the only way to beat the juggernaut is through bfr so yes. demogorge can beat juggernaut. the question is how long can he keep juggernaut out of the battle field before he can come back.
" The only way to beat the juggernaut is through bfr so yes. demogorge can beat juggernaut. the question is how long can he keep juggernaut out of the battle field before he can come back. "
Demogorge kills Juggernaut then uses the jem to travel to the crimson cosmos where he proceeds to Devour Cyttork.
/Spite
"
This. "
Are you guys sure he can beat Cyttorak? "
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him. chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power.. when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.
now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal. this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.
set = demogorge set = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better) cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of them
juggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.
imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power.
Demogorge kills Juggernaut then uses the jem to travel to the crimson cosmos where he proceeds to Devour Cyttork.
/Spite
"
This. "
Are you guys sure he can beat Cyttorak? "
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him. chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power.. when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal. this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.set = demogorgeset = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better)cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of themjuggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power. "
First off he defeated Set, Chthon and is the most powerful of all the elder Gods. try reading some comic books. If you think somehow Cyttorak is more powerful than any of them prove it. Juggernaut is a complete joke while compared to Wanda from house of M.
Secondly you made everything you just posted up, have no scans to prove any of it and everything you posted were lies or pure speculation at best.
Demogorge kills Juggernaut then uses the jem to travel to the crimson cosmos where he proceeds to Devour Cyttork.
/Spite
"
This. "
Are you guys sure he can beat Cyttorak? "
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him. chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power.. when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal. this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.set = demogorgeset = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better)cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of themjuggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power. "
First off he defeated Set, Chthon and is the most powerful of all the elder Gods. try reading some comic books. If you think somehow Cyttorak is more powerful than any of them prove it. Juggernaut is a complete joke while compared to Wanda from house of M.
Secondly you made everything you just posted up, have no scans to prove any of it and everything you posted were lies or pure speculation at best.
You should stay on the Fan-Fic forums for real.
"
You are not right. Dspeir with power to CONTROL The Universe wasnt able to kill Juggernaut. Thors Godblast wasnt able to hurt Juggernaut. Juggernaut knocked Stranger out (!) and withstood his attacks. And thats not all his feats.
When Juggernaut got only ONE aspect of Cyttoraks power, he began to DESTROY demensions and demensional barriers. Thats impressive, doesnt it?
@CapitolPunishment said:
"
Here is another scan of Thor cutting off Cyttork's power to Juggs and beating him down. Cyttork=hyperbole
So much for Cyttork's magic being unstoppible ey?
"
In that comic Thor cut off Juggernauts force-field, not his powers. And he managed to do that only for 60 seconds. You dont know much about Juggernaut and Cyttorak, dont you?
Demogorge kills Juggernaut then uses the jem to travel to the crimson cosmos where he proceeds to Devour Cyttork.
/Spite "
This. "
Are you guys sure he can beat Cyttorak? "
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him. chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power.. when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal. this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.set = demogorgeset = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better)cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of themjuggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power. "
i am sorry but there is so many wrong info from your post..
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him.
Cyttorak has never faced either Set or Chthon, much more the one who slew them.. the Demogorge chased Set and Chthon away from Earth Dimension billions of years ago.. Cyttorak was banished from Earth thousand of years ago.. Cyttorak never wipped any deities of Earth.. he himself was banish along with the rest of the Octessence that is the reason why they created temples and items which holds their power.. in Cyttorak's case, it was the Temple of Cyttorak in Korea and the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak.. Chthon at this time has been inside his realm, unable to escape due to his own immense power and the interventions of Gaea and the Vishanti..
Gallery
chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power..
lol.. Chthon never lost his powers.. that is the very reason why he cannot escape his own realm for there is no inter-dimensional rift that can contain the powers within him.. Chthon's influence on earth faded due to the pact created by sorcerers to create a lie that there is no God of Chaos, and that there is no Chaos Magic.. the Vishanti also took effort to counter his remaining influence on Earth by creating the Book of the Vishanti to serve as the opposing power to the dreaded Darkhold, a tome of great magic created by Chthon which has caused so much evil throughout history.. Cyttorak never set foot on Earth after being exiled.. Wanda's birth never restored Chthon's powers as they were never gone in the first place.. during the 6th century, Morgan Le Fay, and the cult of the Darkholders attempted to summon Chthon back on Earth.. upon his manifestation, they realized that a being of his power can never be controlled by any mortal means.. the greatest sorcerers of that era combined their powers to banish him back only to discover that they cannot.. so they just imprisoned his essence in a mountain later known as Mt. Wundagore.. the mountain later became the fortress of the High Evolutionary.. Gregor Russoff then used the Darkhold in an attempt to summon Chthon but failed to control him is essence.. Chthon summoned the Other to act in his behalf and it fought the High Evolutionary and the Knight of Wundagore.. at the same time, Magda, Magneto's wife was currently giving birth to the twins Pietro and Wanda.. the spirit of Magnus entered Russoff, used the Darkhold and sacrificed himself to banish Chthon back.. but before Chthon was completely banished, he blessed the newborn Wanda Maximoff a minuscule portion of his power and the ability to wield Chaos Magic which is the basis for Chthon unholy might.. it was Chthon who gave the Scarlet Witch the power to manipulate Chaos Magic, which later allowed her to alter reality in a multiversal/omniversal scale.. Wanda has nothing to do with the level of Chthon's powers.. Chthon simply sees her as the next vessel for his demonic majesty..
Gallery
when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal.
OMG!!! this is complete blasphemy of Marvel's history.. Cyttorak NEVER influenced Earth.. and Chthon never wanted Cyttorak's power since as an Elder God, the supreme-most being of the dark arts who's minuscule fraction of his power allowed the Scarlet Witch to alter reality beyond recognition, feared by Eternity himself, he is clearly more powerful than Cyttorak.. Wanda never got free of Chthon's influence over her.. the Avengers, not the X-Men, only managed to exorcise Chthon's essence which took possession of Wanda.. Set and Chthon fled from the Demogorge back then simply because it is powered by the entire race of Elder Gods which it devoured.. and the Demogorge never reverted back to Atum and escaped to the sun to heal.. i'm sorry, but your story is outlandish..
this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.set = demogorgeset = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better)cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of themjuggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power. "
i'm sorry but your post proves nothing as it is 100% FALSE.. a regular powered Demogorge was stalemated by Set.. Set needed the aid of Gaea and Oshtur to banish Chthon.. Chthon has created his own Demogorge.. Nightmare was just Shuma-Gorath's servant.. Shuma-Gorath was stalemated by the Vishanti.. the Vishanti has been doing all they can to prevent Chthon's influence and release.. Cyttorak was chased away in exile from Earth thousands of years ago, epochs after the fall of the Elder Gods..
@lord_oraculous016: Thank you for correcting that load of lies that Lance posted.
If you have the time you take look through his posts and the supposed encounters the LT has had with Shuma-Gorath and Cyttork that Lance claims LT lost badly.. lol
Demogorge kills Juggernaut then uses the jem to travel to the crimson cosmos where he proceeds to Devour Cyttork.
/Spite
"
This. "
Are you guys sure he can beat Cyttorak? "
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him. chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power.. when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal. this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.set = demogorgeset = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better)cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of themjuggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power. "
First off he defeated Set, Chthon and is the most powerful of all the elder Gods. try reading some comic books. If you think somehow Cyttorak is more powerful than any of them prove it. Juggernaut is a complete joke while compared to Wanda from house of M.
Secondly you made everything you just posted up, have no scans to prove any of it and everything you posted were lies or pure speculation at best.
You should stay on the Fan-Fic forums for real.
"
You are not right. Dspeir with power to CONTROL The Universe wasnt able to kill Juggernaut. Thors Godblast wasnt able to hurt Juggernaut. Juggernaut knocked Stranger out (!) and withstood his attacks. And thats not all his feats.
When Juggernaut got only ONE aspect of Cyttoraks power, he began to DESTROY demensions and demensional barriers. Thats impressive, doesnt it?
@CapitolPunishment said:
"
Here is another scan of Thor cutting off Cyttork's power to Juggs and beating him down. Cyttork=hyperbole
So much for Cyttork's magic being unstoppible ey?
"
In that comic Thor cut off Juggernauts force-field, not his powers. And he managed to do that only for 60 seconds. You dont know much about Juggernaut and Cyttorak, dont you? "
WTF are you talking about, Juggernaut's invulneribility is his most powerful attribute by far, go read some comics with him in it before you babble that non-sense. I was showing that Thor was able to take that away, what do you think the most powerful elder god would do?
@lord_oraculous016: Thank you for correcting that load of lies that Lance posted.
