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#1 Posted by slacker the hacker (7839 posts) - - Show Bio

No prep

Classic Destroyer at it's best levels

Win by death/knockout/surrender

No knowledge of each other

Morals off

Fight takes place in Asgard

VS

#2 Edited by Mr_Winchester (708 posts) - - Show Bio

Destroyer wins. His armour cant be smashed, and thats the only thing Juggs has. The only way to beat destroyer is on a spiritual level by removing the host.

#3 Posted by TifaLockhart (14051 posts) - - Show Bio

Destroyer's destroyed Mjolnir before. He wins.

#4 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut wins.

#5 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

Juggernaut wins.

#6 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

Destroyer's destroyed Mjolnir before. He wins.

#7 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

There isn't really a way for Juggs to beat Destroyer,

all he can do is smash and it will just reform.

Really I am going to call a stalemate on this one.

#8 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

There isn't really a way for Juggs to beat Destroyer,

all he can do is smash and it will just reform.

Really I am going to call a stalemate on this one.

All he can do is smash? What about his spells?

#9 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

...

what spells?

this is regular Juggernaut

#10 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

...

what spells?

this is regular Juggernaut

Yes, regular Juggernaut. Like this one.

#11 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Ok sweet, I fail to see how that is going to stop the Destroyer.

#12 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Also Destroyer has defenses against magic.

#13 Posted by Freefa11 (2389 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate. Both have durability that is disproportionately high compared to their strength, so I don't think either will be able to damage the other, nor will either ever get tired. If anything, since "surrender" is an option, the Destroyer will eventually win due to Juggernaut becoming profoundly bored and giving up, whereas the Destroyer will never get tired of smashing.

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Juggernaut has no spells, he only ever had them for a single issue before Oblivion took them from him permanently, and you know that damn well.

#14 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Also Destroyer has defenses against magic.

So does Nightmare, that's how he defeated Strange, but despite that fact, when Strange summoned Juggernaut to protect him, Nightmare was having severe complications defending himself against Juggernaut's magic.

#15 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

How often does Juggernaut use spells?

not very often, and even if he does so in this match, it is very possible that Destroyer will reform from any damage Juggs cares to throw out.

#16 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

How often does Juggernaut use spells?

not very often, and even if he does so in this match, it is very possible that Destroyer will reform from any damage Juggs cares to throw out.

Only when he fights someone that is around abstract level, like Nightmare. He used a few of his spells too to open portals up to escape from Oblivion's realm, but after awhile Oblivion kept on sucking him back up into Outer Void. But while in Outer Void, Oblivion couldn't delete Juggernaut from existence and made a truths to Juggernaut that he will leave him alone for the exchange of his "knowledge" of spells. Spells that can always be re-learned or passed down onto him by Cyttorak. (That's what the Cyttorak trials are for).

#17 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

My point is that the feat is rare enough to be considered out of character for him.

And the OP didn't state that the combatants are out of character.

#18 Edited by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

My point is that the feat is rare enough to be considered out of character for him.

And the OP didn't state that the combatants are out of character.

It's completely within character, because when someone "becomes" the avatar of Cyttorak, that being transforms into the Juggernaut. A walking nexus of 12.5% of one aspect that is known as physical interacting magic. "A" Juggernaut is a walking Crimson Bands of the Crimson Cosmos.

So his very existence is a magical spell and he can use that power in whatever regards he wishes, but Cain being a fan of "physical power" normally uses it for just that. However, under only odd particular circumstances, he uses his power in a variety of different ways. For example, you can't use physical power on something that is abstract. Like he can not punch a ghost in the face, so he would have to result in a different method and that method is by converting his power into something else or invoking power directly from Cyttorak (which IS out of character because Cain doesn't worship anyone) So Cain doesn't directly invoke spells from Cyttorak like Dr. Strange and Dormammu does. He uses what is already given to him and that is the power of the Gem (12.5% of one aspect of Cyttorak's Crimson Bands)

#19 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

When Cain is looking to "level up" and learn new abilities, he is forced to take a Trail that tests his determination of gaining that new ability. Most of the time, these trails have him facing an aspect of Cyttorak in test of Will power.

#20 Posted by Freefa11 (2389 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles: Juggernaut doesn't have spells. He had them for only one issue (in the 70's, I think), and in his very next appearance they were permanently removed by Oblivion and have never come back (or at least, anytime anyone brings them up, the only scans they ever use are from the Nightmare fight). Bringing up his magic the way 7am did would be like someone casually asking "what about Thanos' Cosmic Cube?" when they know full well it was broken ages ago and he's never gotten another one since (not a working one, anyway). And Thanos actually had the Cube longer than Juggernaut had his spells, yet people still have no problem realizing that Cosmic Cubes are not a normal part of his arsenal.

