Challenge a viner: Edward Elric vs Arkham Batman

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I'll be representing the Arkham version of Batman:

No Caption Provided

@pacpanda will be representig Edward Elric:

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Rules:

  • Fight to death, KO or an incapacitation.
  • This is the Arkham version of Batman from the Arkham games, and tie-ins are allowed.
  • This is standard Edward Elric (if he is in Managas, then they're allowed as well.
  • They start about 150 feet away from each other.
  • Morals on for both.
  • This is at night.

Fight takes place here:

No Caption Provided

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@captain_batman_ftw: Go ahead. I'm going somewhere, so don't expect a response for a few hours.

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A fight between two veru prolific and talented street levelers. I look forward to seeing how it goes down

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@pacpanda: Since I have nothing to do, I'll start out by saying that Batman can win over Edward by the use of his striking power, skills and maybe some equipment as well. He can tank most of his hits because he has the durability to do so and endurance to endure it.

Stealth

Since they start about 150 feet away from each other, this can be used as a viable tactic. The cars in this parking lot will help Batman take cover like he did against Deadshot (he did it twice), Mr.Freeze (twice), Bane, snipers, military trained men, ninjas and random thugs.

Here's against Deadshoot:

Loading Video...

As shown in this video, Batman will use cover to go from one point to the other without Edward being able to notice, and I'm sure Edward won't be able to hear someone who can use his stealth to take out ninjas. Here is the second encounter (first one in the chronological timeline, to be accurate):

Loading Video...

This one is even better, because Deadshot wasn't the only person in this room, multiple other thugs were here as well.

Here is the one with ninjas:

Loading Video...

7:17, he used his stealth very well.

Against Mr.Freeze:

Loading Video...

So it's safe for me to use stealth as my firsttactic.

H2H

If stealth fails, Batman could just continue to beat him until he is knocked out. He managed to beat Killer Croc with his fists, while in the same fight, Croc was tanking huge explosions, Croc was tanking hits from Mr.Hammer with Mr.Hammer's hammer. In Batman's first enouncter with Mr.Hammer, his hammer was creating small craters in the ground, and Killer Croc was tanking these just fine, but Batman managed to take him out with his immensely powerful striking.

Loading Video...
  • 0:34, you can see the size of the explosion here.
  • At 1:04, he tanked this explosion.
  • At 1:30, he tanks the same kind of explosion again.
  • 2:02. he tanks it again.
  • 2:13, Killer Croc has no visible damage, and he was laughing, so you can't say that Croc was already exhausted from the explosions.
  • Batman managed to finish him off with his striking power at 2:41.

I can show more examples, but for now, I'll add one more. This is a strategy Batman can use if Edward isn't getting put down by Batman's fist: Batman can use explosive gel to put it on his fist to make his striking power that much better like he has done three times. One time with the Joker, another with two siblings who were hired by Two-Face (but betrayed him) who had full control over the titan effect and lastly when he was using it one armed Tyger guards. Also, if Edward has durability above Batman, he won't hold back at all, as he didn't hold back as he did against the titan injected siblings hired by Two-Face.

Scan 1-2: He did it against the Joker. Scan 3: He did it against Tyger guards who had everything equal to Batman due to Hugo Strange preparing them. Scan 4: If you look at the third panel, Batman says that he doesn't hold back against people who are superior to him strenght and durability wise.

I've seen that Edward is no slouch in the speed department either, but that won't be a problem for Batman.

His perception speed combined with his body speed has allowed him to dodge bullets from turrets, even block them and dodge a missile.

No Caption Provided

He dodged it after it was blocked, and he even blocked one or two of them.

No Caption Provided

He managed to dodge a missile after it was shot by the Joker.

These are my two first plans. I think it can work, but I'll see what happens further on in this debate.

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#9  Edited By PacPanda

@captain_batman_ftw I might as well organize my counter arguments.

Stealth

Edward Elric has been shown to use smoke from explosions as well as decoys to his advantage in his fights. He wears black clothing in most of his fights, and he is small, so stealth wouldn't exactly work in Batman's favor if he doesn't know where Edward is.

No Caption Provided

Remember, manga is read from right to left.

H2H

Batman does not want to H2H Edward. If Batman gets in range of Edward's hand, he's dead. Let me show you why:

No Caption Provided

Edward can dissolve things with his hands. In alchemy, this is known as decomposition. If Edward's hand were to touch Batman, he would get decomposed through his suit. Even if he doesn't use this technique, Edward's H2H shows he is far more agile than Batman.

Loading Video...

Just skip to 2:00. That's where the real display begins.

He's tanking shots from someone who can shatter concrete like it's nothing.

Your turn. Oh, here' the concrete shattering proof:

No Caption Provided

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@pacpanda:

Stealth

Edward Elric has been shown to use smoke from explosions as well as decoys to his advantage in his fights. He wears black clothing in most of his fights, and he is small, so stealth wouldn't exactly work in Batman's favor if he doesn't know where Edward is.

First of all, this isn't countering anything I brought up with the tactic of Batman using stealth. It will still work, cause you haven't shown anything to suggest that it doesn't work. Also, smoke is no problem to Batman. He has something that's called Detective Mode. He can see through walls with it, see the heart rate of people, see their skeleton and just see them regardless of it being smoke there or not. Detective Mode will automatically be turned on by Batman, so he will have no problem seeing Edward through smoke. Another thing I wonder about this post is why smoke is relevant when I didn't plan on using it as a tactic. Where does the smoke come from, if I may ask? Also, here is the how Detective Mode works:

Loading Video...
  • 3:02. You can see how it works here. It can see through walls and through smoke. So no problem for Batman with smoke. I can post videos to support my claim about him being able to see through smoke by the use of Detective Mode.

Batman does not want to H2H Edward. If Batman gets in range of Edward's hand, he's dead. Let me show you why:

No Caption Provided

Well, then that's a good thing Batman has Detective Mode. The Detective Mode labels people who are armed with weapons orange. As you saw in the video I showed you above, the guys were painted orange due to them having weapons. Even if he doesn't use it, he'll be wanting to dodge Edward's attacks, and from what I have shown, he should have no problem doing so.

Even if he doesn't use this technique, Edward's H2H shows he is far more agile than Batman.

No he's not. Batman uses Muay Thai alot in this game and he does jump around a lot in his fights. Batman fought groups upon groups in the games which needs space to do so, and he was jumping around a lot and quickly bullrushing people multiple times. Just to show something from the Arkham games, here's how his agility was portrayed in Assault At Arkham:

Loading Video...
  • 0:15, Batman dodges an ice blast while fighting someone. He does the same thing at 1:13. He was even out-pacing this same blaster at 1:15.
  • 0:18, Batman was dodging bullets fired by Deadshot, and before you say that he was aim-dodging, that's not what he was doing. He was legitimatly dodging bullets after they were fired, because Deadshot in the Arkham games easily hit a bullseye with his firearms.
  • At 1:52, he dodges a missile after it had been shot, this isn't exactly agility, but I'll count is a reaction time feat cause the video is already here.

This is how accurate Deadshot was in the Arkham games, so the aim-dodging argument isn't going to work.

He's tanking shots from someone who can shatter concrete like it's nothing.

Your turn. Oh, here' the concrete shattering proof:

No Caption Provided

He was almost knocked out at 0:30 when Greed hit him. Speaking of durability.

Loading Video...
  • 1:20. He easily tanked this attack where this being (Shark or womething like that) ran through multiple of these wooden boxes, and Batman effortlessly tanked it. If you don't know how powerful this being was, then I'll go ahead and say that this same being managed to tank a fall to a car when their parachutes failed them, so his body alone was packing quite the force.
Loading Video...
  • 12:30, he tanked getting thrown into a brick wall by Bane.
  • At 12:39, he tanked multiple hits from Bane and he tanked one hit that sent him flying through the brick wall.

Just to give a short summary:

This battle is already extremely one-sided as you haven't shown anything useful yet to say that Edward would beat Batman. Batman has durability to tank his hits, whereas the same can't be said for the opposition. My stealth tactic will work, cause you haven't shown anything to say that it won't.

All in all, Batman can use stealth as his first tactic, but if that fails, he could just beat him senselessly, and I've showed by the transmutation thing won't work.

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#13  Edited By PacPanda

@captain_batman_ftw said:

@pacpanda:

Stealth

Edward Elric has been shown to use smoke from explosions as well as decoys to his advantage in his fights. He wears black clothing in most of his fights, and he is small, so stealth wouldn't exactly work in Batman's favor if he doesn't know where Edward is.

First of all, this isn't countering anything I brought up with the tactic of Batman using stealth. It will still work, cause you haven't shown anything to suggest that it doesn't work. Also, smoke is no problem to Batman. He has something that's called Detective Mode. He can see through walls with it, see the heart rate of people, see their skeleton and just see them regardless of it being smoke there or not. Detective Mode will automatically be turned on by Batman, so he will have no problem seeing Edward through smoke. Another thing I wonder about this post is why smoke is relevant when I didn't plan on using it as a tactic. Where does the smoke come from, if I may ask? Also, here is the how Detective Mode works:

Loading Video...
  • 3:02. You can see how it works here. It can see through walls and through smoke. So no problem for Batman with smoke. I can post videos to support my claim about him being able to see through smoke by the use of Detective Mode.

Alright, good on Batman for detective mode. You never did, but I was assuming Batman uses smoke bombs? Alright, I have nothing against this. The only thing working in this category for Edward is his alertness, which is no match for Batman's stealth.

Batman does not want to H2H Edward. If Batman gets in range of Edward's hand, he's dead. Let me show you why:

No Caption Provided

Well, then that's a good thing Batman has Detective Mode. The Detective Mode labels people who are armed with weapons orange. As you saw in the video I showed you above, the guys were painted orange due to them having weapons.

Edward's metal arm is not a weapon, its a prosthetic. Alchemy doesn't come from his arm, it's a skill, not something that comes form a weapon.

Even if he doesn't use it, he'll be wanting to dodge Edward's attacks, and from what I have shown, he should have no problem doing so.

What if the attacks are all over the battlefield? He can transmute all of the ground around Batman into spikes and things, as shown in the following video:

Loading Video...

You don't even have to go too far too see what Edward can do. If Batman does dodge these, don't worry, I still have a pleasant surprise.

Loading Video...

Skip to around 3:00. Edward transmutes a large cannon. The parking lot gives Edward a lot of material to work with. Metal and stone are where he is more efficient. Edward obliterates Batman with the explosion. Batman can't use Roy's strategy either as to how to stop the cannon because he doesn't have that kind of firepower.

Even if he doesn't use this technique, Edward's H2H shows he is far more agile than Batman.

No he's not. Batman uses Muay Thai alot in this game and he does jump around a lot in his fights. Batman fought groups upon groups in the games which needs space to do so, and he was jumping around a lot and quickly bullrushing people multiple times. Just to show something from the Arkham games, here's how his agility was portrayed in Assault At Arkham:

Loading Video...
  • 0:15, Batman dodges an ice blast while fighting someone. He does the same thing at 1:13. He was even out-pacing this same blaster at 1:15.
  • 0:18, Batman was dodging bullets fired by Deadshot, and before you say that he was aim-dodging, that's not what he was doing. He was legitimatly dodging bullets after they were fired, because Deadshot in the Arkham games easily hit a bullseye with his firearms.
  • At 1:52, he dodges a missile after it had been shot, this isn't exactly agility, but I'll count is a reaction time feat cause the video is already here.

This is how accurate Deadshot was in the Arkham games, so the aim-dodging argument isn't going to work.

Alright. Batman has the advantage in agility. However, Edward's H2H is applied to a stronger opponent, while Batman's is applied to multiple weak ones. Am I calling Batman weak? Of course not.

He's tanking shots from someone who can shatter concrete like it's nothing.

Your turn. Oh, here' the concrete shattering proof:

No Caption Provided

He was almost knocked out at 0:30 when Greed hit him. Speaking of durability.