If you have the time you take look through his posts and the supposed encounters the LT has had with Shuma-Gorath and Cyttork that Lance claims LT lost badly.. lol
"
you're welcome.. glad i could shed light into this.. the story was just horrible, purely self-made.. LT and Shuma-Gorath fighting? i don't recall that ever happening..
@lord_oraculous016: everything you said proves my point. that you don't know the origin of cyttorak.
i know that you get your information about the elder gods through the mystic arcana. i even know that you know that is considered fan fiction and not completely accurate towards the origin of marvel's.
so comparing my theory with the theory of someone else is moot is it not?
however, both you and i do agree that both of us do not really know the true origin and extent of cyttorak and his powers, correct?
but you see, this is were the problem lies. that since cyttorak has virtually no feats, you claim him no credibility. ---at all.....
where i see the featless features through other parts of the marvel continuity.
and from those feats that i see, i can clearly see that cyttorak will and can over power demogorge with so much ease.
capitol punish is jus another one of those closed minded opinion based people.
at least with you, i can feel that you might have some imagination to open up your mind.
you like the elder gods, i can see that... so you can understand that magic is not explainable so why try to debate with it using a, b, c logic.
why debate about magic at all?
well i know why? it's because you are curious!
you want someone to challenge you to MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND about the things unknown to you.
and i am challenging you.
ever since the debate of mikaboshi you never given me any clear argument as to why cyttorak couldn't defeat mikaboshi. no body couldn't.
all ive gotten was just opinions and no body even tried to speculate save you.
speculations???
isn't that the only thing we can do concerning cyttorak?
the answer is yes.
anything concerning magic is open for speculation. that is a fact.
so you still need to come up with a way to disprove how and why cyttorak can and has influenced the continuity of marvel from the 1st day he was published to the days of the infinity sagas to the trion.
i don't need to read your history lesson because frankly, i already know of it. all i'm asking is for you to open your mind up and USE your imagination to come up with a more satisfying method as to why cyttorak will loose to demogorge.
there is a reason why stan lee created cyttorak and i'm just waiting for you to see that reason.
Demogorge kills Juggernaut then uses the jem to travel to the crimson cosmos where he proceeds to Devour Cyttork.
/Spite
"
This. "
Are you guys sure he can beat Cyttorak? "
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him. chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power.. when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal. this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.set = demogorgeset = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better)cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of themjuggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power. "
Idk, Classic Juggs not only had his ultra godly superhuman qualityies but at times he would have weird magical bursts of TP, energy beams, walking on air and water etc etc. What are some of Demo's feats? I heard he ate elder gods but then I also heard he lost to Thor.
Demogorge kills Juggernaut then uses the jem to travel to the crimson cosmos where he proceeds to Devour Cyttork.
/Spite
"
This. "
Are you guys sure he can beat Cyttorak? "
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him. chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power.. when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal. this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.set = demogorgeset = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better)cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of themjuggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power. "
First off he defeated Set, Chthon and is the most powerful of all the elder Gods. try reading some comic books. If you think somehow Cyttorak is more powerful than any of them prove it. Juggernaut is a complete joke while compared to Wanda from house of M.
Secondly you made everything you just posted up, have no scans to prove any of it and everything you posted were lies or pure speculation at best.
You should stay on the Fan-Fic forums for real.
"
You are not right. Dspeir with power to CONTROL The Universe wasnt able to kill Juggernaut. Thors Godblast wasnt able to hurt Juggernaut. Juggernaut knocked Stranger out (!) and withstood his attacks. And thats not all his feats.
When Juggernaut got only ONE aspect of Cyttoraks power, he began to DESTROY demensions and demensional barriers. Thats impressive, doesnt it?
@CapitolPunishment said:
"
Here is another scan of Thor cutting off Cyttork's power to Juggs and beating him down. Cyttork=hyperbole
So much for Cyttork's magic being unstoppible ey?
"
In that comic Thor cut off Juggernauts force-field, not his powers. And he managed to do that only for 60 seconds. You dont know much about Juggernaut and Cyttorak, dont you? "
WTF are you talking about, Juggernaut's invulneribility is his most powerful attribute by far, go read some comics with him in it before you babble that non-sense. I was showing that Thor was able to take that away, what do you think the most powerful elder god would do? "
Did you noticed that Juggernaut didnt bleed after Thors punches? I noticed that. So Thor took away only Juggs FORCE-FIELD and only for 60 second, not his durability.
@lord_oraculous016 said:
" @Lance Bastro said:
" @Gremlin From Kremlin said:
" @PowerHerc said:
" @CapitolPunishment said:
Demogorge kills Juggernaut then uses the jem to travel to the crimson cosmos where he proceeds to Devour Cyttork.
/Spite "
This. "
Are you guys sure he can beat Cyttorak? "
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him. chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power.. when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal. this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.set = demogorgeset = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better)cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of themjuggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power. "
i am sorry but there is so many wrong info from your post..
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him.
Cyttorak has never faced either Set or Chthon, much more the one who slew them.. the Demogorge chased Set and Chthon away from Earth Dimension billions of years ago.. Cyttorak was banished from Earth thousand of years ago.. Cyttorak never wipped any deities of Earth.. he himself was banish along with the rest of the Octessence that is the reason why they created temples and items which holds their power.. in Cyttorak's case, it was the Temple of Cyttorak in Korea and the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak.. Chthon at this time has been inside his realm, unable to escape due to his own immense power and the interventions of Gaea and the Vishanti..
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chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power..
lol.. Chthon never lost his powers.. that is the very reason why he cannot escape his own realm for there is no inter-dimensional rift that can contain the powers within him.. Chthon's influence on earth faded due to the pact created by sorcerers to create a lie that there is no God of Chaos, and that there is no Chaos Magic.. the Vishanti also took effort to counter his remaining influence on Earth by creating the Book of the Vishanti to serve as the opposing power to the dreaded Darkhold, a tome of great magic created by Chthon which has caused so much evil throughout history.. Cyttorak never set foot on Earth after being exiled.. Wanda's birth never restored Chthon's powers as they were never gone in the first place.. during the 6th century, Morgan Le Fay, and the cult of the Darkholders attempted to summon Chthon back on Earth.. upon his manifestation, they realized that a being of his power can never be controlled by any mortal means.. the greatest sorcerers of that era combined their powers to banish him back only to discover that they cannot.. so they just imprisoned his essence in a mountain later known as Mt. Wundagore.. the mountain later became the fortress of the High Evolutionary.. Gregor Russoff then used the Darkhold in an attempt to summon Chthon but failed to control him is essence.. Chthon summoned the Other to act in his behalf and it fought the High Evolutionary and the Knight of Wundagore.. at the same time, Magda, Magneto's wife was currently giving birth to the twins Pietro and Wanda.. the spirit of Magnus entered Russoff, used the Darkhold and sacrificed himself to banish Chthon back.. but before Chthon was completely banished, he blessed the newborn Wanda Maximoff a minuscule portion of his power and the ability to wield Chaos Magic which is the basis for Chthon unholy might.. it was Chthon who gave the Scarlet Witch the power to manipulate Chaos Magic, which later allowed her to alter reality in a multiversal/omniversal scale.. Wanda has nothing to do with the level of Chthon's powers.. Chthon simply sees her as the next vessel for his demonic majesty..
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when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal.
OMG!!! this is complete blasphemy of Marvel's history.. Cyttorak NEVER influenced Earth.. and Chthon never wanted Cyttorak's power since as an Elder God, the supreme-most being of the dark arts who's minuscule fraction of his power allowed the Scarlet Witch to alter reality beyond recognition, feared by Eternity himself, he is clearly more powerful than Cyttorak.. Wanda never got free of Chthon's influence over her.. the Avengers, not the X-Men, only managed to exorcise Chthon's essence which took possession of Wanda.. Set and Chthon fled from the Demogorge back then simply because it is powered by the entire race of Elder Gods which it devoured.. and the Demogorge never reverted back to Atum and escaped to the sun to heal.. i'm sorry, but your story is outlandish..
this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.set = demogorgeset = chthon (where chthon might be slightly better)cthon lost against cyttorak meaning cyttorak > all three of themjuggernaut uses 1/8th of the infinite levels of unlimited power, but it can be constantly streamed unlimited~ly. this is the same power that defeated nightmare and stalemated oblivion. it is also the same power that the deities called trion possessed at one time and also the same power d'spayre obtained for a brief moment.imho, there is no way that demogorge can truly defeat "classic" juggernaut unless he can use bfr or call a powerful psychic powerful enough who can breach through to juggernaut's immense will power. "
i'm sorry but your post proves nothing as it is 100% FALSE.. a regular powered Demogorge was stalemated by Set.. Set needed the aid of Gaea and Oshtur to banish Chthon.. Chthon has created his own Demogorge.. Nightmare was just Shuma-Gorath's servant.. Shuma-Gorath was stalemated by the Vishanti.. the Vishanti has been doing all they can to prevent Chthon's influence and release.. Cyttorak was chased away in exile from Earth thousands of years ago, epochs after the fall of the Elder Gods..
DEMOGORGE WILL DEVOUR JUGGERNAUT IN AN INSTANT..
"
You realy think Chthon is more powerfull then Cyttorak? LOL! Cyttorak will beat Demogorge.
Juggernaut, who has only a little fraction of Cyttoraks power, withstood Dspeir attack (who at that moment was able to control THE UNIVERSE), withstood Thors Godblast (Godblast damaged Exitars armot and made Galactus flee), withstood Strangers attacks (and he knocked Stranger out). And this is only Cyttoraks AVATAR. When Juggernaut got only one aspect of Cyttoraks power (Cyttorak has many aspects of his power) he began to destroy demensional barriers and demensions and he was at least universal thread. And still that is only a LITTLE part of Cyttoraks power. Also, Dr. Strange told once that nobody outside Crimson Cosmos can save him (it was when Strange was in Crimson Cosmos). Zom (!) and Dormammu invoked his powers. So Cyttorak will beat Demogorge and Chthon.
everything you said proves my point. that you don't know the origin of cyttorak. i know that you get your information about the elder gods through the mystic arcana. i even know that you know that is considered fan fiction and not completely accurate towards the origin of marvel's. so comparing my theory with the theory of someone else is moot is it not?
what? i'm sorry? since when did a certified Marvel publication and a storyline considered canon ever a fan-fiction? so you are considering Mystic Arcana, marvel's storyline which tackles about the magical side of the Marvel Universe a fan-fiction? since when did Marvel went wrong and you right when it comes to that department.. also, mine is not a theory.. it is based on canonical storyline published by the company itself with tangible proofs.. so therefore it is not a theory bu a FACT..
however, both you and i do agree that both of us do not really know the true origin and extent of cyttorak and his powers, correct? but you see, this is were the problem lies. that since cyttorak has virtually no feats, you claim him no credibility. ---at all..... where i see the featless features through other parts of the marvel continuity. and from those feats that i see, i can clearly see that cyttorak will and can over power demogorge with so much ease.
first and foremost, Cyttorak's origin has never been explored by Marvel nor does he have any specific story of origin.. MARVEL, the CREATOR of the character only states that HE IS A BEING BANISHED FROM EARTH THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, along with the rest of the Octessence.. this my good friend is a battle forum, and in here we go by feats and not speculation.. and feat-wise, Cyttorak doesn't even compare to any Elder God.. most of your rebuttals are based on those individuals who invokes Cyttorak's aid.. those means nothing in actuality..
capitol punish is jus another one of those closed minded opinion based people. at least with you, i can feel that you might have some imagination to open up your mind. you like the elder gods, i can see that... so you can understand that magic is not explainable so why try to debate with it using a, b, c logic. why debate about magic at all? well i know why? it's because you are curious! you want someone to challenge you to MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND about the things unknown to you. and i am challenging you.
actually, it is not whether i like Elder Gods or not.. i basically love the magical side of Marvel and consider myself well-versed in the topic.. i don't use any form of speculation in my post.. i only say what i know in a fact which i derived from reading comics.. i know for a fact that ABC logic does not apply to all battles and feats are more factual and should be put into consideration more.. challenge me on what? the extent of my knowledge regarding Marvel.. i am not all-knowing but i know a thing or two in the Marvel mystic cosmology.. and upon reading your earlier post, sorry to say, but it seems that it is you who needs to read more about the topic at hand..
ever since the debate of mikaboshi you never given me any clear argument as to why cyttorak couldn't defeat mikaboshi. no body couldn't. all ive gotten was just opinions and no body even tried to speculate save you. speculations??? isn't that the only thing we can do concerning cyttorak? the answer is yes. anything concerning magic is open for speculation. that is a fact. so you still need to come up with a way to disprove how and why cyttorak can and has influenced the continuity of marvel from the 1st day he was published to the days of the infinity sagas to the trion.
the reason why most people think Mikaboshi is superior to Cyttorak is because he has feats to proves that he is as well as the rules of semantics.. Mikaboshi is backed by factual feats as shown in the latest Chaos War storyline which puts him leagues beyond Cyttorak.. also, most of Cyttorak's defense from you are not based on anything rather than speculation.. what is the extent of Cyttorak's influence over Marvel? aside from his worshipers and the aid he gives to sorcerers, there is basically nothing to suggest that he is a vital part of the cosmology or he is a top tier in the cosmic hierarchy.. his appearances during the Infinity Sagas and the Trion storyline is basically lackluster and doesn't prove that he is the powerhouse you claim him to be.. i'm sorry my friend but that is the truth..
i don't need to read your history lesson because frankly, i already know of it. all i'm asking is for you to open your mind up and USE your imagination to come up with a more satisfying method as to why cyttorak will loose to demogorge. there is a reason why stan lee created cyttorak and i'm just waiting for you to see that reason.
if you know the history, then why post such outlandish story which clearly defies the comic history within the continuity.. until the day comes when Marvel itself puts Cyttorak in the top of the cosmic hierarchy, he is basically nothing to boast rather than such grand descriptions of himself..
You realy think Chthon is more powerfull then Cyttorak? LOL! Cyttorak will beat Demogorge.
yes.. as for Cyttorak beating the Demogorge, do you have any evidences to back up your post?
Juggernaut, who has only a little fraction of Cyttoraks power, withstood Dspeir attack (who at that moment was able to control THE UNIVERSE), withstood Thors Godblast (Godblast damaged Exitars armot and made Galactus flee), withstood Strangers attacks (and he knocked Stranger out). And this is only Cyttoraks AVATAR. When Juggernaut got only one aspect of Cyttoraks power (Cyttorak has many aspects of his power) he began to destroy demensional barriers and demensions and he was at least universal thread. And still that is only a LITTLE part of Cyttoraks power. Also, Dr. Strange told once that nobody outside Crimson Cosmos can save him (it was when Strange was in Crimson Cosmos). Zom (!) and Dormammu invoked his powers. So Cyttorak will beat Demogorge and Chthon.
if you would go in with the battle of the avatars, Chthon would stomp Cyttorak so hard in won't even be funny.. what is there to compare between Juggernaut and the Scarlet Witch? Wanda Maximoff who possessed a miniscule fraction of Chthon's unholy might was able, with her final spell to alter reality itself.. she casted her spell over billions of souls, across worlds and dimensions, affecting alternate realities and shifting the possible future of the entire Marvel Continuity.. nothing within Juggernaut's list of feats would top that.. Eternity likened Chthon to a cancer and feared that all reality would fall before him in a blink of an eye if he were to be unhindered.. and that was while just an essence of him took possession of Quicksilver's body.. Doctor strange, yes the all powerful Doctor Strange also died and had his soul corrupted while in the presence of Chthon.. Dormammu and Mephisto also invokes his powers.. Shuma-Gorath was stalemated by the Vishanti, and the Vishanti has done everything within their power to keep Chthon in check and imprisoned and created artifacts just to counter his influences.. feats and semantics suggest that Chthon would destroy Cyttorak.. and the Demogorge, would likely do the same.. unless i can be proven otherwise, not with speculation but with factual feats..
And Thor cutted off Juggy's power only for 60 seconds, just because he had to touch Mjolnir in each minute to stay in his Thor form. Currently ha doesn't have to do this, so he can do it again for as long as he will want to do it. Besides, Demogorge will just create similar field with snap of his fingers...
You realy think Chthon is more powerfull then Cyttorak? LOL! Cyttorak will beat Demogorge.
yes.. as for Cyttorak beating the Demogorge, do you have any evidences to back up your post?
Juggernaut, who has only a little fraction of Cyttoraks power, withstood Dspeir attack (who at that moment was able to control THE UNIVERSE), withstood Thors Godblast (Godblast damaged Exitars armot and made Galactus flee), withstood Strangers attacks (and he knocked Stranger out). And this is only Cyttoraks AVATAR. When Juggernaut got only one aspect of Cyttoraks power (Cyttorak has many aspects of his power) he began to destroy demensional barriers and demensions and he was at least universal thread. And still that is only a LITTLE part of Cyttoraks power. Also, Dr. Strange told once that nobody outside Crimson Cosmos can save him (it was when Strange was in Crimson Cosmos). Zom (!) and Dormammu invoked his powers. So Cyttorak will beat Demogorge and Chthon.
if you would go in with the battle of the avatars, Chthon would stomp Cyttorak so hard in won't even be funny.. what is there to compare between Juggernaut and the Scarlet Witch? Wanda Maximoff who possessed a miniscule fraction of Chthon's unholy might was able, with her final spell to alter reality itself.. she casted her spell over billions of souls, across worlds and dimensions, affecting alternate realities and shifting the possible future of the entire Marvel Continuity.. nothing within Juggernaut's list of feats would top that.. Eternity likened Chthon to a cancer and feared that all reality would fall before him in a blink of an eye if he were to be unhindered.. and that was while just an essence of him took possession of Quicksilver's body.. Doctor strange, yes the all powerful Doctor Strange also died and had his soul corrupted while in the presence of Chthon.. Dormammu and Mephisto also invokes his powers.. Shuma-Gorath was stalemated by the Vishanti, and the Vishanti has done everything within their power to keep Chthon in check and imprisoned and created artifacts just to counter his influences.. feats and semantics suggest that Chthon would destroy Cyttorak.. and the Demogorge, would likely do the same.. unless i can be proven otherwise, not with speculation but with factual feats..
