#1 Posted by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
LLLADDDIIIIEEESSS, GENTLEMEN, AND TRANSGENDERS! Today, we have the greatest street-level matchup and most epic debate of all time!
  
 In one corner we have the intellectual, physical hardass that everybody knows and tweets about: DEATHSTROKE!!!!!!!!!!! 
Titans #24
 
And in the other corner, we have the underrated wannabe sexy urologist: ALBERT WESKER!!! 
Rules: 
-Fight is to the death. 
-Wesker is armed with his Samurai Edge, shades, two frags, a silenced M9, combat knife, and a PP2000. 
-Deathstroke is armed his power staff, an ACR Grenedier w/ ACOG scope, dual Deagles, one frag, a combat knife, and a katana. 
-Both are unaware of what the other is capable of. 
-They start 40 ft. away from each other. 
-Location:   
  
 @nickzambuto: Let the games begin!
#2 Posted by nickzambuto (13057 posts) - - Show Bio

One of my absolute FAVORITE fights; one of the few I'd truly pay to see, just because I know how badass it'd be (well, maybe see wasn't the right word. Doubt you'd actually see much of anything besides a couple light streaks in this fight :P)

However, as always, Wesker is simply superior in everything that matters. Strength, skill, endurance - speed,

Case in point ^

Chris Redfield weaves through Chain Gun Fire, and Jill has always been displayed as faster than him. The duo pretty much see in slow motion when their blood gets pumping (displayed at several points in RE5) and still can't even begin to keep track of Wesker.

Laser dodging, not as easy as it appears; the enhanced perception displayed by the two agents allows them to analyze each individual laser as it speeds towards them, predict their trajectory, and mentally plan out the best way as to which maneuver their body so as the laser just barely avoids them. Then, to perfectly act out said plan in real time; impossible.

What we see in the Resident Evil cutscenes isn't actually what's happening. We see it through Chris and Jill's filter, their perception. So, according to two of the most skilled agents their planet has to offer, Wesker's speed is inhuman. The man blitzes through bullets without effort, standing on one side of the room and appearing on the opposite instantly without even changing stances. He literally outruns explosions, and not a man alive is capable of countering his strikes. Deathstroke is a bullet timer, but Wesker has already blitzed those.

And that's what brings me to my opening strategy. With his unyielding speed, Wesker will immediately open the fight with a barrage of gunfire and other assortment of assault. In the face of one of S.T.A.R.S. best marksman, Deathstroke will be forced to take cover.

9:10

Using this to his advantage, Wesker will press the attack and continue forward.

All this happens in about 3 seconds.

Slade may try to return fire, but it will take Wesker no longer than a microsecond to clear the space between them and engage in h2h. (So far, this comes down to who'll be quicker on the draw. Considering Wesker moves his hands at speeds enough to catch an RPG Missile with his bare hands after it's already inches from his face, I'd say he'll start shooting first. Even if Deathstroke does pull the trigger first though, he isn't the marksman to tag Wesker. Meanwhile, the urologist's odds of tagging Slade are likewise arguable, but one thing is for sure - Slade can't take a direct bullet. If he's as smart as he's said to be, he will take cover, and thus...)

Utilizing his advanced technique (more than a match for Deathstroke) and near-universally superior stats, Wesker should be well capable of defeating the Terminator.

Cliffs-

:Wesker blitzes through bullets from top tier marksman; Deathstroke's speed is not a match for his

:Wesker, as an experienced gunman, shall draw and fire first. Deathstroke will take cover as any sensible fighter would, giving Albert the opening he needs to cross the distance and engage h2h

:Stats + training ftw

Alternately

Wesker doesn't engage h2h. He keeps it a shootout, dodges all of Slade's bullets, soaking the few he can't, and eventually gets a good hit in. As the superior marksman, Wesker can win in a gunfight much easier than CC. A fist fight is just more interesting.

#3 Posted by Sherlock (7246 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: Kick his butt Nick! 
 
No offense to Fetts
#4 Edited by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sherlock: You're dead to me. 
 

@nickzambuto

said:

@Fetts

One of my absolute FAVORITE fights; one of the few I'd truly pay to see, just because I know how badass it'd be (well, maybe see wasn't the right word. Doubt you'd actually see much of anything besides a couple light streaks in this fight :P)

However, as always, Wesker is simply superior in everything that matters. Strength, skill, endurance - speed,

 I agree. This is indeed a pretty evenly matched fight for the most part. 
 
However, Wesker is certainly not superior. 

Case in point ^

Chris Redfield weaves through Chain Gun Fire, and Jill has always been displayed as faster than him. The duo pretty much see in slow motion when their blood gets pumping (displayed at several points in RE5) and still can't even begin to keep track of Wesker.

Laser dodging, not as easy as it appears; the enhanced perception displayed by the two agents allows them to analyze each individual laser as it speeds towards them, predict their trajectory, and mentally plan out the best way as to which maneuver their body so as the laser just barely avoids them. Then, to perfectly act out said plan in real time; impossible.

What we see in the Resident Evil cutscenes isn't actually what's happening. We see it through Chris and Jill's filter, their perception. So, according to two of the most skilled agents their planet has to offer, Wesker's speed is inhuman. The man blitzes through bullets without effort, standing on one side of the room and appearing on the opposite instantly without even changing stances. He literally outruns explosions, and not a man alive is capable of countering his strikes. Deathstroke is a bullet timer, but Wesker has already blitzed those.