#21 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11: Ok thank you that is what I thought

#22 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Odd occasions are not in character.

#23 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Odd occasions are not in character.

Do you know what that term even means? It means he can do what ever he wants with the power that is given to him. When he fought Nightmare, it WAS in character that he used magic because Nightmare can not be physically harmed. When Dr. Strange uses Kung-Fu, do you call that out of character??? It's not, because he had to learn kung-fu before Ancient One can teach him magic. Is it out of character when Storm walks when she can fly? Is it out of character when Spiderman crawls when he can swing on webs? Juggernaut has the power and he can do whatever he wants with it.

#24 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

My point is that the feat is rare enough to be considered out of character for him.

And the OP didn't state that the combatants are out of character.

It's completely within character, because when someone "becomes" the avatar of Cyttorak, that being transforms into the Juggernaut. A walking nexus of 12.5% of one aspect that is known as physical interacting magic. "A" Juggernaut is a walking Crimson Bands of the Crimson Cosmos.

So his very existence is a magical spell and he can use that power in whatever regards he wishes, but Cain being a fan of "physical power" normally uses it for just that. However, under only odd particular circumstances, he uses his power in a variety of different ways. For example, you can't use physical power on something that is abstract. Like he can not punch a ghost in the face, so he would have to result in a different method and that method is by converting his power into something else or invoking power directly from Cyttorak (which IS out of character because Cain doesn't worship anyone) So Cain doesn't directly invoke spells from Cyttorak like Dr. Strange and Dormammu does. He uses what is already given to him and that is the power of the Gem (12.5% of one aspect of Cyttorak's Crimson Bands)

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

How often does Juggernaut use spells?

not very often, and even if he does so in this match, it is very possible that Destroyer will reform from any damage Juggs cares to throw out.

Only when he fights someone that is around abstract level, like Nightmare. He used a few of his spells too to open portals up to escape from Oblivion's realm, but after awhile Oblivion kept on sucking him back up into Outer Void. But while in Outer Void, Oblivion couldn't delete Juggernaut from existence and made a truths to Juggernaut that he will leave him alone for the exchange of his "knowledge" of spells. Spells that can always be re-learned or passed down onto him by Cyttorak. (That's what the Cyttorak trials are for).

When Cain is looking to "level up" and learn new abilities, he is forced to take a Trail that tests his determination of gaining that new ability. Most of the time, these trails have him facing an aspect of Cyttorak in test of Will power.

#25 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: You clearly do not understand what out of character means.

If a character does something one time it is considered out of character for him to do it again.

Everything you named for the other characters have been done by that character on any one of a dozen occasions.

I mean have you even been on this forum?

#26 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: You clearly do not understand what out of character means.

If a character does something one time it is considered out of character for him to do it again.

Everything you named for the other characters have been done by that character on any one of a dozen occasions.

I mean have you even been on this forum?

If we go by that logic, then that would mean Thor goes out of character opening up portals with his hammer to defeat Juggernaut out of odd circumstances. Juggernaut HAD to use magic against Nightmare, because magic is the only way to deal with him. If Nightmare challenged Juggernaut again, Juggernaut would still have to resort to magic just as Thor would have to resort to opening up a portal to BFR dump any villian that is immune to physical damage.

#27 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

No because Thor has done that more than once.

#28 Posted by whydama (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

Its a draw.

Neither of them can hurt each other

#29 Posted by crabtree (1623 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

There isn't really a way for Juggs to beat Destroyer,

all he can do is smash and it will just reform.

Really I am going to call a stalemate on this one.

#30 Posted by Shuma-Gorath (433 posts) - - Show Bio

I shall tell you a truth, little motes - - there is no way for Juggernaut to win!

#31 Posted by Owie (3743 posts) - - Show Bio

Destroyer will ultimately take him down.

But, if we really want to make this about who powers Juggs, it's an interesting question to ask: which is more powerful, 12.5% of Cytorrak, or the entirety of the Asgardian gods' power?

#32 Posted by OneDoesNotSimplyWalkIntoMordor (117 posts) - - Show Bio

One does not simply defeat the Juggernaut without battle field removal and one does not simply have Destroyer become animate without a soul to empower it.

@Owie said:

Destroyer will ultimately take him down.

But, if we really want to make this about who powers Juggs, it's an interesting question to ask: which is more powerful, 12.5% of Cytorrak, or the entirety of the Asgardian gods' power?

12.5% of which aspect of Cyttorak, might I inquiry. He has a few too many so if you would be kind to clarify which one of the aspects.

#33 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut is too strong and he can teleport.