"
Cyttorak will beat Chthon. Vishanti kept Chthon in check, yeah? They didnt want to fight against ANY creature who has a connection with Cyttorak. They just scared.
Scarlet Witch was affecting alternate realities? She was shifting the possible future of the entire Marvel Continuity? Dude, did you read what i wrote? Dspeir with the power to CONTROL THE UNIVERSE wasnt able to kill Juggernaut when Juggernaut was DEPOWERED. You see? And do you know what Trion Juggernaut (who had one aspect of Cyttoraks power) did to many demensional barriers and demensions? He DESTROYED them. Also i didnt saw that Marvel told (or wrote) Chthon has limitless power. But Cyttorak HAS limitless power and i can prove it, easily. So Cyttorak will beat Chthon AND Demogorge. But here we can see not Cyttorak - we can see classic Juggernaut. And HERE Demogorge stomps.
no.. because of the same points mentioned already..
Vishanti kept Chthon in check, yeah? They didnt want to fight against ANY creature who has a connection with Cyttorak. They just scared.
the Vishnati is not the sole reason why Chthon imprisoned.. he is imprisoned by his own power.. his power is to vast that there is no inter-dimensional rift that can contain his powers.. further more Gaea has erected magical screens which are reinforced by sorcerers throughout the millennia to further prevent from entering the Earth Dimension.. also, the Vishanti is set out against Chthon having created the Book of the Vishanti to counter the powers of the Darkhold.. i don't think the Vishanti is scared by Cyttorak with the context of fear as they are in constant relation with him.. it may be due to Cyttorak's destructive nature which deters them from direct association.. when Cyttorak participated on the War of the Seven Spheres, no mystic entity expressed fear of him..
Scarlet Witch was affecting alternate realities? She was shifting the possible future of the entire Marvel Continuity? Dude, did you read what i wrote? Dspeir with the power to CONTROL THE UNIVERSE wasnt able to kill Juggernaut when Juggernaut was DEPOWERED. You see? And do you know what Trion Juggernaut (who had one aspect of Cyttoraks power) did to many demensional barriers and demensions? He DESTROYED them.
lol.. multiverse/omniverse >>>> universe.. based on scale alone, Chthon wins hands down.. plus the fact that Juggernaut was profoundly affected by the House of M.. again, warping the omniverse >>>>>>>>>> destroying dimension/dimensional barriers..
Also i didnt saw that Marvel told (or wrote) Chthon has limitless power. But Cyttorak HAS limitless power and i can prove it, easily. So Cyttorak will beat Chthon AND Demogorge. But here we can see not Cyttorak - we can see classic Juggernaut. And HERE Demogorge stomps.
based on words and description without the support of feats is basically meaningless.. Chthon, like Shuma-Gorath has been described omnipotent within their own dimensions.. Cyttorak being able to leave his realm during the War of the Seven Spheres suggest that Chthon possess greater power since Cyttorak can squeeze through dimensional rifts while can not.. like what i said before, feats and semantics suggest that Chthon would destroy Cyttorak.. and the Demogorge, would likely do the same.. and Juggernaut against the Demogorge would be a spite of biblical proportions in Demogorge's favor..
no.. because of the same points mentioned already..
Vishanti kept Chthon in check, yeah? They didnt want to fight against ANY creature who has a connection with Cyttorak. They just scared.
the Vishnati is not the sole reason why Chthon imprisoned.. he is imprisoned by his own power.. his power is to vast that there is no inter-dimensional rift that can contain his powers.. further more Gaea has erected magical screens which are reinforced by sorcerers throughout the millennia to further prevent from entering the Earth Dimension.. also, the Vishanti is set out against Chthon having created the Book of the Vishanti to counter the powers of the Darkhold.. i don't think the Vishanti is scared by Cyttorak with the context of fear as they are in constant relation with him.. it may be due to Cyttorak's destructive nature which deters them from direct association.. when Cyttorak participated on the War of the Seven Spheres, no mystic entity expressed fear of him..
Scarlet Witch was affecting alternate realities? She was shifting the possible future of the entire Marvel Continuity? Dude, did you read what i wrote? Dspeir with the power to CONTROL THE UNIVERSE wasnt able to kill Juggernaut when Juggernaut was DEPOWERED. You see? And do you know what Trion Juggernaut (who had one aspect of Cyttoraks power) did to many demensional barriers and demensions? He DESTROYED them.
lol.. multiverse/omniverse >>>> universe.. based on scale alone, Chthon wins hands down.. plus the fact that Juggernaut was profoundly affected by the House of M.. again, warping the omniverse >>>>>>>>>> destroying dimension/dimensional barriers..
Also i didnt saw that Marvel told (or wrote) Chthon has limitless power. But Cyttorak HAS limitless power and i can prove it, easily. So Cyttorak will beat Chthon AND Demogorge. But here we can see not Cyttorak - we can see classic Juggernaut. And HERE Demogorge stomps.
based on words and description without the support of feats is basically meaningless.. Chthon, like Shuma-Gorath has been described omnipotent within their own dimensions.. Cyttorak being able to leave his realm during the War of the Seven Spheres suggest that Chthon possess greater power since Cyttorak can squeeze through dimensional rifts while can not.. like what i said before, feats and semantics suggest that Chthon would destroy Cyttorak.. and the Demogorge, would likely do the same.. and Juggernaut against the Demogorge would be a spite of biblical proportions in Demogorge's favor..
"
Trion Juggernaut destroyed demensions AND universes. And he was getting stronger and stronger (that proves Cyttorak has unlimited might). Dr. Strange told once that NOTHING outside The Crimson Cosmos can save him (it was when he was in Crimson Cosmos). I have some scans where Marvel wrote Cyttorak gives UNLIMITED kinetic energy to Juggernaut (its a scan from a comic about cain marko and Luke Cage). That proves Cyttorak has unlimited might (again, bro). So stop writing that Cyttorak havent got any feats, please. because i gave some facts that proves you are wrong.
I wanna see scans that proves Scarlet Witch was able to manipulate the Omniverse.
Now i want you to see what i will write here:
1. Juggernaut knocked out STRANGER.
2. Juggernaut withstood Godblast that can make GALACTUS flee and damage EXITARS armor (Exitar is one of the most powerfull CELESTIALS).
3. Juggernaut defeated Nightmare and OBLIVION wasnt able to do anything to him.
4. Dspeir with magical power enougth to control THE UNIVERSE wasnt able to kill DEPOWERED Juggernaut.
And THAT IS ONLY A LITTLE FRACTION OF CYTTORAKS POWER. So you call Cyttorak featless? LOL!
He is one of the most powerfull beings in Marvel Multiverse.
I heared Vishanti can beat Eternity. And still they are afraid of being demolished by Cyttorak. But... Hey! They are not afraid of Chthon and Demogorge!
Trion Juggernaut destroyed demensions AND universes. And he was getting stronger and stronger (that proves Cyttorak has unlimited might). Dr. Strange told once that NOTHING outside The Crimson Cosmos can save him (it was when he was in Crimson Cosmos). I have some scans where Marvel wrote Cyttorak gives UNLIMITED kinetic energy to Juggernaut (its a scan from a comic about cain marko and Luke Cage). That proves Cyttorak has unlimited might (again, bro). So stop writing that Cyttorak havent got any feats, please. because i gave some facts that proves you are wrong.
scans to prove your claims? strength is not equal to omnipotence.. Dr. Strange almost got killed in Chthon's mere presence.. i ahve not been proven wrong.. you are basically just repeating yourself.. reality warping >>>>>>>> super strength.. again all pure speculation about Cyttorak's power and his rank in the cosmic hierarchy..
I wanna see scans that proves Scarlet Witch was able to manipulate the Omniverse..
not manipulate mu good man, warp is the correct word..
she warped the entire Earth 616 beyond recognition..
she casted her spell over billions of souls.. over worlds and dimensions..
she affected time-lines and shifted the possible futures of the entire Marvel Continuity..
she affected alternate universes..
the use of her powers resulted the release of the Chaos Wave which destroyed and re-created the Omniverse..
the Chaos Wave was even feared to reach the Ascension, the Throne of God itself..
in a divergent reality, Wanda shoed a greater extent to her powers when she managed to depower every super-powered beings like breaking the connection a Sorcerer Supreme has with the mystic arts, canceling cosmic-energy based powers, such as that of the Fantastic Four, stripping all the world's mutants of their variety of powers and eliminating powers caused by irradiation on a cellular level or by gamma-ray blood transfusions, as well as revealing and de-powering all the concealed Skrulls on Earth and all Inhumans, including Black Bolt on Earth's moon..
and many more feats that Juggernaut can ever dream of.. plus the fact that Juggernaut himself was affected by the House of M.. this scan was from House of M: Uncanny X-Men "Season of the Witch"
I wanna see scans that proves Scarlet Witch was able to manipulate the Omniverse.
Now i want you to see what i will write here:
1. Juggernaut knocked out STRANGER.
2. Juggernaut withstood Godblast that can make GALACTUS flee and damage EXITARS armor (Exitar is one of the most powerfull CELESTIALS).
3. Juggernaut defeated Nightmare and OBLIVION wasnt able to do anything to him.
4. Dspeir with magical power enougth to control THE UNIVERSE wasnt able to kill DEPOWERED Juggernaut.
And THAT IS ONLY A LITTLE FRACTION OF CYTTORAKS POWER. So you call Cyttorak featless? LOL!
1. Non-Canon
2. Chthon's essence upon taking over Quicksilver's body weaved a spell that imprison the entire dimension of Asgard and the state of Oklahoma in a void dimension..
3. Nightmare was a servant of Shuma-Gorath.. Shuma-Gorath = Vishanti = Chthon.. Eternity also fears Chthon and threatens him to a cancer and that all of reality would have fallen before him if he was not stopped..
4. Wanda Maximoff with a fraction of Chthon's power affected world, dimensions, alternate universes and time-lines..
AND MOST OF THOSE FEATS WERE DONE BY SOMEONE POSSESSING A FRACTION OF CHTHON'S POWERS..
He is one of the most powerfull beings in Marvel Multiverse.
no he is not.. there are tons to beings more powerful than him.. he cannot even be compared to an Elder God at the most..
I heared Vishanti can beat Eternity. And still they are afraid of being demolished by Cyttorak. But... Hey! They are not afraid of Chthon and Demogorge!
the Vishanti possess power to shatter universes.. they are not afraid of Cyttorak in the context of fear.. they were not afraid to take him on along with the rest of mystical principalities during the War of the Seven Spheres to gain Dr. Strange's services..
Cyttorak can beat Demogorge AND Chthon.
no, just no with the same reason mentioned above..
Trion Juggernaut destroyed demensions AND universes. And he was getting stronger and stronger (that proves Cyttorak has unlimited might). Dr. Strange told once that NOTHING outside The Crimson Cosmos can save him (it was when he was in Crimson Cosmos). I have some scans where Marvel wrote Cyttorak gives UNLIMITED kinetic energy to Juggernaut (its a scan from a comic about cain marko and Luke Cage). That proves Cyttorak has unlimited might (again, bro). So stop writing that Cyttorak havent got any feats, please. because i gave some facts that proves you are wrong.
scans to prove your claims? strength is not equal to omnipotence.. Dr. Strange almost got killed in Chthon's mere presence.. i ahve not been proven wrong.. you are basically just repeating yourself.. reality warping >>>>>>>> super strength.. again all pure speculation about Cyttorak's power and his rank in the cosmic hierarchy..
I wanna see scans that proves Scarlet Witch was able to manipulate the Omniverse..
not manipulate mu good man, warp is the correct word..
she warped the entire Earth 616 beyond recognition..
she casted her spell over billions of souls.. over worlds and dimensions..
she affected time-lines and shifted the possible futures of the entire Marvel Continuity..
she affected alternate universes..
the use of her powers resulted the release of the Chaos Wave which destroyed and re-created the Omniverse..
the Chaos Wave was even feared to reach the Ascension, the Throne of God itself..
in a divergent reality, Wanda shoed a greater extent to her powers when she managed to depower every super-powered beings like breaking the connection a Sorcerer Supreme has with the mystic arts, canceling cosmic-energy based powers, such as that of the Fantastic Four, stripping all the world's mutants of their variety of powers and eliminating powers caused by irradiation on a cellular level or by gamma-ray blood transfusions, as well as revealing and de-powering all the concealed Skrulls on Earth and all Inhumans, including Black Bolt on Earth's moon..
and many more feats that Juggernaut can ever dream of.. plus the fact that Juggernaut himself was affected by the House of M.. this scan was from House of M: Uncanny X-Men "Season of the Witch"
I wanna see scans that proves Scarlet Witch was able to manipulate the Omniverse.
Now i want you to see what i will write here:
1. Juggernaut knocked out STRANGER.
2. Juggernaut withstood Godblast that can make GALACTUS flee and damage EXITARS armor (Exitar is one of the most powerfull CELESTIALS).
3. Juggernaut defeated Nightmare and OBLIVION wasnt able to do anything to him.
4. Dspeir with magical power enougth to control THE UNIVERSE wasnt able to kill DEPOWERED Juggernaut.
And THAT IS ONLY A LITTLE FRACTION OF CYTTORAKS POWER. So you call Cyttorak featless? LOL!
1. Non-Canon
2. Chthon's essence upon taking over Quicksilver's body weaved a spell that imprison the entire dimension of Asgard and the state of Oklahoma in a void dimension..
3. Nightmare was a servant of Shuma-Gorath.. Shuma-Gorath = Vishanti = Chthon.. Eternity also fears Chthon and threatens him to a cancer and that all of reality would have fallen before him if he was not stopped..
4. Wanda Maximoff with a fraction of Chthon's power affected world, dimensions, alternate universes and time-lines..
AND MOST OF THOSE FEATS WERE DONE BY SOMEONE POSSESSING A FRACTION OF CHTHON'S POWERS..
He is one of the most powerfull beings in Marvel Multiverse.
no he is not.. there are tons to beings more powerful than him.. he cannot even be compared to an Elder God at the most..
I heared Vishanti can beat Eternity. And still they are afraid of being demolished by Cyttorak. But... Hey! They are not afraid of Chthon and Demogorge!
the Vishanti possess power to shatter universes.. they are not afraid of Cyttorak in the context of fear.. they were not afraid to take him on along with the rest of mystical principalities during the War of the Seven Spheres to gain Dr. Strange's services..
Cyttorak can beat Demogorge AND Chthon.
no, just no with the same reason mentioned above..
But in this battle classic Juggernaut lose.
yes.. in a murderstomp..
^_^ "
Juggernaut knocked Stranger out and it IS canon. Otherwise, i want you to prove it is not canon.
Dspeir was able to manipulate 616 universe too and he allmost opened a portal to Outer Void. And he didnt do anything to Juggernaut.
Fact is fact - Vishanto greatly feared Cyttorak. They didnt allowed Strange to use their powers against Cyttorak.
Cyttorak and his avatar has many feats to powerhouses. Cyttorak = one of the most powerfull beings in 616 universe. And about Juggernauts power. Well... You do know he overpowered Hulk and you remember about Trion Juggernaut, right?
Also, Shuma-Gorath was defeated by Dr. Strange who used powers of Arioch and CYTTORAK. Also dont forget that that Juggernaut who was in House of M was DEPOWERED Juggernaut.
Cyttorak is pretty powerfull if his avatar cant be affected with attacks that can damage celestials who can destroy galaxies and cosmic entities easily.
You didnt prove anything. You are a Chthons fan, right? ^_^
" Demogorge stomps...And Thor cutted off Juggy's power only for 60 seconds, just because he had to touch Mjolnir in each minute to stay in his Thor form. Currently ha doesn't have to do this, so he can do it again for as long as he will want to do it. Besides, Demogorge will just create similar field with snap of his fingers... "
Trion Juggernaut destroyed demensions AND universes. And he was getting stronger and stronger (that proves Cyttorak has unlimited might). Dr. Strange told once that NOTHING outside The Crimson Cosmos can save him (it was when he was in Crimson Cosmos). I have some scans where Marvel wrote Cyttorak gives UNLIMITED kinetic energy to Juggernaut (its a scan from a comic about cain marko and Luke Cage). That proves Cyttorak has unlimited might (again, bro). So stop writing that Cyttorak havent got any feats, please. because i gave some facts that proves you are wrong.
scans to prove your claims? strength is not equal to omnipotence.. Dr. Strange almost got killed in Chthon's mere presence.. i ahve not been proven wrong.. you are basically just repeating yourself.. reality warping >>>>>>>> super strength.. again all pure speculation about Cyttorak's power and his rank in the cosmic hierarchy..
I wanna see scans that proves Scarlet Witch was able to manipulate the Omniverse..
not manipulate mu good man, warp is the correct word..
she warped the entire Earth 616 beyond recognition..
she casted her spell over billions of souls.. over worlds and dimensions..
she affected time-lines and shifted the possible futures of the entire Marvel Continuity..
she affected alternate universes..
the use of her powers resulted the release of the Chaos Wave which destroyed and re-created the Omniverse..
the Chaos Wave was even feared to reach the Ascension, the Throne of God itself..
in a divergent reality, Wanda shoed a greater extent to her powers when she managed to depower every super-powered beings like breaking the connection a Sorcerer Supreme has with the mystic arts, canceling cosmic-energy based powers, such as that of the Fantastic Four, stripping all the world's mutants of their variety of powers and eliminating powers caused by irradiation on a cellular level or by gamma-ray blood transfusions, as well as revealing and de-powering all the concealed Skrulls on Earth and all Inhumans, including Black Bolt on Earth's moon..
and many more feats that Juggernaut can ever dream of.. plus the fact that Juggernaut himself was affected by the House of M.. this scan was from House of M: Uncanny X-Men "Season of the Witch"
I wanna see scans that proves Scarlet Witch was able to manipulate the Omniverse.
Now i want you to see what i will write here:
1. Juggernaut knocked out STRANGER.
2. Juggernaut withstood Godblast that can make GALACTUS flee and damage EXITARS armor (Exitar is one of the most powerfull CELESTIALS).
3. Juggernaut defeated Nightmare and OBLIVION wasnt able to do anything to him.
4. Dspeir with magical power enougth to control THE UNIVERSE wasnt able to kill DEPOWERED Juggernaut.
And THAT IS ONLY A LITTLE FRACTION OF CYTTORAKS POWER. So you call Cyttorak featless? LOL!
1. Non-Canon
2. Chthon's essence upon taking over Quicksilver's body weaved a spell that imprison the entire dimension of Asgard and the state of Oklahoma in a void dimension..
3. Nightmare was a servant of Shuma-Gorath.. Shuma-Gorath = Vishanti = Chthon.. Eternity also fears Chthon and threatens him to a cancer and that all of reality would have fallen before him if he was not stopped..
4. Wanda Maximoff with a fraction of Chthon's power affected world, dimensions, alternate universes and time-lines..
AND MOST OF THOSE FEATS WERE DONE BY SOMEONE POSSESSING A FRACTION OF CHTHON'S POWERS..
He is one of the most powerfull beings in Marvel Multiverse.
no he is not.. there are tons to beings more powerful than him.. he cannot even be compared to an Elder God at the most..
I heared Vishanti can beat Eternity. And still they are afraid of being demolished by Cyttorak. But... Hey! They are not afraid of Chthon and Demogorge!
the Vishanti possess power to shatter universes.. they are not afraid of Cyttorak in the context of fear.. they were not afraid to take him on along with the rest of mystical principalities during the War of the Seven Spheres to gain Dr. Strange's services..
Cyttorak can beat Demogorge AND Chthon.
no, just no with the same reason mentioned above..
But in this battle classic Juggernaut lose.
yes.. in a murderstomp..
^_^ "
Juggernaut knocked Stranger out and it IS canon. Otherwise, i want you to prove it is not canon.
Dspeir was able to manipulate 616 universe too and he allmost opened a portal to Outer Void. And he didnt do anything to Juggernaut.
Fact is fact - Vishanto greatly feared Cyttorak. They didnt allowed Strange to use their powers against Cyttorak.
Cyttorak and his avatar has many feats to powerhouses. Cyttorak = one of the most powerfull beings in 616 universe. And about Juggernauts power. Well... You do know he overpowered Hulk and you remember about Trion Juggernaut, right?
Also, Shuma-Gorath was defeated by Dr. Strange who used powers of Arioch and CYTTORAK. Also dont forget that that Juggernaut who was in House of M was DEPOWERED Juggernaut.
Cyttorak is pretty powerfull if his avatar cant be affected with attacks that can damage celestials who can destroy galaxies and cosmic entities easily.
You didnt prove anything. You are a Chthons fan, right? ^_^
"
No, it is not canon. Otherwise, I want you to prove that it otherwise. If you read the comic, you would know that it's from an alternate time line. The series are called X-Men Forever.
LOL, no he was not. He hasn't even shown anything impressive in terms of destructive power.. Not even a planet busting attack. And he was defeated by Spite.
Where IS the fact? Why did Cyttorak himself asked Doctor Strange for help in the War of the Seven Spheres?
Do you have any proof that shows Cyttorak's power? As Lord Oraculous already mentioned, you repeat the same words over and over again. Read some comics, that might help your credibility.
Doctor Strange even with the power of Vishanti, Arioch, prep time, and magical artifacts of Cyttorak's wasn't able to beat Shuma-Gorath. Shuma-Gorath's own power was surging within himself, so techically it was his own power that defeated him. Shuma-Gorath is able to annihilate galaxies just by walking around, he made the Ancient One tremble in fear, he rules hundreds of Universes and feeds on virtually any energy.
I'm pretty sure we went through this already, Cyttorak's avatar never withstood the attacks that hurt Galactus and Celestials, but you chose to ignore my arguments, good job.
what? i'm sorry? since when did a certified Marvel publication and a storyline considered canon ever a fan-fiction? so you are considering Mystic Arcana, marvel's storyline which tackles about the magical side of the Marvel Universe a fan-fiction? since when did Marvel went wrong and you right when it comes to that department.. also, mine is not a theory.. it is based on canonical storyline published by the company itself with tangible proofs.. so therefore it is not a theory bu a FACT..
are you contradicting yourself when you speak of "publications" and then mentioning the word "non-canon" in almost every one of your arguments? you see, the reason why i never use the term "non-canon" in my arguments is because of publications. i told you this before under the science of quantum realities which i know you believe as well since you mentioned about the chaos wave effecting parallel times of multiple universes. that everything that is considered non canon is actually cannon in the continuity due to quantum realities. the mystic arcana is just one of them, and the writers are fans of the magical side of what the originals created so therefore a fan-fiction of its own cause. all of the new stories written by new generation writers were or still are at one point of their life a fan of the original concept. for example, if i wrote a series about juggernaut regaining his powers as the trion and then making him reality warp space and manipulating time, that is staying true to the original concept of how the creator intended the origin of juggernaut's power to be. however, if i wrote something where juggernaut gets his head torn off by thanos with the infinity gauntlet while juggernaut is at full power, that right there is the part that IS NOT TRUE to the original concept of the character. do you understand where i'm getting at? eventhough mystic arcana is fan based... it had still been published, so therefore canon... however, now it's up to the readers to choose which cannon takes more credibility? the original concept or the fan-based material...
first and foremost, Cyttorak's origin has never been explored by Marvel nor does he have any specific story of origin.. MARVEL, the CREATOR of the character only states that HE IS A BEING BANISHED FROM EARTH THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, along with the rest of the Octessence.. this my good friend is a battle forum, and in here we go by feats and not speculation.. and feat-wise, Cyttorak doesn't even compare to any Elder God.. most of your rebuttals are based on those individuals who invokes Cyttorak's aid.. those means nothing in actuality..
not entirely true. i've noticed you've been omitting a lot, which includes the parts that tell us about cyttorak's endless amounts of power he can distribute endlessly anywhere. specifically towards his avatar. the creator (stan lee) also tells us that the purpose (sole purpose) he created juggernaut was so that any character in marvel can fight juggernaut at their utmost and fullest potential without damaging the juggernaut. and that he created cyttorak to be the ultimate force that makes juggernaut so unable to kill. and only using a fraction upon fractions of his 12% of power compacted inside the gem that powers juggernaut. this was by his own words.
through his writing through the arcs, he uses narration to speculate, not specify, what the vishanti and elder gods "BELIEVED" what happened to cyttorak. and forces the reader to absorb the speculation of what those characters believed what happened to cyttorak was banned... but then again, through stan lee, we find out that cyttorak is one with the crimson cosmos, being the crimson cosmos and the crimson cosmos being the essence of cyttorak. he also mentions that the crimson cosmos is an endless universe that's been around since before time meaning that he's been out much longer than eternity making cyttorak and the crimson cosmos more than billions of trillions years old considering when eternity was created for the 1st time.
THE ELDER GODS on the other hand where created AFTER!!! Eternity! hence why the elder gods are speculated, not specified to be "billions of years old".
can i ask you something?
when a teacher teaches a child or when a professor teaches his student, do those teachers teach their decipals to think what they show them or to think for themselves?
this is a good example that determines drawn physical feats the eye can see, to subliminal feats the eye does not.
stan lee a type of writer (as well as his old team) that allows the reader imagination.
unlike the writers nowadays need to be grabbed by the arm and shown how the story was written.... <-- bad writing!
comics are all about imagination hence why he keeps cyttorak and his magic anonymous and very well... subliminal!!!
but you and everyone who doesn't see this only treat physical drawn evidence as a concret structure of your arguments.
this means that your mind is pretty closed to the point you see cyttorak or the unknown parts of marvel like looking into a small pipe trying to see the world.
it' just like that mikaboshi arc... just a pipe focusing one thing... (while the next generation writer tricks his readers to believe that the choas king was more than it wasn't by watering down some characters like nightmare and death)
actually, it is not whether i like Elder Gods or not.. i basically love the magical side of Marvel and consider myself well-versed in the topic.. i don't use any form of speculation in my post.. i only say what i know in a fact which i derived from reading comics.. i know for a fact that ABC logic does not apply to all battles and feats are more factual and should be put into consideration more.. challenge me on what? the extent of my knowledge regarding Marvel.. i am not all-knowing but i know a thing or two in the Marvel mystic cosmology.. and upon reading your earlier post, sorry to say, but it seems that it is you who needs to read more about the topic at hand..
well, if that where true, how is it that i accept the powers of the elder gods as it is, but at the same time accept cyttorak's power as is it intentionally supposed to be and you not? it is not me who is omitting anything - it is you. I accepted everything to the point of magic, but you think that there is no such thing as an unlimited source from one certain character that almost makes you seem pretty biased against that character. you don't think i acknowledge the elder gods? or even the power of the house of m through wanda? then your wrong because i do acknowledge that, but that doesn't mean that chthon is >>>>>>>>>> cyttorak and it definitely doesn't mean that reality warping >>>>>>>>>> every other power out there.
the reason why most people think Mikaboshi is superior to Cyttorak is because he has feats to proves that he is as well as the rules of semantics.. Mikaboshi is backed by factual feats as shown in the latest Chaos War storyline which puts him leagues beyond Cyttorak.. also, most of Cyttorak's defense from you are not based on anything rather than speculation.. what is the extent of Cyttorak's influence over Marvel? aside from his worshipers and the aid he gives to sorcerers, there is basically nothing to suggest that he is a vital part of the cosmology or he is a top tier in the cosmic hierarchy.. his appearances during the Infinity Sagas and the Trion storyline is basically lackluster and doesn't prove that he is the powerhouse you claim him to be.. i'm sorry my friend but that is the truth..
that's what i'm talking about... factual feats... feats that the eye can see and comparing them to feats that are, but wishes not to be seen. not to throw religion into this topic, but if there was a God in this universe, what feats has he shown us?????
what feats has he proved to make us believe he is omnipotent, omniscience and omnipresent???? he has not! and that applies with this argument.
if you know the history, then why post such outlandish story which clearly defies the comic history within the continuity.. until the day comes when Marvel itself puts Cyttorak in the top of the cosmic hierarchy, he is basically nothing to boast rather than such grand descriptions of himself..
^_^
well according to marvel there is only one cyttorak that powers all versions of cain marko and not in all realities and the same that grants his powers to all realities and time to the characters that invoke him... but.... according to marvel, there are multiple versions of the elder gods. which version of chthon can defeat that one cyttorak or does he need all versions of himself? remember... the elder gods where created after eternity.... there are more eternities than just one, hence the more eternities the more elder gods..... 2nd note.... there is only one crimson cosmos..... so you determine that who is grand.
are you contradicting yourself when you speak of "publications" and then mentioning the word "non-canon" in almost every one of your arguments? you see, the reason why i never use the term "non-canon" in my arguments is because of publications. i told you this before under the science of quantum realities which i know you believe as well since you mentioned about the chaos wave effecting parallel times of multiple universes. that everything that is considered non canon is actually cannon in the continuity due to quantum realities. the mystic arcana is just one of them, and the writers are fans of the magical side of what the originals created so therefore a fan-fiction of its own cause. all of the new stories written by new generation writers were or still are at one point of their life a fan of the original concept. for example, if i wrote a series about juggernaut regaining his powers as the trion and then making him reality warp space and manipulating time, that is staying true to the original concept of how the creator intended the origin of juggernaut's power to be. however, if i wrote something where juggernaut gets his head torn off by thanos with the infinity gauntlet while juggernaut is at full power, that right there is the part that IS NOT TRUE to the original concept of the character. do you understand where i'm getting at? eventhough mystic arcana is fan based... it had still been published, so therefore canon... however, now it's up to the readers to choose which cannon takes more credibility? the original concept or the fan-based material...
lol.. i don't contradict myself my good man.. any knowledgeable comic book reader knows the difference between a Canon and a Non-Canon Issue.. Storylines that is included in the main streamline of the Marvel publication are considered to be canon while stories such as What If's are considered Non-Canon.. Mystic Arcana is a Canon publication.. i why it funny how you consider it Non-Canon while Marvel itself considers it as Canon.. it's basically your word vs Marvel's.. ret-cons are natural in canon storylines.. it doesn't mean that a character's history has been changed it mean it is Non-Canon.. based on your claims, it makes me realize that you don't know much of the things you are talking about.. Mystic Arcana is FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES CANON.. IT IS AS CANON AS SECRET WARS, THE INFINITY SAGA, DARK PHOENIX SAGA, AVENGERS, X-MEN ETC..
not entirely true. i've noticed you've been omitting a lot, which includes the parts that tell us about cyttorak's endless amounts of power he can distribute endlessly anywhere. specifically towards his avatar. the creator (stan lee) also tells us that the purpose (sole purpose) he created juggernaut was so that any character in marvel can fight juggernaut at their utmost and fullest potential without damaging the juggernaut. and that he created cyttorak to be the ultimate force that makes juggernaut so unable to kill. and only using a fraction upon fractions of his 12% of power compacted inside the gem that powers juggernaut. this was by his own words.
where was it mentioned the Cyttorak's power is unlimited anywhere? he was even exiled from Earth in the first place.. you cannot assume a character's power based on grand descriptions alone.. Cyttorak is not even close to the most powerful forces in creation.. being described as possessor of limitless power doesn't give you the win in battle threads.. Oshtur has been described as OMNIPOTENT, the Dark Phoenix has been described as SECOND ONLY TO THAT OF THE CREATOR.. those are fine examples that grand descriptions doesn't reflect what you want them to be..
through his writing through the arcs, he uses narration to speculate, not specify, what the vishanti and elder gods "BELIEVED" what happened to cyttorak. and forces the reader to absorb the speculation of what those characters believed what happened to cyttorak was banned... but then again, through stan lee, we find out that cyttorak is one with the crimson cosmos, being the crimson cosmos and the crimson cosmos being the essence of cyttorak. he also mentions that the crimson cosmos is an endless universe that's been around since before time meaning that he's been out much longer than eternity making cyttorak and the crimson cosmos more than billions of trillions years old considering when eternity was created for the 1st time.
based on what? grand descriptions without factual proofs.. you are overstretching all of Cyttorak's attributes.. anyone who has been reading comics that Cyttorak is nothing compared to the great powers of the universe.. the Crimson Cosmos is nothing but a parallel dimension within the universe.. nothing more.. nothing less.. billions of trillions old? lol.. Cyttorak was banish a couple of thousand years ago based on his bio in marvel as well as in his given history.. please, based your opinions on facts..
THE ELDER GODS on the other hand where created AFTER!!! Eternity! hence why the elder gods are speculated, not specified to be "billions of years old".
Eternity is indeed oler that the Elder Gods.. the Elder Gods are the fist ethereal beings to be spawned from Earth.. Cyttorak was exiled and banished a couple of millenia ago.. that is the time-line within Marvel.. please stop assuming things which has no verified proofs..
can i ask you something? when a teacher teaches a child or when a professor teaches his student, do those teachers teach their decipals to think what they show them or to think for themselves? this is a good example that determines drawn physical feats the eye can see, to subliminal feats the eye does not. stan lee a type of writer (as well as his old team) that allows the reader imagination. unlike the writers nowadays need to be grabbed by the arm and shown how the story was written.... <-- bad writing! comics are all about imagination hence why he keeps cyttorak and his magic anonymous and very well... subliminal!!! but you and everyone who doesn't see this only treat physical drawn evidence as a concret structure of your arguments. this means that your mind is pretty closed to the point you see cyttorak or the unknown parts of marvel like looking into a small pipe trying to see the world. it' just like that mikaboshi arc... just a pipe focusing one thing... (while the next generation writer tricks his readers to believe that the choas king was more than it wasn't by watering down some characters like nightmare and death)
as a student who graduated as a candidate for latin honors, i listen to what my teachers teach me.. but rather than just relying on those facts, i try to research on my own based on the facts written in books, base the informations i gather of different sources and seek audience with my teacher for needed clarification.. that is the whole process of learning.. as for comic books, it is similar yet very different.. here we are discussing fictional characters who's lives are based on the wills of their writers.. lol.. i have a very deep understanding of many aspects of certain things.. but there is a fine line which distinguish actually logical reason to outlandish exaggeration.. the history which you claimed that Cyttorak fought Chthon and where you said that Chthon sought Cyttorak's power was such example.. first, it never happened and two, it is complete lie and is pure based of basically nothing.. current writers doen't trick their readers.. it is their way of ret-coning a certain character.. such things is something to be expected for comic book characters.. saying that such thing are nothing but fan-fiction is absurd and acomplete nonsense..
well, if that where true, how is it that i accept the powers of the elder gods as it is, but at the same time accept cyttorak's power as is it intentionally supposed to be and you not? it is not me who is omitting anything - it is you. I accepted everything to the point of magic, but you think that there is no such thing as an unlimited source from one certain character that almost makes you seem pretty biased against that character. you don't think i acknowledge the elder gods? or even the power of the house of m through wanda? then your wrong because i do acknowledge that, but that doesn't mean that chthon is >>>>>>>>>> cyttorak and it definitely doesn't mean that reality warping >>>>>>>>>> every other power out there
why, beacause Elder Gods have feats while Cyttorak has none.. the reason why most people don't take you seriously is because of your outlandish post with regards with Cyttorak.. you basically put him on a pedestal when it is obvious that he doesn't deserve all the credits you give him.. now, you post a completely fabricated history which basically shows Cyttorak is the most powerful character.. i'm sorry, but upon doing such things, your basically giving the wrong impression with other viners.. many people here knows what they are saying.. if you acknowledge all that, then why come which such opinions.. if you say so, give me one thing aside from omnipotence which is greater than reality warping? because no matter how you see it, the fact is, a person who can make her thoughts reality will always defeat a person with nothing more but super strength..
that's what i'm talking about... factual feats... feats that the eye can see and comparing them to feats that are, but wishes not to be seen. not to throw religion into this topic, but if there was a God in this universe, what feats has he shown us????? what feats has he proved to make us believe he is omnipotent, omniscience and omnipresent???? he has not! and that applies with this argument.
lol.. there is a major difference between fate and knowledge of a comic book character.. you cannot point out the defense of what is God's feats to tell us he is all powerful.. that my friend is the concept of faith.. to believe something with all your heart despite the lack of actual evidence.. that is the human virtue which is undeniable.. now, that is not applicable in comics for comics are fictional characters created by men of imagination.. you can not put the word faith to be synonymous to imagination.. and no, such things does not apply to this argument, well not unless you worship a comic book character.. lol
well according to marvel there is only one cyttorak that powers all versions of cain marko and not in all realities and the same that grants his powers to all realities and time to the characters that invoke him... but.... according to marvel, there are multiple versions of the elder gods. which version of chthon can defeat that one cyttorak or does he need all versions of himself? remember... the elder gods where created after eternity.... there are more eternities than just one, hence the more eternities the more elder gods..... 2nd note.... there is only one crimson cosmos..... so you determine that who is grand.
first, when was it mentioned that Cyttorak is unique to the multiverse? none i believe so.. just because Juggernaut was transported to the Ultrafoce universe and still has power prove that Cyttorak also has influence over that reality? was there a juggernaut on that reality? none i believe.. Elder Gods at-lest has been mentioned to be unique to the multiverse.. on Set's bio, it has been stated that some writers claimed that Set is unique to the mutiverse.. he is the source of power for the Serpent Crown which can be found in all exiting realities.. and these Serpent crown were once all gather just to summon Set himself, suggesting that he is indeed unique to the multiverse.. same can probably be said about Chthon since the Darkhold was also feature in Marvel Zombies 5 and the power of the Scarlet Wtch affected alternate realities simultaneously.. and still, it doesn't expalain why you posted such outlandish story in the first place..
let me state your story again..
maybe they are not sure because they don't know that it was cyttorak that was the one that slain chthon after the incident of demogorge. this means that while chthon and set escaped from demogorge, hundreds of years later, cyttorak visited earth (10,000 years ago) and wiped off all of the deities making them flee while chthon challenged him. chthon lost and all his power was pretty much diminished to the point where he was just a faded memory. when the elder gods arrived back to earth, cyttorak was already gone and they found chthon's remaining essence scattered about on the earth., but as years went on, chthon's essences was the main influence that corrupted human minds. per every soul that causes chaos on the earth strengthen chthon back into one piece, but he was still weak until after the birth of wanda maximoff whose chaos hex magic greatly restored chthon to almost full power.. when chthon possessed wanda, he felt the power of cyttorak still influencing the world. after some investigation, he found that juggernaut was the cause of the fraction of cyttorak's power still wandering around earth. chthon uses wanda to seduce juggernaut so that chthon can posses cain and feed from the power of cyttorak (since he learned the hard way that cyttorak has infinite levels of unlimited power)... but before he can process cain, the x-men interuppted and the god bova help wanda cut the link off chthon's control over her.
now if you take this history, and add it to the fact the chthon's brother set was powerful enough to take on demogorge and injure demogorge to the point where demogorge reverted back into atum and escaped from back to the sun to heal. this is proof that demogorge is simply no match for cyttorak.
i just want to ask something.. where did you get this story?
" Demogorge stomps...And Thor cutted off Juggy's power only for 60 seconds, just because he had to touch Mjolnir in each minute to stay in his Thor form. Currently ha doesn't have to do this, so he can do it again for as long as he will want to do it. Besides, Demogorge will just create similar field with snap of his fingers... "
Does Thor still have this ability? I mean nobody would claim current Superman would sneeze solar systems away. Characters in different eras aren't identical.
Cyttorak HAS limitless power, want you it, or not. In comic book with Luke Cage you can see such words as "Cain marko is connected with interdimensional being that gives him ENDLESS kinetic energy" or something like that. Is it a proof? Yes. Marvel HQ claims Juggernaut can cull upon Cyttoraks LIMITLESS power. Dr. Strange told once that NOTHING can save him outside The Crimson Cosmos (it was when Cyttorak banished him there). So yes - there are enougth proofs Cyttorak has limitless power in his demension. So, if Chthon will be in Crimson Cosmos, Cyttorak will make him bleed.
You wrote that Cyttorak was banished to Crimson Cosmos. But you forgot what Stan Lee told about Juggernauts power and you forgot why he created Juggernaut. Also, you forgot that Cyttorak doesnt CARE about The Earth and nobody knows how he was banished from Earth (mabe Living Tribunal helped herous to banish him lol).
Scarlet Witch did many things to 616 universe. But you forgot something. You forgot, that Dspeir with power of Crimson Cosmos was able to control The Universe (616, you know) and he proved that by opening a portal to Oblivion (to Outer Void, actuely). And, LOL, he wasnt able to kill DEPOWERED Juggy. So that proves that even UNIVERSE DESTROYERS CANT KILL THE JUGGERNAUT. So what Scarlet Witch or demogorge can do to him? They can BFR him, but not kill him.
Now you need to remember Trion Juggernaut who was MULTIVERSAL thread (he was destroying demensions, universes and demensional barriers by smashing the air). And if universal destroyers cant kill depowered Juggy, you can imagine how UNKILLABLE was Trion Juggernaut. He will eat Scarlet Witch with power of Chthon on breakfest. And still, that is only a very little part of Cyttoraks power.
Also, Juggernaut withstood Thors Godblast (he withstood the same Godblast as Galactus and Exitar because Thor told that and that godblast was as powerfull as another godblasts, he was just not as big), celestials killer attack, classic Nightmares attack (who banished Eternity once) and Oblivions attacks. Also, strength of classic juggernaut is immence and OMNIPOTENT. He overpowered Hulk (Hulk picked up a black hole once) and you know what he did when he became Trion juggernaut.
War Hulk with power enougth to physically overpower ANY celestial wasnt able to hurt Juggs and it was not easy for him to stop Juggs who was depowered (he didnt use his magical skills).
Also, i wanna see a proof that comic book where Juggy knocked out Stranger is noncanon and that event was not in 616 universe.
Oh, i forgot - Galactus wasnt able to overcome Cyttoraks magic when crimson tantekles took their ship.
And after that you write Cyttorak is featless? What a funny point LOL!!!
" Demogorge stomps...And Thor cutted off Juggy's power only for 60 seconds, just because he had to touch Mjolnir in each minute to stay in his Thor form. Currently ha doesn't have to do this, so he can do it again for as long as he will want to do it. Besides, Demogorge will just create similar field with snap of his fingers... "
Does Thor still have this ability? I mean nobody would claim current Superman would sneeze solar systems away. Characters in different eras aren't identical. "
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