#1 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules:

  • Win by KO, Death, Incapcitation, or by singing "We Didn't Start the Fire" backwards on quadruple speed (obviously I'm joking with the last one)
  • Both combatants know that each other are a huge threat, but no knowledge on each others abilities. Meaning, they'll be taking each other seriously/
  • Morals On
  • In character
  • No prep
  • Standard equipment only!
  • Both are fully aware of their environment, and neither will be caught by surprise by the terrain.

Battlefield:

  • Start 40 feet apart

Scenario:

The Red Ribbon army is at it again. However, they hear of Weiss and his Tsviets, and decide they need to take him out. However, they also need to take out all the DBZ heroes. Well, it was easy enough, they perfected Dr. Brown's flux capacitor, miniaturized it, and stuck it on every DBZ heroes person, and as soon as they went over 88 miles per hour, BAM, they were all gone! Master Roshi was on his island looking at.......magazines......and escaped Red Ribbons plans. However, the RRA (Red Ribbon Army) came up with a new plan. They sent both Roshi and Weiss a letter, issuing a challenge in an open field. The RRA's hope is that Weiss or Roshi will take their competitor out, and the RRA can simply come in and mop up afterwards!

: Master Roshi

: Weiss the Immaculate

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#2 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Weiss the Immaculate, Weiss the Emperor, Empowered Weiss (Final Fantasy 7: Dirge of Cerberus, Final Fantasy 7: Dirge of Cerberus OpenOnline)

Basic overview of his abilities below

· Weapons: Heaven and Earth

Abilities

  • Superhuman Strength - Able to throw Vincent and Azul around like playthings. He is considered the strongest of the Tsviets. He was able to launch rocks like bullets by merely tapping them with his fingers. Swinging his sword is enough force to make the concrete beneath fly around (without swinging at it...). With a full downward strike, Weiss can create immense shockwaves with his weapons.
  • Superhuman Durability - Tanked a blow from Death Penalty while Vincent was in Chaos form, without taking any damage.
  • Superhuman Reflexes - Was able to dodge Vincent's shots while Vincent was moving at speeds faster than the eye can see. The two of them were effortlessly blocking one another. Was also able to take on Rosso the Crimson and Azul the Cerulean in their empowered forms effortlessly, and as he stated, while he was handicapped. He has blocked laser beams with his swords AFTER the laser was fired. He perceives bullets in complete slow motion, almost as if they are stopped.
  • Superhuman Speed - Same as above, plus was able to move at speeds faster than the eye can see.
  • Acrobat - Flips, spins, dodges, etc. All at superhuman speeds.
  • Machine Gun - Has ranged attacks with swords (as they are gun swords)
  • Ranged Strike Attacks - Similar to Sephiroth
  • Dark Orb Attacks - About as powerful as a frag grenade, throws three or more at at time.
  • Self-Duplications: Weiss can create three clones of himself.
  • Teleportation: Despite his immense speed, Weiss was shown being capable of short-ranged teleportation.
  • Soul Energy Absorption - Capable of absorbing soul energy in order to empower himself.

Who is Weiss?

Feats listed below

Alright, I just wanted to get that out of the way before the debate starts.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#3 Edited by nickzambuto (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

Good a way as any to start this.

Ahem,

Jackie Chun, The Turtle Hermit, The Legendary God Of Fighting! Master Roshi!!!

vv Basic Overview Of Skills and Abilties vv

Strength - Roshi was stronger than Krillin during the 21 Budokai, and probably stronger than Goku too. He's well past 100 tons, and even the Ox King bowed before Master Roshi's strength, shortly before hurling a giant boulder hundreds of yards into the sky.

Speed - Roshi's combat speed is hypersonic, having entire fight scenes in the blink of an eye with humans and superhumans alike struggling just to catch glimpses.

Reaction Time - 1/5 of a second might as well be 2 hours to the Turtle Hermit. He easily blitzes superhumans, and when he gets a Machine Gun clip unloaded on him, he easily catches each and every bullet with his bare hands.

Durability - Bullets are a minor nuisance, 100 ton strikes barely faze him, and a snapped neck can be walked off.

Skill - He's not called the God of Fighting for nothing. Master Roshi has centuries of experience under his belt, not to mention personal training from both Korin and Mutaito, among others. Roshi is often considered the single greatest hand to hand combatant on the planet, and has mastered a host of different fighting styles, most of which he came up with himself.

Techniques - What's a DBZ character with special techniques? After-Image, Mind Reading, Hypnotism, Kamehameha, and my personal favorite, the Bankoku Bikkuri Sho Lightning Attack, all these are just a sampling of the many techniques Muten Roshi has come up with over his years.