 
 
Let us begin with speed. Respectively, Wesker needs enhancements to dodge bullets. But Slade? He can dodge bullets at point blank range while de-powered and wounded. 
 This is a true testament to his reflexes and endurance. But with his enhancements, his reflexes are increased tenfold. 
 This is why Slade's reflexes would eat Chris' and Jill's reflexes for breakfast. Sure, Chris and Jill can dodge bullets. But does that put them on Slade's level of reflexes? Absolutely not. I believe these given facts put Slade's reflexes beyond Wesker's reflexes as well. The statement 

Deathstroke is a bullet timer, but Wesker has already blitzed those.


is a very weak one. Flash is a bullet timer too. Does that mean Wesker could blitz Flash too? You and I both know the answer to that one. 
 
Deathstroke's strength level is just about equal to Wesker's. I often see in debates how Albert Wesker has dented steel at 1/3 power. Deathstroke has kicked down steel reinforced doors before. 
 So if Wesker was at full power, I'm guessing he could do the same. 
 
The only thing I'll probably agree with you on is Wesker's skill being superior. However, as Deathstroke implied in his fight with Batman, skill mean nothing when you're not fast enough to use that skill. 
 
Another factor I'd like to bring up is intelligence. Deathstroke is one of the greatest tactical thinkers (arguably the greatest) in the DC Universe. Here is a prime example of that: 
 I would bring up Identity Crisis, but that in that encounter he had prep and hint of PIS with him. But here is a great statement from Identity Crisis that describes Deathstroke's intelligence beautifully: 
 First four boxes

And that's what brings me to my opening strategy. With his unyielding speed, Wesker will immediately open the fight with a barrage of gunfire and other assortment of assault. In the face of one of S.T.A.R.S. best marksman, Deathstroke will be forced to take cover.

Cover? Cover??? That plan is flawed in numerous ways. Firstly, NEVER have I seen Deathstroke take cover. Slade is too badass for cover. 
I'm seriously concerned. If you honestly think Slade is going to cower for cover from a measly PP2000 or a pistol, I don't what I'm going to do. 
 
 No. Slade is going to dodge whatever ammo Wesker has to offer like nothing. And he's going to be the one taking it up close and personal. 
 

Slade may try to return fire, but it will take Wesker no longer than a microsecond to clear the space between them and engage in h2h. (So far, this comes down to who'll be quicker on the draw. Considering Wesker moves his hands at speeds enough to catch an RPG Missile with his bare hands after it's already inches from his face, I'd say he'll start shooting first. Even if Deathstroke does pull the trigger first though, he isn't the marksman to tag Wesker. Meanwhile, the urologist's odds of tagging Slade are likewise arguable, but one thing is for sure - Slade can't take a direct bullet. If he's as smart as he's said to be, he will take cover, and thus...)

Secondly, Slade is a heckuva marksman. He has accuracy feats that rival and are similar to Deadshot's. 
And thirdly, Slade's Promethium body armor most definitely can take direct bullets. 
Takes multiple hits from Deadshot's high-powered gauntlet 
Here's another one. 
Your knowledge in Deathstroke is very lacking my friend.

Cliffs-

:Wesker blitzes through bullets from top tier marksman; Deathstroke's speed is not a match for his

:Wesker, as an experienced gunman, shall draw and fire first. Deathstroke will take cover as any sensible fighter would, giving Albert the opening he needs to cross the distance and engage h2h

:Stats + training ftw

Alternately

Wesker doesn't engage h2h. He keeps it a shootout, dodges all of Slade's bullets, soaking the few he can't, and eventually gets a good hit in. As the superior marksman, Wesker can win in a gunfight much easier than CC. A fist fight is just more interesting.

Deathstroke eats top tier marksman and bullet timers for lunch every Tuesday. 
 
Deathstroke doesn't need cover. He's dodged bullets from a far deadlier arsenal than what Wesker has. 
 
Deathstroke is more experienced than Wesker by a good couple of decades. And I've already gone over stats.
  
 
 
Let me tell you about Deathstroke's strategy. Slade will charge at Wesker, dodging all the bullets Wesker has to give, and Wesker vice versa according to your strategy. By the time Wesker has to reload, I'd imagine he has the intellect to realize that bullets just won't do the job, and both will go into a H2H combat mode. 
 
From there, Slade will use his superior reflexes to counter Wesker's moves, and furthermore evaluate his style so it becomes more predictable. When he strikes, he'll notice that Wesker also has superhuman durability. While I'm sure Deathstroke's superhuman strength could put him down after a while, Slade will act accordingly by incapacitating, and then a point blank range shot with his power staff. His power staff is a very powerful weapon and should be capable of putting Wesker down. 
 

    
If this isn't enough to put down Wesker, he'll surely feel have a hugeass stomach ache, and severely weakened. This makes the job easier for Deathstroke to put him down with H2H combat, or even a couple more blasts from his power staff.
#5 Posted by nickzambuto (13057 posts) - - Show Bio

Wesker needs enhancements to dodge bullets. But Slade? He can dodge bullets at point blank range while de-powered and wounded.

To be fair, Wesker's depowered appearances are few and far between. He has a perfect excuse for being short on feats - only thing is, he's actually not.

To scale of feats to appearances, human Wesker is just as elite as human Deathstroke. Chris Redfield is skilled enough to give Slade a run for his money, but Wesker effortlessly stomps him.

While Billy and Rebecca were running for their lives, Wesker singlehandedly cleared out the entire training facility of all monsters and BOWs before finally finishing off the ProtoTyrant with limited ammo. Said Tyrant being a hulking 30 tonner who moves and strikes at bullet speeds.

Killing something like that with no enhancements is tougher than you might think; Ada Wong was terrified of Umbrella sending a Tyrant after her, and would of much prefered if they simply sent out a team of elite Spec Ops. Who is Ada Wong I hear you ask?

Only the most highly sought after international super spy her planet has to offer. Again, scared of Tyrants and eventually "killed" by one. Meanwhile, Albert Wesker treated the T-001 with nothing but contempt and thought of it as merely an annoyance.

Comparatively, those dudes Deathstroke took on weren't even trying to kill him. And they were equipped with stun gun-thingys, much easier to dodge than real guns.

