Classic Black Panther vs Ultimate Hawkeye

A fellow comic nerd said that Ultimate hawkeye is superior to 616 Hawkeye. I don't know. But I always thought 616 Hawkeye was underrated. Even with arrows, not as good as Tchalla but close. So can Ultimate Hawkeye beat Classic Tchalla. They start 500ft away on a busy bridge. Cars are zooming by. The fighters are not worried about casualties but don't want to get hit by a car. Tchalla has his vibranium suit with laser claws that he can shoot and they reform. One energy dagger. Hawkeye has unlimited titanium tipped arrows. 10 vibranium tipped arrows. 5 shock arrows. 2 grenade tipped arrows. 2 sonic arrows. 2 electric net arrows.

@pooty: Those 'laser claws' are actually energy daggers in projectile form.

@Static Shock: that makes more sense than "energy claws".

@pooty: I was assuming you didn't know what they actually were. LOL.

Bump

What are the differences between 616 and ultimate hawkeye? I don't really read the ultimate line.

@tg1982: Ultimate Hawkeye is lot better fighter than 616.I go with him.

Black panther cause hes one of the smartest men in the marvel universe so he will find a strategy to win. Though utliamte hawkeye does have special eyes that enable perfect targeting evverytime

@Stronger said:

@tg1982: Ultimate Hawkeye is lot better fighter than 616.I go with him.

He asked for differences between the two, not who you like better. LOL.

@tg1982 said:

What are the differences between 616 and ultimate hawkeye? I don't really read the ultimate line.

Ultimate Hawkeye has the accuracy of 616 Bullseye (there was an instance in Ultimates 2, when he used his fingernails and flicked them at amazing speeds, killing his captors with them) because of his enhanced eyesight. Unlike his 616 counterpart, he kills without restraint. Other than bow and arrows, he's also used guns.

@tg1982: @Static Shock: I am sorry guys.Well Ultimate Hawkeye is as skilled as 616 in archery,but their critical difference is that Ult Hawkeye is a lot more skilled at h2h combat and he more ruthless.Static just stated a very good example of Ult Hawkeyes skills.

@Stronger: i didn't read Ultimates that much. I don't need scans(unless you got them) but can you recall a few things that Ult. Hawkeye did? Also you think it's enough to put him above Classic Tchalla with the herb and vibranium suit?

@pooty: What I do know is that shock arrows, electric net arrows and sonic arrows have no effect on the suit. Klaw couldn't affect T'Challa with his powers, and the suit absorb electricity. Titanium arrows won't be of much help, either.

@Static Shock: T'Challa's vibranium suit only has one weakness: Alyosha Kravinoff.

Ultimate Hawkeye.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Static Shock: T'Challa's vibranium suit only has one weakness: Alyosha Kravinoff.

LOOOL

@k4tzm4n: Hah! He actually has three. You forgot Red Skull and Killmonger. LOL.

I just tend to assume he isn't wearing the suit at all, unless explicitly stated or shown. Hence the Red Skull/Aly showings.

@Morpheus_ said:

I just tend to assume he isn't wearing the suit at all, unless explicitly stated or shown. Hence the Red Skull/Aly showings.

I want to assume the same thing for the Red Skull and Killmonger fight (volume 2), though. But, he did wear the suit against Aly. In the following issue, the suit protected him as a group of gangsters emptied their clips on him as he was shackled to the floor (where Aly left him).

@Morpheus_ said:

I just tend to assume he isn't wearing the suit at all, unless explicitly stated or shown. Hence the Red Skull/Aly showings.

Didn't the Aly encounter series of issues include the moment he's tied down and hit with a bunch of automatic rifles at point blank range? Or am I meshing my limited T'Challa reading together?

And hold up, T'Challa had a tough fight with the Red Skull? I've gotta see that, lol.

@Static Shock said:

@Morpheus_ said:

I just tend to assume he isn't wearing the suit at all, unless explicitly stated or shown. Hence the Red Skull/Aly showings.

I want to assume the same thing for the Red Skull and Killmonger fight (volume 2), though. But, he did wear the suit against Aly. In the following issue, the suit protected him as a group of gangsters emptied their clips on him as he was shackled to the floor (where Aly left him).

I trust your memory better than my own in this matter. It just seems odd given the manner in which Alyosha was inflicting harm to him during their fight.

@k4tzm4n: T'Challa promised he'd break the Skull's jaw. He did.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Morpheus_ said:

I just tend to assume he isn't wearing the suit at all, unless explicitly stated or shown. Hence the Red Skull/Aly showings.

Didn't the Aly encounter series of issues include the moment he's tied down and hit with a bunch of automatic rifles at point blank range? Or am I meshing my limited T'Challa reading together?

And yes, this happened.

@Morpheus_: +1 memory. Huzzah.

@k4tzm4n: Hard to believe, but this intense showing is courtesy of a guy called Geoff Johns.

Gallery

@Morpheus_ said:

I trust your memory better than my own in this matter. It just seems odd given the manner in which Alyosha was inflicting harm to him during their fight.

It is weird. There's a lot of inconsistency surrounding the suit's use, even from the guy he wrote into canon (Priest).

@Morpheus_: Before he was renamed Geoffcon.

@Morpheus_: Intense indeed.

@k4tzm4n: Hard to believe, but this intense showing is courtesy of a guy called Geoff Johns.

Gallery

@Nefarious: Avengers v3 # 70.

@Morpheus_: @Static Shock: In BB fight with Red Skull was BB drugged or weakened? Or should Red Skull have normally given him such a good fight? It looks like if it wasn't for Falcon, BP would have lost that fight.

@pooty said:

@Morpheus_: @Static Shock: In BB fight with Red Skull was BB drugged or weakened?

No.

@pooty said:

@Stronger: i didn't read Ultimates that much. I don't need scans(unless you got them) but can you recall a few things that Ult. Hawkeye did? Also you think it's enough to put him above Classic Tchalla with the herb and vibranium suit?

that's what I'm wondering. It sounds like Ult. Hawkeye is basically 616 Bullseye. If that's the case then I'm leaning towards BP.

@pooty said:

@Morpheus_: @Static Shock: In BB fight with Red Skull was BB drugged or weakened? Or should Red Skull have normally given him such a good fight? It looks like if it wasn't for Falcon, BP would have lost that fight.

Black Panther wasn't weakened. Red Skull was just written to give Black Panther a good fight. As for Falcon being the reason why Red Skull lost, I doubt it. On the second to last page, T'Challa headbutts Red Skull, before he's distracted by all of those birds on the following page. T'Challa would have won, regardless.

@Stronger said:

I am sorry guys.Well Ultimate Hawkeye is as skilled as 616 in archery,but their critical difference is that Ult Hawkeye is a lot more skilled at h2h combat and he more ruthless.Static just stated a very good example of Ult Hawkeyes skills.

Since when? I only remember him using projectile weapons.

Ult. Hawkeye was killing immensely powerful mutants in Indonesia or something around there with shards of glass he picked up off the ground. Oh, and he killed armed intruders with kitchen utensils. T'challa better bring his A-game.

@Static Shock: I can roll with Skull being written to give him a good fight. But even after BP head butts him, in the next scan red skull has both his hands around BP neck and BP is doing nothing back. Then Red Skull is distracted by birds and BP wins. making it see like the distraction was needed for tchalla to win

@pooty said:

@Static Shock: I can roll with Skull being written to give him a good fight. But even after BP head butts him, in the next scan red skull has both his hands around BP neck and BP is doing nothing back.

Because the birds caught him off guard, too. Thing is, they didn't attack him, they attacked Skull. He took advantage of that.

Without the distraction, the outcome of the battle would have been ambiguous, if you really want to take it there.

@pooty said:

@Stronger: i didn't read Ultimates that much. I don't need scans(unless you got them) but can you recall a few things that Ult. Hawkeye did? Also you think it's enough to put him above Classic Tchalla with the herb and vibranium suit?

I think he has some trick arrows made from adamantium or something.

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Stronger said:

I am sorry guys.Well Ultimate Hawkeye is as skilled as 616 in archery,but their critical difference is that Ult Hawkeye is a lot more skilled at h2h combat and he more ruthless.Static just stated a very good example of Ult Hawkeyes skills.

Since when? I only remember him using projectile weapons.

You 're kidin me??? Ult Hawkeye is A LOT more skilled than 616 Hawkeye.Look at what Static posted.

@Stronger said:

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Stronger said:

I am sorry guys.Well Ultimate Hawkeye is as skilled as 616 in archery,but their critical difference is that Ult Hawkeye is a lot more skilled at h2h combat and he more ruthless.Static just stated a very good example of Ult Hawkeyes skills.

Since when? I only remember him using projectile weapons.

You 're kidin me??? Ult Hawkeye is A LOT more skilled than 616 Hawkeye.Look at what Static posted.

Yeah, and? They're not h2h combat feats. In all the examples given by Static (and the ones that I have read), Ult Hawkeye is using some form of projectile based weapon. Whether that be bows, guns or even his own finger nails. So, again, how is Ult Hawkeye "a lot more skilled at h2h combat" than his 616 counterpart?

@Illuminatus said:

Ult. Hawkeye was killing immensely powerful mutants in Indonesia or something around there with shards of glass he picked up off the ground. Oh, and he killed armed intruders with kitchen utensils. T'challa better bring his A-game.

LOL , what a feat , he killed a bunch of goon-robbers with a knife ? T'Challa will have to go back to the drawing board if he wants to beat Ult. Hawkeye after that showing.

I think T'Challa can beat him , his ;suit , agility , speed and the setting of a busy bridge with lots of cars (cover) means he could probably close the distance without being taken out and if it goes to hand to hand , I think T'Challa with powers has physicality and skill over him.

T'Challa 7/10 if he can close the gap.

I'm not too learned on the Ult. Universe so I could probably be swayed if adequate feats are shown for Hawkeye

@CaptainRodgers said:

@Illuminatus said:

Ult. Hawkeye was killing immensely powerful mutants in Indonesia or something around there with shards of glass he picked up off the ground. Oh, and he killed armed intruders with kitchen utensils. T'challa better bring his A-game.

LOL , what a feat , he killed a bunch of goon-robbers with a knife ? T'Challa will have to go back to the drawing board if he wants to beat Ult. Hawkeye after that showing.

No. He simply has to go back to Marvel Comics Presents # 36, in which T'Challa barely defeated a single "goon-robber" as you so eloquently put it.

@Morpheus_ said:

@CaptainRodgers said:

@Illuminatus said:

Ult. Hawkeye was killing immensely powerful mutants in Indonesia or something around there with shards of glass he picked up off the ground. Oh, and he killed armed intruders with kitchen utensils. T'challa better bring his A-game.

LOL , what a feat , he killed a bunch of goon-robbers with a knife ? T'Challa will have to go back to the drawing board if he wants to beat Ult. Hawkeye after that showing.

No. He simply has to go back to Marvel Comics Presents # 36, in which T'Challa barely defeated a single "goon-robber" as you so eloquently put it.

I've not read that but everyone has low end showings , T'Challa struggling with fodder is obviously bad writing .

My point was that Illuminatus posted a pretty unimpressive feat despite the fact that (I'm pretty sure) Hawkeye has more impressive ones , that would actually be relevant seen as beating fodder is pretty much the minimum requirement to be considered a super hero.

@CaptainRodgers said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@CaptainRodgers said:

@Illuminatus said:

Ult. Hawkeye was killing immensely powerful mutants in Indonesia or something around there with shards of glass he picked up off the ground. Oh, and he killed armed intruders with kitchen utensils. T'challa better bring his A-game.

LOL , what a feat , he killed a bunch of goon-robbers with a knife ? T'Challa will have to go back to the drawing board if he wants to beat Ult. Hawkeye after that showing.

No. He simply has to go back to Marvel Comics Presents # 36, in which T'Challa barely defeated a single "goon-robber" as you so eloquently put it.

I've not read that but everyone has low end showings , T'Challa struggling with fodder is obviously bad writing .

My point was that Illuminatus posted a pretty unimpressive feat despite the fact that (I'm pretty sure) Hawkeye has more impressive ones , that would actually be relevant seen as beating fodder is pretty much the minimum requirement to be considered a super hero.

The point was not whom he defeated. It was the manner in which he did it.

@Morpheus_ said:

@CaptainRodgers said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@CaptainRodgers said:

@Illuminatus said:

Ult. Hawkeye was killing immensely powerful mutants in Indonesia or something around there with shards of glass he picked up off the ground. Oh, and he killed armed intruders with kitchen utensils. T'challa better bring his A-game.

LOL , what a feat , he killed a bunch of goon-robbers with a knife ? T'Challa will have to go back to the drawing board if he wants to beat Ult. Hawkeye after that showing.

No. He simply has to go back to Marvel Comics Presents # 36, in which T'Challa barely defeated a single "goon-robber" as you so eloquently put it.

I've not read that but everyone has low end showings , T'Challa struggling with fodder is obviously bad writing .

My point was that Illuminatus posted a pretty unimpressive feat despite the fact that (I'm pretty sure) Hawkeye has more impressive ones , that would actually be relevant seen as beating fodder is pretty much the minimum requirement to be considered a super hero.

The point was not whom he defeated. It was the manner in which he did it.

Who are you talking about ?

Hawkeye beating thugs with kitchen utensils or BP struggling with a thug ? neither hold any particular relevance .

- BP should be able to take out several thugs with ease .

- Beating thugs with kitchen utensils isn't particularly impressive .

Back on topic however , do you agree BP takes it ?

@CaptainRodgers: Do you see no relevance in mentioning the improvisational skills required to defeat a squad of trained soldiers (not thugs) after Hawkeye was ambushed and taken by surprise in his own home? You might not be impressed (despite not having read it), but it is of importance as one of his skills. Everything can be a weapon to him. That was the point. Not that he defeated any kind of character that you try to discredit.

T'Challa wins because Hawkeye is unlikely to be able to even scathe him in the vibranium suit. The contest would had been much better if T'Challa was using his regular outfit.

@Morpheus_ said:

@CaptainRodgers: Do you see no relevance in mentioning the improvisational skills required to defeat a squad of trained soldiers (not thugs) after Hawkeye was ambushed and taken by surprise in his own home? You might not be impressed (despite not having read it), but it is of importance as one of his skills. Everything can be a weapon to him. That was the point. Not that he defeated any kind of character that you try to discredit.

T'Challa wins because Hawkeye is unlikely to be able to even scathe him in the vibranium suit. The contest would had been much better if T'Challa was using his regular outfit.

It was to my understanding that it was robbers due to Illuminatus labeling them "armed intruders" , just sounds like robbers . If he had said it was a squad of trained soldiers who surprise ambushed him I would have thought differently . I never claimed to have read that comic I just assumed I also didn't "try discredit " anyone.

if you knew I incorrectly presumed in the first place why didn't you correct me rather than letting me continue making misinformed points , stitch up ! :P

Agreed on the outcome of the fight.

@Stronger said:

You 're kidin me??? Ult Hawkeye is A LOT more skilled than 616 Hawkeye.Look at what Static posted.

Nothing in my post says that Ultimate Hawkeye fights better than 616 Hawkeye....

@Morpheus_ said:

No. He simply has to go back to Marvel Comics Presents # 36, in which T'Challa barely defeated a single "goon-robber" as you so eloquently put it.

I remember that crappy fight. T'Challa should have defeated him with ease. -_-