#34 Posted by Owie (3743 posts) - - Show Bio

@OneDoesNotSimplyWalkIntoMordor said:

One does not simply defeat the Juggernaut without battle field removal and one does not simply have Destroyer become animate without a soul to empower it.

@Owie said:

Destroyer will ultimately take him down.

But, if we really want to make this about who powers Juggs, it's an interesting question to ask: which is more powerful, 12.5% of Cytorrak, or the entirety of the Asgardian gods' power?

12.5% of which aspect of Cyttorak, might I inquiry. He has a few too many so if you would be kind to clarify which one of the aspects.

The Destroyer can manipulate matter and its disintegration beam is able to destroy uru, so I think he's got at least a decent chance of taking out Juggs straight out. Not quickly, but his total offensive powers exceed Juggernaut's, and his durability is about as great, so over time I'm taking him for the win.

Juggs is capable of being beaten by physical force--see for instance when the Thing, amped by Mephisto to 100x his normal strength, took him out. He was also beaten by Nimrod, who is way less powerful than Destroyer, although somewhat more versatile. Thor has done pretty well against Juggernaut, and Destroyer is more powerful than Thor in strength and durability and energy projection.

And if not, yes he can BFR him by, for instance, melting the ground under his feet. Or throwing him into space. Although I see that BFR is not allowed in this fight, so oh well.

The OP states that this is "classic Destroyer at its best levels," which I take to mean the time that Odin animated it with his and all the other Asgardians' power. If it was the Destroyer at its best levels ever (i.e. not just classic) I would say the Galactus-seed Destroyer in the recent Mighty Thor was even more powerful than the all-Asgardian version, as the Galactus-seed version intimidated Galactus to teh degree that Galactus stopped attacking Asgard further. So, just in terms of Destroyer's overall potential, it's clear that if it can scare off Galactus, then it has at least the power potential to beat Juggernaut. Destroyer may not be powered up at that level here, but it's a good illustration of its potential.

And it's 12.5% of his entire power, as I understand it. Ask a Cytorrakian (like 7am), if you want more info! But I'm betting that the total amount of power at the disposal of CLASSIC Destroyer is more than the power at the total amount of power at the disposal of CLASSIC Juggernaut.

#35 Posted by pooty (11202 posts) - - Show Bio

@Owie: adding to what you said, Juggs was KO'ed by a human host of the Uni-Power and by Onslaught. Destroyer wins this

#36 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@Owie: adding to what you said, Juggs was KO'ed by a human host of the Uni-Power and by Onslaught. Destroyer wins this

Ko'ed by telepathy. The Onslaught event was also telepathy.

#37 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

The Destroyer.

#38 Posted by TifaLockhart (14051 posts) - - Show Bio

Venom made him see stars. Professor Hulk knocked the wind out of him. Nightcrawler hurt him with candles to the eyes...

#39 Posted by pooty (11202 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@pooty said:

@Owie: adding to what you said, Juggs was KO'ed by a human host of the Uni-Power and by Onslaught. Destroyer wins this

Ko'ed by telepathy. The Onslaught event was also telepathy.

Where did it state it was telepathy? I know he was thrown on both occasions. And wolverine hurt him with a claw through the eye.

#40 Posted by TifaLockhart (14051 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar did too, albeit with a blade.

#41 Posted by pooty (11202 posts) - - Show Bio

So Juggs has been hurt by street levelers and KO'ed by cosmic level beings. This Destroyer is at his strongest. What is the weakest being to hurt the Destroyer at his strongest?

#42 Posted by TifaLockhart (14051 posts) - - Show Bio

Odinforce Thor, in an alternate future.

Otherwise, you're looking at Celestials.

#43 Posted by AlanisMorissette (80 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL!

#44 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7184 posts) - - Show Bio

the sasquatch has also hurt the Juggernaut. Thor broke his helmet and kicked his ass in under 60 seconds without the hammer after he took away Juggernaut's sheild with his hammer. The Destroyer has split the Hammer in half and was Built buy Odin ith the help off other skyfather's. the Destroyer for the win here.

#45 Posted by slacker the hacker (7839 posts) - - Show Bio

@Thor's hammmer said:

the sasquatch has also hurt the Juggernaut. Thor broke his helmet and kicked his ass in under 60 seconds without the hammer after he took away Juggernaut's sheild with his hammer. The Destroyer has split the Hammer in half and was Built buy Odin ith the help off other skyfather's. the Destroyer for the win here.

