Citizen steel vs Despero

It is the mighty Citizen steel that takes on Despero!

SETTING

Takes place on an indestructible planet.

RULES

Pre 52 versions.

Strength and durability are the only powers allowed.

Citizen steel has no containment suit.

Both are bloodlusted.

Sorry if this has been done or is spite.

Despero would destroy this guy. TP being the easiest way.

So is Speed Equalized then too?

@laflux: Yes

Despero

Stalemate or Despero.

Honestly not sure....

CS is very durable and strong, but Desperos strength and durability is at a level where he can take on 4 or 5 superman level beings at the same time.

Despero. TP=mindrape.

Jmarshmallow

Despero wins.

@jmarshmallow:

READ THE OP GUYS!!!!!!!!

Still Despero

Jmarshmallow

@jmarshmallow: Cool

@thetruebarryallen@zeroplus@demonknights@darkseid1006

@lvenger@highaccuser@frozen

Thoughts?

Citizen Steel

Despero via flogging.

How? Even if you remove TP, Despero is vastly Steel's physical superior. He tanked combined blows from 4 Class 100 powerhouses then proceeded to beat them all at once. He's a consistent teambuster and easily deals with the heaviest hitters of the DCU. You can't overplay CS' physicality here, especially against a foe who's way stronger than he is.

@lvenger: Do you think this is a mismatch?

Afraid so. Despero is on a whole nother level to Steel physically that, even if you take out Despero's TP and energy blasts (he has energy blasts btw), Despero still holds a big edge.

@lvenger: Because Citizen Steel was at KC Superman's level?

Or so I've heard.

Steel only had one feat at that so called level and he only knocked Gog down after tearing his metal suit off, which was capping his strength I believe. With it on, he's nowhere near KC Superman's level, let alone Despero's who's also much faster than Steel with or without the suit. Even if Despero didn't have his telepathy or energy eye blasts, I would still give Despero a solid majority. High end performances don't equal consistent replications of said feats.

@lvenger: So should this be locked?

@lvenger:

I still say Despero but this isn't a lockable thread yet IMO. It's just one that has a very clear winner.

@lvenger: Ok

I'm at work now so cant provide scans, but can do later when I"m at home if need be.

CS has better durability than Despero, who has been hurt by sharks before. Even if you discount that as bad writing, he's also been hurt by a hit from Martian Manhunter that busted some of his teeth, a hit from Hawkman's mace that also did same, and possibly others that I cant remember right now.

As far as strength, Citizen Steel is stronger than Despero. CS was able to knock to the ground the Elder God Gog who was throwing around the JSA. No one was able to take him down (including KC Superman and Alan Scott), but CS did. Also, CS took a full-force hit from the herald Gog which didnt even move him. This was the same Gog that was also manhandling KC Superman and Alan Scott as well as Power Girl and the rest of the JSA. In comparison, KC Superman took a hit from Hercules that sent regular Superman flying without even budging.

So even though CS has few showings, his showings are consistent. CS is stronger than KC Superman who is stronger than regular Superman. He has also handled people who alone were handling the JSA. The main reason why he doesnt get a lot of action in fights is because he's slow. This is not a problem here because speed is equalized and Despero cant use his biggest weapon, his TP.

Citizen Steel wins.

@willpayton: So even though CS has few showings, his showings are consistent.

No they aren't. In a later storyline he lost to Mammoth.

I'm actually interested in the potential discussion for this...

I'm not familiar with that storyline so I cant comment on it. But, his showings against the herald Gog and the Elder God Gog are consistent with him being stronger than KC Superman.

If you have scans I'd like to see them.

@willpayton: Just asking,but I see you in a lot of Justice Society related threads. Are they a favorite team of yours,by chance?

Despero

Despero.

I read the whole storyline. Steel just hasn't been that powerful since thy kingdom come.

@highaccuser@willpayton

I wouldnt say they're a favorite team because I dont really have any favorite teams. But, they do have some characters that I like like.

Thanks for the scans. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with Mammoth to know how strong he is (or durable) or how he was able to defeat CS in that fight. It could be a legitimate win, or something else was going on, or a case of bad writing. I dont know. What I do know is that there are other consistent showings that say CS is stronger than KC Superman.

For example:

Gallery

Here the herald God is handling the JSA much like Despero often does the JLA. But, Citizen Steel takes his hit without barely budging. In return, he fairly easily knocks him into the air with a single hit... while he's wearing his containment suit that reduces his strength.

Later he takes the Elder god Gog down with TWO hits, a god that the JSA was unable to take down even with Alan Scott, Power Girl, Stargirl, and the rest.

Gallery

And as far as people claiming that Despero has better durability than CS. Here Hawkman hurts him, makes him bleed, and knocks out teeth with a blow from his mace:

Martian Manhunter does same:

And Aquaman fights him alone for a while even having his sharks hurt and bleed him as well:

Yeah, Despero is a team-wrecker, but he's not invulnerable to being hurt. And, CS has shown that he can take the best hits of team-wreckers on Despero's level and then hurt them right back.

Without hit mental powers or speed, Despero has to face Citizen Steel on an equal basis. And really, CS has better strength and durability than Despero has. I dont see him hurting CS much at all, and CS can certainly hurt Despero.

@willpayton:

CS has better durability than Despero, who has been hurt by sharks before. Even if you discount that as bad writing, he's also been hurt by a hit from Martian Manhunter that busted some of his teeth, a hit from Hawkman's mace that also did same, and possibly others that I cant remember right now.

One, that's major lowballing on your part and second of all that's piercing damage. Despero's piercing damage durability is admittedly not up to scratch with the rest of his durability. Moreover, you omit major context about what happened in Martian Manhunter and Despero's brief battle. After that 'teeth breaking punch' Despero then proceeds to manhandle and overpower Manhunter with ease. J'onn even says he forgot how powerful Despero was.

Gallery

As far as strength, Citizen Steel is stronger than Despero. CS was able to knock to the ground the Elder God Gog who was throwing around the JSA. No one was able to take him down (including KC Superman and Alan Scott), but CS did. Also, CS took a full-force hit from the herald Gog which didnt even move him. This was the same Gog that was also manhandling KC Superman and Alan Scott as well as Power Girl and the rest of the JSA. In comparison, KC Superman took a hit from Hercules that sent regular Superman flying without even budging.

Gonna have to disagree with you there and you're confusing strength with striking power. As far as strength goes, Despero has lifted The Rock of Eternity after having almost every member of the JLA and JSA attack him. What makes this feat uber impressive is that the Rock has an infinite and incalculable amount of weight. It is the focal point of all of the DCU's magic, and was made from fragments of both Heaven & Hell. Here, Sand drops the Rock on Despero with a massive shockwave and he's still able to lift it up.

Gallery

That is definitely a better strength feat than anything Citizen Steel has. As for striking power, all Steel did was knock Gog down. He didn't beat him, he just punched him over. In contrast, Despero has tanked hits from 4 Class 100 beings all at once.

If Kingdom Come Superman were to face Pre New 52 Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel and Power Girl, I'm sure he'd have a tough time doing so. I really don't see Citizen Steel hitting harder than Superman or Wonder Woman, let alone hitting harder than all 4 at once. And this is the same Despero who faced almost all these heroes simultaneously.

Please feel free to offer some convincing evidence that Citizen Steel has any feats comparable to this as I haven't seen Citizen Steel perform any feats of this magnitude with his physical strength.

So even though CS has few showings, his showings are consistent. CS is stronger than KC Superman who is stronger than regular Superman. He has also handled people who alone were handling the JSA. The main reason why he doesnt get a lot of action in fights is because he's slow. This is not a problem here because speed is equalized and Despero cant use his biggest weapon, his TP.

Not really but even if they were, Despero's feats are also exceptionally consistent. He can manhandle 4 Class 100 beings at once, overpower top tier powerhouses like Superman and Martian Manhunter instantly, and has nearly overpowered 2 superhero teams at once as well as the Justice League International, Justice League Task Force and the Justice League on separate occasions. His strength and durability showings vastly outweight Citizen Steel's limited showings and there is no strong, valid or consistent evidence which proves Citizen Steel is stronger than Kingdom Come Superman. Who is already magnitudes stronger than the Pre New 52 Superman. That's an utterly fallacious claim which has no substantial backing to it whatsoever. Despero still wins this battle and Steel still moves slower than Despero.

@willpayton: Mammoth is a jobber. He was a teen titans back in the day when starfire and donna troy were weaker. It would probably be PIS that citizen steel lost to mammoth.

Interesting.

I wonder how strong is captain steel in the new 52 from earth 2.

He is east asian by the way.

So lets say that the shark attack is piercing damage and that wont help CS. Fine. The hits from MMH and Hawkman were not piercing damage.

I didnt omit anything in the MMH vs Despero battle because I was making a point about his durability and not his hitting power, which I know is great. Yes, I know Despero can take on several Superman-level characters at once... I havent denied that. My point is that this is a feat that the herald Gog also performed, and CS took his hit without moving, and then proceeded to knock him into the air easily.

The feat with the Rock of Eternity is simply bad writing. I say this because:

1. There's no way that Despero has infinite strength, so that's out the door right away. If he did, every single hit would kill anyone it made contact with.

2. We can clearly see that the RoE doesnt go right through the Earth when it hits... which is what would happen if it did have infinite weight. Infinite weight means it'd be exerting infinite force on the Earth. Nothing... and I mean nothing could keep the RoE from going right through the Earth until it reached the center. That didnt happen, so we know for a fact that the RoE doesnt have infinite mass/weight.

3. Aside from #2 above, if the RoE did have infinite mass/weight, it means that everything near it, including Despero, would be splattered against it and squashed until their individual atoms were one-layer thick right up against the surface of the rock. This... is what infinite mass/weight/force would do. In fact, the entire universe would collapse in on the rock.

The Rock of Eternity might be heavy, but nothing like what the writers say. That is simply bad writing.

Citizen Steel cracked Gog's armor and knocked him down, something the combined JSA could not do. That is most definitely a strength feat.

But I already gave examples and scans of CS doing just this. On two occasions he took down people who were handing multiple people on Supermans level.

I havent denied Despero's feats. I know that he's a team-buster even with his physical powers alone. My point is that so was Gog (the herald) and the Elder god Gog. Both were team-busters on Despero's level, and both went down to CS's hits... which BTW were not even his hardest hits, since we can see that he only even had to try with the Elder God, and even then it only took him 2 hits.

As far as speed, CS is not slower here since the OP specifically said that their speeds are equalized.

BUMPING!