This is beginning-mid series Edward. Edward is much more skilled and durable nearing the end of the series. For example, near-end series Edward tanked a large building-small city block sized explosion + a thick pole (heh) through the body. Survived. First one is the explosion, second is his condition.

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

He decomposes it and lies down. Injured, yes. Capable of moving, yes. Dead, no. He decomposes the pole in the first square of the second one.

Loading Video...
  • 1:20. He easily tanked this attack where this being (Shark or womething like that) ran through multiple of these wooden boxes, and Batman effortlessly tanked it. If you don't know how powerful this being was, then I'll go ahead and say that this same being managed to tank a fall to a car when their parachutes failed them, so his body alone was packing quite the force.
Loading Video...
  • 12:30, he tanked getting thrown into a brick wall by Bane.
  • At 12:39, he tanked multiple hits from Bane and he tanked one hit that sent him flying through the brick wall.

Just to give a short summary:

This battle is already extremely one-sided as you haven't shown anything useful yet to say that Edward would beat Batman. Batman has durability to tank his hits, whereas the same can't be said for the opposition. My stealth tactic will work, cause you haven't shown anything to say that it won't.

All in all, Batman can use stealth as his first tactic, but if that fails, he could just beat him senselessly, and I've showed by the transmutation thing won't work.

As for the first thing in bold, yes it can. Batman's punches are not explosion level. However, stealth I can't argue against. And as for the third one, no you haven't. Batman can get decomposed. A touch to the head would be fatal, as it would blow his brains out. Your move, @captain_batman_ftw.

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@pacpanda:

Alright, good on Batman for detective mode. You never did, but I was assuming Batman uses smoke bombs? Alright, I have nothing against this. The only thing working in this category for Edward is his alertness, which is no match for Batman's stealth.

This will work, as you just admitted, and from what I've shown from Batman's striking power, he should have no trouble taking out Edward by surprise.

Edward's metal arm is not a weapon, its a prosthetic. Alchemy doesn't come from his arm, it's a skill, not something that comes form a weapon.

I didn't know. Edward, from what I have seen, will probably make ablade out of his Alchemy skills, which then will be revealed to be a weapon to Batman. Regardless, Edward's punches aren't going to connect with Batman's body because you haven't showcased anything that says so.

What if the attacks are all over the battlefield? He can transmute all of the ground around Batman into spikes and things, as shown in the following video:

This won't be a problem, because Batman has shown the agility to outrun stuff faster than this. He outran the ice blaster (which is faster than Edward's attacksst) and here is just an example that he can outrun it or dodge those types of attacks:

Loading Video...

0:46: He dodges Firefly's flames, and he even manages to dodges an attack that was spread across the battlefield at 2:56 (the flames covered more of it than what Edward's attack did. Start the video from 3:34 and you'll see that Batman manages to outrun Firefly's attacks while the battlefield isn't a place to manouvre their bodies and such. Edward's not taggin Batman with any of thsoe rocks.

Skip to around 3:00. Edward transmutes a large cannon. The parking lot gives Edward a lot of material to work with. Metal and stone are where he is more efficient. Edward obliterates Batman with the explosion. Batman can't use Roy's strategy either as to how to stop the cannon because he doesn't have that kind of firepower.

Edward doesn't do this all the time, does he? Even if he does this consistently, he's still not tagging him., considering batman's agility, cause once he sees the cannon, he's going to jump around alot and try to avoid it, and Edward isn't tagging someone as agile as Batman with his cannon. I'm not sure that Edward uses that canon as his main tactic consistently, and I'll show a showing of Batman's equipment that is powerful enough to bust up that cannon of his:

Loading Video...

0:21, you can see the size of the explosion from Batman's batarang here. This should be enough to bust up that cannon of his. Not sure he'll even consider using it as a tactic, since he was greatly outclassed in that instance you showed, but he's not outclassed here so much. He is outclassed by Batman IMO, but not as much as the other dude was outclassing him, and the most probable reason as for why he made a cannon was because of the other dude outclassing him by alot.

lright. Batman has the advantage in agility. However, Edward's H2H is applied to a stronger opponent, while Batman's is applied to multiple weak ones. Am I calling Batman weak? Of course not.

Multiple weak ones? Is Killer Croc weak? Is Bane weak (keep in mind that Bane was easily throwing around police cars in Assault on Arkham, and he was easily defeating other titan enhanced people)? Is Titans weak in the slightest? Is Mr.Freeze weak? Is Titan enhanced Joker weak? Poison Ivy? Is Clayface weak? Not sure why you would want to call Batman's rogues gallery weak, cause bringing in the fodders shouldn't count.

Killer Croc had the durability to tank explosions and rifle bullets to the face, but Batman knocked him out. Clearly good striking power there. He has the H2H advantage in my opinion. Karate kick mixed with Muay Thai combined with his superior speed and striking power, he should be capable of taking him out. Specially when he has the element of surprise against him due to my stealth tactic.

This is beginning-mid series Edward. Edward is much more skilled and durable nearing the end of the series. For example, near-end series Edward tanked a large building-small city block sized explosion + a thick pole (heh) through the body. Survived. First one is the explosion, second is his condition.

He couldn't say anything, how's that tanking it? He couldn't even stand up, and he almost died due to it. He could barely move, and not to mention that consistent hits from Batman (with the striking power I've shown), Batman takes him out with blunt force.

As for the first thing in bold, yes it can. Batman's punches are not explosion level. However, stealth I can't argue against. And as for the third one, no you haven't. Batman can get decomposed. A touch to the head would be fatal, as it would blow his brains out. Your move, @captain_batman_ftw.

I didn't mean that he'd be resistant to transmutation, I meant that the transmutation tactic won't work, and I did prove that. His punches aren't explosion level, but if he can take out someone who easily tanks huge explosions like nothing, then he clearly has more force to it than the explosion.

As shown, I have planned out a stealth tactic, which you admitted would work, and with his striking power, skill and speed, he should be able to take him out by the use of the elemt of surprise. Another thing I noticed is that you haven't provided any speed feats to say that Edward can tag him in H2H, and the other stuff, I have successfully countered.

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#16  Edited By PacPanda

@pacpanda:

Alright, good on Batman for detective mode. You never did, but I was assuming Batman uses smoke bombs? Alright, I have nothing against this. The only thing working in this category for Edward is his alertness, which is no match for Batman's stealth.

This will work, as you just admitted, and from what I've shown from Batman's striking power, he should have no trouble taking out Edward by surprise.

Edward's metal arm is not a weapon, its a prosthetic. Alchemy doesn't come from his arm, it's a skill, not something that comes form a weapon.

I didn't know. Edward, from what I have seen, will probably make ablade out of his Alchemy skills, which then will be revealed to be a weapon to Batman. Regardless, Edward's punches aren't going to connect with Batman's body because you haven't showcased anything that says so.

If they're both very close to each other (which is the point of H2H) I don't see why not. However, if you want a speed feat:

No Caption Provided
Edward was reaching blur-to-human-eye speeds late in the series. Him laughing was him showing happiness at how light he felt.

This won't be a problem, because Batman has shown the agility to outrun stuff faster than this. He outran the ice blaster (which is faster than Edward's attacksst) and here is just an example that he can outrun it or dodge those types of attacks:

Loading Video...

0:46: He dodges Firefly's flames, and he even manages to dodges an attack that was spread across the battlefield at 2:56 (the flames covered more of it than what Edward's attack did. Start the video from 3:34 and you'll see that Batman manages to outrun Firefly's attacks while the battlefield isn't a place to manouvre their bodies and such. Edward's not taggin Batman with any of thsoe rocks.

Alright, good feat.

Skip to around 3:00. Edward transmutes a large cannon. The parking lot gives Edward a lot of material to work with. Metal and stone are where he is more efficient. Edward obliterates Batman with the explosion. Batman can't use Roy's strategy either as to how to stop the cannon because he doesn't have that kind of firepower.

Edward doesn't do this all the time, does he? Even if he does this consistently, he's still not tagging him., considering batman's agility, cause once he sees the cannon, he's going to jump around alot and try to avoid it, and Edward isn't tagging someone as agile as Batman with his cannon. I'm not sure that Edward uses that canon as his main tactic consistently, and I'll show a showing of Batman's equipment that is powerful enough to bust up that cannon of his:

Loading Video...

0:21, you can see the size of the explosion from Batman's batarang here. This should be enough to bust up that cannon of his. Not sure he'll even consider using it as a tactic, since he was greatly outclassed in that instance you showed, but he's not outclassed here so much. He is outclassed by Batman IMO, but not as much as the other dude was outclassing him, and the most probable reason as for why he made a cannon was because of the other dude outclassing him by alot.

lright. Batman has the advantage in agility. However, Edward's H2H is applied to a stronger opponent, while Batman's is applied to multiple weak ones. Am I calling Batman weak? Of course not.

Multiple weak ones? Is Killer Croc weak? Is Bane weak (keep in mind that Bane was easily throwing around police cars in Assault on Arkham, and he was easily defeating other titan enhanced people)? Is Titans weak in the slightest? Is Mr.Freeze weak? Is Titan enhanced Joker weak? Poison Ivy? Is Clayface weak? Not sure why you would want to call Batman's rogues gallery weak, cause bringing in the fodders shouldn't count.

I was talking about the Batman vs Suicide Squad video, but whatever.

Killer Croc had the durability to tank explosions and rifle bullets to the face, but Batman knocked him out. Clearly good striking power there. He has the H2H advantage in my opinion. Karate kick mixed with Muay Thai combined with his superior speed and striking power, he should be capable of taking him out. Specially when he has the element of surprise against him due to my stealth tactic.

Batman hasn't been shown to reach blur-to-human-eye speeds. Speed isn't the issue, however I'm scared strength will be.

This is beginning-mid series Edward. Edward is much more skilled and durable nearing the end of the series. For example, near-end series Edward tanked a large building-small city block sized explosion + a thick pole (heh) through the body. Survived. First one is the explosion, second is his condition.

He couldn't say anything, how's that tanking it? He couldn't even stand up, and he almost died due to it. He could barely move, and not to mention that consistent hits from Batman (with the striking power I've shown), Batman takes him out with blunt force.

He'd have to hit him first. When he does (notice I'm not saying if, I know he will, Batman's skilled), it'd take a while for Batman to knock him out. In terms of H2H Strength, Batman. In terms of H2H Speed, Edward. In terms of H2H skill, I'd put them at the same level. Versatility, Edward. Reaction time, can't judge. Combat experience... I don't know how to judge this one. Stealth? Batman. Durability... show me something above what Edward survived, and I'll say Batman.

As for the first thing in bold, yes it can. Batman's punches are not explosion level. However, stealth I can't argue against. And as for the third one, no you haven't. Batman can get decomposed. A touch to the head would be fatal, as it would blow his brains out. Your move, @captain_batman_ftw.

I didn't mean that he'd be resistant to transmutation, I meant that the transmutation tactic won't work, and I did prove that. His punches aren't explosion level, but if he can take out someone who easily tanks huge explosions like nothing, then he clearly has more force to it than the explosion.

Oh, hey look, a power scaler who thinks logically. You're a rare sight.

As shown, I have planned out a stealth tactic, which you admitted would work, and with his striking power, skill and speed, he should be able to take him out by the use of the elemt of surprise. Another thing I noticed is that you haven't provided any speed feats to say that Edward can tag him in H2H, and the other stuff, I have successfully countered.

Speed feat added.

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@pacpanda:

If they're both very close to each other (which is the point of H2H) I don't see why not. However, if you want a speed feat:

No Caption Provided
Edward was reaching blur-to-human-eye speeds late in the series. Him laughing was him showing happiness at how light he felt.

May I see a scan or video of it? Regardless, that's not even half as fast as someone who can temporarily outrun chopper turrets and shots from Deadshot. A blur to the human eye feats won't help him either when Batman sees Edward's damage output.

I was talking about the Batman vs Suicide Squad video, but whatever.

Sorry, you said that he applied it to weak opponents which made me think his casual rogues gallery. Even so, King Shark is nowhere near weak, the guy tanked a steel beam falling on his head as if it didn't even happen. Also, another feat of King Shark is where Killer Frost's parachute didn't work, so King shark sacrificed himself and tried to save her. He went down and got her, and landed on a car (which got wrecked by his impact) and tanked it as if it was nothing. He was also taking bullets to his body in Superman-style.

Batman hasn't been shown to reach blur-to-human-eye speeds. Speed isn't the issue, however I'm scared strength will be.

He's shown faster. Being able to outrun ice-blasts and Firefly's heat waves, and dodge bullets after they were shot is clearly faster than blur to the eye; in fact, Batman has shown the ability to run faster than what the human eye can see. Here are some feats to suggest that:

Loading Video...

Skip to 0:40, and the guys couldn't even perceive him, even though he was right in front of them.

Loading Video...

Skip to 1:33, and you'll se that he was outpacing bullets from choppers.

You've seen some other speed and agilty feats, so no need to continue. You haven't shown anything to suggest that Edward won't get tagged by Batman.

He'd have to hit him first. When he does (notice I'm not saying if, I know he will, Batman's skilled), it'd take a while for Batman to knock him out. In terms of H2H Strength, Batman. In terms of H2H Speed, Edward. In terms of H2H skill, I'd put them at the same level. Versatility, Edward. Reaction time, can't judge. Combat experience... I don't know how to judge this one. Stealth? Batman. Durability... show me something above what Edward survived, and I'll say Batman.

No, it won't actually take him long time to knock him out when I have the element of surprise. How can you say that Edward has superior H2H feats when his best one is being able to move so fast that he's a blur to the human eye, while I've shown Batman (by the use of agility in combat) dodging a blast from Mr.Freeze's weapon (those ice blasts), dodge shots from Deadshot, dodge bullets from turrets and a missilie? Seems wrong to me. You haven't shown anything to suggest that Edward is superior to Batman in H2H whereas I've planned out a H2H tactic where he uses a combination of Karate and Muay Thai (which he actually did use, and I'm actually a martial artist, a bad one, but I can still recognize the style when seeing it), if that's not good enough, then Batman has been trained to master the world's deadliest martial arts:

Loading Video...

0:30 (Pause at 0:30): ''On his final leg of his journey to master some of the deadliest martial arts, young Bruce Wayne trekked through mountainous region of North-Korea searching for the fabled monastry Togakure-Ryu had been taught since the Oho period.''

Batman has the H2H advantage in my opinion, not to mention that you haven't shown very good blunt force durability feats for Edward.

You can have versatility, but not reaction times, nowhere close cause you haven't even shown anything to say that, let alone it being close. Batman has enough combat experience. Edward can have the advanatage in durability, but Edward's not tanking Batman's punches for long due to having the element of surprise. I also forgot to show you showings of what the explosive gel's damage output, because I said Batman can use that as a strategy.

Loading Video...

Skip to 12:50: The ice doesn't look so thick, but after the explosion, you can see that it's quite thick. Add this to Batman's own striking power, and Edward's not tanking these punches for very long due to the element of surprise.

Also, I'm done with everything I have to say, so make your post and add anything you want, and we can go to voting, sounds okay?

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#18  Edited By PacPanda

@pacpanda:

If they're both very close to each other (which is the point of H2H) I don't see why not. However, if you want a speed feat:

No Caption Provided
Edward was reaching blur-to-human-eye speeds late in the series. Him laughing was him showing happiness at how light he felt.

May I see a scan or video of it? Regardless, that's not even half as fast as someone who can temporarily outrun chopper turrets and shots from Deadshot. A blur to the human eye feats won't help him either when Batman sees Edward's damage output.

The scan above what you said is the scan.

I was talking about the Batman vs Suicide Squad video, but whatever.

Sorry, you said that he applied it to weak opponents which made me think his casual rogues gallery. Even so, King Shark is nowhere near weak, the guy tanked a steel beam falling on his head as if it didn't even happen. Also, another feat of King Shark is where Killer Frost's parachute didn't work, so King shark sacrificed himself and tried to save her. He went down and got her, and landed on a car (which got wrecked by his impact) and tanked it as if it was nothing. He was also taking bullets to his body in Superman-style.

Batman hasn't been shown to reach blur-to-human-eye speeds. Speed isn't the issue, however I'm scared strength will be.

He's shown faster. Being able to outrun ice-blasts and Firefly's heat waves, and dodge bullets after they were shot is clearly faster than blur to the eye; in fact, Batman has shown the ability to run faster than what the human eye can see. Here are some feats to suggest that:

Loading Video...

Skip to 0:40, and the guys couldn't even perceive him, even though he was right in front of them.

Loading Video...

Skip to 1:33, and you'll se that he was outpacing bullets from choppers.

You've seen some other speed and agilty feats, so no need to continue. You haven't shown anything to suggest that Edward won't get tagged by Batman.

Things proven by the preceding: Batman is faster than Edward, but the difference isn't too much. However, this will make a difference later in the fight.

He'd have to hit him first. When he does (notice I'm not saying if, I know he will, Batman's skilled), it'd take a while for Batman to knock him out. In terms of H2H Strength, Batman. In terms of H2H Speed, Edward. In terms of H2H skill, I'd put them at the same level. Versatility, Edward. Reaction time, can't judge. Combat experience... I don't know how to judge this one. Stealth? Batman. Durability... show me something above what Edward survived, and I'll say Batman.

No, it won't actually take him long time to knock him out when I have the element of surprise. How can you say that Edward has superior H2H feats when his best one is being able to move so fast that he's a blur to the human eye, while I've shown Batman (by the use of agility in combat) dodging a blast from Mr.Freeze's weapon (those ice blasts), dodge shots from Deadshot, dodge bullets from turrets and a missilie? Seems wrong to me. You haven't shown anything to suggest that Edward is superior to Batman in H2H whereas I've planned out a H2H tactic where he uses a combination of Karate and Muay Thai (which he actually did use, and I'm actually a martial artist, a bad one, but I can still recognize the style when seeing it), if that's not good enough, then Batman has been trained to master the world's deadliest martial arts:

Loading Video...

0:30 (Pause at 0:30): ''On his final leg of his journey to master some of the deadliest martial arts, young Bruce Wayne trekked through mountainous region of North-Korea searching for the fabled monastry Togakure-Ryu had been taught since the Oho period.''

Batman has the H2H advantage in my opinion, not to mention that you haven't shown very good blunt force durability feats for Edward.

The difference in their H2H styles annoys me, because simulating them against each other is difficult...

You can have versatility, but not reaction times, nowhere close cause you haven't even shown anything to say that, let alone it being close. Batman has enough combat experience. Edward can have the advanatage in durability, but Edward's not tanking Batman's punches for long due to having the element of surprise. I also forgot to show you showings of what the explosive gel's damage output, because I said Batman can use that as a strategy.

Edward's a bullet timer:

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

You can see here Cornello (the old bald man) started shooting before the wall was up. Reaction time level: bullet.

Loading Video...

Skip to 12:50: The ice doesn't look so thick, but after the explosion, you can see that it's quite thick. Add this to Batman's own striking power, and Edward's not tanking these punches for very long due to the element of surprise.

Also, I'm done with everything I have to say, so make your post and add anything you want, and we can go to voting, sounds okay?

Voting sounds good. I probably lost, I was too passive this debate... :P

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@captain_batman_ftw: Gets my vote. I say he won for the same reason I lost in a match similar to this, stealth. PacPanda, like myself, just couldn't counter it.

Also, I didn't vote against for this or anything, but your countering style is kinda hard to read, Pac. It makes it difficult for me to distinguish between your arguments and your opponents. I'd recommend bolding it or taking it out of quotes, but that's just me.

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#21  Edited By TheDandyMan

Well done @pacpanda for doing a CaV with 430 posts, many don't begin until later so that's nice to see. However, I'll give my vote to @captain_batman_ftw due to the fact that his argument was laid out in a more readable way as well as a good explanation of feats.

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