Champion of the Universe VS Sentry

Anyways, I think Sentry can take Champion.

So why can't Sentry or Hulk take Superman?

They just don't have the feats.

I don't think its fair to much it on features. Truth be told, Superman only beat Hulk by fan vote. If its a straight brawl like Hulk and Juggernaut, Hulk would win.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then lol.

"I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then lol."

"Valkaad said:

Dude are you kidding me? The power gem didn't exist back then. It started out with Warlock having his soul gem.. Thanos "introduced" us to the power gem for the first time in 1990 eight years after Champion showed power to banish Mjolnir."

Champion came to earth and fought several heroes but he disqualified the most powerful like Thor and Hulk.Once he got the Soul Gem he was still overpowering people who weren't anywhere near his strength level.Taking a shot from Mjolnir doesn't mean he couldn't have gotten his ribs broken by the Thing.Like all people and all fighters..some of them can't take blows to certain areas because they are more sensitive to attacks in that area.Either way nobody the Champion has fought in his entire existence was as strong when they fought the Champion they are now and are all weaker than Sentry."

"Valkaad said:

"Vance Astro said:

"Alpha said:

"Champion does have the Power Primordial (which is the power of the Big Bang) and he is immortal. I think he wins. "

None of that means anything.Champion got his ribs broken by the Thing...a weaker thing than the Thing who gave Sentry his best punch and it did nothing."

The Power Primordial DOES mean something. In that same comic you like to reference Champion took a direct blow from Mjolnir without any injury. Thor also threw his hammer at Champion and before it could hit him Champioin banished Mjolnir to a nether dimension with but a thought. He also teleported a leaping Hulk out of the arena before he could attack. Who says that Champion has to stand toe to toe with Sentry. He could simply banish him to a nether dimension. Champion for the Win"

If he banishes him, it also shows his cowardliness, especially when He didn't want to fight Hulk. The Champion loses."

"Valkaad said:

"Chaos Rosso said:

"Valkaad said:

Dude are you kidding me? The power gem didn't exist back then. It started out with Warlock having his soul gem.. Thanos "introduced" us to the power gem for the first time in 1990 eight years after Champion showed power to banish Mjolnir."

Champion came to earth and fought several heroes but he disqualified the most powerful like Thor and Hulk.Once he got the Soul Gem he was still overpowering people who weren't anywhere near his strength level.Taking a shot from Mjolnir doesn't mean he couldn't have gotten his ribs broken by the Thing.Like all people and all fighters..some of them can't take blows to certain areas because they are more sensitive to attacks in that area.Either way nobody the Champion has fought in his entire existence was as strong when they fought the Champion they are now and are all weaker than Sentry."

Strength is irrevelevant when he can simply teleport Sentry to another dimension. If someone banishes you to a nether dimension, you have been OWNED!"

I don't know how the Champion was banishing people.I don't remember but the Power Primordial is only connected to the Champions strength and durability as far as I can tell.I don't see a source that claims he actually has the power to banish anyone from anything.Thor and Dr.Strange can banish people because they can open portals...so how the hell is Champion doing it? He's not a teleporter! He can't open portals! So how is it that he can banish people with a thought though no source claims he has that power.I believe it was the power of another that would banish people when the Champion wanted them disqualified from his tournament.If the Champion really had the power to banish people for cheating in h2h combat by using weapons and powers..he would have banished Adam Warlock for dropping him with the Karmic Staff.

In straight up hand to hand combat you know Champion can't hang with Sentry.

"

"Valkaad said:

Why is using his powers to their fullest cowardice? Was Superman being a coward when he used his heat vision against the Weird instead of punching him?  Was surfer being a coward when he rearranged the molecules of Obliterators weapons to beat him instead of going hand to hand? Is Thor being a coward when he calls down lightning and shoots energy from Mjolnir instead of fighting hand to hand? NO!! "

Well for one I don't believe the Champion can banish anyone but assuming he can..someone like the Champion who built a name for himself on h2h combat and displays of strength,banishing someone is a coward move because he would have proven he knows he's no match for Sentry in combat.Superman using heat vision isn't cowardice..it's weapon.He is still causing his enemy damage.Banishing someone is avoiding contact.Same thing with Thor using energy attacks and the Surfer using molecular manipulation.Those are attacks rather than avoiding a fight entirely.Thor has lost to people he used his most powerful energy attacks on..if Champion banishes someone they have no chance of getting off any kind of attack. (Again,assuming he actuall has the power to do that at all)."

"Valkaad said:

OK Here is my dilemma. Some people (apparently like you and I) like to argue based on source material e.g. The Marvel Universe, because that is what the character was intended to be. If we argue based on that then  Champion cannot be hurt by any means less than molecular dispersion, meaning that unless Sentry gained the ability of molecular rearrangment then he could not injure Champion in any way. Again based on source material Champion is a master of Thousands of Martial Arts, meaning he is like DC's karate Kid with superhuman strength, endurance and reflexes. Based on powers, Sentry could not hurt him and I am sure that he could use one of his martial arts skills to incapacitate Sentry.  Other people like arguing based on what has been show in comics.  I hate arguing based on showing in comics because PIS is rampant (espcially for someone like Champion who has NEVER had his own comic). Champion is used in other peoples comics as a stepping stone to show how powerful the star of the comic is while downplaying all of Champion abilities.  if we argue based on what he has done in comics, then I have a comic sitting in front of me right now where he stops Mjolnir dead in its tracks and banishes to a nether dimension with a thught . If we go by that, then he could just as easily banish the Sentry. Champion wins."

Source material has to be backed by showings in comics.Let's take any character..Hulk,Spider-Man,Wolverine etc.You can check any source available..Comicvine,Marvel.com,Marvel database,wikipedia,the Marvel handbook,Civil War Damage Report,The Marvel encylopedia etc.They will all give you the same information roughly on the powers and abilities of any character you are searching for.Now..those source gain credibility by listing information as it is shown in comics.Any of those sources say that Spider-Man can cling to walls..how do we know he can? Because he has done it.Now..if there is no source that states that the Champion can banish anyone and it was never stated in comics when anyone was banished that it was actually him who was causing it...I am lead to believe it wasn't him.All of the source I named have been known to be missing information and to have false information at times..however between them..there has never been a character featured in any of those sources that has a description of their powers written out and is missing the same exact power from every description.I'm sure if he had the power to banish people at least one of those sources would say he can do it.

Here is another reason I don't believe the Champion banished anyone.As shown..anyone who was banished was only banished during these tournaments.There were other parties involved in setting up the tournament.Proja was the one who brought the heroes to where the fight would be held,he is the one who set up the tournament,and Thor actually says that not even Mjolnir could teleport them away.The forcefield at Madison square garden to keep other fighters out wasn't made by Champion either.Which leads me to believe it was Proja who was manipulating the conditions of the fight rather than the Champion.

The last reason is the Champion has fought people and they have pulled the same things like using energy attacks and weapons.He didn't banish them..he just got his ass kicked.When he fought Adam Warlock he was owning Warlock until he used the Karmic Staff.Why didn't he banish him? Oh I know...because he can't.

Now let's talk about powers and what the Champion can do shall we....

He beat the Thing,Wonder Man,Namor,Sasquatch and Colossus all in one round.Impressive for the 80's but not for this day and age.He has no comparable strength feats that don't involve the Power Gem.In fact while people b#tch about him losing to She-Hulk he has no comparable strength feats to her either.

Let's compare..The Sentry has never lost a fair fight.Never banished anyone from a fight.Has beaten opponents above whom the Champion has defeated without a power gem or any strength augmentation.Under his own power.He has lost very few fights and less embarrassingly than the Champion.The Champion taking Sentry with martial arts is bullsh#t.Martial arts means nothing if you don't have the physical ability to back it up and judging by his feats without the power gem..the Champion doesn't.You can whine about PIS if you want but there are plenty of people who are not heroes who have high level feats and have never taken an L as badly as the Champion..I can name over 50.Just face it..Tryco has nothing for Sentry.Let's not even go into this fighting skill thing because I bet if I used Gamora owning Thanos h2h you would call that PIS in a second.

The Sentry wins.No amount of reaching will change that.

"

I am not reaching. You and I are arguing from two different perspectives. I am arguing based on Champions powers/abilities and on what he WOULD/COULD do in real life with those powers/abilities. You are arguing based on what writers show him do in other peoples comics where he, like Gladiator, is shown as a benchmark or a stepping stone.  In my opinion as stated in the marvel universe Champion cannot be hurt by any means short of molecular dispersion and therefore cannot be injured by Sentry. I believe that Champion would kick everyone's a55 in his own comic, just like everyone else does. Champion has been downgraded from an intelligent, extremely powerful master of every martial art in the universe to a stupid brick who throws haymaker punches (he has never even been shown to kick someone ridiculous for someone who knows thousands of martial arts) but I know he is capable of delivering kicks. As for you THINKING champion didn't do the banishing well YOU are the one who is reaching. I quote from the comic - Champion talking about mjolnir  "It has no place in this ring of honor...Thus I banish it to some nether dimension". Emphasis on I meaning he banished it to a nether dimension. If it were an outside force or something else doing it he could have just as easily said...Thus IT is banished to a nether region. The fact that he said I banish means HE did it. When he banished the Hulk he raised his arm and the hulk disappeared showing that his power did it.

You keep mentioning strength feats and I say, when have you seen a "strength feat" from Odin, Zeus, Galactus, Chthon, etc? Champion (based on powers/abilities in the handbook) is like Bruce Lee times 1000 with superhuman abilites thrown in. He isn't supposed to be a weightlifter, he is a master martial artist.

Thanks alot Creator.That actually means something coming from you.

As far as the fight with the Thing..it makes it even worse that it took 3 rounds for the Champion to beat the Thing than just one.All of those people The Champion fought are Class 100 now.The Champion beating them doesn't say much when he was already on that level.To say the Champion beating them is a feat is like saying..Iron Man beating Doc Samson is a feat.Iron Man outclasses him in everything.

Let's also not forget he banished the only two people who were actually comparable to him in strength.Thor and Hulk.

She-Hulk has had her own comic alot longer than Sentry..Sentry doesn't even have one only two minis and one that was totally made up stories.Sentry had established his strength over her already.It's not the Champion's lack of appearences that caused him not to establish his strength...maybe he's just not that strong.Gladiator has been owned by the weakest people and he doesn't have his own comic..but his strength feats are top level compared to that of the Champion.

I just wanted to put that bit of rebuttle out there.

"

"the creator said:

Good points Vance.
Shown feats compliment and refine and occasionally disprove what is presented in the 'Official Guide' sources.

Actually I don't believe he can banish objects either.
All of his power has been channeled in to physical powers - not energy / matter manipulation.

 

Actually he needed 3 rounds to beat the Thing.

The quoted strengthsa of the characters at that time were
Thing (85 tonnes), Wonder Man (95 tonnes), Sasquatch (70 tonnes), Colossus (70 tonnes).
All of them have got stronger but not be a vast amount - varying between say 15 - 30 tonnes for each one.
He was handling them easy back them.
A comparison for you with Wonder Man is the way Count Nefaria was throwing around Wonder Man in their fight (back when Nefaria first got his powers).

Apart from quickly defeating the powerhouses above which he did far quicker than virtually anyone else could have done.

She has had own comic for a while and appeared in many other comics i.e. Avengers etc. She has had the opportunity to show feats. Limited appareance like Champion has are rather limiting for this.

The Champion should have the physical abilities to back it up but I take your point.
I don't think that the Champion has shown the speed to keep up with the Sentry's reaction speed.

"

Thanks alot Creator.That actually means something coming from you.

As far as the fight with the Thing..it makes it even worse that it took 3 rounds for the Champion to beat the Thing than just one.All of those people The Champion fought are Class 100 now.The Champion beating them doesn't say much when he was already on that level.To say the Champion beating them is a feat is like saying..Iron Man beating Doc Samson is a feat.Iron Man outclasses him in everything.

Let's also not forget he banished the only two people who were actually comparable to him in strength.Thor and Hulk.

She-Hulk has had her own comic alot longer than Sentry..Sentry doesn't even have one only two minis and one that was totally made up stories.Sentry had established his strength over her already.It's not the Champion's lack of appearences that caused him not to establish his strength...maybe he's just not that strong.Gladiator has been owned by the weakest people and he doesn't have his own comic..but his strength feats are top level compared to that of the Champion.

I just wanted to put that bit of rebuttle out there.

"

ARRRGGHH It taking three rounds to beat the Thing is so fu*&^ PIS its not funny. The comic book was starring the THING he was the freaking "Hero" of the comic.   He fought the Thing using only one style of fighting BOXING they even wore boxing gloves for crying out loud. If Champion went all out with all of his fighting styles the Thing wouldn't have lasted 3 rounds."

"Simon Williams said:

"Valkaad said:

"Vance Astro said:

"Alpha said:

"Champion does have the Power Primordial (which is the power of the Big Bang) and he is immortal. I think he wins. "

None of that means anything.Champion got his ribs broken by the Thing...a weaker thing than the Thing who gave Sentry his best punch and it did nothing."

The Power Primordial DOES mean something. In that same comic you like to reference Champion took a direct blow from Mjolnir without any injury. Thor also threw his hammer at Champion and before it could hit him Champioin banished Mjolnir to a nether dimension with but a thought. He also teleported a leaping Hulk out of the arena before he could attack. Who says that Champion has to stand toe to toe with Sentry. He could simply banish him to a nether dimension. Champion for the Win"

If he banishes him, it also shows his cowardliness, especially when He didn't want to fight Hulk. The Champion loses."

Why is using his powers to their fullest cowardice? Was Superman being a coward when he used his heat vision against the Weird instead of punching him?  Was surfer being a coward when he rearranged the molecules of Obliterators weapons to beat him instead of going hand to hand? Is Thor being a coward when he calls down lightning and shoots energy from Mjolnir instead of fighting hand to hand? NO!! "

"Valkaad said:

ARRRGGHH It taking three rounds to beat the Thing is so fu*&^ PIS its not funny. The comic book was starring the THING he was the freaking "Hero" of the comic.   He fought the Thing using only one style of fighting BOXING they even wore boxing gloves for crying out loud. If Champion went all out with all of his fighting styles the Thing wouldn't have lasted 3 rounds."

Valkaad, your right. The Thing should and would not have lasted 3 rnds."

"the creator said:

"Valkaad said:

ARRRGGHH It taking three rounds to beat the Thing is so fu*&^ PIS its not funny. The comic book was starring the THING he was the freaking "Hero" of the comic.   He fought the Thing using only one style of fighting BOXING they even wore boxing gloves for crying out loud. If Champion went all out with all of his fighting styles the Thing wouldn't have lasted 3 rounds."

Valkaad, your right. The Thing should and would not have lasted 3 rnds."

Only reason He did, is because his fighting spirit, like Rocky in his first match with apollo creed. The Champion got beaten by She hulk, in a fair fight, and Titania crushed him with a huge rock, in which he is assumed dead."

Whew! After reading this whole thread thus far, I will have to side with Sentry. 

Alright Vance, I'll admit that I don't really know much about the Sentry, I am bascially just defending Champion because i am a fan and he has really been short changed lately. BUT you cannot have it both ways. What I mean by that is that you reference the Marvel Universe/The comic when it suits you and disregard the Marvel Universe/The Comic when it doesn't. You don't believe that Champion is invulnerable to anything short of molecular dispersion (even though the Marvel Universe says it) But you say that Champion could not have banished Mjolnir/Hulk because the Marvel Universe doesn't say he has those powers. You believe that the Thing breaking Champions ribs is canon because it happened, but you don't believe Champion can transport beings/objects even though that happened. To be honest don't think Champion should/does have the banishment powers OR that the Thing could/should be able break his ribs. I DO believe that Champion is/should be invulnerable to physical harm just like all of the other Elders are supposed to be. Lastly I can concede that Sentry could probably beat Champion as he is Marvels superman and is virtually unbeatable by anthing short of a high level reality warper.

"Valkaad said:

"Simon Williams said:

"Valkaad said:

"Vance Astro said:

"Alpha said:

"Champion does have the Power Primordial (which is the power of the Big Bang) and he is immortal. I think he wins. "

None of that means anything.Champion got his ribs broken by the Thing...a weaker thing than the Thing who gave Sentry his best punch and it did nothing."

The Power Primordial DOES mean something. In that same comic you like to reference Champion took a direct blow from Mjolnir without any injury. Thor also threw his hammer at Champion and before it could hit him Champioin banished Mjolnir to a nether dimension with but a thought. He also teleported a leaping Hulk out of the arena before he could attack. Who says that Champion has to stand toe to toe with Sentry. He could simply banish him to a nether dimension. Champion for the Win"

If he banishes him, it also shows his cowardliness, especially when He didn't want to fight Hulk. The Champion loses."

Why is using his powers to their fullest cowardice? Was Superman being a coward when he used his heat vision against the Weird instead of punching him?  Was surfer being a coward when he rearranged the molecules of Obliterators weapons to beat him instead of going hand to hand? Is Thor being a coward when he calls down lightning and shoots energy from Mjolnir instead of fighting hand to hand? NO!! "

TSk Tsk Tsk, And none of them banishes anyone, they fought them. Thor is different not like He could put down his Hammer and slug it of."

Vance, I was trying to say in my previous post that you were right about sentry winning yet you still seem to be in attack mode. And You ARE trying to have it both ways. In all of Champions other showings no one has ever broken any of his bones, yet you believe the Thing doing it with 85 ton strength is canon. He got his bones broken in ONE comic and that is canon BUT he was able to stop mjolnir in the same ONE comic but that is not canon. No other showing of Champion leads you to believe that he can get broken bones from some who is 85 ton strength yet you reference it in EVERY thread pertaining to champion, IF you reread my post I said that I don't believe either of the acts are canon. I don't think Champion really has the power to transport people or items to other dimensions, but  I also don't think The Thing can break his ribs. I was just arguing the banishment thing because you keep referencing him getting his bones broken. If you take one as canon you have to accept the other as canon because neither have EVER been shown to hold true in any other comic.

@Vance Astro said:

All this Sentry hate seems to be stemmed from what people think they know about Sentry and not what they actually know.

Bump

Champion is a big jobber, Sentry takes this.

Sentry is also a jobber, so there’s that.

Champion

Probably Sentry.

Sentry. Champion DQd the heavy hitters and he lost to She-Hulk.

@tifalockhart: I mean, he beat up guys like Thor, Thing, Wonder man etc so it’s not like he was just winning by disqualification.

@noobmaster2001: wait he beat Thor?

@tifalockhart: Yeah he was the first opponent he fought IIRC. He also sent multiple heroes like Hulk, Thor, Thing, Wonder man, Sasquatch, Colossus etc flying just by flexing, although he may or may not have had the power gem there which he doesn’t have here according to the OP.

@tifalockhart: He lost to a heavily, heavily amped She Hulk

OT: Even w/o the gem, Champion's Hulk/Thor level- Champion wins if he has the gem, sentry takes it otherwise in a tough battle.