Perhaps 8th Day Juggs would have been better

#46 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7184 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker the hacker said:

@Thor's hammmer said:

the sasquatch has also hurt the Juggernaut. Thor broke his helmet and kicked his ass in under 60 seconds without the hammer after he took away Juggernaut's sheild with his hammer. The Destroyer has split the Hammer in half and was Built buy Odin ith the help off other skyfather's. the Destroyer for the win here.

Perhaps 8th Day Juggs would have been better

most likely Thor was apparently still strong enough to fight 8th day juggs and block his punches and even match his strength for a little but in the end lost. i still think the Destroyer mught take that battle though.

#47 Posted by Vendel (352 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

So Juggs has been hurt by street levelers and KO'ed by cosmic level beings. This Destroyer is at his strongest. What is the weakest being to hurt the Destroyer at his strongest?

I didn't realize the destroyer was a telepath. And does it carry some magical blades I was not aware of?

#48 Edited by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker the hacker said:

@Thor's hammmer said:

the sasquatch has also hurt the Juggernaut. Thor broke his helmet and kicked his ass in under 60 seconds without the hammer after he took away Juggernaut's sheild with his hammer. The Destroyer has split the Hammer in half and was Built buy Odin ith the help off other skyfather's. the Destroyer for the win here.

Perhaps 8th Day Juggs would have been better

They're the same thing. The term 8th Day is just a nick name citing to that arc.

Power percentage granted by the Gem:

  • 0.5 - 5% = The Juggernaut that fought with King Hyprion
  • 10 - 20% = the original Normal Juggernaut (morals on / making jokes and cracking insults)
  • 20 - 30% = the original Juggernaut (morals on / serious:::: 1st Day Juggernaut)
  • 30 - 40% = the original Juggernaut (morals on / angry::: 8th Day Juggernaut)
  • 40 - 50% = the original Juggernaut (morals on / hate is starting to kick in)
  • 50 - 60% = the original Juggernaut (morals slowly giving away)
  • 60 - 70% = the original Juggernaut (morals are at critical condition, Cain is loosing his mind)
  • 70 - 80% = the original Juggernaut (morals are off = Trion Juggernaut)
  • 80 - 90% = the original Juggernaut (bloodlusted = Trion Juggernaut getting bigger as he tears through realities)
  • 90 - 100% = the original Juggernaut (bloodlusted Cyttorak possessed Juggernaut with only 1/8 [12.5% Crimson Bands Aspect] of the power of the Gem.)
#49 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Thor's hammmer said:

@slacker the hacker said:

@Thor's hammmer said:

the sasquatch has also hurt the Juggernaut. Thor broke his helmet and kicked his ass in under 60 seconds without the hammer after he took away Juggernaut's sheild with his hammer. The Destroyer has split the Hammer in half and was Built buy Odin ith the help off other skyfather's. the Destroyer for the win here.

Perhaps 8th Day Juggs would have been better

most likely Thor was apparently still strong enough to fight 8th day juggs and block his punches and even match his strength for a little but in the end lost. i still think the Destroyer mught take that battle though.

That was 1st Day ((FISRT DAY before the contest of Exemplars)) that Thor lost to.

#50 Posted by slacker the hacker (7839 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@slacker the hacker said:

@Thor's hammmer said:

the sasquatch has also hurt the Juggernaut. Thor broke his helmet and kicked his ass in under 60 seconds without the hammer after he took away Juggernaut's sheild with his hammer. The Destroyer has split the Hammer in half and was Built buy Odin ith the help off other skyfather's. the Destroyer for the win here.

Perhaps 8th Day Juggs would have been better

They're the same thing. The term 8th Day is just a nick name citing to that arc.

Power percentage granted by the Gem:

  • 0.5 - 5% = The Juggernaut that fought with King Hyprion
  • 10 - 20% = the original Normal Juggernaut (morals on / making jokes and cracking insults)
  • 20 - 30% = the original Juggernaut (morals on / serious:::: 1st Day Juggernaut)
  • 30 - 40% = the original Juggernaut (morals on / angry::: 8th Day Juggernaut)
  • 40 - 50% = the original Juggernaut (morals on / hate is starting to kick in)
  • 50 - 60% = the original Juggernaut (morals slowly giving away)
  • 60 - 70% = the original Juggernaut (morals are at critical condition, Cain is loosing his mind)
  • 70 - 80% = the original Juggernaut (morals are off = Trion Juggernaut)
  • 80 - 90% = the original Juggernaut (bloodlusted = Trion Juggernaut getting bigger as he tears through realities)
  • 90 - 100% = the original Juggernaut (bloodlusted Cyttorak possessed Juggernaut with only 1/8 [12.5% Crimson Bands Aspect] of the power of the Gem.)

I know but saying 8Th Day is a lot more easy then saying 30 - 40% = the original Juggernaut (morals on / angry: