Charmed Universe vs Buffy Universe

@HBKTimHBK: The Hollow has the ability to absorb all forms of magic it comes in contact with and then redirect that said attack x10 onto the opponent. The explosion of the Manor occured because both the Charmed Ones and Billy and Christy summoned the hollow at the same time, causing the power to split amongst all five girls...When both sides attempted to use the Hollow against each other, the power cancelled each other out and caused a backlashed that devestasted the manor and killed everyone except Piper and Billy..it was only poor circumstances. This won't happen in the current circumstance.

@BMEZY said:

@HBKTimHBK: The Hollow has the ability to absorb all forms of magic it comes in contact with and then redirect that said attack x10 onto the opponent. The explosion of the Manor occured because both the Charmed Ones and Billy and Christy summoned the hollow at the same time, causing the power to split amongst all five girls...When both sides attempted to use the Hollow against each other, the power cancelled each other out and caused a backlashed that devestasted the manor and killed everyone except Piper and Billy..it was only poor circumstances. This won't happen in the current circumstance.

The power would split between the 3 girls again, who's blast was still very similar to almost exactly what Dark Willow was capable of without using the Hollow or any other form of advanced magic. And who's to say that with prep Willow could have the perfect answer to something so powerful, like absorbing magic.

@HBKTimHBK: The fact of the matter is, if the Charmed Ones get their hands on the Hollow, Willow can be defeated. The hollow only causes devestating effects when it's being used against each other.

@BMEZY said:

@HBKTimHBK: The fact of the matter is, if the Charmed Ones get their hands on the Hollow, Willow can be defeated. The hollow only causes devestating effects when it's being used against each other.

I need better feats that the Charmed Ones used anything better with the Hollow, because whether the explosion was a result of the Hollow being used against itself, they still had a very similar blast to what Dark Willow could do almost on a whim without going to such high levels. With prep, Dark Willow could gain even more power then what she had.

@charlieboy: Willow may have been "airborne", but Anya said that it made Willow slower, not that it was less powerful then teleporting. And Phoebe has used power resistance to be seemingly uninjured from attacks, but that doesn't make her invulnerable from something like being flayed.

@charlieboy said:

@HBKTimHBK: how many times when phoebe was using her empathy against an opponent did she actually get hurt?

How many times have her opponents tried to remove her skin? Especially in the case where she can't predict it as naturally, the best case being Pipers telekenesis, but tk isn't exactly comparable to what Willow did to Warren.

@HBKTimHBK: Any magic Willow used will be absorbed by The Hollow.. It absorbs magic...power/life force. The Hollow just doesn't do energy blasts.. It can magnify/amplify the powers of a witch/demons to an incalculable degree (much like what the phoenix does for Jean) The hollow is said to be the most powerful magical force in the charmedverse. And if left uncontained, would absorb every single magical/life force in the world..This is why the hollow had to be contained in a special box outside time and space so that it wouldn't threatened the existence of all beings. In Charmed and Dangerous, The Source released the hollow into a darklighter in order to gain the Charmed Ones's powers.. The Darklighter arrived and every attack the Charmed ones tried wer absorbed and replicated or completely nullified. Piper actually blew the darklighter up and it instantly regenerated and replicated Piper's attack, which he stopped and was summoned back to the Source.. I don't see how willow beats the hollow..virtually nothing can (and it requires a specific spell to be contained, which willow doesn't have access to).

@BMEZY said:

@HBKTimHBK: Any magic Willow used will be absorbed by The Hollow.. It absorbs magic...power/life force. The Hollow just doesn't do energy blasts.. It can magnify/amplify the powers of a witch/demons to an incalculable degree (much like what the phoenix does for Jean) The hollow is said to be the most powerful magical force in the charmedverse. And if left uncontained, would absorb every single magical/life force in the world..This is why the hollow had to be contained in a special box outside time and space so that it wouldn't threatened the existence of all beings. In Charmed and Dangerous, The Source released the hollow into a darklighter in order to gain the Charmed Ones's powers.. The Darklighter arrived and every attack the Charmed ones tried wer absorbed and replicated or completely nullified. Piper actually blew the darklighter up and it instantly regenerated and replicated Piper's attack, which he stopped and was summoned back to the Source.. I don't see how willow beats the hollow..virtually nothing can (and it requires a specific spell to be contained, which willow doesn't have access to).

Willow has prep, I don't see how either side doesn't have access to anything if you gave them 1 day of prep. Especially since Willow has access to the Charmed world, therefore should be able to prep for what the Charmed Ones can do. And even then do the Charmed Ones have enough experience with the Hollow? Again, all I saw them specifically do was use an energy blast similar to Willow's, not absorb magic. The Hollow may be able to do that, but would the Charmed Ones have enough experience with the Hollow to know how to use it.

@charlieboy: And both were trying to use the tk differently, Piper in a non lethal manner.

@charlieboy said:

@HBKTimHBK: still doesn't mean that it would work. and if we are talking lethal couldn't paige just orb willow's heart out? she almost did it to someone her first few episodes.

And if we were talking lethal, couldn't Willow just rip Paige's skin off as well, Phoebe would be the only one with a possible defense. And Willow could probably just convince them not to do anything lethal, Willow is very adept at mind control. Since she was able to control Anya when she was a vengeance demon, who are impervious to telepathy.

@HBKTimHBK: The Power of the Hollow is instinctive...it drives its vessel to what the person desires. There isn't much conscious thought put into it..it's more like a gut-wrenching urge (which is part of what makes it so dangerous). When the darklighter absorbed the hollow in season's 4 Charmed and Dangerous, the hollow was working and he didn't even realize it. it's almost automatic. he didn't have any idea what the hollow was or what it could do. When he faced the Charmed Ones and Piper attempted to blow him up, or paige tried to orb him, or phoebe threw the potion, He really thought that he was going to die, but the hollow simply reacted instinctively, without even him having to to consciously wield it (he had absolutely no experience) and he nullified, absorbed and simply regenerated from the attacks (the hollow absorbs on contact) and was about to kill the Charmed Ones until the Source summoned him back..If the Charmed Ones have a desire for Willow to be dead and have the will..the hollow will take care of most of the work (even when the charmed ones summoned the hollow it was as if they were acting on intuition and instinct rather on actual uhh...thinking. Perfect example. When after the demons helped the charmed ones get the hollow, causing them to wreak havoc on phoebe's apartment, the demons attacked them and the hollow took and absorbed their powers and killed the demons with it. It was so fast that Piper and Paige didn't even know what happened.

P.S - Willow only has prep from her own respective universe as the charmed ones only have prep from theirs. That's only fair.

Makes me want to hone up on my Buffy (almost got the complete series on dvd) and pay attention to the Charmed verse (who I'm only familiar with having watched quite a few with my brother who's partial to that show.) I say Sam & Dean intervene and make everyone play nice, then go home before the destroy the multiverse!

@charlieboy: I believe it was

I know what you're trying to do, I hate to burst your bubble, but that mind control mojo doesn't work on vengeance demons, so why don't you just-
Stop talking and listen.
Okay.

And it's not unstated that Willow wouldn't be able to use her powers against multiple opponents at once. And the Power of Three spell is too long, Willow could easily just silence them like she did to Warren.

@BMEZY: Well then in that case, what are they prepping for? They wouldn't even use the Hollow because they wouldn't treat it like a threat, they'd treat it like some blonde bimbo is threatening Wyatt. It would not be in character for them to summon the Hollow in the first place anyway. They've only summoned it for use once. They would be fighting to kill like they always do, but they wouldn't summon the Hollow.

@charlieboy said:

@HBKTimHBK: it's not stated that willow could not control multiple people. but is never been shown either since she never did it. and the power of three spell protects them as soon as they start. willow's silence would just bounce off.

She's shown to mind control beings that are much stronger against telepathic attack then Piper, Phoebe, and Paige. I don't see where the problem would come in. And Willow could easily silence them before they start the spell, if she has at least some common knowledge that they use spells in the first place.

@charlieboy said:

@HBKTimHBK: and they could just use astral decoys to get her attention. there is so many tricks they could use. and unless you can show an instance of willow mind controlling multiple people then i don't think she can do it.

I think she can, because she's done a lot more then mind control 3 girls, she mind controlled someone who can't be mind controlled, and unlocked the powers of every single potential slayer in the world, which shows her magic can extend well beyond just 3 people.

@HBKTimHBK: Someone is threatening to annaliate their entire world (since they refuse to hand over Wyatt) and has their entire universe there to help them do it. This is like nothing the Charmed Ones has ever faced Plus they are not only bloodlusted, but possess NO morals..They saw a blonde bimbo i.e-Billy and her sister as a big enough threat to summon the hollow, but not a girl coming out a portal with an entire army filled with gods, vampires, witches, slayers etc etc..looking for nothing but their death (since they won't let wyatt go)?? I see the Charmed Ones summoning the Hollow for themselves in this fight.. they would have to.

@charlieboy said:

@HBKTimHBK: yeah and i believe the charmed ones used a spell to behavior modify the whole world. she still hasn't ever mind controlled more than person at once.

And Phoebe hasn't ever been shown outfighting every single member of the Charmed Ones, that doesn't mean that she can't. Just because she hasn't done that specific feat when she's accomplished better, doesn't mean she can't do it, Willow has extended her magic well beyond 3 people, especially 3 people with no defense.

I just want to confirm that the original Charmed vs Buffy idea was spite and we are now arguing Willow vs the Charmed Ones....right?

@BMEZY said:

@HBKTimHBK: Someone is threatening to annaliate their entire world (since they refuse to hand over Wyatt) and has their entire universe there to help them do it. This is like nothing the Charmed Ones has ever faced Plus they are not only bloodlusted, but possess NO morals..They saw a blonde bimbo i.e-Billy and her sister as a big enough threat to summon the hollow, but not a girl coming out a portal with an entire army filled with gods, vampires, witches, slayers etc etc..looking for nothing but their death (since they won't let wyatt go)?? I see the Charmed Ones summoning the Hollow for themselves in this fight.. they would have to.

I assume that these characters are at their peak version without garnering powers from other sources, I don't assume Buffy is going to have her powers like she did when she faced Adam. I'm assuming no Hollow here. And if there was, I still haven't seen the fact that the Charmed Ones wouldn't really know how to use it. I know it may be instinctive, but the feats that the Charmed Ones have done with it are still not above Willow.

@society619 said:

I just want to confirm that the original Charmed vs Buffy idea was spite and we are now arguing Willow vs the Charmed Ones....right?

I guess so...I never took a side much on the overall fight, I just said that the Charmed Ones would have to deal with Willow and that they wouldn't be effecting the fight much.

@HBKTimHBK: The Charmed Ones have prep...They will use the Hollow for this type of threat.. The hollow doesn't need feats. It's pretty much self-explanatory (for people who know what it is and what's it capable of). You don't have to know how to use the hollow, it doesn't require time to utulize or experience to wield..The Darklighter, The Source and the Charmed Ones protected themselves and killed being without even realizing what they have done. Anything Willow dishes out, The Hollow will absorb, any magic it comes in contact with (offensively), it will be nullified against it. It's like auto-pilot..With the Hollow, The Charmed One's win against Willow...

@BMEZY said:

@HBKTimHBK: The Charmed Ones have prep...They will use the Hollow for this type of threat.. The hollow doesn't need feats. It's pretty much self-explanatory (for people who know what it is and what's it capable of). You don't have to know how to use the hollow, it doesn't require time to utulize or experience to wield..The Darklighter, The Source and the Charmed Ones protected themselves and killed being without even realizing what they have done. Anything Willow dishes out, The Hollow will absorb, any magic it comes in contact with (offensively), it will be nullified against it. It's like auto-pilot..With the Hollow, The Charmed One's win against Willow...

And Willow can absorb any magic she comes in to contact with, even giving her a high out of it, and the Charmed Ones still have very little feats with the Hollow. With the Hollow, they have done nothing that Dark Willow couldn't do.

Funny thing is, I recognize this fight (Willow/Charmed Ones)..it's been done lol

@charlieboy: It is late indeed, and I enjoyed debating you as well

@HBKTimHBK: are you saying that the Hollow cannot absorb/nullify Willow's attacks on the Charmed Ones??

@BMEZY said:

@HBKTimHBK: are you saying that the Hollow cannot absorb/nullify Willow's attacks on the Charmed Ones??

I'm saying that Willow has the ability to absorb magic, and the feats that the Charmed Ones have with the Hollow are not better then what Dark Willow can do. And you said yourself, the Hollow is more powerful in the hands of one person, instead of being split up in say..thirds.

@charlieboy said:

@HBKTimHBK: yeah i think i debated against spike in the first thread. ouch.

I apologize, I've debated Buffy fanboys too, it was unpleasant.

@HBKTimHBK: true.. willow wins 6/10 that's all I can do for you, sir lol

@BMEZY said:

@HBKTimHBK: true.. willow wins 6/10 that's all I can do for you, sir lol

Lol, and now it is late here (like 2 AM) and I must say good bye, good debate though

@charlieboy said:

@HBKTimHBK: don't get me wrong by the way. i am a big willow fan. she is my favorite character from buffy. i have willow and buffy posters up still. lol

I'm a Faith person myself...but..you know..it's Eliza Dushku

@HBKTimHBK: I agree

:D

@HBKTimHBK: Piper and Pheobe could've ressurected Prue but the crew wanted to kill off Shannon's character for good and never come back.

buffy totally for the win

dark willow alone would easily take out the sisters,

not to mention if we're going with after the seventh season there are now hundreds to thousands of slayers in the fight.

@charlieboy said:

@HBKTimHBK: right but you can't say that willow can mind control multiple people. because she hasn't done it. that's all i am saying. we could debate all night. i am going to bow out now. there are too many possibilities on either side. it was nice debating you.

end of sixth season willow was able to use mind control to get Anya into releasing her from Giles's binding spell

@evanescencefan91: But the Buffy Universe will still lose