Intelligence - For all his tropes and nuances, Master Roshi is a genius when it comes to fighting. His magazines aren't the only things he likes dirty, it's also how he likes to fight. He's never been afraid to use trickery, deciet, or distraction to get a couple good hits in. More than that, his technical knowledge of the mechanics of fighting is astronomical: mastering a martial art is impressive, mastering several is better, but actually coming up with one yourself is in another league entirely, and Roshi has done several.

vv Miscellaneous Feats vv

Formulates a combat strategy in 1/5 of a second

Solos an entire Red Ribbon Army Combat Unit, and proceeds to catch an entire Machine Gun clip with his bare hands easily

Master Roshi accidentally destroys a mountain

Hypnotizes a werewolf and turns him into a human

Deadpans that mind reading is child's play

Krillin and Goku own 350 ton boulders and jump into the upper stratosphere; Roshi beat them both.

Defeats Freeza

...Ok not really. Pretty cool pic doe.

I'll have a more detailed strategy up later. If you get the chance before I do, feel free to make the first move.

#4 Posted by nickzambuto (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm clicking on the feats spoiler tag, but it's not pulling down. Can you go first so I get a better idea of Weiss's capabilities?

#5 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay: Agreed not working for me either.

#6 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

I can't seem to get my video post on comicvine to post the videos...

Weiss's Background

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=39liyqbdT2U#!

Weiss's Introduction

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZHZq68tfq5A#!

He challenges your guy to a fight after this...and pretty much whoops the crap out of you.

Weiss tromps a guy who can destroy reinforced steel with his bare hands, and a girl who can travel over fifty meters in half a second or less....this is where he creates his clones btw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PBUuo3Q3Vjc#!

Everyone bound by this Restrictor guy is pretty much left in complete stasis when they are hit by his paralyze attack, and are forced to follow his command. Weiss is so powerful, however, that he is able to resist this to some degree. I want you to notice how he gets hit by this attack multiple times, and though it prevents him from attacking the restrictor, it's pretty obvious that it's barely effective on him. This is also where Weiss seals his fate (once the Restrictor dies, it releases a deadly poison into Weiss's body, that kills him in 3 days)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XCaWf6Iv_BA#!

Weiss battle playonline. This is a gameplay feat, so they downplay his speed (which when he moves he still practically teleports) and the fact that a single attack form him is deadly...however, you can see he does do the dark orbs, he does move at extreme paces, he can hit the ground hard enough to create shockwaves, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KO09s-61EH8

Weiss easily deflects bullets at point blank range. As you can see, he views them as if they are pretty much stopped in front of him, that's how high his perception is. He does a ranged slice attack as well, which Chaos empowered Vincent can block with his bare hands, and he stomps the ground and rocks fly up in there air, then by merely touching them with his finger, he send them flying as fast as bullets. Also shows off his teleportation once in this fight. The gameplay on this game was horrible, and the boss fights were super easy. However, the cinematic feats show off how tough he is SUPPOSED to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAxOTx5B0w0

Weiss vs. Vincent, after he merges with Nero. He can spin his blades so fast, that AFTER a laser has been fired he can block it with his swords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ucY2k8LhvEU

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#7 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

Your move buuuuuuuddy.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#8 Posted by nickzambuto (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

@nickzambuto:

Your move buuuuuuuddy.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I'm taking my goddamn time.

#9 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@Floopay said:

@nickzambuto:

Your move buuuuuuuddy.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I'm taking my goddamn time.

Who do you think you are? The Goddamn Batman? :P

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#10 Posted by nickzambuto (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@Floopay said:

@nickzambuto:

Your move buuuuuuuddy.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I'm taking my goddamn time.

Who do you think you are? The Goddamn Batman? :P

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

...Maybe.

#11 Posted by nickzambuto (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

LET'S DO THIS

RAARRRGH!!!

As we've been over, Roshi fills more rolls in Dragon Ball then just the mandatory old perv. He also fills the role of the mandatory anime old dude who knows everything. Turtle Hermit is the Einstein of fighting, and with his centuries of experience and tremendous wisdom, he'll know just how to start this battle.

Dashing straight at Weiss, the emperor might find his enemy a bit harder to react to then just mere bullets. Attempting a counter attack, Weiss might feel satisfaction as he watches his sword cleave Roshi right through.

This satisfaction will quickly turn to befuddlement when he realizes the man in front of him was just an after image.

In actuality, the geezer sleuthed around behind Weiss, and will waste no time in delivering a swift martial combo move.

Roshi fights at hypersonic speeds and can create as much as eight after images at once. Weiss will certainly be in for it when the God of Fighting gets his hands on him; is Weiss capable of withstanding a 100 ton haymaker? Because if fighting a guy that rips through steel is his best, I doubt he can compete with Turtle Hermit's power.

Just waving his hand sends a full grown man rocketing 50 feet back, probably be more if Yamcha didn't slam into the stadium. An actual punch though? Doubt that'll feel good on Weiss's pretty face.

#12 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

I think Roshi would take a different route than a straight ahead charge. Weiss was viewing those bullets as if they were completely stopped, and then effortlessly deflected them with his swords. So he's not just a bullet timer, he's much much more. He also was able to counter three Rosso the Crimson's simultaneously. And he was able to block a laser beam AFTER it had been fired. He's actually light speed in reaction times.

Jump to 2:20, and then to 3:00. Out of her empowered state she can easily move at speeds so fast she doesn't even leave a blur behind her, she practically teleports. This is outside of her empowered state. When Weiss fought her, she was not only empowered, but she had two clones of herself to fight with her.

Additionally, Weiss can make two clones of himself. So dealing with Roshi's blurry afterimages isn't going to be that big of a deal. He was able to handle Rosso and Azul before they empowered themselves without his weapons.

Here's Azul. Outside of his empowered mode, his shields can take explosives with zero effect to his person. Through plot devices, Vincent actually defeats him here. But this is outside of his empowered mode. Weiss was able to KO him with a single energy blast while holding back.

The guy is well above a bullet timer. As he can deflect a laser with his swords after they have been fired from only about 20 meters away (at most), he's almost Flash level in reflexes. He can move so fast that he doesn't even leave an after image, and he can contend with Chaos in terms of strength. Chaos was able to throw Azul's weapon so hard it pierced through Azul's body and through his shield, and he was able to do so effortlessly. Now seeing as Azul's shields can tank rocket launchers (ones powerful enough to destroy airships), and something similar to a pound of c4 without any effect to his person or even slowing him down, that's pretty impressive. Azul himself is nearly bullet proof (it took Cerberus, which isn't your normal handgun to even damage him), so to be able to throw a blunt object through a person with that level of durability requires more than a few dozen tons of force to go through. As an RPG can generate well over 36,000 psi (and I mean WELL over) in modern society, and the RPG used here seems to be much more advanced.

I would say Weiss can easily handle 100 ton punches, and his speed is way past hypersonic at this point. Deflected lasers and viewing bullets as moving so slow that they might as well be standing still requires one's perceptions to be well above nanosecond or higher. And to be able to block a laser beam from less than 20 meters away would put him in the fempto-pico second reaction time range.

Roshi has Weiss beat in strength, but Weiss undoubtedly has this in speed and reaction time. I would think Roshi actually has this is fighting skill as well, but the two are probably tied in versatility. However, Weiss also has a huge reach advantage, and combined with his reaction time and his speed, it's going to be difficult for Roshi to close that 7-8 foot gap between Weiss's melee range and his person. Last but certainly not least, we have the fact that Roshi has to deal with 3 of Weiss, not just 1.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#13 Edited by nickzambuto (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Roshi would take a different route than a straight ahead charge.

I can name three fights off the top of my head where he utilized the same tactic, so I'm sure it's a viable strategy in-character.

Weiss was viewing those bullets as if they were completely stopped, and then effortlessly deflected them with his swords. So he's not just a bullet timer, he's much much more.

With all do respect, Wiess needs to be much more than a bullet timer to challenge Master Roshi. That's an impressive street level feat, but by this time in Dragon Ball it's pretty much a basic requirement.

Catching bullets is a lot harder than deflecting, and Roshi grabbed an entire Machine Gun clip in between his fingertips.

Out of her empowered state she can easily move at speeds so fast she doesn't even leave a blur behind her, she practically teleports.

Again, that's really something not even worth bringing up. Roshi has entire fight scenes at those speeds, let alone getting from point A to B.

Considering he's not even serious yet and is only trying to gauge Krillin's power level at this point, if Weiss did anything but speedblitz that girl, Roshi should have a speed advantage.

And he was able to block a laser beam AFTER it had been fired. He's actually light speed in reaction times.

What evidence is there to support that these were real laser beams? Most weaponized lasers are just heat beams, not actual light-speed lasers.

In any case, Goku reacted to Tien's Solar Flare, which is an attack that creates a burst of light, blinding your opponent. That's true light speed reflexes, and Goku was about Master Roshi's equal at this time.

he's almost Flash level in reflexes.

That might be stretching it just a bit.

Chaos was able to throw Azul's weapon so hard it pierced through Azul's body and through his shield, and he was able to do so effortlessly. Now seeing as Azul's shields can tank rocket launchers (ones powerful enough to destroy airships), and something similar to a pound of c4 without any effect to his person or even slowing him down, that's pretty impressive.

Goku's face>Missile

Roshi's foot>Goku's face

I would say Weiss can easily handle 100 ton punches,

How? Taking RPGs is a far cry from a Jackie Chun haymaker; besides, Azul is the one who took RPGs in the first place, not Weiss.

Roshi has Weiss beat in strength, but Weiss undoubtedly has this in speed and reaction time.

...Ehh.

viewing bullets as moving so slow that they might as well be standing still requires one's perceptions to be well above nanosecond or higher.

False. A nanosecond is one billionth of a second, bullets are hardly as fast as that.

...

The biggest advantage Roshi has here is fighting skill. The old man has centuries of experience, training by the greatest masters of his world, and has learned countless styles and techniques over his years, most of which he developed himself.

Lightning Attack, the Bankoku Bikkuri Sho

Artificial lightning infused with ki power, a Roshi original, and one that shows his great fighting knowledge.

Roshi can paralyze you with a tap, hypnotize you with a word, or read your mind at a moments notice. There's a reason he's called the God of Fighting.

He's a top tier martial artist and an incredible battle tactician. If anything, Roshi should be able to outfight Wiess.

#14 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

Roshi should be more skilled, than Weiss, I'll give you that. But speed is definitely in Weiss's corner. Death Penalty is Vincent Valentine's weapon in Dirge of Cerberus, it fires powerful beams. Whether it is heat, electricity, or light, it doesn't matter. It lacks mass and should achieve light speeds the moment it is fired. Even when the video shows Vincent firing his weapon while it is in slow motion the beam instantly appears across the screen, at no point does it show that it fires like a bullet, it instantly appears. Why? Because it's a beam moving at light speeds (lacks mass, therefore can travel at light speeds).

As far as the bullet timing feat, Weiss could have easily snatched those out of the air, as it showed, from his perspective Mach 3 might as well be a movie on pause (Mach 3 is the approximate travel speed of a Colt .45, just a weapon I'm using in comparison, realistically Cerberus should be firing much faster). That's not a bullet timing feat, a bullet timing feat is someone being able to dodge a bullet like Spiderman. Someone viewing it not even moving, that's a showing of how high someone's perceptions are.

Weiss was shown able to deflect Vincent's beams with his swords from less than 20 meters away. You can downplay that as much as you want, but plain and simply it's about as high a reaction feat as you can get.

As far as him vs. Azul goes, I was simply pointing out his hitting power is much higher than you may think, and that's with his fists, and his energy attacks. A sword would amplify his striking power by several hundred times (as it would decrease the area in which the force is distributed, hence why a sword has more cutting power than a mace). Over and above this he can speed blitz someone who moves at speeds so high she might as well be teleporting, and that was while he was going easy on someone. Same with Azul, he was easily able to breach Azul's normal defenses, and then easily overcame his empowered defenses. The guy takes regular gunfire without any real harm to his person, and Vincent was only able to harm him after he was empowered by Chaos. And once he was in his empowered form he was able to match Chaos (a planetary threat level being).

Over and above this he took a shot from Death Penalty head on, something that up until then had pretty much incinerated anything it came into contact with. Omega Weapon tendrils were so powerful it took heavy explosives to break them, and an all out attack from Cloud Strife to sever them. Yet when Chaos fights Omega's tendril's, body, and it's army, Death Penalty instantly destroys them in a single blast. If you watch the Vincent vs. Weiss video, he clearly tanks a shot and has little to no damage done to his person. He then goes on to dodge several laser beams while him and Vincent are traveling so fast they don't even leave an afterimage, and finally blocks one head on.

Weiss is more than just a bullet timer, you can question how fast a beam with no mass travels all day, but it was portrayed as a laser beam weapon (there were several laser beam weapons in the game) and there was nothing in the game to suggest it wasn't a laser beam. Over and above this, he watched a bullet travel

Weiss should be pretty much immune to mind affecting attacks, as he has spent an ample amount of time around his brother, Nero. Nero has these dark wisps that float around him, they move chaotically and uncontrollably. Anyone touched by one of these is sent into mental anguish. In Weiss's background, it explains it a bit more.

Weiss still has the reach advantage. I've watched more than a few boxing matches. Someone with only a few inches in their reach advantage can change the tide of a fight drastically. Weiss without his weapons should have quite the reach advantage on Roshi, and with them has several feat. Add to that his immense speed and his lightning fast reflexes (quite literally actually...), and Roshi will have a hard time getting close enough for melee combat. As far as ranged combat goes, Weiss has the speed to dodge, and more than a few ranged attacks of his own. Ranged slashing attacks, energy orbs, and gun fire (via his swords, yes they're gun swords). Roshi's are more powerful, but Weiss's aren't exactly non-lethal either.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#15 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Alright, if you're done debating we'll put this to a vote.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay