how do you come up with these? it seems like alot or work for such odd battles.....
chthon is an elder god that needs a host... whatever host he gets possession of, becomes him. so rebecca is chthon, and chthon is very powerful. i just want people to distinguish the differences of power levels AND wits and see who can win through both power and smarts.
Power wise, the team might not stand a chance, but there are bounds to be an opening of weakness especially since the host is RebeccaBlack. The team can probably project mental images of Justin Biber and love breaks the spell of Chthon since he finds it too repulsive.
how do you come up with these? it seems like alot or work for such odd battles.....
chthon is an elder god that needs a host... whatever host he gets possession of, becomes him. so rebecca is chthon, and chthon is very powerful. i just want people to distinguish the differences of power levels AND wits and see who can win through both power and smarts.
Power wise, the team might not stand a chance, but there are bounds to be an opening of weakness especially since the host is RebeccaBlack. The team can probably project mental images of Justin Biber and love breaks the spell of Chthon since he finds it too repulsive.
1. Thanos didn't actually hurt Champion, he out smarted him. Hell, he didn't even pit his own strength against Champion's in a direct confrontation. Not exactly impressive, considering Champion's less than brilliant mind.
2. Thanos didn't even take any direct hits from Champion, so it's not even an impressive feat of Durability.
3. Champion wasn't actually using the full power of the Gem.
As I already pointed out, Supergirl has strength and durability feats that are just as impressive(if not more so) than any of Champion's, and Darkseid has tanked punches from her on his own durability, and has shown strength equal to, or greater than, hers.
I am NOT saying Champion had better feats, what i am however saying is Power Gem has better feats. Thanos used his shield to tank them, which is a standard equipment for him. Also the same champion blew up a planet with a punch, thats as impressive as it gets. I am NOT saying Darkseid has less feats, in fact if you look at what i have been saying i said Darkseid SHOULD win. What i dont understand is, if you are using the fact that Champion with Power Gem did not beat Ben in 2 rounds to undermine that feats you will have to acknoweledge what happened with batman.
B. Since you seem to be one of the people that actually think Batman was able to "hurt the Spectre", try reading the comic. Spectre allowed it because Batman needed the release. In Darkseid's case, he(spectre) did no such thing, Darkseid actually hurt him(not critically in any way, but enough to cause discomfort at least) on his own merits. When Thanos blasted Galactus, he didn't even do that. All he managed to do was piss him off, and then he ran away. Again, not exactly an impressive feat from Thanos.
Thanos has plenty of impressive feats, but his supporters, for some reason, always seem to bring out the ones that aren't.
Try reading the comics, really. Spectre allowing Batman to hit him has nothing to do with the fact he hurt him with a kick EVEN MADE HIM BLEED. Thats better than what Darkseid did. Being able to hit spectre without knoweledge would have been a better feat had Spectre been known for reaction speed or dodging attack, which he is not. Spectre himself casually swatted away Darkseid's attacks what does that tell you.
Also here's the scan, notice the blood, its better than what Darkseid managed to do.
What i am trying to say here is, using post crisis Darkseid feats to show he was able to hurt Spectre or crack Imperix Armor to show its power is not a correct assessment, because Spectre wasnt really hurt or knocked out and Spectre has been hurt couple of time before, its just damn near close to impossible to KO spectre (Mandraxx for one has done it). Imperix, well you know the story.
1. It's true that the Power Gem has better feats. But it's also true that Champion was not using the full power of the Gem, which his match against Ben Grimm shows quite nicely. If he had been consciously pulling on the Gem's power, he would have taken out Ben Grimm with a single punch, just like he would have smashed through Thanos's force fields and knocked him flat, with a single punch. Taking Ben Grimm down in 3 rounds is not a low feat, it's a realistic one. Ben is tough as hell, and a good fighter. And the fact that he is able to go 3 rounds against Champion, despite the latter being augmented by a small part of the power from the Power Gem, is proof of that(I have, in the past, used that very feat to prove how tough a costumer Ben Grimm really is, when people bring up his low showings). But it also underlines the fact that Champion was, in fact, not using anywhere near the full power of the Gem. Which means that it is not an impressive feat for Thanos. The best that can be said about that feat, is that it proves Thanos' durability to a certain point. But he has far more impressive durability feats, so bringing up that feat in the first place, is simply a waste of time(and space).
2. Yes, Spectre allowing Batman to hit(kick) him, had everything to do with Batman hurting him and making him bleed. It was the host that was bleeding, due to Spectre allowing the injury in the first place. Why do you think Batman was so shocked about actually hitting(and hurting) the Spectre. On the other side of the spectrum(pun not intended), we have Darkseid, who actually managed to hit, and hurt(discomfort) Spectre on his own merits.
3. You keep talking about "cracking Imperiex's armor". If you actually read my initial post, I said nothing about that. I said "blasting imperiex", nothing about hurting him, let alone cracking his armor. And simply blasting Imperiex is, as unimpressive as it is, just as impressive of the Feat/scan posted of Thanos blasting Galactus.
Classic Darkseid was very powerful, he wins this without too much effort
However, he became weaker and weaker while Thanos grew stronger. In their current incarnations, Thanos wins but not classic versions
Darkseid has had a lot of low showings over the years fortunately a lot of those where retconned as avatars or Desaad in disguise for final crisis to try and remove the stench of villain decay.Not stomping around in crisis is because he was dying from his fight with Orion, he was just kicking around thanks to time travel hi-jinks. Even crisis wasn't suppose to have killed him that was originally going to be his fake death for the great darkness saga.
Darkseid is set to be the big bad of the first major event of the 52. I have a felling that he is the same Darkseid of post-flashpoint and that his purpose of coming to Earth at that time was to do something to Superman or something along those lines because outside of plot induced stupidity I can't think of any reason why he didn't crush GL's head instead of his arm and why he didn't just boom tube back.
My point is that if this all ties together it could be a brilliant master strategist move and tie together all previous incarnations of Darkseid.
I don't think the Power Gem scans are completely without feats. This fight states full strength, which to me means them with standard gear, fully rested, and with a clear mind. These scans show how well Thanos is at using his environment, his cunning, his phyiscal abilities (durability, reflexes, strength, etc.), and his technology to defeat an opponent he normally shouldn't be able to beat. We can say Champion wasn't using the Power Gem to it's full potential, but lets face it, when facing someone like that with the Power Gem, confronting them head on would just showcase a character's stupidity. I think this battle is a good showing of Thanos's combat skills that are unrelated to his strength.
Now, these scans I've ripped off other threads (I'm too lazy to find them in other places). But they are to showcase some of my points.
Durability: To me, this is Thanos's greatest physical stat. It may not sound like much, but Thanos can take a beating well above any other character I know.
Tanks a full blast from the Silver Surfer
Classic Odin vs. Thanos fight. I would overall declare Thanos the loser of this fight, regardless of what anybody says. However, Odin throws blast after blast in Thanos's direction, and he still emerges completely unharmed. I don't think he'd ever beat Odin in a fight, but he can tank shots like no other.
Strength, Combat Styles, and Reflexes: These things are not commonly shown, but they are there. Thanos has strength well above even the strongest Marvel Heroes, he also has the reflexes to contend with the fastest characters.
Thanos fights the Avengers quite often, and it goes like this more often than not! :D
Sorry, pieced this one together from a few different threads. This was just before the Odin incident, and it's him versus Thor. This version of Thor is afflicted with Warrior's Madness, and he is sporting the Power Gem. This is more impressive of a feat than the Champion vs. Thanos fight in my opinion. Thanos is thrashing him around, and tanking hit after hit (smiling all the while). Another good thing to look at here, is that his shield takes a pretty massive blow. It continues from where I ended this, but he goes on to pummel Thor and then Odin shows up and you know the rest.
He catches Silver Surfer before this scan, and this is him beating him dang near to death, effortlessly. Surfer was attempting a speed blitz (or at least he was charging head on pretty fast), and Thanos was fast enough to get him.
Summary: Honestly, if this is pure Hand to Hand, I think Thanos stands more than a decent chance to win this. He has fought with characters who have speed equal to or above Darkseid (he took a blitz from the Runner, and was capable of distracting him long enough to get the Space Gem). His shields were able to tank a decent sized blast from Galactus (they took ONE shot, and that ended up hurting him still, but it's Galactus and surviving a huge blast from him is impressive). He used cunning and great strategy to get his hands on all the IG gems, a lot of them from beings well above his levels. This is a pretty fair match-up to be completely honest. I don't know if he would take the majority, but I think he could pull 5/10. Darkseid might beat Thanos in strength, I'm not going to debate this. However, I do think Thanos has a greater degree of durability (much greater), and I think his blows will be equally effective against Darkseid as Darkseid's blows will be against him.
@Almighty_Darkseid: What do you mean Thanos looks nothing like Metron? Their costumes are dang near identical, and when Thanos is sitting in that chair, he looks like a buff purple Metron with a wrinkly chin! Thanos is also quite a bit different than Darkseid in personality, and though they have a similar power set, that power set is pretty much standard in both universes (Super Strength, Invulnerability, Regeneration, Super Speed, Enhanced Reflexes, Eye Beams, Energy Blasts, etc. I just described like 90% of all top tier heroes and villains!).
I doubt this will be an easy fight for either competitor. A regular fight with these two is a good match, and pure hand to hand is equally fair. And no, I do not consider IG to be Thanos's standard equipment, or think that it's fair to consider that him at full power (I think it's ridiculous when people automatically assume that Thanos gets the IG when he is in a battle).
I don't think the Power Gem scans are completely without feats. This fight states full strength, which to me means them with standard gear, fully rested, and with a clear mind. These scans show how well Thanos is at using his environment, his cunning, his phyiscal abilities (durability, reflexes, strength, etc.), and his technology to defeat an opponent he normally shouldn't be able to beat. We can say Champion wasn't using the Power Gem to it's full potential, but lets face it, when facing someone like that with the Power Gem, confronting them head on would just showcase a character's stupidity. I think this battle is a good showing of Thanos's combat skills that are unrelated to his strength.
Now, these scans I've ripped off other threads (I'm too lazy to find them in other places). But they are to showcase some of my points.
Durability: To me, this is Thanos's greatest physical stat. It may not sound like much, but Thanos can take a beating well above any other character I know.
Tanks a full blast from the Silver Surfer
Classic Odin vs. Thanos fight. I would overall declare Thanos the loser of this fight, regardless of what anybody says. However, Odin throws blast after blast in Thanos's direction, and he still emerges completely unharmed. I don't think he'd ever beat Odin in a fight, but he can tank shots like no other.
Strength, Combat Styles, and Reflexes: These things are not commonly shown, but they are there. Thanos has strength well above even the strongest Marvel Heroes, he also has the reflexes to contend with the fastest characters.
Thanos fights the Avengers quite often, and it goes like this more often than not! :D
Sorry, pieced this one together from a few different threads. This was just before the Odin incident, and it's him versus Thor. This version of Thor is afflicted with Warrior's Madness, and he is sporting the Power Gem. This is more impressive of a feat than the Champion vs. Thanos fight in my opinion. Thanos is thrashing him around, and tanking hit after hit (smiling all the while). Another good thing to look at here, is that his shield takes a pretty massive blow. It continues from where I ended this, but he goes on to pummel Thor and then Odin shows up and you know the rest.
He catches Silver Surfer before this scan, and this is him beating him dang near to death, effortlessly. Surfer was attempting a speed blitz (or at least he was charging head on pretty fast), and Thanos was fast enough to get him.
Summary: Honestly, if this is pure Hand to Hand, I think Thanos stands more than a decent chance to win this. He has fought with characters who have speed equal to or above Darkseid (he took a blitz from the Runner, and was capable of distracting him long enough to get the Space Gem). His shields were able to tank a decent sized blast from Galactus (they took ONE shot, and that ended up hurting him still, but it's Galactus and surviving a huge blast from him is impressive). He used cunning and great strategy to get his hands on all the IG gems, a lot of them from beings well above his levels. This is a pretty fair match-up to be completely honest. I don't know if he would take the majority, but I think he could pull 5/10. Darkseid might beat Thanos in strength, I'm not going to debate this. However, I do think Thanos has a greater degree of durability (much greater), and I think his blows will be equally effective against Darkseid as Darkseid's blows will be against him.
@Almighty_Darkseid: What do you mean Thanos looks nothing like Metron? Their costumes are dang near identical, and when Thanos is sitting in that chair, he looks like a buff purple Metron with a wrinkly chin! Thanos is also quite a bit different than Darkseid in personality, and though they have a similar power set, that power set is pretty much standard in both universes (Super Strength, Invulnerability, Regeneration, Super Speed, Enhanced Reflexes, Eye Beams, Energy Blasts, etc. I just described like 90% of all top tier heroes and villains!).
