Pete carries his cyro-pellets often. Does he?

3. So how exactly are these fighting skills of wall crawling going to help put down Clayface? And that's the only thing that actually makes him different from other fighters, his wall-crawling. He' s always going to have to connect to Clayface to attack, and when he keep doing it, all Clayface has to do is hold on. Although Pete's more maneuverable with his wall-crawling, he's still going to have to connect his shots every single time.

4. Experience, fighting skills and speed are the elements Spidey has over CF. But Clayface has every single other advantage ranging from his malleable body which he can manipulate and grow the size of with his will, the swift regeneration of his body, his durability which includes immunity to all physical attacks, his never-ending endurance, stamina and strength. On top of this he has much loser morals, which is usually Spider-Man's downfall against a lot of his enemies, and that will especially hinder him here, considering he won't be utilizing any his best attacks or using full use of his wall-crawling skills at least until later in the battle when it's too late. Also, even if the cyro pelletes do work, Clayface can get out of if, if his whole body is not covered by the ice and regenerate to his full composure again. And Clayface doesn't even have to hit Spider-Man to win, although he very easily can, as he can turn as hard as brick making himself bulletproof, all he has to do is catch Pete and absorb him for a suffocation-win.

You also mentioned his spider-sense tells him where to reduce the impact of blows. This is yet another example where he'll hold back with his morals on, he won't use his power to the fullest extent.

5. From here we can agree to disagree. I told you my points, and from what you've shown me I think Pete can provide a good fight, maybe take a few wins. But I can't see him take a solid majority of wins in a random encounter against a guy as versatile, powerful and dangerous as Clayface.

L. D.

Peter is a scientific genius, and as @jashro44 mentioned...carries cryo pellets. Besides being an improvisational master in combat, who has used his environment, wits, and improvisational skills in combat to defeat the likes of Sandman and so on, without prep mind you, he still carries cryo pellets. Clayface is a thug, Pete is scientific genius who has a laundry list of malleable enemies, and again, carries cryo pellets...not sure why you would bring up the idea that his spider-sense and knowing where to hit would cause him to hold back? Sounds a little far fetched, and like you are reaching.

He freezes Clayface with a cryo pellet, and goes on about his day. Clayface is far too slow to fight Spidey.

if peter lost he wouldnt be breathing and most most importantly he would be unmasked in public bc a lot of his villians are paid by jay jonah jameson to unmask him .. even vemon who is like the most liberal out of spidey's villian would kill him given the chance.. vemon knocked him unconsicious and then wanted to kill him on the island where spidey tricked him he couldve killed spidey but vemon wanted to savor it .. that counts as losing

@JetiiMitra said:

@blackdog2009 said:

@mitran:

Clayface can manipulate his mass expertly, grow in size effectively getting stronger. He gave Wonder Woman a run for her money by brute force alone. Wonder Woman is A LOT stronger than Spiderman. But all this is moot actually. It's not a bench pressing contest. I'm willing to concede that Spiderman wins by outsmarting Clayface who is impulsive, and quickly gets distracted in fights and tends to just go away when things don't go his way.

I'm not familiar with either instance, but I'm going to have to ask for factors. If Clayface was on that level consistently then Batman should have been dead quite a few times over. With WW, anyway, since in pre-52 she was formed from clay, it only takes a little stretch for Clayface to be able to... whatever he did... to her. Again though, I'm not familiar with either instance, so I'd like to know the context of each scan.

Not sure about the Power Girl one, but the WW one I DO remember.

He absorbed her power because they were both made of clay. (At least, at that point in time.)

@leonkarlen123: :if he can tag wonderwoman, then current batman is actually batman number 100000000

all the other have died by this guy

@blackdog2009: ok so he makes himself like the hulk... then what?

I don't see Spidey having any more difficulty dealing with Clayface than he normally does with Sandman or Hydroman.

Reed isn't restricted and the point is he is malleable. And as I said he doesn't need prior knowledge. One punch will tell him everything he needs to know about clayface.

Again why is clayface going to have more luck grabbing spider-man in comparison to sandman? Its going to take a long time for clayface to grab spider-man. And yes current spider-man carries cryo pellets as standard gear:

He can connect but why are you assuming he will continue punching clayface? He has experience against these types of villains so he knows that wont work, and Peter is a genius. He would have to be pretty stupid to keep attacking clayface physically and not think of another way to win (like Cryo pellets), and we know Peter is actually very intelligent. The point is he wont be able to tag Peter due to Peters greater speed and mobility, clayfaces lack of experience against someone like spider-man, and the fact that like Hyde clayface is probably going to get dizzy watching Peter leap around dodging him, which will make Peter even harder to tag.

Wall crawling is going to help him avoid clayfaces attacks by giving him plenty of room to out manoeuvre him, and it will throw clayface off.

None of clayfaces advantages help him. literally Peter deals with that exact combination of advantages all the time and does well. Clayface has never dealt with Peters advantages so he wont be able to do as well. As for morals why does Peter need to hold back against the guy who is impervious to physical harm? I don't see why cry pellets wouldn't freeze clayfaces entire body. He carries multiple at a time, and they expand on the enemy when he uses them on. I don't see why his entire body wouldn't end up getting covered.

Ultimately its likely not going to take him that long to use cryo pellets, and it is going to take clayface a while to tag Peter, and even if he does tag Peter he might not even one shot him. In short I think @wyldsong summed it up:

Peter is really just to smart and experienced to lose a majority to clayface.

1. Mr. Fantastic is much less malleable then Clayface. And one punch to know everything is debatable.
2. It will take a while, but he's also more malleable than Clayface imo. He can shapeshift with his abilities and he can make himself bigger without needing an external source like sand. And does Peter actually have feats where he has uses those in action?
3. He's simply going to tire Peter out until one of the shots lands deep enough, and when that happens, all he has to do is harden and absorb. The first time is the best chance to do this, because Peter's definitely going to land one good shot if it may be his first. Peter's a good scientist due to his experimentation skills, but that's going to cost him here.
4. Like I said, he does well because he knows what he's going up against. Peter usually get's his buttocks kicked hard within the first encounters of his enemies. Likewise, I think he'll be capable of running away here, but not winning a majority. Do you have proof that he has multiple and that they with expand on impact to cover the whole enemy for as someone as expandable as Clayface?
5. Like I said, Clayface doesn't need to land a hit. All Peter needs to do is land a deep shot and Clayface eats him up. And I still don't think a morals-on Peter is going to whip it out fast enough. Just what I think.
6. Just wanted to say this is was a nice debate, but I'm done here, and I respectfully disagree with you but you make really good points. I don't deny that Peter will put up a really good fight and you convinced me that.

I already mentioned all of this in my earlier posts. I don't think he'll whip it out fast enough. And the likeliness he's going to hit Clayface deep is much more likely at the beginning of the battle than him whipping out his cyro-pellets anyway. And yes, he comes into his battles with Sandman and Hydroman knowing who he's going up against.

L. D.

but your right about one thing clayface is durable he has a better chance at beating spidey than mr fantastic does mr fantastic can be hurt if hit in the right spot clayface doesnt really have a arm or chin to hurt

1. Not sure I agree but this isn't relevant to the point overall. And how would spider-man not know everything after one punch? He punches him, his hand is inside his body, he knows not to punch him and clearly the guy is made out of a clay like substance. Peter will feel the texture when his hand is inside him.
2. I have posted scans in this thread of him using them on Hydro man in post 97 on page 2. Clayface does have limits on the size he can grow to without adding clay to his body. He isn't that big usually.
3. Peter has been able to fight Morlun for 12 hours he isn't going to tire any time soon. Peter has monstrous endurance when push comes to shove. I don't even see this fight lasting an hour to be honest let alone long enough to tire Peter out.
4. Maybe in the 60's he did due to lack of experience, but thats not really the case these days because of his experience which is the point I've been trying to make. Peter specifically said he carries freeze capsules not a freeze capsule. You can look at the scan I posted previously to see them expand.
5. Why wouldn't a morals on Peter us a freeze capsule? He was going to use them on captain america until Steve knocked them out of his hand. And Steve is his hero. They are designed to save incapacitate, not hurt an enemy. As for clayface eating him, I don't believe he's ever restrained someone as strong as spider-man. Even so Peter can probably pull his fist out before clayface hardens.
6. Thats fine.

@jashro44: You can lead a horse to water jash, you just cannot make them drink=)

Peter is far, far smarter than Clayface, who is really just a poor man's Sandman. Considering what Pete has faced, and the fact that he carries the cryo pellets...yeah, I kind of doubt that he wouldn't think about it until it was too late. He sees someone with a malleable form who attacks like foes he has already faced...it really does not take much for someone of Peter's level of intellect, someone who has impressed the likes of Reed Richards and every top mind in the Marvel U, to figure out what to do.

Pete carries cryo pellets, Clayface is too slow and a thug, and Pete wins this fight, simple as that.

So, you're just gonna make stuff up now?

@vegandiet:

No? Freezes cryo tech is superior to Spider-Man's. Its just like that. Next you'll be saying spiderman has better freezing gadets than Captain Cold

If a well prepared Batman using various special gears (including cryo gears) couldn't defeat him...how will Spiderman to do so?

Both Spiderman and Batman are smart are smarter than him, but I think unnecessary continue depreciating a character because he's not as smart as the other character. Peter was already defeated by not so smart characters before,did you forget this @wyldsong? Most standart gears (shown into the scan above) that Spiderman owns, batman had for many years...there are virtually no differences

Spiderman might win due to being more faster and agile,and having cryo capsules capsules, but he will have to freeze Basil Karlo completely. He can not leave a part of it without being frozen, because he can control it.

There is more in Clayface than the eye can see besides being a shape-shifter,he's capable to adapt ,evolving and copy a person until the base of DNA as shown in the scan below (from Batman 19).

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Someone told Spiderman could use the environment against him, but what the environment could defeat it? I'm not saying it can not be defeated or he is invincible, but he is harder than many want to admit.

Feats

Batman 21

A well prepared Batman used electricity,coolant,solvent and hydrogen fluoride against him without sucess. BAtman only defeated him when outsmart him to enter in a energy cell that could only be turned off using the genetic code of Basil Karlo,his own DNA,which he doesn't have acess anymore.

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Batman: The Dark Knight 23.3

Take bullets

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Tanked a explosion that destroyed a underground military facility

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Batwoman 35 & 40

Take a sword from a demon and then suffocate him.

Clayface survived and reform himself from a blast that killed Etrigan (fired by Morgane Le Fay).

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Whistand heat from reentry....

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Forever Evil : Rogues Rebellion 4

Take a blast from Heatwave that destroyed a city block....Clayface is in ground zero.

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Forever Evil: Arkham War 3-4

Frozen by a Mr. Freeze's gun is able to get free (off panel)

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@matchesmalone21: Again I have addressed the batman example. Look at clayfaces reaction while batman freezes him. He is clearly concerned about being frozen. All batman did was freeze his arms. Batman did have prep but he came to that fight under prepared, he should have brought more freezing gell. Peter will freeze his body completely. As for Arkham war scans I see fire fly in the back ground so I am not sure if clayface escaped on his own power.

Amped New 52 clayface would have Spiderman's DNA early in the fight.

He would use that to catch him.

And the cryogenic pellets are hit and miss against big opponents. It may work or not, it is inconsistent.

Verdict seems to be if the gear used on Sandman and Hydroman works on clayface, Peter will win. Otherwise Karlo dominates a long fight.

How are spider-mans cryo pellets inconsistent?

@clownprinceofcrime1995: You know darn well that's not what I meant. I meant the complete bull crap about that being a weaker version of arkham war being before that Batman storyline. If you're going to just make crap up, then don't bother debating.

And that wasn't Mr. Freeze. It was Empire Penguin.

@jashro44: Clayface is able to get bigger,smaller and even can get thinner to pass through a bank vault....so he could use this abilities to take advantage of the enviroment. When I get home...I will post some scans.

Could you post some feats of Spiderman using the cryo pellets? I didn't fins any...

I posted it on the previous page.

And yes it is standard gear.

@jashro44: Batman didn't know how much Karlo had evolved, so he used all kinds of weapons that were used against the previous version of him ....ie, he underestimated Clayface.

I agree. Which is why I don't think that showing proves clayface is immune to freezing. Batman just didn't use enough to freeze clayfaces entire body. Peter can actually freeze clayfaces entire body. If one cryo pellet doesn't do it, he has multiple.

@jashro44: I'm already aware of that is stabdart gears and leave pretty clear on my previous posts.

Thanks for the scans

No problem.

@jashro44: I didn't sais Clayface is immune to freeze,but he have to be completely frozen....because he can split or disguised a civilian. Soon I will post scans Of Clayface splitting.

Also Clayface van shoot pieces Of himself to hit people,he should vê able to shoot at the cryo pellets

How many cryo pellets Peter carries?

I don't know how many cryo pellets Peter carries exactly. I know he carries multiple. Does clayface have the accuracy to shoot a cryo pellet out of the air? How would he even know what spider-man is planning on doing? They don't have any knowledge of each other.

@jashro44: So Clayface need prep to know someone would use weapons against him?

He needs knowledge of spider-man to know that spider-man carries cryo pellets as standard gear.

@jashro44: When I said Clayface would know that Peter would use cryo pellets? He could see something on Peter's hand and realize that is a weapon....

@jashro44: Clayface isn't a smart guy,but he's Cléber sometimes

Yes but clayface wouldn't think it was a threat to him. He isn't one to usually avoid attacks.

Idk...clayface has a good track record fighting guys like batman...who basically as tactical and battle precise as you can get...and at times clayface has pulled the advantage over him...clayface might just be able to figure out that an opponent has some type of weapon up his sleeve...i mean for the most part he is outsmarted by bruce wayne...freakin BRUCE WAYNE..compared to many including fellow heroes...he makes anybody look like an idiot...

@jashro44: they only work when Sandman or Hydroman are not at absurd sizes. He still wins, but he does not one shot Sandman on the beach when he is the size of a building. And that is exactly what Vlayface does.

Naturally, if there are scans of standard gear pellets dropping sandman when he is 3-4 storeys tall I will adjust.

Peter has never tried them on sand man. And clayface is rarely the size of buildings.

From what I saw above, Calyface should win.

@jashro44: New 52 goes from 20-30 feet easily.

Dark Knight 23.3 had him bigger than a bus.

He can slow him down.

but unless he can find something to contain him, or is potent enough to incapable him at peak levels, Clayface has the advantage.

PS. As late as Batman Eternal Clayface has been owned by household solvents concentrated...

But jobber aura is off.

I don't see how...

20-30 ft isn't really what I have in mind when someone mentions building level. I thought you meant like wayne tower big.

@jashro44: He has been 4-5 storeys in New 52. That is about 300-400 tons. It is extremely unlikely that Peter Parker carries pellets that would freeze over half a million pounds. Due to the massive collateral damage.

If the dissolving properties of some incarnations of clayface are included, he would be able to eat through webbinG. But, if jobber aura is on...

I am not saying Spider-Man would be weak to lose to peak Clayface that is not jobbing. I actually do not see how Batman could survive a random with him tbh.

I don't believe that would make clayface 300 tons but that is besides the point. Regardless here is sand man using freezing tech which was based on Peters tech:

It will take about 5 cryo pellets max to incapacitate clayface assuming he is 30 feet. Less assuming clayface is 20 feet.

@jashro44: Your scan speaks a lot, though I believe in an enclosed environment like a small warehouse where BFR is not allowed, Clayface would win. In an open field or a very large building, I think Spider-Man would be victor.

Also has the pellet worked on Sandman before? I'm not fully confident that the cyro-pellet will take full coverage of Clayface's body until he can reform out of it. I can see how it works quite well on Hydroman though.

L. D.

Sand man isn't the same thing as clayface. Clay has a lot of water in it IIRC except when it hardens. All though even if clayface does harden himself it should still work, since it worked on cap. The reason Peter doesn't use it on sand man is because he designed acidic webbing to fight sand man, and because the only time he fought sand man after having the cryo pellets was in ends of the earth when they fought in a desert so he couldn't exactly just freeze sand man and call it a day since sand man was literally the entire desert.

Also the OP says it takes place in New York city after clay face robbed a bank. So Peter should have plenty of room. I agree in an enclosed space clayface wins since that limits Peter a lot.

@jashro44: Makes sense. I don't believe the feats posted earlier in the thread with powerhouses are valid. But I do believe Clayface can find ways around the ice. He could expand himself and break out of it. Or he could even melt it with acid. So if it's a moderately-sized building where the battle is taking place, I'm still giving it to CF. But if the environment takes place on the NYC streets, I can see Pete taking it.

L. D.

Wait since when can clayface create acid?

I believe his clay is acidic to a degree.

L. D.