My point in all this? Albert Wesker is the single most highly skilled combatant in all of Resident Evil. Many would claim Deathstroke has a large edge in technique, but I would disagree. Quality over quantity, and two-shotting Chris Redfield is about as qualitative as you can get.

Wesker never dodged bullets before his powers, but he did make the ProtoTyrant look like a fool, who was quick enough to literally smack missiles out of the air, and an inferior model caught a Licker by the head from behind (a generic Licker is a bullet timer). So I would most definitely say depowered Wesker>depowered Deathstroke.

The only thing I'll probably agree with you on is Wesker's skill being superior.

Wait what?

Oh.

Cool.

The statement
Deathstroke is a bullet timer, but Wesker has already blitzed those.
is a very weak one. Flash is a bullet timer too. Does that mean Wesker could blitz Flash too? You and I both know the answer to that one.

I was just saying, Wesker quite literally moves at speeds exceeding that of high powered automatic weapons. Plenty instances of Deathstroke dodging bullets, but my point was Wesker blitzes people who do that, so he'll need a lot more to go on if we were to say speed is equal.

Another factor I'd like to bring up is intelligence. Deathstroke is one of the greatest tactical thinkers (arguably the greatest) in the DC Universe.

Exact same thing holds true for Albert Wesker.

Deathstroke is a prep master obviously, and an incredibly tactical fighter, but I'm gonna go out on a wing and say Wesker can match him.

The man singlehandedly masterminded the entire Mansion Incident down to the tiniest of details, going so far as to predict Brad Vicker's immediate reaction to seeing the Cerberous Dogs. When complications arose, Wesker didn't panic. He simply manipulated Barry Burton into doing his bidding right there on the spot.

Umbrella rules the world, to be blunt. Their influence reaches far higher than just the White House, but all on his lonesome Wesker brought the whole company down.

In a matter of months he built up his own private mercenary company which he used to erase Rockfort Island, all while maintaining his cover of being deceased.

Wesker is the manipulator of manipulators. He has everyone in his pocket.

Why bother fighting through an army yourself when it's far easier to manipulate the government into sending in an elite hit squad to do it for you?

Oh, what's that? Hit squad got slaughtered? Send in Chris and Jill, they got it covered.

All the while Wesker covertly makes his way through the facility and steals all the BOW combat data Umbrella had, before proceeding to wipe their mainframe just for lulz.

Moving on to strength. The problem with Wesker is, not once do we ever see his full potential. Everything is done with the upmost of casualness, for instance, 1:00 in the above video.

Kicking a steel door off it's hinges is nothing to him. He's already punched holes through them. Perhaps speed is arguable, but strength is something Wesker has firmly in his pocket. The power to turn human beings into mush; Slade isn't much stronger than Batman, humans like Nightwing can trade blows with him and end up ok. But Wesker would do more than just one shot Dick.

Cover? Cover??? That plan is flawed in numerous ways. Firstly, NEVER have I seen Deathstroke take cover. Slade is too badass for cover.
I'm seriously concerned. If you honestly think Slade is going to cower for cover from a measly PP2000 or a pistol, I don't what I'm going to do.

Deathstroke has been tagged by marksman less than Wesker. Whether or not he takes cover makes no difference to my plan. I was just using that as a way to transition from shooting to fist fighting. But if we're on the topic of marksmanship, Wesker is probably a better shot. A single Licker literally weaves through waves of Machine Gun fire, but Wesker took on hordes of them with just a pistol. Shooting without looking is impractical, I don't think Deathstroke has the gun feats to match Wesker. Not to mention those statues Slade shot were stationary, whereas Sheva had to actively dodge Wesker's bullets, despite him being totally focused on Chris.

Not to mention he was being shot at himself during all this!

Slade's Promethium body armor most definitely can take direct bullets.

The bullets won't pierce but he still feels the impact.

Your knowledge in Deathstroke is very lacking my friend.

Maybe.

Slade will use his superior reflexes

Superior reflexes? I beg to differ! Wesker's one weakness minus an overdose is darkness, he can't see more than a few feet in front of him. So to actually catch a missile with his bare hands after it's already inches from his face, a lot tougher than jumping through a fan!

If this isn't enough to put down Wesker, he'll surely feel have a hugeass stomach ache, and severely weakened.

The Power Staff isn't much more than an RPG, and we all know how Wesker deals with those.

In any case, getting off a shot with that thing after already engaging in h2h will be pretty complicated. Wesker's not just gonna let him pull it out and shoot. Who's to say he won't just grab that staff and bully it away from Slade using his superior strength?

#6 Edited by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto said:

@Fetts

Wesker needs enhancements to dodge bullets. But Slade? He can dodge bullets at point blank range while de-powered and wounded.

To be fair, Wesker's depowered appearances are few and far between. He has a perfect excuse for being short on feats - only thing is, he's actually not.

To scale of feats to appearances, human Wesker is just as elite as human Deathstroke. Chris Redfield is skilled enough to give Slade a run for his money, but Wesker effortlessly stomps him.


Redfield giving Slade a run for his money? That's a very bold statement my friend. One that really does need proving. However, I'd rather not get off-topic. Perhaps another time. Though I will add (again) that skill mean absolutely nothing when you're opponent is so fast he's not giving you a chance to utilize that skill. Deathstroke vs Batman is a perfect example of that.
 
 

While Billy and Rebecca were running for their lives, Wesker singlehandedly cleared out the entire training facility of all monsters and BOWs before finally finishing off the ProtoTyrant with limited ammo. Said Tyrant being a hulking 30 tonner who moves and strikes at bullet speeds.


"Monsters" is a tad general. So I'm not going to even reply to that. But BOWs? Aren't those pretty much Killer Crocs? Only with less intelligence? I could see Slade replicating that same feat to be honest. 
 

Killing something like that with no enhancements is tougher than you might think; Ada Wong was terrified of Umbrella sending a Tyrant after her, and would of much prefered if they simply sent out a team of elite Spec Ops. Who is Ada Wong I hear you ask?

Only the most highly sought after international super spy her planet has to offer. Again, scared of Tyrants and eventually "killed" by one. Meanwhile, Albert Wesker treated the T-001 with nothing but contempt and thought of it as merely an annoyance.


To be frank, I'd only put her on Catwoman's level of martial arts and agility. At least based on that video. So the fact that she'd be scared of multi-tonner, super speedy Tyrants doesn't surprise me. The fact that she's the best agent in the world isn't very much. Jack Bauer is the best agent in the world of 24. Would I expect him to go up against Tyrants? Probably not. Feats would impress me more. Is she a bullet timer? What type of opponents has she beaten? That kinda stuff. 
 

Comparatively, those dudes Deathstroke took on weren't even trying to kill him. And they were equipped with stun gun-thingys, much easier to dodge than real guns.


Dude... They shot at him. I'm pretty sure that means they're trying to kill him. 
 

My point in all this? Albert Wesker is the single most highly skilled combatant in all of Resident Evil. Many would claim Deathstroke has a large edge in technique, but I would disagree. Quality over quantity, and two-shotting Chris Redfield is about as qualitative as you can get.

I'm sorry, but how is two-shotting Redfield impressive? Is he trained in a buttload of martial arts? Does he have superhuman durability? I'm afraid I don't see your point there. 
 

Wesker never dodged bullets before his powers, but he did make the ProtoTyrant look like a fool, who was quick enough to literally smack missiles out of the air, and an inferior model caught a Licker by the head from behind (a generic Licker is a bullet timer). So I would most definitely say depowered Wesker>depowered Deathstroke.

I'm afraid making a ProtoTyrant looking like a fool is a tad general. Spider-Man made Juggernaut look like a fool when he made him walk into cement? Does that mean he'd beat him in a straight up fight? Nope. Details of this encounter would be nice. 
 

The only thing I'll probably agree with you on is Wesker's skill being superior.

Wait what?

Oh.

Cool.

 Well ya. I mean, isn't Wesker trained in a buttload of martial arts? But again. Skill means nothing if you're opponent is faster than you. 
 

Exact same thing holds true for Albert Wesker.

Deathstroke is a prep master obviously, and an incredibly tactical fighter, but I'm gonna go out on a wing and say Wesker can match him.

The man singlehandedly masterminded the entire Mansion Incident down to the tiniest of details, going so far as to predict Brad Vicker's immediate reaction to seeing the Cerberous Dogs. When complications arose, Wesker didn't panic. He simply manipulated Barry Burton into doing his bidding right there on the spot.

Umbrella rules the world, to be blunt. Their influence reaches far higher than just the White House, but all on his lonesome Wesker brought the whole company down.

In a matter of months he built up his own private mercenary company which he used to erase Rockfort Island, all while maintaining his cover of being deceased.

Wesker is the manipulator of manipulators. He has everyone in his pocket.

Why bother fighting through an army yourself when it's far easier to manipulate the government into sending in an elite hit squad to do it for you?

Oh, what's that? Hit squad got slaughtered? Send in Chris and Jill, they got it covered.

All the while Wesker covertly makes his way through the facility and steals all the BOW combat data Umbrella had, before proceeding to wipe their mainframe just for lulz.


Thing is, it's hard to compare Deathstroke's and Wesker's intelligence. Intelligence in manipulation isn't Slade's style. Slade's a soldier. His intelligence falls more within the line of tactical and combat thinking. And it just so happens that that type of intelligence is very applicable to this match. Whereas manipulation isn't. 
 

Moving on to strength. The problem with Wesker is, not once do we ever see his full potential. Everything is done with the upmost of casualness, for instance, 1:00 in the above video.

Kicking a steel door off it's hinges is nothing to him. He's already punched holes through them. Perhaps speed is arguable, but strength is something Wesker has firmly in his pocket. The power to turn human beings into mush; Slade isn't much stronger than Batman, humans like Nightwing can trade blows with him and end up ok. But Wesker would do more than just one shot Dick.


Well, you'll also notice that Slade didn't put much effort into kicking the steel door either. So that's just about equal if you compare the two door-busting feats. Though I will give you that Slade has never been able to karate chop through someone's heart. So Wesker might have a slight edge in strength. Is it an advantage? Sure. But not enough to guarantee him a win. Also, strength is in the same boat as skill. It won't matter how strong you are if you can't hit your target... Unless you can thunderclap. But that is not applicable to Wesker. And while Slade may not be as strong as Wesker, he should be strong enough to affect him.
 

Deathstroke has been tagged by marksman less than Wesker. Whether or not he takes cover makes no difference to my plan. I was just using that as a way to transition from shooting to fist fighting. But if we're on the topic of marksmanship, Wesker is probably a better shot. A single Licker literally weaves through waves of Machine Gun fire, but Wesker took on hordes of them with just a pistol. Shooting without looking is impractical, I don't think Deathstroke has the gun feats to match Wesker. Not to mention those statues Slade shot were stationary, whereas Sheva had to actively dodge Wesker's bullets, despite him being totally focused on Chris.

Not to mention he was being shot at himself during all this!


I know the instance you're talking about. That's one time Slade has been hit by a bullet. The only other times he's been hit by bullets is when he was de-powered, or he was letting them hit him. When he's actually trying, 99% precent of the time, he's dodging bullets. And actually, I want to call CIS or PIS on that instance anyways, as Slade significantly exceeds the rank of bullet timer.
 
 
 Eh. Slade's true level of accuracy is a little sketchy to me. I mean his best feat is the following scan, but I'm not sure if I should consider it PIS. 
 If this isn't PIS. Great. Slade gets the edge in accuracy. Even if it's not, I fail to see how accuracy is going to be of relevance for either contender, as both are bullet timers. 
 
Also, when you say "weave", do you mean run and have bullets fly everywhere around you? Cause that's not exactly dodging bullets. That's more like dodging bad aim. 
 

Slade's Promethium body armor most definitely can take direct bullets.

The bullets won't pierce but he still feels the impact.


  I have the previous scans in this instance.  
 
Slade only felt the impact because he was de-powered in this instance as well (according to KMC Forums). I already showed you two instances where he tanked bullets. In one instance, sure he felt the impact. But that was from a very powerful customized gauntlet. And that didn't even affect him the way it affected Slade in the scan you posted. And to go even further, Wesker doesn't guns as nearly as powerful as Deadshot's gauntlet in this match. Except for the Samurai Edge. Dunno about that one. As for the other instance, he shrugged the bullets off. And even so, Slade is more likely to dodge the bullets than tank them. 
Slade will use his superior reflexes

Superior reflexes? I beg to differ! Wesker's one weakness minus an overdose is darkness, he can't see more than a few feet in front of him. So to actually catch a missile with his bare hands after it's already inches from his face, a lot tougher than jumping through a fan!

I'm afraid you missed the point of the scan. Slade is already a bullet-timer while de-powered. At least, he can dodge single bullets. As shown, he can't dodge multiple bullets while de-powered. But it's still damn impressive. But with the enhancements, his reflexes are tenfold. I posted that scan cause that's where it states that Slade's reflexes are enhanced by a factor of ten. Do you understand how impressive that is? He can dodge a projectile moving at 650 mph (roughly) at point blank range without his enhancements. With his enhancements, he could dodge a projectile about ten times faster than that. That means he could dodge a projectile moving at 6,500 mph. Do I believe that because of this he could tag speedsters like Flash? Of course not. The speed of light is much faster than that. However this means that his reflexes outrank the status of "bullet-timer" by a significant margin. 
 
Also, if Wesker can see a few feet in front of him in darkness, and an RPG is inches away, then how in the heck is he handicapped in anyway at all? 
 

The Power Staff isn't much more than an RPG, and we all know how Wesker deals with those.

In any case, getting off a shot with that thing after already engaging in h2h will be pretty complicated. Wesker's not just gonna let him pull it out and shoot. Who's to say he won't just grab that staff and bully it away from Slade using his superior strength?

Well I don't about that. I'd say it's more powerful than that. Especially if you're referring to the RPG in that boss battle. And that RPG is powerful enough to stun Wesker long enough for Chris to inject him with Uruburos. So if a smalltime RPG is enough to affect Wesker that much, than ya I'm confident the power staff will do the job quite nicely. 
 
That's why I said that Slade would incapacitate Wesker before using it. He could use Wesker's own momentum against himself, put him in a hold temporarily, lands a couple of properly placed blows to some joints, or maybe even use his guns at close range. Whatever does the job.
#7 Posted by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sherlock: FTR, I was kidding... 
 
@nickzambuto: Bump?
#8 Posted by jobbernos (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

deathstroke headshots weskers head off.

#9 Posted by jashro44 (19932 posts) - - Show Bio

@jobbernos said:

deathstroke headshots weskers head off.

Wait until there done...This is suppose to be based off who put up the better argument and not on who you think wins.

Online
#10 Posted by Sherlock (7246 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fetts: No you weren't LOL 
 
Nick needs to get back here sooner rather than later.This is one of my al time favorite fights (One which iv done several times)
#11 Posted by Bossmonster (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this debate still on. And great job on both you guys part so far.

#12 Posted by laflux (14382 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@jobbernos said:

deathstroke headshots weskers head off.

Wait until there done...This is suppose to be based off who put up the better argument and not on who you think wins.

this is fantastic.

#13 Posted by nickzambuto (13057 posts) - - Show Bio

I know I said I'd get to it today, but I was just REALLY busy with Christmas. I'm sorry again, I have absolutely nothing planned tomorrow so that's a sure bet. We were supposed to visit some relatives for Christmas, but my wonderful mother locked the keys in the car last night. So, me, being the intuitive young lad I am, whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror if anything I could say that this cab was rare but I though, "Nah, forget it. Yo home to Bel-Air!" I pulled up to the house at about 7 or 8 and I yelled to the cabby yo holmes smell ya later Looked at my kingdom I was finally their to sit on my thrown as the prince of Bel-Air.

#14 Posted by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: Lol. Tis OK. I get it. Your asskicking is now rescheduled for tomorrow :)
#15 Edited by nickzambuto (13057 posts) - - Show Bio
I'm sorry, but how is two-shotting Redfield impressive?

Based on him dominating large groups of J'avo bare handed and stalemating Leon Kennedy, yeah, it's very impressive.

"Monsters" is a tad general. So I'm not going to even reply to that. But BOWs? Aren't those pretty much Killer Crocs? Only with less intelligence? I could see Slade replicating that same feat to be honest.

BOW=Bio Organic Weapon, you're thinking of Hunters, which the training facility was hardly limited to.

And I think singlehandedly clearing out an entire mansion's worth of killer monsters is a tad harder than you give it credit for.

I'm pretty sure that when it comes to depowered feats, Wesker grossly outclasses Slade taking on a few guards who weren't even trying to kill him (the scans you posted directly state that). They were using stun guns, not real guns. Deathstroke dodging a single one of those attacks does not make him a bullet timer.

To be frank, I'd only put her on Catwoman's level of martial arts and agility. At least based on that video. So the fact that she'd be scared of multi-tonner, super speedy Tyrants doesn't surprise me. The fact that she's the best agent in the world isn't very much. Jack Bauer is the best agent in the world of 24. Would I expect him to go up against Tyrants? Probably not. Feats would impress me more. Is she a bullet timer? What type of opponents has she beaten? That kinda stuff.
I'm afraid making a ProtoTyrant looking like a fool is a tad general. Spider-Man made Juggernaut look like a fool when he made him walk into cement? Does that mean he'd beat him in a straight up fight? Nope. Details of this encounter would be nice.

He shot it in the face until it died.

Well ya. I mean, isn't Wesker trained in a buttload of martial arts?

No. He's had a buttload of training, but it's never stated exactly how many styles he knows. Most of his skill is natural anyway, case in point: Jake Muller

6:20

Jake Muller, contrary to popular belief, does not posess his father's abilities. He was in fact, concieved a good decade prior to Wesker gaining his powers. The secret to his unmatched combat prowess and fighting skill, is nothing other than his bloodline.

The reason Spencer chose Wesker, and the reason Wesker survived injecting the virus into himself, was because of his unique bloodtype. Jake inherited this blood, which is why he is a super soldier despite never recieving a day of training in his life.

So we have Jake defeating a hulking 30 tonner+ in h2h combat through sheer skill; I wonder how good Wesker is in that case...

Thing is, it's hard to Deathstroke's and Wesker's intelligence. Intelligence in manipulation isn't Slade's style. Slade's a soldier. His intelligence falls more within the line of tacti compare cal and combat thinking. And it just so happens that that type of intelligence is very applicable to this match. Whereas manipulation isn't.

Manipulation is just an extension of Wesker's strategic ability. He's a highly tactical fighter as well, as displayed in numerous fights (vs Lisa Trevor, vs Sergei Vladmir,)

So Wesker might have a slight edge in strength. Is it an advantage? Sure. But not enough to guarantee him a win. Also, strength is in the same boat as skill. It won't matter how strong you are if you can't hit your target...

By that, speed means nothing if you're not strong enough to do any damage. Do Deathstroke's strikes pack more explosive power than an RPG Missile? Because those barely stun Wesker. Is Slade a 20 tonner? Because Wesker walked off a dozen steel beams falling on his head from several stories up.

1:40 a steel pipe literally bends around Wesker's arm. He's taken no damage from falling hundreds of feet onto rocky mountains, and bullets are like bee stings. Coupled with his advanced regen which heals damage as it's delt out, Slade will find actually keeping his opponent down increasingly more difficult.

Also, when you say "weave", do you mean run and have bullets fly everywhere around you? Cause that's not exactly dodging bullets. That's more like dodging bad aim.

No. I mean like, literally weaving left and right to avoid every individual bullet.

Also, if Wesker can see a few feet in front of him in darkness, and an RPG is inches away, then how in the heck is he handicapped in anyway at all?

Because he had less time to react? He could only see the missile after it's right next to him; Batman can dodge bullets but if he was forced to wait until one was two feet away before moving he'd find it considerably more difficult.

And that RPG is powerful enough to stun Wesker long enough for Chris to inject him with Uruburos.

...OK anyway, this debate seems to come down to speed. Your argument thus far has been, though Wesker is stronger and more skilled, neither advantage will be of use if he can't actually catch Deathstroke.

Alright, fair enough, though there is one fatal flaw in your plan! That being... Wesker is faster.

Yeah, I went there. Suck it.

It's not out of the question for Slade to be faster, but I'll need more feats in that department. Wesker nearly teleporting is one thing, but like I said, that's from a bullet timer's perspective.

#16 Posted by nickzambuto (13057 posts) - - Show Bio

There's your damn rebuttle.

#17 Posted by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: Ok cool. I'm going to be visiting family for like a week, so it might be a little while until I can respond.
#18 Posted by lolcattz (74 posts) - - Show Bio

Vote for Wesker! Wesker 2016!

#19 Posted by nickzambuto (13057 posts) - - Show Bio

@lolcattz said:

Vote for Wesker! Wesker 2016!

In Umbrella we trust!

#20 Posted by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: Ok. Brace yourself. I'm back. 
  
@nickzambuto said:
I'm sorry, but how is two-shotting Redfield impressive?

Based on him dominating large groups of J'avo bare handed and stalemating Leon Kennedy, yeah, it's very impressive.

Ok. Just asking. 
 

"Monsters" is a tad general. So I'm not going to even reply to that. But BOWs? Aren't those pretty much Killer Crocs? Only with less intelligence? I could see Slade replicating that same feat to be honest.

BOW=Bio Organic Weapon, you're thinking of Hunters, which the training facility was hardly limited to.

And I think singlehandedly clearing out an entire mansion's worth of killer monsters is a tad harder than you give it credit for.

I'm pretty sure that when it comes to depowered feats, Wesker grossly outclasses Slade taking on a few guards who weren't even trying to kill him (the scans you posted directly state that). They were using stun guns, not real guns. Deathstroke dodging a single one of those attacks does not make him a bullet timer.

 Ah. My mistake. 
 
Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. If it's anything like the first video you posted of Ada Wong, then I wouldn't be impressed. All you proved there was that she could aim and shoot while wounded. As if a de-powered Deathstroke couldn't do that... Oh wait, he can.
 And stun guns??? Are you serious bro? Do you even know what stun guns are?
 
 
These are stun guns. They incapacitate people via electrical discharge. There are no electrical discharges in those scans. When he said "It was meant to knock me out, not to kill me," I believe he was referring to where they were aiming rather than the blast itself. I'm confident that those were legit guns firing actual bullets. 
Firstly, I doubt Slade would scream that he's a killing machine while incapacitating people. Secondly, I think you can tell that they're getting killed. Look at the black dude. He got his eye shot out. And look at the schmuck to his right. You can see projectiles going exiting through his backside. Thirdly, I'm pretty sure they're wearing armor. Judging from the way they're dressed. But armor or no, electrical discharges don't exit through people's backsides. 

 

To be frank, I'd only put her on Catwoman's level of martial arts and agility. At least based on that video. So the fact that she'd be scared of multi-tonner, super speedy Tyrants doesn't surprise me. The fact that she's the best agent in the world isn't very much. Jack Bauer is the best agent in the world of 24. Would I expect him to go up against Tyrants? Probably not. Feats would impress me more. Is she a bullet timer? What type of opponents has she beaten? That kinda stuff.

Some of these videos impressed me. Some didn't. But none of these convinced me that she shouldn't be afraid of a supposedly 30 tonner, bullet-fast monster (which you still have to prove btw). 

I'm afraid making a ProtoTyrant looking like a fool is a tad general. Spider-Man made Juggernaut look like a fool when he made him walk into cement? Does that mean he'd beat him in a straight up fight? Nope. Details of this encounter would be nice.

He shot it in the face until it died.


That's it? This is supposed to impress me? All he did was shoot, vault, shoot, duck under the railing, shoot, etc. So what? There were no showings of extreme acrobatics, intelligence, fighting skill, accuracy, or anything that would impress me. I don't care if Ada Wong is scared of them. She'd handle this dude with a lot more ease than de-powered Wesker did. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say de-powered Slade could replicate this feat. Even own him more easily than Wesker did. In my de-powered Deathstroke feats, we saw an excellent example of his endurance, reflexes, and combat skill. And the guy was wounded! Here, I saw nothing a simple marine with an actual brain could do. It doesn't take a lot of skill or special abilities to shoot, dodge a berserker charge that isn't particularly fast via vaulting or ducking under the railing. 
 
Well ya. I mean, isn't Wesker trained in a buttload of martial arts?

No. He's had a buttload of training, but it's never stated exactly how many styles he knows. Most of his skill is natural anyway, case in point: Jake Muller

6:20

Jake Muller, contrary to popular belief, does not posess his father's abilities. He was in fact, concieved a good decade prior to Wesker gaining his powers. The secret to his unmatched combat prowess and fighting skill, is nothing other than his bloodline.

The reason Spencer chose Wesker, and the reason Wesker survived injecting the virus into himself, was because of his unique bloodtype. Jake inherited this blood, which is why he is a super soldier despite never recieving a day of training in his life.

So we have Jake defeating a hulking 30 tonner+ in h2h combat through sheer skill; I wonder how good Wesker is in that case...


Ah. Well in that case I might take the skill part back, as I had a wrong impression towards Wesker. 
 
A 30 tonner??? That's amusing. I'm beginning to think you're making crap up Nick. If Jake was a 30 tonner, the metal grate bridge would of fell beneath both their feat when he smashed it. If Jake was a 30 tonner, he would of sent a roughly 150 lb. Albert Wesker through the grate and through the very bottom of the lava pit. He would have been like a pebble to Hulk Hogan. If Jake was a 30 tonner, he would have crushed Wesker's head like a potato chip when he grabbed his head. Think about what you're saying. 30 tons = 60,000 lbs. And Albert Wesker is about 150 lbs. I'm guessing. Think about it. 
 
 Let me show you a couple showings of Slade's skill. While he may not be extremely skilled in martial arts, the combination of combat intelligence and physical attributes puts his skill at a very high level. True, these are showings of when he's powered up, but let me remind you Slade isn't as abundant as Wesker is in de-powered showings.
 
  Slade will show you how to do the Captain America!
 To me, this is his most impressive combat intelligence feat (that lacks PIS the most that is). At first, it's 5-1. And Slade still makes experienced Teen Titans look like fools. Making Rose Wilson hit Cassandra and throwing Joseph into Nightwing is almost comical. Remember these are some of the greatest street levelers DC has to offer. You have Nightwing: the greatest acrobat of the DC Universe. Cassandra Cain: one of the greatest, if not the greatest martial artists in the DC Universe. She also has unique ability to read body language to predict moves. Rose Wilson: daughter with a bite and precognition abilities. I believe all of these heroes are bullet timers.Slade kicked the crap out of five bullet-timers, before they got a buttload of help. Wanna know how many bullet-timers it takes to beat Wesker? Just two. With help of Uruburos I'll grant you but still. And before you say it, I know that Slade was pushing with their emotions. But you'll notice that he really only did that for two people: Rose and Joseph Wilson. Those two were trained by Slade and knows how he fights. They're the only real potential danger out of the five. And I think my theory is confirmed when he didn't use the same technique when backup arrived.
 
Speaking of which, Slade kicked the crap out of the backup too! Though I will admit that there may be questionable PIS. Firstly, Slade's best bet was the element of surprise. A direct attack probably would have been futile when fighting people like Flash. So that's why he didn't fight at all. He just stood there with his head bowed down. Cause he knew that heroes wouldn't kick the crap out of him if he didn't fight back. But he did count on Cassandra's emotions getting the better of her, and thus a distraction was made. Slade couldn't take all of them with his arsenal. But why use his own when he kick the crap out of everybody with somebody else's? And that's what he did. He stuck his sword in Cyborg's arm and watched the magic. Though this is where I feel like PIS might have been involved. Somehow, I feel that shouldn't have worked on people like Flash. However, the distraction might account for that, so I can't be too sure.
 
 This is by far not his most impressive skill showing, but this is a skill/agility feat while he's de-powered. I find this agility to be superior than mere vaults and ducks don't you? 

Thing is, it's hard to Deathstroke's and Wesker's intelligence. Intelligence in manipulation isn't Slade's style. Slade's a soldier. His intelligence falls more within the line of tacti compare cal and combat thinking. And it just so happens that that type of intelligence is very applicable to this match. Whereas manipulation isn't.

Manipulation is just an extension of Wesker's strategic ability. He's a highly tactical fighter as well, as displayed in numerous fights (vs Lisa Trevor, vs Sergei Vladmir,)


May I see this strategic ability? Cause I doubt it's as impressive as Slade's level of strategic ability. Strategic ability that allows you to own multiple bullet-timers and superhumans is easily more superior than owning one bullet-timer or superhuman.
 
So Wesker might have a slight edge in strength. Is it an advantage? Sure. But not enough to guarantee him a win. Also, strength is in the same boat as skill. It won't matter how strong you are if you can't hit your target...

By that, speed means nothing if you're not strong enough to do any damage. Do Deathstroke's strikes pack more explosive power than an RPG Missile? Because those barely stun Wesker. Is Slade a 20 tonner? Because Wesker walked off a dozen steel beams falling on his head from several stories up.

1:40 a steel pipe literally bends around Wesker's arm. He's taken no damage from falling hundreds of feet onto rocky mountains, and bullets are like bee stings. Coupled with his advanced regen which heals damage as it's delt out, Slade will find actually keeping his opponent down increasingly more difficult.



Maybe not. But I can tell you that he has a kick that Lex Luthor can certainly feel through his force field. 
 
And I doubt Slade needs to be a 20 tonner to effect Wesker, as it isn't the first time you've exaggerated. I mean seriously, Chris Redfield tried to tackle him and he was pushed back a little.  
  
  0:33 
And I wouldn't say it "barely stunned" Wesker either. If it barely stunned him, Sheva and Chris wouldn't have been able to get their ands on him. 
 
A pipe? It's not bad but not all that impressive either. Taking no damage from a 100 ft. fall? I don't think so bro. I've seen that cutscene and you never see what happens. For all you know he could of caught on to the cliff, landed in water, landed on solid ground but almost died, whatever. Do I need to remind you Jill Valentine survived that fall as well? Are you going to tell me that she has superhuman durability as well? Cause I sincerely doubt she would of survived that fall with no superhuman durability. Due to that, I think it's safe to assume something happened. And it wasn't landing 100 ft. below unscratched. And Slade's armor grants him bullet to be bullet proof as well.
 
Slade's durability is actually superior to Wesker's by far. Two RPG missiles killed him. 
  
While it was a pretty explosion, Slade has survived far worse. 
    
 Here he survives a bombing that obliterates what looks like to be the U.S. Capitol building, and oddly enough made him younger as well. I don't know about you, but I find having an enormous bomb blowing up in your face and furthermore having the U.S. Capitol building fall on top of you is far more impressive than any durability feat you mentioned right there. If anything, Wesker is going to need more punches on Slade than Slade needs on him. Nevermind that Wesker actually has to be fast enough to land the punches. 
 

Also, when you say "weave", do you mean run and have bullets fly everywhere around you? Cause that's not exactly dodging bullets. That's more like dodging bad aim.

No. I mean like, literally weaving left and right to avoid every individual bullet.

Also, if Wesker can see a few feet in front of him in darkness, and an RPG is inches away, then how in the heck is he handicapped in anyway at all?

Because he had less time to react? He could only see the missile after it's right next to him; Batman can dodge bullets but if he was forced to wait until one was two feet away before moving he'd find it considerably more difficult.

And that RPG is powerful enough to stun Wesker long enough for Chris to inject him with Uruburos.

...OK anyway, this debate seems to come down to speed. Your argument thus far has been, though Wesker is stronger and more skilled, neither advantage will be of use if he can't actually catch Deathstroke.

Alright, fair enough, though there is one fatal flaw in your plan! That being... Wesker is faster.

Yeah, I went there. Suck it.

It's not out of the question for Slade to be faster, but I'll need more feats in that department. Wesker nearly teleporting is one thing, but like I said, that's from a bullet timer's perspective.

Interesting. Still not on Slade's level. 
Greatest Bullet Dodging Feat Of All Time
Here he dodges bullets near point blank range and fired from 10 or more barrels.  
 
As I said, Wesker has beaten 2 bullet timers at the same time. Slade has owned up to 5 bullet timers at once. 
 
Ah. I thought you were saying that it was fired inches away from his face, and that the darkness handicapped him which just wouldn't make any sense if he could see it coming. 
 
What do you mean "?". Did he not inject him with Uruburos to weaken him after the RPG exploded in his face? 
 
Stronger? By a little. More skilled? That actually remains to be seen. But Slade has faster reflexes, is more durable, has a better arsenal, and is more intelligent. 
 
I've already explained why Slade is faster. He is 10x faster than the typical bullet-timer, and can face up to 5 bullet timers at the same time. 
 I'm not saying that Slade really has what it takes to tag Flash. But read the sixth box and replace "Wally" with "Wesker". That just about describes it perfectly.
#21 Posted by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: You do realize I've made my rebuttal right?
#22 Posted by nickzambuto (13057 posts) - - Show Bio

Forget it I quit :P

@otherpeople

I dunno.

#23 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Slight win for

It was the last rebutal.

#24 Posted by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: As you should :)
#25 Posted by Floopay (8644 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fetts: for this one, Deathstroke is a walking PIS machine.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#26 Posted by Fetts (4422 posts) - - Show Bio
@Floopay: I don't think I used too many PIS feats. His encounter with the Teen Titans might have had some slight PIS in it. But I admitted that. And then there was the Deathstroke vs Flash scan, which is extreme PIS I will admit. But I didn't really even use that to back up my argument. Other than that, I'd say I did pretty good.
#27 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to give this one to Fetts as well.

#28 Posted by dondave (34756 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to give it to @Fetts:

#29 Posted by Erick_Williams (754 posts) - - Show Bio

Wesker is a jobber. everybody knows it
Fetts FTW

#31 Posted by dondave (34756 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by Erick_Williams (754 posts) - - Show Bio