I doubt this will be an easy fight for either competitor. A regular fight with these two is a good match, and pure hand to hand is equally fair. And no, I do not consider IG to be Thanos's standard equipment, or think that it's fair to consider that him at full power (I think it's ridiculous when people automatically assume that Thanos gets the IG when he is in a battle).
I dunno, maybe it's the hood (cowl?). Maybe it's the blue. It's probably the chair. But honestly, seeing those two in their chairs scheming, just seems remarkably close in appearance to me. Don't get me wrong, I see your point. But realistically look at those two, scheming in their thrones...
Even if Thanos WAS Darkseid's equal, he'd still lose. Why? Because that's what Thanos does. He runs into a good fight, his insecurity complex gets him, he decides he's undeserving and undermines himself. It's always been a terrible escape clause and points right at how poorly the character was thought out. "He's so powerful that the only way he loses is if he tries to lose" has to be the weakest plot loophole there is, either that or its bunk
It is "bunk", because that's not how it works at all. Thanos' "insecurity complex" was only used to justify his losing in 3 cases; when he had all the soul gems and was about to destroy every star in the universe, when he had the Cosmic Cube, and when he had the Infinity Gauntlet. Instances in which he was about to basically wipe out life as we know it on a universal scale and could not reasonably be stopped by any known force at the time, yet "miraculously" lost anyway. What Starlin wound up doing was taking these defeats and used them to reveal a character flaw in Thanos, rather than the immensely cliched "heroes magically triumph over literally impossible odds yet again" line. Whether or not you like what Starlin decided to do, it is at least a little different from what we've seen a million times before.
Essentially, it only applies to ultimate victory, not just any victory. It has never interfered with Thanos' personal battles, and he has in fact beaten many characters before, and even when he did have the Infinity Gauntlet, he had no problem slaughtering earth's heroes and crushing all the abstracts, including his love Mistress Death, and Eternity. He did not lose the Gauntlet until after he defeated everyone who challenged him, not before.
Moreover, I cannot recall this little problem of his being an issue at any point after the Infinity Gauntlet Saga, when he became more of an anti-hero. For all intents and purposes, he apparently got over it after Warlock told him what was going on and he gave up attempting outright universal domination. The only time it would have even likely been an issue would have been during "The End," but he won there too, defeating every being in Marvel continuity, including the Living Tribunal, before giving up the HotU.
So no, Thanos' psychological issues are not going to be a problem in a fight with someone like Darkseid. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but have you actually read many Thanos issues? Because your interpretation of the character seems pretty flawed to me, and much more like something I would expect from someone who has mainly heard about the character from others.
@SirMethos said:
3. You keep talking about "cracking Imperiex's armor". If you actually read my initial post, I said nothing about that. I said "blasting imperiex", nothing about hurting him, let alone cracking his armor. And simply blasting Imperiex is, as unimpressive as it is, just as impressive of the Feat/scan posted of Thanos blasting Galactus.
I disagree, I think the Spectre feat is the one comparable to the Galactus feat, not the Imperiex feat. Anyone can "blast" anyone else. Human Torch and Iron Man have blasted Galactus, Silver Surfer has blasted Tyrant, Thor has blasted Celestials, etc. None of it means anything. Darkseid's attack on Imperiex was not shown to have any effect whatsoever on its own, and the fact that it was part of a multipronged attack involving Kismet means it is basically impossible to determine how much it may or may not have done (although we do know that his Omega Effect had no discernible affect on the Entropy Aegis, which was a retrofitted Imperiex Probe).
On the other hand, Darkseid did have some effect on the Spectre (though minimal, and he was easily crushed shortly afterwards). Likewise, Thanos had some effect on Galactus (though minimal, and he was easily crushed shortly afterwards, though not as badly).
Essentially, my arguments is simply that doing something to Galactus is better than doing nothing to Imperiex. Even simply knocking Galactus through a wall and pissing him off is better than most characters could pull off with raw power. Conversely, just about anyone could blast Imperiex with no effect.
thanos stomps HARD. he was able to contend with spider-man, and even survived a KICK, yes a KICK. that puts his durablity at god like levels. of course, spider-man was just playing with his prey, but still
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