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#1 Posted by jashro44 (23692 posts) - - Show Bio

Apologies if this has been done before but the new search function is pretty bad

VS

Rules

  • Morals are on
  • Random encounter
  • Win by any means except BFR
  • Fight takes place on an indestructible planet

Who wins and why?

#2 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I have recently learned about Citizen Steel. I'm going to go with him.

#3 Edited by jashro44 (23692 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#4 Edited by beatboks1 (7411 posts) - - Show Bio

With Hulk's the madder I get the stronger I get and potentially limitless strength, he could in theory eventually get stronger. the thing is I just don't see how he puts Heyward down. Hulk has a massive healing factor but Heywood regrew a leg that had been amputated before he got his powers and NOTHING hurts him. I mean even GOG coulnd't move him when he could throw around ALL the rest of the JSA ( which included E-22/ kingdom come Superman and Powergirl) His durability is through the roof. When someone like Mr terrific can put you in a blast furnace that melts the strongest alloy used in the space program and it doesn't hurt you or pouring that molten alloy over you doesn't that's pretty hard to take down.

#5 Posted by Saren (26014 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk eventually.

Moderator Online
#6 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like Hulk could take him.

Isn't CS's body indestructable?

#7 Posted by papabearg4d (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

With Hulk's the madder I get the stronger I get and potentially limitless strength, he could in theory eventually get stronger. the thing is I just don't see how he puts Heyward down. Hulk has a massive healing factor but Heywood regrew a leg that had been amputated before he got his powers and NOTHING hurts him. I mean even GOG coulnd't move him when he could throw around ALL the rest of the JSA ( which included E-22/ kingdom come Superman and Powergirl) His durability is through the roof. When someone like Mr terrific can put you in a blast furnace that melts the strongest alloy used in the space program and it doesn't hurt you or pouring that molten alloy over you doesn't that's pretty hard to take down.

Citizen Steel is really powerful. I think Citizen Steel got this.

#8 Edited by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

from what ive seen Citizen Steel is stronger

#9 Edited by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

Citizen Steel

#10 Posted by beatboks1 (7411 posts) - - Show Bio

from what ive seen Citizen Steel is stronger

I wouldn't say he is stronger, NO. CS doesn't really have any quantifiable strength feats only comparative ones. The problem with using them is we end up having to apply ABC logic which is never really accurate. For example we have CS strong enough that eh could not be moved by Gog while the same Gog moved E-22 Superman easily. Yes we can say based on one teaming up that E-22 Superman has shown greater stats than the new earth Superman. But then again the same E-22 Superman was pretty easily handled by a black Lantern E-2 Superman who in turn went down to New Earth. So which feats do we accept of decline to put the CS feat in perspective. The answer is because of the wholesale inconsistency we can't really apply any to gauge the feat.

#11 Posted by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#12 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

Still going with CS but i can see a case being made for the hulk EVENTUALLY winning if CS doesnt put him down quickly

#13 Posted by dum529001 (1651 posts) - - Show Bio

hmmmm......

#14 Edited by patrat18 (10661 posts) - - Show Bio

Cs really that strong? Anybody have a respect thread for him or feats?

#15 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

HULK SMASH puny STAR-SPANGLED DORK!!!

#16 Posted by M_Man (893 posts) - - Show Bio

HULK SMASH FRUITY COLORED MAN

#17 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@m_man said:

HULK SMASH FRUITY COLORED MAN

^^Win

#18 Edited by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

Cs really that strong? Anybody have a respect thread for him or feats?

#19 Posted by patrat18 (10661 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

Cs really that strong? Anybody have a respect thread for him or feats?

Well damn.

#20 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Edited by GhostRavage (9297 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, apparently those are the only feats CS posses. Hulk smash.

#22 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk's faster. Hulk has shown strength feats equal to and above that of CS, at least from what I 've seen and read of the character. Citizen Steel seems like the more durable man tbh. Still got to give it to Hulk.

#23 Posted by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, apparently those are the only feats CS posses. Hulk smash.

Obviously some characters have been around longer and have more feats than others. But, it's the quality of feats that matters, not the quantity.

#24 Edited by GhostRavage (9297 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Using a 1 time instance is a bit unpractical. Citizen Steel has been around since 1988... And that particular issue with Magog and Gog is the only one that's always used to argue for him. That's like me using Trion Juggernaut all the time because that's his strongest feat.

That being said, those feats are overrated. Not even Superman pushing the infiniteness of Spectre is as overrated as those feats you posted.

"Ah, he didn't move when Magog punched him and he made Gog fall by punching him in the knee... " Are those the ONLY feats that worth the mention, is Citizen Steel defined by 1 instance? You CAN'T make an argument for someone using only 1 instance if he has 107 issues.

#25 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

Yes, apparently those are the only feats CS posses. Hulk smash.

Obviously some characters have been around longer and have more feats than others. But, it's the quality of feats that matters, not the quantity.

bingo.

#26 Posted by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Using a 1 time instance is a bit unpractical. Citizen Steel has been around since 1988... And that particular issue with Magog and Gog is the only one that's always used to argue for him. That's like me using Trion Juggernaut all the time because that's his strongest feat.

That being said, those feats are overrated. Not even Superman pushing the infiniteness of Spectre is as overrated as those feats you posted.

"Ah, he didn't move when Magog punched him and he made Gog fall by punching him in the knee... " Are those the ONLY feats that worth the mention, is Citizen Steel defined by 1 instance? You CAN'T make an argument for someone using only 1 instance if he has 107 issues.

Actually I believe Citizen Steel has only been around since 2007 when he was introduced in the new JSA comic.

So, we clearly dont have as many showings with him as for Hulk. But, what's interesting about these showings is that he's not amped or even trying his hardest... in fact when he knocks Magog into the air he does it extremely casually. Even against Gog, he's not bloodlusted or enraged. We've never seen him bloodlusted or even trying that hard. I dont even think we've even ever seen him hurt in any way. And, mind you, that even just to put on the suit he has to go through this:

And he doenst even feel that, much less does it even hurt him. So, yeah, his durability is off the charts.

#27 Posted by GhostRavage (9297 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Nice, with more feats an argument could be actually made for Citizen instead of "he punched gog, he obviously wins".

That being said, that's more of a heat base durability feat, pretty much like Hulk shrugging off Torch's Nova Attack unphased. Blunt and Sonic would be the one's necessary to argue against Hulk.

#28 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

We make battles all the time that are based on characters with small amounts of appearances. Examples: World Breaker Hulk(6 appearances as per a mod) Trion Juggs, H'el, etc. etc. etc. This one is no different. I dont see why people are crying and complaining now.

#29 Posted by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

While CS's feats are few, they are consistent which is the important thing. If he had one great feats and one low one, then you can make the case that he's being overrated. But, all his feats so far point to him being extremely strong and durable. Hell... the guys first feat was to regrow an entire leg.

#30 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

While CS's feats are few, they are consistent which is the important thing. If he had one great feats and one low one, then you can make the case that he's being overrated. But, all his feats so far point to him being extremely strong and durable. Hell... the guys first feat was to regrow an entire leg.

oh damn. yea theres no reason to ignore his feats cause theres a small number. hell in that case nobody should make a battle with a new 52 character in it cause of such small amount of issues. what are we on so far? 24? 25? and yet we see these battles all the time

#31 Posted by RBT (4477 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm with Steel on this one.

#32 Edited by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

While CS's feats are few, they are consistent which is the important thing. If he had one great feats and one low one, then you can make the case that he's being overrated. But, all his feats so far point to him being extremely strong and durable. Hell... the guys first feat was to regrow an entire leg.

oh damn. yea theres no reason to ignore his feats cause theres a small number. hell in that case nobody should make a battle with a new 52 character in it cause of such small amount of issues. what are we on so far? 24? 25? and yet we see these battles all the time

Here's that scan for those who are interested...

#33 Posted by MonsterStomp (19852 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Know where I can read up on CS? He looks interesting.

#34 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

I remember that Citizen Steel also was losing battles and that he was taken care of easier than Power Girl or Supergirl. And neither would really survive Hulk's best.

#35 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (6835 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk.

#36 Edited by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

I remember that Citizen Steel also was losing battles and that he was taken care of easier than Power Girl or Supergirl. And neither would really survive Hulk's best.

Either Power Girl or Supergirl can beat Hulk.

@willpayton: Know where I can read up on CS? He looks interesting.

You can find the JSA comics since 2007.

#37 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

I remember that Citizen Steel also was losing battles and that he was taken care of easier than Power Girl or Supergirl. And neither would really survive Hulk's best.

Either Power Girl or Supergirl can beat Hulk.

Neither can do this. Neither have strength or durability feats and they don't use speed effectively, a specially against brutes.

Power Girl was one-shotted by Despero, Black Adam, she on her knnes because of Grundy. Only Despero is above Hulk from these people. Grundy and Adam doesn't have even close strength feats to Hulk.

Of course until You have scans of these people holdin mountain chain, overpowering planet-level force field (fight with Stranger) or pulling tectonic plates.

Black Adam's best feat is throwing away big ship, something just above Sasquatch, nothing comparable to Hulk's. And we're talking about guy, who stomped Power Girl.

#38 Edited by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

I remember that Citizen Steel also was losing battles and that he was taken care of easier than Power Girl or Supergirl. And neither would really survive Hulk's best.

Either Power Girl or Supergirl can beat Hulk.

Neither can do this. Neither have strength or durability feats and they don't use speed effectively, a specially against brutes.

Power Girl was one-shotted by Despero, Black Adam, she on her knnes because of Grundy. Only Despero is above Hulk from these people. Grundy and Adam doesn't have even close strength feats to Hulk.

Of course until You have scans of these people holdin mountain chain, overpowering planet-level force field (fight with Stranger) or pulling tectonic plates.

Black Adam's best feat is throwing away big ship, something just above Sasquatch, nothing comparable to Hulk's. And we're talking about guy, who stomped Power Girl.

Any of the people you mentioned at their best (i.e. without PIS) would beat Hulk. Black Adam would beat him to a bloody green pulp. Any of Supergirl, Power Girl, or BA are way too fast for Hulk to even hit them without PIS.

#39 Edited by beatboks1 (7411 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Know where I can read up on CS? He looks interesting.

Justice Sociaety of America numbers 7 (Sept 2007), 20,21,22 and JSA all Stars. That's pretty much it. CS is listed as appearing in almost 30 issues of Justice Society of America but the first few were all of Nathan Heywood before he became CS and the majority were mere cameo's. There were two or may three other issues of JSA where he maybe got two or three panels of action (one where he stood in the grounds of a uni or something while PG threw the bad guy's his way because his suit made him so damn slow), but nothing worth buying an issue solely for his participation. Blame Johns as during this period he increased the team membership so much that th majority couldn't have more than a cameo an issue. Even in All Stars he doesn't get to do much.

#40 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

Why people are keep saying that, without any scans?

Seriously - Superman at his best is moon level. Adam is much below him. Power Girl and Supergirl are below both of them. Savage Hulk can reach planet level of strength, which is above Superman.

PIS =/= CIS. Without PIS Hulk still wins with Adam, Power Girl or Supergirl.

These people don't use thier speed effectively in their battles, a specially against brutes. It is not PIS that Adam get punched by Superman at normal speed (other people could normally see the fight), it is not PIS that Atom Smasher BFRd him with a punch. A specially that Black Adam isn't a speedster anyway - he just can run and fly fast. But this isn't about BA - it is about strength and durability level, because it is relevant to the thread.

Show me PG/SG or Adam making feats on Hulk's level.

#41 Posted by MonsterStomp (19852 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@willpayton: Know where I can read up on CS? He looks interesting.

Justice Sociaety of America numbers 7 (Sept 2007), 20,21,22 and JSA all Stars. That's pretty much it. CS is listed as appearing in almost 30 issues of Justice Society of America but the first few were all of Nathan Heywood before he became CS and the majority were mere cameo's. There were two or may three other issues of JSA where he maybe got two or three panels of action (one where he stood in the grounds of a uni or something while PG threw the bad guy's his way because his suit made him so damn slow), but nothing worth buying an issue solely for his participation. Blame Johns as during this period he increased the team membership so much that th majority couldn't have more than a cameo an issue. Even in All Stars he doesn't get to do much.

I'm surprised the guy has enough feats to contend with Hulk. I still might check out the issues you suggested.

#42 Edited by DeathandGrim (2072 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

Why people are keep saying that, without any scans?

Seriously - Superman at his best is moon level. Adam is much below him. Power Girl and Supergirl are below both of them. Savage Hulk can reach planet level of strength, which is above Superman.

PIS =/= CIS. Without PIS Hulk still wins with Adam, Power Girl or Supergirl.

These people don't use thier speed effectively in their battles, a specially against brutes. It is not PIS that Adam get punched by Superman at normal speed (other people could normally see the fight), it is not PIS that Atom Smasher BFRd him with a punch. A specially that Black Adam isn't a speedster anyway - he just can run and fly fast. But this isn't about BA - it is about strength and durability level, because it is relevant to the thread.

Show me PG/SG or Adam making feats on Hulk's level.

...

#43 Edited by WaveMotionCannon (5608 posts) - - Show Bio

#5 Posted by CitizenBane (22655 posts) - 7 months, 8 days ago - Show Bio

Hulk eventually.

This

#44 Posted by beatboks1 (7411 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

Superman at his best is moon level.

Gonna have to disagree with that.

First two scans are Superman moving a planet (Hal creates a construct to use to hold it but Supes does the movien)

second three are him holding and moving a small quantum singularity (black Hole) any black hole is going to weigh more than any planet.

Last lot of scans are Supes BA battles that place them about even (IIRC the second one is only cover art so probably out of context just to be open)

#45 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

1.It is story from Pre-Crisis written in current years. I am not an expert of it, but I've heard more than once that it is not cannon. Plus Hulk still would have better striking feat (and Superman on the scan didn't do it alone)

2.It isn't a great feat, because Atom Smasher was in machine and explained what is actually happening. Machine that actually hold miniature black hole, one not bigger than grain of sand. this machine couldn't fully stop miniature BH anymore, so it was affecting enviorment around. Yet, Superman isn't "holding" it on his own, it was very, very small and it is not feat of strength, but of durability. Superman is just holding that machine and resisting small part of small bh.

3.1st and 3rd scan are from one fight, in which Superman was still holding back to some moment, when Adam turn back on him, because he knew that Superman wouldn't punch him in the back. I don't see a winner in third fight, as I don't belive that fighting with strong people gives a feat.

Winning, stalemating - yeah. Unless some feats are shown during the battle (like in WB Hulk vs RS-Hulk), or stated by narrator (Gladiator vs hyperion-712), there is no feat in this. For example: Thing fought with WWHulk, but does that mean that they are in the same class? Ulik fought with Thor more than once, but he isn't planet buster. Thor fought with Thanos, but I don't see him in the same class of strength.

(there is more behind fights, but even argumetns above are enough I belive)

@deathandgrim: That is kind of ignorance I was talking about - from Adam's/SG's/PG's fans.

Post some feats or stop trolling. Yes, putting that kind of videos is starting a flamewar, what is trolling. Next time I will send a PM to mods.

#46 Posted by WillPayton (9693 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets stick to the CS vs Hulk fight, ok?

#47 Edited by DeathandGrim (2072 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: I'm not a fan of either one of those characters.

I don't care about either one of these characters in this topic so I honestly wasn't going to post, but I was gonna keep tabs to learn something about CS.

But it's when the Hulk fanboys (like yourself) show up and start spouting out at the mouth the same usual "HULK IS BETTER THAN SO AN SO" nonsense is when I show up.

#48 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: I'm not a fan of either one of those characters.

What does it matter? Try to stand in subject and prove either side wrong, not provoke them, since we're just talking about comics. If You belive that either of these people has feats greater than Hulk - feel free to post it.

#49 Posted by DeathandGrim (2072 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathandgrim:

Me? A Hulk fan? Hahahahaha...

I just know what he can. And his feats are simply better. I didn't try to say "He will do it, because he is better!", like other people in this thread about for example Power Girl. I have said which feats puts him higher than these people. Show me better from them.