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#51 Posted by pooty (10863 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: did you want to debate someone or just passing through?

#52 Edited by xlab3000 (3157 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: just passing through for now

#53 Posted by Marshall_Long (1872 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: Didn't even know the God form could absorb attacks.

#54 Edited by xlab3000 (3157 posts) - - Show Bio
#55 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: In short? Goku has superhuman feats with just base martial arts skill. One-shotting a dinosaur, demolishing a boulder with a single punch of his bare hands, moving faster then the human eye can see, creating after images as part of a special attack, and withstanding blows that shatter stone and bricks without any serious damage.

It's because of his Saiyan physiology, and Ki. Im talking, a hand-to-hand fight where Goku has been depowered to match Bruce's peak human stats. Goku has no Ki, Bruce has no gear. Pure hand to hand fighting. Pure skill.

#56 Edited by NeonGameWave (7712 posts) - - Show Bio
@cadencev2 said:

@neongamewave: I want my Roshi vs Genkai fix. Lets debate it.

This sounds like an awesome idea, I wouldn`t mind debating for Roshi but I think Genkai would have more of the advantages although Roshi has the greater destructive power and has the greater speed, however Genkai is a more focused individual when it comes to fighting and she`s more agile, it can probably go either way.

#57 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: Good we will make it happen. Make the Thread. or should I?

#58 Edited by NeonGameWave (7712 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Its up to you, you can make the thread if you want.

#59 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#60 Posted by DangerousLoki (715 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangerousloki said:

@calebhara: In short? Goku has superhuman feats with just base martial arts skill. One-shotting a dinosaur, demolishing a boulder with a single punch of his bare hands, moving faster then the human eye can see, creating after images as part of a special attack, and withstanding blows that shatter stone and bricks without any serious damage.

It's because of his Saiyan physiology, and Ki. Im talking, a hand-to-hand fight where Goku has been depowered to match Bruce's peak human stats. Goku has no Ki, Bruce has no gear. Pure hand to hand fighting. Pure skill.

That's actually not true. Saiyan physiology isn't any different then human. Or at least theres never been a difference in physiology displayed. This is why I only used feats that characters who are completly human, such as Krillin and Roshi, can reproduce illustrating that it's not unique to Saiyan. Chichi for example is a completly human character who has no history or really utilizing ki but can still lift a car easily over her head. For instance. The moving faster then human eye can see, there's no indication that this requires ki. When Goku is taught this. Ki is never mentioned. It is a fighting technique that he is taught. There's no indication of whether it needs Ki or not to acheive. Sort of like the after image technique. It is again a question of a special technique where the question of Ki is not addressed. What is known is that he acheives this by moving incredibly fast and thus would not be able to achieve it and pure Batman level. The only way the fight is fair is to give Goku his bare minimum levels (Kid Goku) and allow Batman to have his standard gear. Otherwise we have a squash match. Either in Batman's favor or Goku's because we'll have a Goku who has no feats or a Goku whose feats put him beyond Batman's level. It's why I prefaced this by saying Karate Kid or Iron Fist would be better suited to take on Goku. As pretty much every feat Goku has ever had is beyond peak human which is purely a result of his level of skill as a fighter in Dragonball.

#61 Edited by SonDeathEater (428 posts) - - Show Bio

After Super Saiyan 3 Goku busting a hole through King Kai's planet,My opinion is that Goku can actually easily beat Superman at Supersaiyan Form.Just bc if you get rid of Saiyan multipliers from the lowest density from King Kai's planet,which is 10x denser than Earth at the least unless you go further,Goku doing the same punch at SuperSaiyan would be 5/4x the density of Earth which is higher than any feat Superman has been seen doing.Hell,we didn't even see Superman bust a planet like Earth.We've seen him struggle to bust a moon using his strongest attack.If that was his strongest attack,how can he pull off Earth Shattering punches using his normal methods of attacking.Even if we gave superman benefit of the doubt,he still couldn't harm Goku since he's been tanking ki blasts,punches,and kicks harder than that.

#62 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangerousloki: Fair enough, i understand why it is one-sided either way you set this up. I have only one solution to this problem, if you still want to go through with the debate. We do not debate an actual fight between the two characters, we simply debate their skill. That way, Bruce's feats, and Goku's feats can be used. (If not, i can actually debate for Iron Fist, even Karate Kid, if you would still want to)

And yes, it is mainly because of his Saiyan physiology that he is able to accomplish the superhuman feats that we see in DBZ. The human characters have all trained in similar way to Goku, granting them superhuman abilities as a result of rigorous training, but, the fact still stands that there is not a single Human in DBZ that is anywhere near the power of the Saiyans. Same training, different results, due to the fact that Saiyans are born superior to humans.

#63 Edited by DangerousLoki (715 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: In fairness. That's only when we get into DBZ. IN the original Dragonball. Kid Goku is actually even to the human characters. His only difference in physiology is his ability to become a giant ape. There's never anything shown that puts him above any of the human characters by any stretch. He's not portrayed as having any significant advantages in physicality over humans. The reason he's at such a level at eight years old is because he's been trained in martial arts by his grandfather since he could walk. Essentially. Goku has been a master martial artist since the age of three. He is also a natural fighter with an almost instinctual understanding of combat, that is later explained as being part of his saiyan heritage. And a fight of skill could be done where we just analyzed who was more skilled over all. But I'd think it would be a tie in that regard. XD I think we've already finished our debate. It really seems we agree on most of the points already.

#64 Posted by Raw_Material (3212 posts) - - Show Bio

< Comics

I'll take them on with either Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Aquaman, Deathstroke, or Green Arrow easily :D

#65 Edited by jashro44 (19933 posts) - - Show Bio

< Comics

I'll take them on with either Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Aquaman, Deathstroke, or Green Arrow easily :D

@nickzambuto

#66 Edited by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Okay I can give significant reasons as to why he surpasses the speed of light. I cannot provide scans unfortunately for solid proof of the following statements, but these are true:

  1. When Piccolo and Goku fought Raditz, Raditz' power level was no bigger than 1,200. When Piccolo tried blasting him with the Special-Beam cannon, Raditz dodged and Piccolo shouted that "He is faster than the speed of light", meaning that Piccolo's energy blast exceeded the speed of light and his power level was slightly below 400. Why would Piccolo bluff by saying this? He is an intelligent fighter especially when threatened by someone with a power level over x3 times bigger than his own, so it wouldn't make sense for this statement to be false.
  2. Goku was training with Mr. Popo and he stated that Goku was faster than "lightning" (I can't quote exactly what he said because as I stated before, it doesn't work for me, let's hope someone else might) now lightning is about half of the speed of light, now imagine Goku in SSJ3 Adult, he has to be faster by a great margin.
  3. When Vegeta fired his Final Flash on Cell, he dared Cell not to dodge it. When it was fired Cell noticed it's potential and dodged it quickly, The blast travelled out of the solar system and hit a star. The time that it took in total was around 20 seconds, and stars are light-years of distance away, so if he could hit a star within 20 seconds, the blast had to be much faster than speed of light.
  4. Kami stated that he couldn't even see Goku and Piccolo fighting and Kami's eyes are godly fast (as he stated himself) reminder this is still in Dragon-Ball.
  5. When Vegeta and Nappa invaded Earth and fought Gohan, Piccolo and the other fighters, Nappa planted the Saibamen and Yamcha started to battle one of them, notice how fast they were moving, they were impossible to see for human eyes, and Yamcha is one of the weakest DBZ characters.
  6. Instant transmission, "INSTANT transmission". Instant is faster than everything.
  7. Do you even see how fast DBZ characters punch? It's much faster than even Hal or even Superman has shown to punch, (I know Superman is faster than the speed of light in terms of travelling, but he hasn't shown to be as fast as DBZ characters are show to fight in the comics or the cartoons), but let's not get into alternate form of "Goku VS Superman".

Most of these statements are taken from Dragon Ball or early DBZ, so if you compare Goku's speed from then to when he went SSJ3, he is easily faster than light. His power level when he was fighting Piccolo was only from 200-320, Goku's power level in SSJ3 is over 1,000,000,000. He should be over 1000 times the speed of light at this stage if going realistically, but you won't even admit that he is the speed of light.

Hal cannot hope to challenge these levels of speed, even if he is "hyper-sonic", Goku is still much faster and definitely a much faster fighter, and can always be faster while using Instant-Transmission. I think that if Goku can learn to move instantly, he easily surpasses the speed of light by a significant margin.

Think about this aswell, In nearly all fighting anime/manga's, the characters speed is one of their best abilities in fighting, this is one of the number of reasons why they are argued to be much faster than most comic-book heroes/villains.

Even if I was wrong about Hal not being able to take punches off Goku, or not able to handle his energy projection, Goku can end the fight in a very short amount of time in a number of different ways (E.g: BFR or Blitzing), If Goku was without morals AND in SSJ3 it would be massive overkill, I apologize if you feel like i'm not being fair to Hal or underestimating him, but I know he cannot beat Goku, nor tag him or even keep up with him.

#67 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23406 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: I would debunk this but only if we do Hal Jordan vs Goku thread,other wise it is pointless.

#68 Posted by GhostRider2 (3275 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is Batman here?Even Bulma beats him lol

#69 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Old DB Oozaru vs Toriko

#70 Posted by pooty (10863 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#71 Edited by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Atom vs *Insert any DBZ character here*

#72 Posted by russellmania77 (14634 posts) - - Show Bio

@xxgin: the movie constantine?

#73 Posted by russellmania77 (14634 posts) - - Show Bio

#74 Posted by SMXLR8 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@sondeatheater: well your rant is wrong since you said easily which can't happen. Superman vs goku is done with and supes won so let it go

#75 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23406 posts) - - Show Bio

No one wants to debate Hal against Goku with me )=

#76 Edited by Theorder14 (1368 posts) - - Show Bio

@smxlr8: lol, when was it a fact that Superman won >.>?

depends on which versions of supes in my opinion

#77 Posted by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: I've been debating Hal VS Goku with you, and how are we meant to do the battle? It will get locked by the mods quite fast, and espeically since DBZ threads are now (unfairly) banned.

#78 Posted by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@smxlr8: If you think that just because Death Battle had Superman win, it settles the argument? They had that match completely biased in Superman's favour, (E.g: Goku not even being able to harm him much until he went SSJ4), and they were basing calculations off of everything , and it was like they didn't even bother to study Goku enough to do the battle. Goku never used the Power-Pole while in Super Saiyan for a start, and he should have been able to pound Superman while in SSJ3 at least for a good while.

It will never, ever be settled officially, think about it 2 different characters, from 2 different universes. This battle wouldn't work in anyway even if the makers of both universes decided to do the battle. DC wouldn't have Superman lose to Goku, and DBZ wouldn't have Goku lose to Superman.

In reality, the battle could go either way but i'll always be supporting Goku, (but not biased like Screw Attack), it is also very unfair to use different versions of Superman like Prime or Pre-Crisis against Goku because there's only one version of Goku.

Face it though, someone who sides with Goku will never be convinced that Superman would beat him, and someone who sides with Superman will never be convinced that Goku would beat him. There's no point in saying that Superman or Goku won, because there will never be a clear winner.

#79 Posted by pooty (10863 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: @pope052: You absolutely CAN do Comics vs DBZ. It has to be in a CAV format which is why I started this thread. Read the DBZ ban again. It's the 1st edit . So make a CAV thread and it won't get locked. From the rule book:

Edit: Challenge a Viner threads or the tourney matches CAN include a DBZ character. The reason for that is those types of threads are contained between two users and are generally handled much better and in a much more respectable way between said users. It's only the open threads that are generally the problem.

So make it happen!

#80 Edited by HyperViper97 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

Ill defend thanos, new 52 Martian manhunter, zoom, doctor doom, or black Adam. Just the start of a list honestly, love the show but DBZ guys can't hang with a majority of DC

#81 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23406 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: As pooty has already pointed out we can do challenge a Viner with Dragon Ball Z characters and it will not be locked.They main reason while I will not go into a detailed debate here is because of would completely derail the thread,that is why i want to do challenge a viner between me and you.

#82 Edited by alcoholbob (1191 posts) - - Show Bio

Super Saiyan God vs Thor lets go

#83 Edited by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio
#84 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23406 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: It should be Pre New 52 Hal Jordan (I know post 52 Hal Jordan has the same history but his power level is not the same imo) vs SSJ3 Goku (you can use SSJ4 if you like your choice)

Rules:

  • The battle can take place on a lifeless planet.
  • No morals and they both are bloodlusted.
  • They start off 100 feet away.
  • no prep.
  • Standard equipment.

Is this okay with you?

#85 Posted by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Seems good enough, so now are we just going to make the thread, Hal Jordan VS SSJ3 Goku?

#86 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23406 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Yeah, do you want me to do it? If you want to make it remember the title should probably be"CAV SSJ3 (Pop052) vs Pre New 52 Hal Jordan (dccomicsrule2011)"

#87 Posted by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio
#88 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23406 posts) - - Show Bio
#89 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

I will Do broly vs any comic book character (not overkill)

#90 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll do Thor vs any dbz character.

#91 Posted by Racob7 (5421 posts) - - Show Bio
#92 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio
#93 Posted by Bossmonster (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

@racob7:Didn't you see the troll face??

However, if you really want to do it. I'll debate in favor of Prime against anyone.

#94 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: auughh he's my favorite XD

but yeah, sure thing. When works for you?

#95 Edited by Racob7 (5421 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster: Prime huh? I'll use Mystic Gohan. Let's do it.

#97 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@fernando072295reborn: Whenever you want i am not running away start when your ready and tell me when your doing it or starting a thread about it

#98 Edited by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave:

Um...ok lol? I would hope you wouldn't run...

But anyway, I don't have a whole lot of time but I can start it today anyway. I'll link you the thread.

#99 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio
#100 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-thor-god-of-thunder-vs-the-lssj-broly-1456299/

there you go :) start it off dude