Classic Beyonder-Primal Monitor vs Thanos/HOTU-Michael/Lucifer

who wins

Pre-Recton Beyonder solos.

@NeonGameWave said:

Pre-Recton Beyonder solos.

HOTU > PR Beyonder

@matmatxm8: PR Beyonder>/=Thanos HOTU

If he doesn`t solo he at least stalemates.

Primal Monitors Power can only be Speculated based on that Mandarrk said and did but him and PR beyonder should win based on a mix of showing and speculation

@NeonGameWave said:

@matmatxm8: PR Beyonder>/=Thanos HOTU

If he doesn`t solo he at least stalemates.

don't forget that there is primal monitor in there

primal monitor = Presence

Primal Monitor can beat the Presence's two favorite sons "Michael and Lucifer"

and then primal monitor proceeds into helping Pre-retcon Beyonder in beating Hotu Thanos

Team 1 FTW

@matmatxm8: Agreed.

Primal Monitor is a concept.

With that Beyonder vs Thanos/Lucifer/Michael is either a stalemate or Beyonder.

There is just about nothing suggesting that Primal Monitor is on par with Michael or Lucifer, let alone the presence.

omnipotence vs omnipotence arent these battles banned

@thanosii said:

omnipotence vs omnipotence arent these battles banned

They are not omnipotent. Since Lucifer can't create something out of nowhere.

pre retcon beyonder vs hotu thanos is banned and this wat it is

@thanosii said:

pre retcon beyonder vs hotu thanos is banned and this wat it is

Why's that?

Team 1 or maybe a stalemate , Michael & Lucy are non factors here , other 3 are omnipotents

Beyonder solo,

those are Beyonder's feats on panel and out panel :

ON PANEL :

1. Beyonder was never defeated in combat, no one can defeat him. what happened in the last issue of Secret Wars 2 is not a defeat.
2. No one can defeat Beyonder unless Beyonder himself wishes so. he's invincible.
3. Beyonder is stronger than all Marvel universe and its beings combined by far (including LT, Eternity, Infinity...)
4. Beyonder was stated clearly to be omnipotent in writer's panels in almost every issue of Secret Wars 1 & 2.
5. Beyonder was limiting greatly his power to fit in Marvel universe, because his essence is much bigger.
6. the entire Marvel universe compared to Beyonder was like a droplet of water in the ocean.
7. Molecule Man who is stronger than any being in the multiverse (including LT, Eternity,...) is very weak compared to Beyonder, the difference in power between him and Beyonder is like the infinite difference between Captain America and Molecule Man. if you can imagine all abstracts standing against Beyonder, it would be like a bunch of under Captain America level warriors standing to someone stronger than LT. can you imagine that!!
8. everything in the entire Marvel existence is equal to Beyonder's imagination. reality itself is Beyonder's imagination.

OUT PANEL:

1. according to Jim Shooter ex-head of Marvel HQ, where Beyonder existed he was everything and everything was him, in a sense he was like God before there was Genesis. meaning he's as Godly as TOAA, Presence and MoM, before there was even creation.
2. when Beyonder discovered existence, it was like when the Dutch inventor Van Leeuwenhoek, looked through his microscope and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water.
3. according to Stan Lee, Beyonder was TOAA of his own actuality (like TOAA in his actuality Marvel, and Presence in his actuality DC, and Man Of Miracles in his actuality Image), the purpose of his original existence was to explain the existence of the other comic companies and their own universal laws and structure with their own supreme beings.

untill, the 4 other characters have enough feats to challenge those, Beyonder solo this fight.

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

Beyonder solo,

those are Beyonder's feats on panel and out panel :

ON PANEL :

1. Beyonder was never defeated in combat, no one can defeat him. what happened in the last issue of Secret Wars 2 is not a defeat.
2. No one can defeat Beyonder unless Beyonder himself wishes so. he's invincible.
3. Beyonder is stronger than all Marvel universe and its beings combined by far (including LT, Eternity, Infinity...)
4. Beyonder was stated clearly to be omnipotent in writer's panels in almost every issue of Secret Wars 1 & 2.
5. Beyonder was limiting greatly his power to fit in Marvel universe, because his essence is much bigger.
6. the entire Marvel universe compared to Beyonder was like a droplet of water in the ocean.
7. Molecule Man who is stronger than any being in the multiverse (including LT, Eternity,...) is very weak compared to Beyonder, the difference in power between him and Beyonder is like the infinite difference between Captain America and Molecule Man. if you can imagine all abstracts standing against Beyonder, it would be like a bunch of under Captain America level warriors standing to someone stronger than LT. can you imagine that!!
8. everything in the entire Marvel existence is equal to Beyonder's imagination. reality itself is Beyonder's imagination.

OUT PANEL:

1. according to Jim Shooter ex-head of Marvel HQ, where Beyonder existed he was everything and everything was him, in a sense he was like God before there was Genesis. meaning he's as Godly as TOAA, Presence and MoM, before there was even creation.
2. when Beyonder discovered existence, it was like when the Dutch inventor Van Leeuwenhoek, looked through his microscope and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water.
3. according to Stan Lee, Beyonder was TOAA of his own actuality (like TOAA in his actuality Marvel, and Presence in his actuality DC, and Man Of Miracles in his actuality Image), the purpose of his original existence was to explain the existence of the other comic companies and their own universal laws and structure with their own supreme beings.

untill, the 4 other characters have enough feats to challenge those, Beyonder solo this fight.

Didn't TOAA wanted Thanos to destroy the existence so he could recreate it? Also, i don't think The Beyonder can challenge TOAA. He probably gave his pwoerrs to him to see how a ignorant being would go with God powers:

When a bartender asks the demon Mephisto whether the Living Tribunal, having created the Infinite Embassy, was actually "God", Mephisto responds, "No, he's not God. He's just the biggest kid in all the playgrounds. And if he knows the Principal, he's not exactly chatty about it

@Frocharocha said:

@thanosii said:

omnipotence vs omnipotence arent these battles banned

They are not omnipotent. Since Lucifer can't create something out of nowhere.

Thanos with the HOTU is basically omnipotent.

@MonsterStomp said:

@Frocharocha said:

@thanosii said:

omnipotence vs omnipotence arent these battles banned

They are not omnipotent. Since Lucifer can't create something out of nowhere.

Thanos with the HOTU is basically omnipotent.

From wikia:

Thanos realizes that the One-Above-All has subtly manipulated him into destroying and recreating the Universe using its Heart in order to fix a fundamental flaw.

@Frocharocha: yes yes!! probably TOAA led Thanos to destroy existence, but what i can't accept is the saying that HOTU is TOAA's power, i mean no one except Thanos himself claims that, and there is no clear proof.

Also, i don't think The Beyonder can challenge TOAA. He probably gave his pwoerrs to him to see how a ignorant being would go with God powers:

When a bartender asks the demon Mephisto whether the Living Tribunal, having created the Infinite Embassy, was actually "God", Mephisto responds, "No, he's not God. He's just the biggest kid in all the playgrounds. And if he knows the Principal, he's not exactly chatty about it

no, basically Beyonder was created to explain the existence of the other comic companies and their own universal laws and Gods. in my opinion, Beyonder visiting Marvel existence is like if the Presence visited Marvel Universe and played around with existence to study a few things.

Classic beyonder is just soo powerful

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

1. Beyonder was stated clearly to be omnipotent in writer's panels in almost every issue of Secret Wars 1 & 2.
2. Beyonder was limiting greatly his power to fit in Marvel universe, because his essence is much bigger.

1. Odin is also stated to be omnipotent.

2. From where did you get that ?

@Metalslash said:

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

1. Beyonder was stated clearly to be omnipotent in writer's panels in almost every issue of Secret Wars 1 & 2.
2. Beyonder was limiting greatly his power to fit in Marvel universe, because his essence is much bigger.

1. Odin is also stated to be omnipotent.

2. From where did you get that ?

1. if i remember well, Odin was stated as omnipotent by his son Thor, which is irrelevent and questionable. it's normal that a son praises his father and king, add to that, omnipotence was mentioned in a character panel, and character panels are always questionable, while writer's panels represent the description of the truth.

2. as i said he limits himself a lot, and most of the times obeyed to physic's laws just to fit in this fragile universe. there is so many scans where he shows his self-limit, those are some of them :

Thanos with HOTU solos.

@All_Mighty_Beyonder: All those scans proves that he was actually holding back at those instances.It doesn't proves that beyonder entered marvel multiverse after decreasing or limiting his powers. He had all his powers all the time before retconed.

And IIRC LT is also stated to be omnipotent in writer's panel.

@Metalslash said:

@All_Mighty_Beyonder: All those scans proves that he was actually holding back at those instances.It doesn't proves that beyonder entered marvel multiverse after decreasing or limiting his powers. He had all his powers all the time before retconed.

And IIRC LT is also stated to be omnipotent in writer's panel.

uuh!! that's what i said. he didn't keep most of his powers away in beyond or something, he just was limiting himself to fit in the universe and its laws.

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@Metalslash said:

@All_Mighty_Beyonder: All those scans proves that he was actually holding back at those instances.It doesn't proves that beyonder entered marvel multiverse after decreasing or limiting his powers. He had all his powers all the time before retconed.

And IIRC LT is also stated to be omnipotent in writer's panel.

uuh!! that's what i said. he didn't keep most of his powers away in beyond or something, he just was limiting himself to fit in the universe and its laws.

Okey, I misinterpretd your statements.

team 1 most likely wins

The biggest question has to be asked, who exactly is the primal monitor, and what exactly are his feats? I've heard people say he saw the DCU as a spec or insect or something like that, that's not actually a feat, so, how has he even been used in a battle with absolutely no on panel time or feats period???? just asking.

@matmatxm8 said:

@NeonGameWave said:

@matmatxm8: PR Beyonder>/=Thanos HOTU

If he doesn`t solo he at least stalemates.

primal monitor = Presence

Primal Monitor can beat the Presence's two favorite sons "Michael and Lucifer"

Can I ask what this is based on?? Can you please back any of this up and post some scans that can clarify at least if not back these statements up??

@LubeMan:

I don't have good explanation,

I only heard this opinion from other viner,

I will ask them why is Primal monitor being equal to presence,

by the way, I don't mean mandrakk the dark monitor,

I actually mean Primal monitor

Primal monitor solos stop trolling

Primal Monitor solos, Pre-Recton Beyonder solos.

Team 1 beyonder could solo.

@ass143: Why did you bump a year old thread I

@ass143: Why did you bump a year old thread if you think it is spite?

Team 1

It hasn't been confirmed that the Primal Monitor is Omnipotent, so Team 2 can in fact stand a chance or win; depending on your views to PR Beyonder Vs Thanos HOTU IMO.

Is this Lucifer Morningstar?

How is Beyonder supposed to solo this

Primal Monitor is basically everything. It is Michael Demiurgos, Lucifer Morningstar, Presence, the DC multiverse. All exist within Primal Monitor. In theory it should stomp since it is DC itself.

@mysticmedivh: Where is your proof, because people say that about the Presence as well.

IIRC Superman said that the entire multiverse grows inside of it, but I'll do my best to try to find the scan.

@thebestofthebest: @bullettimer: @kingant27: @mysticmedivh: mismatch. the Primal Monitor is omnipotent. if you want to know more, just PM me about these characters.

@saren@deranged_midget@god_spawn@aztek_the_lost

Never said he was.

@mysticmedivh: i did. and it is.

the presence is not a writer, he is supreme being in DCU.

just answer these

the presence, TOAA...all made their creations on it.

half a probe of it is as powerful as the wrath of god with amps

just by going there, the experience almost erased the being with the power of 52 universes.

lucifer and the presence went outside the DCU, and was shown as nothing. there, it is timeless. nothingness. just blank, white, canvas.

lucifer also went amost crazy for a few seconds when a creation just rose and fell in front of his eyes, he took in all 20 billions years of everything that happened in no time.

lucifers experience there: to disincline your eyes and mind to that new perspective to see time where no time is, takes an effort of will almost beyond imagining.

'and this is the heartbeat of eternity. creations rise and fall'

'the proportion of it that can be filled amounts, in the end, to zero'

'since past and present has no real meaning here, to argue about whether this creation came before or after Yahwehs is futile.' (the survivor of said creation is the silk man, not himself) this shows still, even first or second creations have no meaning

the interview:

What happens if the page is a bit pissed off at the story that's drawn on it? So I thought of the page as God. The idea being that the Overvoid – as we called it in Final Crisis - of the white page as a space is sort of God. And it's condensing stories out of itself because it finds inside its own gigantic white space, self-absorbed pristine consciousness, it finds this little stain or mark, this DC Multiverse somebody has 'drawn'. And it starts investigating, and it's just shocked with what it sees, with all the crazy activity and signifying going on in there. It then tries to protect itself from the seething contact with 'story' and imagines a race of beings, 'angels' or 'monitors' (another word for angel, of course) to function as an interface between its own giant eternal magnificence and this tiny, weird crawling anthill of life and significance that is the DC Multiverse.

— Grant Morrison, Interviewed on IGN.

I read your original statement as "Primal Monitor isn't omnipotent", to which I replied with "I never said he was."

Then reread and I realized that you said "Primal Monitor is omnipotent", my bad.

Though I often see Grant Morrison, the one that appeared in Animal Man, to be above Primal Monitor.

Anyways, INB4 Lock.